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coops 3214

whos growing oddball palms in Melbourne

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coops 3214

How do the ceroxylons go with size ive got a small quindense in the ground in shade going well, but ive got a good size amazonican  and a small parvifrons which i would like to put in half day sun,

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john_tas
On 4 October 2015 at 7:44:51 PM, gob1 said:

There are a number of experienced growers here on Palmtalk that have (or have had) some of the more exotic species growing in Melbourne. Hopefully some of them might chime in on this thread with their personal experiences.

Melbourne's climate is real tough on most species of palms - a long cool winter (effectively 5 months this year) that will kill off a lot of palms, and then the potential for 40 degree plus days over summer that can fry those palms that coped with the winter. Also, Melbourne has a large geographic spread with different "microclimates" in many areas. EG the beach side suburbs offer the more moderate microclimates - toward the Dandenongs is going to be more challenging.

I have had a crack at growing some of the more tropical species with mixed results. Also I protect some of my palms during winter, some are in a plastic glasshouse, and some are in my garage with some heating.

The following are what I have tried over the past couple of years:-

Currently growing in my back yard:

Chamadorea - adscendens, metallica, oblongata, ernesti-augusti, tenalla

Burretiokentia hapala

Pritchardia beccariana

Rhapis excelsa and multifida

Reinhardtia simplex

Cryosophila warscewiczii

Lytocaryum weddellianum

Licuala fordiana

Beccariophoenix alfredii

Dypsis baronii and albofarinosa

Chambreyonia macrocarpa varieties

The following are in my pot ranch:-

Kerriodoxa elegans

Pritchardia hillebrandii

Hedyscepe

Cyphophoenix elegans

Licuala elegans, ramsayi

Pinanga javana, maculata, coronata

Beccariophoenix alfredii

Bentinckia condapanna

Johannesteijsmannia altifrons

Calyptrocalyx elegans, plus another species

Brahea decumbens

Clinostigma savoryanum

Euterpe edulis

Dypsis lastelliana and a few others

Lemur

Aiphanes aculeata

Kentiopsis species

Caryota ophiopellis

And the following were epic fails this winter:-

Carpoxylon macrospermum

Hyophorbe lagenicaulis

 

The following are some pics - and apologies I was struggling with the editing functions of the new site

 

  

Having a good go in Melbourne by the looks of it :)

are there any good nurseries in the Melbourne area?

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john_tas
1 hour ago, MOSES JONES said:

This maybe useful for Melbourne Palm growers.

regards Moses

PALM HARDINESS.xlsx

I find this link very useful also Moses, I think this approach to categorising hardiness is the way to go rather thank the USA hardiness zone style. 

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/MEDITERRANEAN_SURVIVABILITY_INDEX

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MOSES JONES

Thanks once again John_Tas!

much appreciated and very useful!

regards Moses

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john_tas
4 hours ago, MOSES JONES said:

Thanks once again John_Tas!

much appreciated and very useful!

regards Moses

Any good nurseries in Melbourne, I'm not talking about the children kind

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chris.oz

Probably the most successful palms in my Beaumaris ( Melbourne Bayside) garden were Howeas.    These are imo the best looking palm you can grow well in Melbourne.   They do look better with some protection,  as they turn somewhat of a khaki color when exposed to full sun.   However they dont flower until they see full sun.   The trouble is,  they need supplementary watering during drought periods,  so enthusiastic gardeners can grow magnificent specimens,  but often when a property changes hands the new owners just do not know how to care for them.  I used to dig them out of gardens that were being demolished.  Some had up to 2 metres of trunk.  They transplant easily ,  but may take some years to overcome transplant shock.

