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Mohsen

My germination projects

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Pal Meir
8 hours ago, Mohsen said:

Could it be possible, one be L.W and the other L.S as it might be hybrid of both?

That would be awesome! :D Anyway it will be interesting how they will grow … :)

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Bananengeknl

Mendanhensis X Glaucensens :wub:

 

20160110_005051_zpsuf8b9zgb.jpg

20160110_005730_zpsbcpewmh8.jpg

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Mohsen
On 12/27/2015, 3:57:28, Mohsen said:

Pal, how about these chamaedorea arenbergiana seeds, do you have any experiences with them? they should be the same as other chamaedorea ? adjacent germinators?

IMG_4183.JPG

update : 12/1/2016

IMG_4313.JPG

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Mohsen
On 1/1/2016, 12:16:19, Mohsen said:

after 3 month, one of  Rhopaloblaste ceramica wants to wake up from sleep :) 

Pal, first of all happy new year :) second, have you ever germinated this type? is it adjacent type?

IMG_4235.JPG

update : 12/1/2016

IMG_4310.JPG

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Pal Meir

And here the version for your palm family album: :D

5693d23b32c26_RhopaloblasteIMG_4310.thum

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Mohsen

Thanks to Steve, I got few Bizzi Seeds...I cleaned them after soaked them in water...I tried to find the longest pots ...I couldn't find longer than 11" but I made a 14" out of pipe, water container......I hope they are long enough...

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Mohsen
On 12/14/2015, 4:37:15, Mohsen said:

got 25 fresh Lytocaryum weddellianum seeds from Palmland nursery today :

 

IMG_4093.JPG

IMG_4084.JPG

almost all been germinated after 4 weeks :)  now, who wants to prepare proper media for them :( 

IMG_4330.JPG

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Mohsen
On 12/27/2015, 4:34:33, Mohsen said:

update :

Is this second Plumule? it took 12 days for the 2nd plumule ( from the 1st one) :) 

FullSizeRender(11).jpg

Paul, it is almost 20 days now, is it not very slow now ?almost not growing since then ?

FullSizeRender(13).jpg

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Pal Meir
6 hours ago, Mohsen said:

Paul, it is almost 20 days now, is it not very slow now ?almost not growing since then ?

Hmmm, that’s not good … :( Here 2 photos showing the growth of the 2nd plumule within one week:

56981b477ddd8_N14012014-04-0108.thumb.jp

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Kai

A picture just for documental purposes.

Lytocaryum weddellianum:

20160111_195259.thumb.jpg.f0d02212caecdc

Cheers!

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Pal Meir
35 minutes ago, Kai said:

A picture just for documental purposes.

Lytocaryum weddellianum:

Cheers!

Your photo with explanations for the Palm Book:

5698255e76bbb_Lytowedd2016-01-11.thumb.j

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Mohsen
On 12/27/2015, 4:34:33, Mohsen said:

 

Paul, could it be the media? maybe that very fine sand is not suitable? what should I do? :(

 

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Pal Meir
5 hours ago, Mohsen said:

Pal, could it be the media? maybe that very fine sand is not suitable? what should I do? :(

At this stage it is not so much a problem of the medium, but did you water it regularly? Maybe the seed was not yet ripe (immature endosperm?).

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Mohsen
22 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

At this stage it is not so much a problem of the medium, but did you water it regularly? Maybe the seed was not yet ripe (immature endosperm?).

@Pal Meir, I am watering it every other day ...also I have the first sign of Plumule in my first L.Hybrid...if it will grow better so it might be immature endosperm reason of my L.S..

That was the only seed germinated and if you remember the seeds were completely green...if it is the case , I am not happy at all...that was the only L.S seed I have :(

FullSizeRender(14).jpg

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Mohsen

just received 7 seeds of Brahea armata from eBay ...

all are sinkers so helpfully they are viable...

anyone has any experience germinating them? Pal, have you tried them before? are they remote germinators?

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Phoenikakias

You should have patience with the germination of Brahea seeds. Either they germinate within a couple of months OR they need a year or more to do so. There is also the possibility of delidding but you'd better stay away. Embryo becomes in latter way veeeeeeeeeeeery susceptible to rot, unless you are ready to apply fungicides.

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nitsua0895

I'm about to germinate some Coccothrinax crinita brevicrinus seeds. Should these be planted in deep pots? And does anyone have experience with how long it can take for them to sprout? 

I've heard the palm grows very slowly so I'm guessing germination will take a long time also.

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Hamal

@Mohsen: I have germinated a few Brahea armata by delidding them (after I lost patience). But you can make that decision later. Brahea seeds stay viable for a very long time.

