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Mohsen

My germination projects

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Phoenikakias

Pal, it happens that right now I am trying to germinate L muelleri seeds bought from rpw and actually 4 seeds out of them have already germinated and sprouted. So, with the reservation of of their true identity, I have the impression they are genuine remote germinators, with the cotyledonary petiole extending fairly deep. Besides seeds are small, about the half size of Rhopalostylis seeds or even smaller... 

Edited by Phoenikakias
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Pal Meir
5 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Pal, it happens that right now I am trying to germinate L muelleri seeds bought from rpw and actually 4 seeds out of them have already germinated and sprouted. So, with the reservation of of their true identity, I have the impression they are genuine remote germinators, with the cotyledonary petiole extending fairly deep. Besides seeds are small, about the half size of Rhopalostylis seeds or even smaller... 

When I first saw those seedlings on Mohsen’s photo I actually thought they were Rhopalostylis. Then reading that they had to be L. muelleri I tried to identify a seed petiole (obligatory for remote germination), but I am not sure that the detail marked by me as "seed petiole" is really one or only peat moss.

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Pal Meir
1 hour ago, Hamal said:

Very interesting observation. I add clay mostly to my outdoor palms and have felt that it was kind of a safety net during the hot summer days. Even though it does not get really hot here in Germany, there are periods of a few very warm (30-35 C/85-100 F) sunny days in a row without rain. I do not need to water my potted plants that contain the clay every day. In fact, they get along just fine with watering them twice a week. To counteract the clumping effect of clay, I add more than twice the amount of perlite, pumice, lava etc, but you are right, long-term especially perlite comes to the top while clay may in fact make its way to the bottom of the pot.

Anyway, I did not want to hijack the thread. By the way, Seramis is just fired clay that can hold quite a bit of water and nutrients, just like pumice. Since I have not used it before, I will experiment with it and see how it affects the required frequency of watering the outdoor and indoor palms.

I recommend my mix with Seramis® (and not perlite!) for palms which may be problematical when grown up as seedlings. My results e.g. with Lytocaryum insigne show that my mix is better than any other I have seen (also of Palmtalkers who were using perlite), even better than that used in Brazil (with lateritic clay soil). — But also in case of mature palms my mix is very useful e.g. for palms like Licuala grandis, which can show glossy green fronds even when grown up in very dry living rooms, without any spraying of water etc.

568ac413cfb6b_Licualagrandis2003-08-17.t

568ac3b5bfeff_Licualagrandis2008-06-17.t

 

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Phoenikakias

We need urgently a new subforum for pot culture...

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Hamal
34 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

I recommend my mix with Seramis® (and not perlite!) for palms which may be problematical when grown up as seedlings. My results e.g. with Lytocaryum insigne show that my mix is better than any other I have seen (also of Palmtalkers who were using perlite), even better than that used in Brazil (with lateritic clay soil). — But also in case of mature palms my mix is very useful e.g. for palms like Licuala grandis, which can show glossy green fronds even when grown up in very dry living rooms, without any spraying of water etc.

Pal, I apologize if you wrote that somewhere else already, but am I correct that you recommend a mix of 50% fine pine bark and 50% Seramis for most seedlings (other than the easy Trachycarpus, Phoenix etc) and also most of the tropical adult palms that require high humidity or are delicate in any other way as potted palms, e.g. Cyrtostachys renda, Heterospathe sp.? The more delicate, the higher the Seramis part or vice versa? Also, do you use that mix for some of the more cold hardy outdoor palms such as T. fortunei in Germany as well?

And yes, Kostantinos, that is the only thing I miss at PT.

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Pal Meir
14 minutes ago, Hamal said:

Pal, I apologize if you wrote that somewhere else already, but am I correct that you recommend a mix of 50% fine pine bark and 50% Seramis for most seedlings (other than the easy Trachycarpus, Phoenix etc) and also most of the tropical adult palms that require high humidity or are delicate in any other way as potted palms, e.g. Cyrtostachys renda, Heterospathe sp.? The more delicate, the higher the Seramis part or vice versa? Also, do you use that mix for some of the more cold hardy outdoor palms such as T. fortunei in Germany as well?

And yes, Kostantinos, that is the only thing I miss at PT.

I recommend the 50:50 mix only for tropical seedlings/palms which need constant fresh water but don’t like soggy soils or wet feet, ie. mostly palms growing on slopes or steep hillsides – I never recommended it for all tropical palms. I have studied the natural environment of those palms I grow up and then I try to find an adequate soil mix.

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Hamal

Pal, thank you for the clarification.

When I read the descriptions on palmpedia, it looks though that most palms like fast-draining soils, which suggests that your mix of pine bark and Seramis will work for a lot of palms. On the other hand, I just read in a German forum that somebody successfully uses Lechusa Pon (which has very similar characteristics as Seramis, it allows lots of oxygen to get to the roots while holding enough water) for Cyrtostachys renda, which loves swampy areas and wet feet. So your mix may be more universal than you think.