 Other palms that grow well include Archontophoenix,   in damp spots. Butia,   Rhopalostylis ,  Chambeyronia, most species of Rhapis except excelsa,  humilis being the best one for melbourne and is a brilliant screening plant. Ravanea glauca is very good,  but the prize palm in my collection was Brahea armata ,  which is perfect  for the really hot summer conditions ,  but grows very fast when soil moisture is plentiful.   Many types of Chamaedorea grow in Melbourne ,  except they need warmth and filtered sun .  Chamaedorea metallica,  ernesti augustii woodsoniana,  radicalis, tepijilote, they all grow well.   All the palms had some degree of dicot cover.  This meant they were a little slow,  but suffered much less burn during summer sun and winter frost.

The new owners of my garden chopped half the palms out and put down coloured wood chips in their  place.  The neighbours said the new owners ruined the garden.  Then he sold the house after 12 months because he lost his job. 

If you create a tropical jungle,  just be aware  that many people believe this is "overplanting" ,  what they didnt realise before they chopped out the palms was the house had many large windows and no curtains,  but the vegetation around the fence was the shelter and the curtain.

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chris.oz
On 9/4/2016, 7:02:11, MOSES JONES said:

This maybe useful for Melbourne Palm growers.

regards Moses

PALM HARDINESS.xlsx

Tim Brissy touched on the problem.   Most of the survivability data originated in  Florida,  where it varies from tropical to subtropical, and every now and then they get a transient "freeze",  but it warms up during the day to above 20C.   Its Melbournes  sustained dull drizzly conditions from May to September that just stop palms from growing other than about 6 months of the year.   If the palms are not sheltered enough from strong dry winds  they will lose too many leaves each year to provide the growth engine they need to prosper.    The trick is to balance the shelter, warmth and select the best microclimate in your garden for the most tropical species.

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MOSES JONES
On 4 September 2016 8:50:03 pm, john_tas said:

Having a good go in Melbourne by the looks of it :)

are there any good nurseries in the Melbourne area?

AJ FLYNN'S BRAYBROOK...very cheap.... great range...talk with Paul or Duncan...

THE PALM PLACE NURSERY Speak with Fabian 

ROMANIA IN LARA....Speak with Lyle

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MOSES JONES
11 hours ago, chris.oz said:

Tim Brissy touched on the problem.   Most of the survivability data originated in  Florida,  where it varies from tropical to subtropical, and every now and then they get a transient "freeze",  but it warms up during the day to above 20C.   Its Melbournes  sustained dull drizzly conditions from May to September that just stop palms from growing other than about 6 months of the year.   If the palms are not sheltered enough from strong dry winds  they will lose too many leaves each year to provide the growth engine they need to prosper.    The trick is to balance the shelter, warmth and select the best microclimate in your garden for the most tropical species.

Very true I couldn't agree more...

I would add however that you need to protect against all winds...cold and hot....

my garden is cool in summer and warmer than anywhere else in winter

because I planted out the whole perimeter with clumping Bamboo which has done the trick..

providing protection from those 2 winds.

 

 

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Sir Oxylon

Correcting a typo: the nursery in Lara is Roraima not Romania. They may also have Nikau John, but I didn't see them when I was there last. Pal Place is your best bet for a variety of palm species at the moment.

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coops 3214

Lyle at roraima nursery has rhopies there over by his big baronii that hes selling its just hard finding the stuff there he has so much of it lol

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coops 3214

Thats my biggest rhopie

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john_tas
On 7 September 2016 at 12:20:02 PM, coops 3214 said:

Thats my biggest rhopie

Nice specimen! How old? Did you grow from seeds? What variety? 

Thanks

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john_tas
On 7 September 2016 at 11:54:39 AM, Sir Oxylon said:

Correcting a typo: the nursery in Lara is Roraima not Romania. They may also have Nikau John, but I didn't see them when I was there last. Pal Place is your best bet for a variety of palm species at the moment.

I'll be sure to try and hunt one down it would be rude not to :)

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john_tas
On 7 September 2016 at 11:22:13 AM, MOSES JONES said:

Very true I couldn't agree more...