@nitsua0895: Coccothrinax has sprouted relatively quickly for me, about 4-6 weeks. They are remote germinators, but do not need very deep pots. Yes, they are pretty slow, at least initially, and very easy to kill.

Edited by Hamal
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Mohsen
On 1/1/2016, 3:56:52, Mohsen said:

after 6 weeks, today I noticed the green shoot :) is this eophyll?

IMG_4240.JPG

Pal, I think now we can say this is eophyll ?

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Pal Meir
30 minutes ago, Mohsen said:

Pal, I think now we can say this is eophyll ?

Yes, definitively.

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Mohsen
On 1/14/2016, 2:04:30, Pal Meir said:

Hmmm, that’s not good … :( Here 2 photos showing the growth of the 2nd plumule within one week:

 

Pal, it is gone :( , the seed removed from the radicle...I replaced it with one of my L.W ...I hope that's not my media ?

Finally I am close to buy 100L of Seramis from Melbourne . Do you remember what was the package volume , these are in 2.5 Litre...it seems Seramis has different types of soils. what was exactly your type ( labeled on the bag) ?

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Pal Meir
2 hours ago, Mohsen said:

Pal, it is gone :( , the seed removed from the radicle...I replaced it with one of my L.W ...I hope that's not my media ?

Finally I am close to buy 100L of Seramis from Melbourne . Do you remember what was the package volume , these are in 2.5 Litre...it seems Seramis has different types of soils. what was exactly your type ( labeled on the bag) ?

I think it was because the seed wasn’t ripe yet … :huh:

As for Seramis I could only find this German website: http://seramis.com/seramis-produktwelt/seramis-pflanz-granulat-fuer-zimmerpflanzen.html

I have a 7.5 litre bag "Ton-Granulat": pH CaCl2 = 5.6; KCl < 0.5 g/l; N (CaCl2) 7 mg/l; P2O5 (CAL) 13 mg/l; K2O (CAL) 120 mg/l; 100% clay. 30 litre may cost 22-26 EUR.

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knell

@Pal Meir i found some expanded clay pebbles from Germany called Hydroton... are you familiar with this and is it equivalent to Seramis?

Here is a photo of a purple Jubaea seedling for your time:

image.thumb.jpeg.629cdbf103335ff890ba8d5

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Pal Meir
1 hour ago, knell said:

@Pal Meir i found some expanded clay pebbles from Germany called Hydroton... are you familiar with this and is it equivalent to Seramis?

Here is a photo of a purple Jubaea seedling for your time:

LECA is totally different from Seramis: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bl%C3%A4hton — Here your seedling for the Palm Family Album:

569fc323edbf3_JubaeaSeedling.thumb.jpg.7

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Phoenikakias

If one plans to keep year round the pots outdoors, then he should be very careful with the use of baked clay in the pot medium. This material was designed for hydroponics in controled conditions, that is with an ABSOLUTE control over amount and frequency of watering and a short range of temperature fluctuation, all in all for INDOOR cultivation. Outdoors in temperate region, no body  can make any kind of agreement with nature, as to how frequently and long is it going to rain and at what temperature...

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Pal Meir

@knell Here a photo of LECA (hard) and Seramis (soft):

569fca9551ca7_LECAvsSeramisP1010214.thum

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knell

Thank you both! Very enlightening, I wish I had asked before I bought some but Im sure i can figure out a use.

My hunt for USA seramis continues... I found "Growstones" but they dont seem completely similar either.

Apologies to Mohsen for thread hijacking, I should start my own.

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Phoenikakias

Jesus, you live in the mediterranean California, not in central Europe! Get yourself the much easier to find natural pumice (at least I think so...), and, if you are a perfektionist, find a way to crumble down pumice to particles of various sizes.

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Hamal

I have been experimenting with crushed baked clay (the picture from the manufacturer's website shows what it looks like) as well and I do not see any issues with temperature fluctuations or outdoor conditions. It is essentially the same material as the hydroponics stuff, but crushed, so it retains some water (the hydroponics stuff does not retain much water at all), but not enough to get you through a hot summer day. I know that a lot of bonsai enthusiasts use crushed baked clay combined with pine bark or peat moss as the only soil components for their miniature trees. And these trees withstand outdoor conditions in mid Europe and temperature conditions between -10C (10F) and +35C (100F). For them, avoiding soaking wetness on the one side and complete dryness on the other side is even more important, because their pots are very shallow and small. The manufacturer recommends this kind of soil for plantings on roofs.