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Mohsen

Pal, Kostantinos: I hope these pictures help identifying these seeds :

It could also be great if Kostantinos could upload pics from his "L muelleri" for comparison  :

from my measurement they have 1cm diameter

IMG_4253.JPG

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Pal Meir
8 hours ago, Mohsen said:

Pal, Kostantinos: I hope these pictures help identifying these seeds :

It could also be great if Kostantinos could upload pics from his "L muelleri" for comparison  :

from my measurement they have 1cm diameter

Hello Mohsen, that is definite an adjacent germination. It can not be any Livistona. It looks like a Rhopalostylis (???) or so.

568baed408efc_SeedlingAdjacentIMG_4253.t

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Pal Meir
27 minutes ago, Bananengeknl said:

@Pal Meir 

Butia Yatay

First Sabal miamensis 

:greenthumb::)Butia has an almost adjacent germination (be careful with the radicle!), and all Sabals have a remote one. Here your pic for the family album:

568c227ec83ae_ButiayataySeedling.thumb.j

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Mohsen
On 1/5/2016, 3:55:16, Pal Meir said:

Hello Mohsen, that is definite an adjacent germination. It can not be any Livistona. It looks like a Rhopalostylis (???) or so.

568baed408efc_SeedlingAdjacentIMG_4253.t

Thanks Pal...I am almost sure that it is not Rhopalostylis...please see all seeds I bought from eBay ...could they  be Chamaedorea microspadix?

2015-09-01 12.32.58.jpg

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2015-08-31 15.36.52.jpg

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Phoenikakias

Mohsen, I see those characteristic seams on the surface of some seeds supposed to be Chamaedorea microspadix, so they could well be this sp!  Now about the Livistona muelleri; you have asked for some pictures. Here they are with seedlinds and the seed still attached. You can see youself how long the cotyledonary petiole on all three plants must be! Last picure shows a germinated seed of L mulleri next to a Rhopalostylis seed (latter on the right side) for comparison of size.

Photo0570.thumb.jpg.c88727477559bd046523Photo0571.thumb.jpg.349fd3b6fa6c8a51c8e7Photo0572.thumb.jpg.043bb4a473b23eb664abPhoto0573.thumb.jpg.1dfadde82604fa3d9065Photo0574.thumb.jpg.b5f77aaeff6883db5be0

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Mohsen

thanks Konstantinos ... I hoped they are not "Chamaedorea microspadix" as I have 3  others... :(  but it seems they are Chamaedorea microspadix...I think I should put all 5 been germinated in one pot as they are very thin ? or maybe 3 in one pot and these 2 in one pot as well?

also thanks for photos regarding L mulleri , they are remote germinators...my seeds also resemble your Rhopalostylis as well?

what type of Rhopalostylis? sapida ?

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Pal Meir
5 hours ago, Mohsen said:

Thanks Pal...I am almost sure that it is not Rhopalostylis...please see all seeds I bought from eBay ...could they  be Chamaedorea microspadix?

2015-09-01 12.32.58.jpg

Yes, they are Chamaedorea microspadix.

 

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Mohsen
19 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

 

thanks Pal...should I plant all my 6 seeds in one pot or 3 in one and 3 in another? are they clustering?

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Pal Meir
12 minutes ago, Mohsen said:

thanks Pal...should I plant all my 6 seeds in one pot or 3 in one and 3 in another? are they clustering?

They are clustering. And very cold hardy. There were a couple planted outdoors in Germany’s most south. — Six together is definitely too much, maybe three, but that’s a matter of taste … :indifferent:

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Mohsen
23 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

They are clustering. And very cold hardy. There were a couple planted outdoors in Germany’s most south. — Six together is definitely too much, maybe three, but that’s a matter of taste … :indifferent:

Pal, as a general question, when we plant more than one seedling in one pot, how close we should place them together?

it seems all my 3 Chamaedoreas ( Metallica ,  Cataractarum and Elegans) been planted very close together , or they might be clustering and there are not coming from different seeds?

IMG_4266.JPG

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IMG_4259.JPG

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Pal Meir
33 minutes ago, Mohsen said:

Pal, as a general question, when we plant more than one seedling in one pot, how close we should place them together?

it seems all my 3 Chamaedoreas ( Metallica ,  Cataractarum and Elegans) been planted very close together , or they might be clustering and there are not coming from different seeds?

Ch. elegans and Ch. metallica are solitary, Ch. cataractarum is clustering. — When you plant three solitary palm seedlings together you may plant them quite close, in case of the clustering Ch. cataractarum I would choose a distance of 5 cm or more. But it is also a matter of taste …

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Mohsen

Thanks  Pal, Metallica is solitary but how they knew all the individuals are male ? the nursery I bought this had about 30 of them and there were none female? can we say the female in dioecious palms are rarer than male?

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Pal Meir
55 minutes ago, Mohsen said:

Thanks  Pal, Metallica is solitary but how they knew all the individuals are male ? the nursery I bought this had about 30 of them and there were none female? can we say the female in dioecious palms are rarer than male?