I would add however that you need to protect against all winds...cold and hot....

my garden is cool in summer and warmer than anywhere else in winter

because I planted out the whole perimeter with clumping Bamboo which has done the trick..

providing protection from those 2 winds.

 

 

Good tip, what species of bamboo did you use? I have seeds of  phyllostachys edulis which I'm having trouble germinating, just as well and this is a running monster in the right conditions 

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MOSES JONES
19 hours ago, john_tas said:

Good tip, what species of bamboo did you use? I have seeds of  phyllostachys edulis which I'm having trouble germinating, just as well and this is a running monster in the right conditions 

Ok it's simple.....as I know quite a bit about Bamboo...not so much about palms!

If you live in Melbourne I will give you bamboo....

take those seeds you've got and throw them in the bin...or plant them in a pot...not in the ground!

For Melbourne the 2 best bamboos for windbreaks are Oldhamii and Graccilis...both are clumping (not running Bamboo)

they grow to about 10 meters and are very upright (so great along a fence line)

I have Oldhami Bamboo for free right now.....you have to dig it out...that's the catch....

regards Moses

 

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MOSES JONES
On 7 September 2016 11:54:39 am, Sir Oxylon said:

Correcting a typo: the nursery in Lara is Roraima not Romania. They may also have Nikau John, but I didn't see them when I was there last. Pal Place is your best bet for a variety of palm species at the moment.

Oh ha ha ha! Yes a nursery not the country!

 

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MOSES JONES
1 minute ago, MOSES JONES said:

Oh ha ha ha! Yes a nursery not the country!

 

Oh yes John, I also just bought a pallet down from Nossa...Phillp Redhead...

great plants, great service....

 

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Bennz
13 minutes ago, MOSES JONES said:

Ok it's simple.....as I know quite a bit about Bamboo...not so much about palms!

If you live in Melbourne I will give you bamboo....

take those seeds you've got and throw them in the bin...or plant them in a pot...not in the ground!

For Melbourne the 2 best bamboos for windbreaks are Oldhamii and Graccilis...both are clumping (not running Bamboo)

they grow to about 10 meters and are very upright (so great along a fence line)

I have Oldhami Bamboo for free right now.....you have to dig it out...that's the catch....

regards Moses

 

Hey Moses, do you find the bambusa spp. dry out the soil too much? It's the main reason they went out of favour in NZ for shelterbelts. I planted oldhamii for a while, but nothing much seems to grow around it unless you really water and feed everything intensely.

 

Interesting talking to a citrus grower once, he had very obvious crop limitations from his fruit trees near his pruned oldhamii hedge. On another boundary he had pruned evergreen alnus spp (probably jorullensis? maybe nitida or cremastogyne?). The N-fixation from these trees was so impressive that the first couple rows in from the hedge was the highest producing part of the orchard. Although these trees needed hard pruning annually he said the maintainance was less than with the oldhamii hedge.

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J. australis
On 6 September 2016 at 11:44:33 PM, chris.oz said:

Tim Brissy touched on the problem.   Most of the survivability data originated in  Florida,  where it varies from tropical to subtropical, and every now and then they get a transient "freeze",  but it warms up during the day to above 20C.   Its Melbournes  sustained dull drizzly conditions from May to September that just stop palms from growing other than about 6 months of the year.   If the palms are not sheltered enough from strong dry winds  they will lose too many leaves each year to provide the growth engine they need to prosper.    The trick is to balance the shelter, warmth and select the best microclimate in your garden for the most tropical species.

Chris! Chris! How are you my venerable palm pal? (Mark and Moses, Chris contributed numerous palms to my garden in the early years. Gave me lots of great advice and even laughed at my jokes)

Where are you these days, Mr King? Love to catch up with you.