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Seramis is nothing but crushed baked clay. They have added a few manufacturing steps so it can retain more water than ordinary baked clay, but if you experiment with the ratio of peat moss or pine bark a little bit, you can figure out what works best for you. The bonsai guys recommend about 20% peat moss, which seems to work OK for me here in mid Europe as well. For the very thirsty plants, I have added a little bit of (unbaked) clay as well, but I am not sure that you really need that (especially after my exchange with Konstantinos and because it could clog the drainage). Also, for young plants and seedlings, I add more peat moss, up to 40%. In my opinion, there is no need to use the one brand of Seramis. Of course, if pumice or lava are easier for you to get a hold of, that will work as well. You could even use styrofoam. It is only important that the individual pieces do not disintegrate or crumble and do not contain too much dust (it will reduce the drainage) or are too large. Approximately 4-8 mm (1/8 to 1/4 inch) is the optimum.

Based on the discussion here and Pal's recommendations, I have recently tried Seramis for seedlings as well. It is a little bit easier to work with because of the more regular size of the pieces, and I can probably reduce the peat moss or pine bark ratio, because it retains a lot more water. I will see if it is worth the money, as it is almost four times as expensive as the ordinary crushed baked clay.

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Phoenikakias

What kind of micronutrients does contain the baked clay? Can it be ultimately penetrated by the fine rootlets and is thus suitable for the formation of a bound root mass; can it be used already in very big pots comapared to plant's initial size? We down south, who can grow outdoors more than a couple palms, have already in mind the option of outplanting some day in the future, so we are strongly interested in growing palm seedlings to a substantial outplantable size (so that they have more chances to survive a cool or cold rainy winter) with a bound root mass...

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Mohsen
On 1/20/2016, 7:30:54, Pal Meir said:

I think it was because the seed wasn’t ripe yet … :huh:

As for Seramis I could only find this German website: http://seramis.com/seramis-produktwelt/seramis-pflanz-granulat-fuer-zimmerpflanzen.html

I have a 7.5 litre bag "Ton-Granulat": pH CaCl2 = 5.6; KCl < 0.5 g/l; N (CaCl2) 7 mg/l; P2O5 (CAL) 13 mg/l; K2O (CAL) 120 mg/l; 100% clay. 30 litre may cost 22-26 EUR.

in the invoice it says "Seramis Granule" ...already paid for it and if its the one, then I should have enough fora while :)

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Hamal
4 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

What kind of micronutrients does contain the baked clay? Can it be ultimately penetrated by the fine rootlets and is thus suitable for the formation of a bound root mass; can it be used already in very big pots comapared to plant's initial size?

I am not sure the baked clay contains any considerable amount of micro nutrients to start with. As it retains water, it will also retain some of the fertilizer, but most of it will probably go into the peat moss or leave the pot at the bottom.

I personally started out with this kind of soil in a few pots only last year, so I cannot speak from my own experience as to the building of root mass. Based on what I know the plants do build root mass unlike hydroponics where they only build these "water roots". The only difference to "normal" soil is the excellent drainage. You can water (and fertilize) as much as you want. Anything that is not needed or cannot be consumed by the palm quickly will leave the pot immediately. The downside is you not only can, you have to water a lot (which I do not mind). Especially while I am absent, the instructions for my wife are so easy, even she can follow them.

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Phoenikakias

If I may report  a downside in the use of pumice (and I suppose also the artificial materials) is the abesence of any, even the least, ability  to stand against any attempts to alter the ph. So  lowering or rising of the ph usually happens rapidly caussing to plants an enormous stress, which can be also lethal.

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Hamal

In my opinion, the pH is little overrated, as it is influenced by a number of aspects including the CO2 content of the water. What I try to pay attention to is the TDS (total dissolved solids). If you use the same type of water every time (e.g. rain water), the TDS does not change a whole lot except when you add fertilizer.

So far I have not seen any negative effects. Maybe that is also due to the peat moss, which acts a buffer.

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Mohsen
On 21 January 2016 4:58:23 am, Pal Meir said:

@knell Here a photo of LECA (hard) and Seramis (soft):

569fca9551ca7_LECAvsSeramisP1010214.thum

Pal, this is the labels of the bag I bought , is this the correct one?

image.jpg

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Pal Meir
3 hours ago, Mohsen said:

Pal, this is the labels of the bag I bought , is this the correct one?

Congrats! :greenthumb::D

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Phoenikakias

This is what I am trying to say. It was a genuine or hybrid roebeleni seedling just gotten out of the community pot. Is this possible by the use of baked (either hard or soft) clay?

pumice.JPG.96ca31a85abe990692b73f45903be

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