PS do you remember giving me a seedling P cocoides about 10 years ago for the Geelong Botanic Gardens? Look at your little baby now!

image.jpeg

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MOSES JONES
1 minute ago, Bennz said:

Hey Moses, do you find the bambusa spp. dry out the soil too much? It's the main reason they went out of favour in NZ for shelterbelts. I planted oldhamii for a while, but nothing much seems to grow around it unless you really water and feed everything intensely.

 

Interesting talking to a citrus grower once, he had very obvious crop limitations from his fruit trees near his pruned oldhamii hedge. On another boundary he had pruned evergreen alnus spp (probably jorullensis? maybe nitida or cremastogyne?). The N-fixation from these trees was so impressive that the first couple rows in from the hedge was the highest producing part of the orchard. Although these trees needed hard pruning annually he said the maintainance was less than with the oldhamii hedge.

Yes that is true...they dry out everything...you can forget about growing anything sales next to it unless ....

so what I do is put down a root barrier 50 to 60cm on all sides...made of treated pine

I can grow Oldhami in a bed 80 cm by 3 metres does well....

but Gracilis is the wonder

I have it growing along a fence line in a raised garden bed made of treated pine...

30 cm wide 6 metres long 40cm high

it is as happy as bro!

And it just so happens that I hit upon this idea while visiting my family in the Bay of Islands...

I kept looking at the orchards in Keri Keri as we were driving past

and thinking.... now that could work in my garden......

cos those Melbourne winds were killing everything...

10 years later it's a total different situation....

Warmer in winter and cooler in summer....

 

 

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MOSES JONES
35 minutes ago, J. australis said:

Chris! Chris! How are you my venerable palm pal? (Mark and Moses, Chris contributed numerous palms to my garden in the early years. Gave me lots of great advice and even laughed at my jokes)

Where are you these days, Mr King? Love to catch up with you.

PS do you remember giving me a seedling P cocoides about 10 years ago for the Geelong Botanic Gardens? Look at your little baby now!

image.jpeg

Nice Palm there Ms Australis!

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MOSES JONES

I got a Cuban Royal Palm Roystonea violacea as apparently this one goes purple as it get’s older….

it is the most cold tolerant It's 4 metres tall

I built an 8 foot high 3 meters long concrete“Hot Wall” on the south side where this palm is to be planted

It is in a very sheltered spot….away from cold and hot winds....

here it is in Spring in it's winter coat....

6 metres of hessian and a queen size bedspread wrapped around it...

I will keep you all posted.......

IMG_1152.JPG

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MOSES JONES
1 hour ago, MOSES JONES said:

 

 

 

 

Edited by MOSES JONES

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chris.oz
On 9/9/2016, 5:06:08, J. australis said:

Chris! Chris! How are you my venerable palm pal? (Mark and Moses, Chris contributed numerous palms to my garden in the early years. Gave me lots of great advice and even laughed at my jokes)

Where are you these days, Mr King? Love to catch up with you.

PS do you remember giving me a seedling P cocoides about 10 years ago for the Geelong Botanic Gardens? Look at your little baby now!

image.jpeg

Ah Jo. Alas we sold our house  and all the palms in it.   But what palm freak can live without a container ranch !   

I am at the point of deciding whether to break loose and retire  to Cairns or stay in good old Melbourne,  so predictable in its unpredictability.

I wonder how is your special Brahea  ssp Tycho.    Has he settled down.  He must be 18 years old now ?

That is so good to see the Geelong Parajub.   OMG those parajubs are such difficult seeds.    You may be interested to know that various of the Braheas I grew have inspired people to appreciate palms .  Brahea edulis looks so handsome as a young palm,  I have several growing at my factory and some growing in neighbours yards.

We must catch up and talk old times,  and if you are still in possession of your great palm garden ,  I would love to come and see how it has grown and catch up on news about local palm identities in the process.

 

Edited by chris.oz

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coops 3214
On Thu Sep 08 2016 20:38:31 GMT+1000, john_tas said:

Nice specimen! How old? Did you grow from seeds? What variety? 

Thanks

Ive had that 1 for about 2 yrs i brought a collection or what was left from a  fella from Melbourne relocating to cairns, its powering along now its grown heaps since that picture i believe its a baurii variety i have quite a few rhopies i dont think u can beat them down here and there not that slow, 

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peachy

There is a big Bismarckia in the botanic gardens and also some huge golden canes in Ripponlea. 

Miccles always said that Alex's grew better than Bangalows for him down there. Check out Jim in los altos, his garden is in a slightly cooler climate than Melbourne's and it is amazing what he can grow there.

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coops 3214
1 hour ago, peachy said:

There is a big Bismarckia in the botanic gardens and also some huge golden canes in Ripponlea. 

Miccles always said that Alex's grew better than Bangalows for him down there. Check out Jim in los altos, his garden is in a slightly cooler climate than Melbourne's and it is amazing what he can grow there.

Yeah jims garden is awsome its amazing what will grow in the right microclimates, i cant keep a oraniopsis alive to save myself they dont like my place!!!

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peachy

I used to work in North Shore, just remembered the postcode......should be milder there than the inland parts, but of course it can still get bloody cold. I remember having to hose the ice off the car some mornings when I lived in Torquay, only a few metres from the beach. BTW I have never been able to find an oraniopsis, let alone kill one.

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tim_brissy_13

A couple of my Melbourne oddballs:

Ceroxylon parvum - in full sun and stays perfectly dark green all year round. Accelerating now that it is in the ground.

 

20170102_081340_resized.jpg

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Ben in Norcal
10 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

A couple of my Melbourne oddballs:

Ceroxylon parvum - in full sun and stays perfectly dark green all year round. Accelerating now that it is in the ground.

 

20170102_081340_resized.jpg

Tim, what kind of summer temps do you see down there?

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tim_brissy_13

Hyophorbe indica - didn't enjoy the winter but growing back strongly now.

20170102_080100_resized.jpg

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tim_brissy_13
7 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Tim, what kind of summer temps do you see down there?

Ben - summer is quite inconsistent. We've gone over a week with a heatwave with nighttime temps staying above 20C (68F) and days between 27-38C (81-100F). Today is only predicted to get to 19C (66F) maximum.  It can get over 40C (105F) a few times each summer and those days are always really dry with low humidity. 

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tim_brissy_13

Cyphophoenix elegans - slowly returning to its former glory after a tough couple of years during to a transplant.

20170102_082114_resized.jpg

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Ben in Norcal
1 minute ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Ben - summer is quite inconsistent. We've gone over a week with a heatwave with nighttime temps staying above 20C (68F) and days between 27-38C (81-100F). Today is only predicted to get to 19C (66F) maximum.  It can get over 40C (105F) a few times each summer and those days are always really dry with low humidity. 

Interesting, surprised the Ceroxylon can take that much heat in full sun.  Our summer weather is probably more consistent - 85 degrees F plus - but always cooling down to the low 60s overnight.  I have quite a few Ceroxylon in pots I am growing out for when I have more canopy/shade.

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tim_brissy_13

Dypsis cabadae x madagascariensis - coming back from the dead after being dug up from the old garden. It actually grew throughout winter in the pot and has now taken off with the warmer weather (look closely and you can see the spear marked - this was on Xmas eve so 8 days growth).

20170102_081702_resized.jpg

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tim_brissy_13
5 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Interesting, surprised the Ceroxylon can take that much heat in full sun.  Our summer weather is probably more consistent - 85 degrees F plus - but always cooling down to the low 60s overnight.  I have quite a few Ceroxylon in pots I am growing out for when I have more canopy/shade.

I'm surprised too - there's a Ceroxylon ventricosum only a metre from the C parvum that got fried last summer so I've given it protection this summer.

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tim_brissy_13

Syagrus sancona - proving to be a strong grower now that it is in the ground.

20170102_081633_resized.jpg

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