On another photo of your Ch. metallica I saw 2 male and 2 female flower stalks … :mellow:

568d3f7c69aad_ChmetallicaIMG_4096(1).thu

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Mohsen
On 1/6/2016, 8:25:45, Pal Meir said:

On another photo of your Ch. metallica I saw 2 male and 2 female flower stalks … :mellow:

568d3f7c69aad_ChmetallicaIMG_4096(1).thu

That would be perfect if I have both genders :)  I noticed there are two different types of flower but I thought Female wont have flower but will bear fruit( seeds) ?

so what should I do to get fruit out of them? maybe they are not mature yet?

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Pal Meir
16 minutes ago, Mohsen said:

That would be perfect if I have both genders :)  I noticed there are two different types of flower but I thought Female wont have flower but will bear fruit( seeds) ?

so what should I do to get fruit out of them? maybe they are not mature yet?

On your older photo the female flowers were not yet mature. But on your newer photo above the flowers seem to have faded already. — If the male flowers bloom earlier you can save the pollen and spread them afterwards on the female flowers with a small brush.

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Mohsen
19 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

On your older photo the female flowers were not yet mature. But on your newer photo above the flowers seem to have faded already. — If the male flowers bloom earlier you can save the pollen and spread them afterwards on the female flowers with a small brush.

unfortunately all flowers dropped now :( I will be prepared for next time ( I assume next year ?)

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Mohsen

Pal, today I noticed a very small tip of my Licuala ramsayi's eophyll is brown ( not green) ,

could it be as they are not in a very light area ( not very dark either) ? too much water or maybe it is normal ?

IMG_4273.JPG

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IMG_4267.JPG

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Pal Meir
9 hours ago, Mohsen said:

Pal, today I noticed a very small tip of my Licuala ramsayi's eophyll is brown ( not green) ,

could it be as they are not in a very light area ( not very dark either) ? too much water or maybe it is normal ?

IMG_4273.JPG

I think, your L. ramsayi seedling is okay. I am not sure if it is the eophyll or still the plumule (cotyledon).

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Mohsen
19 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

I think, your L. ramsayi seedling is okay. I am not sure if it is the eophyll or still the plumule (cotyledon).

Thanks Pal,

from a close look, it seems to be a very tiny leaf ( eophyll ) :)

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Mohsen
On 1/6/2016, 1:16:10, Pal Meir said:

 

Pal, I think there is high possibility that these seeds are not "Chamaedorea microspadix" , please see below pictures : I have 2 Chamaedorea microspadix in pink pot ( I am sure as I labeled them correctly and also their shape/ colour is the same as hose seeds in the bag when I received them) but the 2 under question seeds have a lighter colour ( in black pot) ...I think the mystery is not solved yet :(

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Mohsen

Just got few fresh D.Baronii, thanks to Steve99  :)

I have cleaned them from the fruits, Anyone been germinating this type before? any special instruction? Pal, have you ever tried them?

IMG_4290.JPG

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Pip

I germinated a few using the baggie method on a heat mat. The all seed germinated within six weeks.

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Pal Meir
On 7.1.2016, 13:04:36, Mohsen said:

Pal, I think there is high possibility that these seeds are not "Chamaedorea microspadix" , please see below pictures : I have 2 Chamaedorea microspadix in pink pot ( I am sure as I labeled them correctly and also their shape/ colour is the same as hose seeds in the bag when I received them) but the 2 under question seeds have a lighter colour ( in black pot) ...I think the mystery is not solved yet :(

I still think they are both Ch. microspadix. The different colour results from (the extent of removal of the) ±mesocarp. — No, I didn't have Dypsis baronii.

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Palms4Steve

Pips method sounds good. Baronii grow well here in Sydney. I think they grow and look better than the golden cane.

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Mohsen
22 hours ago, Pip said:

I germinated a few using the baggie method on a heat mat. The all seed germinated within six weeks.

 

19 hours ago, Palms4Steve said:

Pips method sounds good. Baronii grow well here in Sydney. I think they grow and look better than the golden cane.

Thanks Pip and Steve...will give them a try :) , I already have one small one in ground as well :) 

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Mohsen
20 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

I still think they are both Ch. microspadix. The different colour results from (the extent of removal of the) ±mesocarp. — No, I didn't have Dypsis baronii.

Pal, I will give them the temporary name of "Ch. microspadix" . will keep you updated ...

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Mohsen
On 11/14/2015, 2:46:40, Mohsen said:

Pal, need your advise again...as you know I had a quick visit of New Caledonia last week :

I got 3 types of seeds , as below pictures with their trees :

Need your confirmation of their types ...the large seeds after peeling looks exactly as "Wodyetia bifurcata" ( I thought the trunk was different though) and also the other "Adonidia merrillii" not sure of the small one... any advise how to germinate them ( you gave me some for "Wodyetia bifurcata" before if its type confirmed)

6.jpg

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2.JPG

1.JPG

another success for seeds I got from New Caledonia :) only need the Coconut be germinated to have 100% success :) 

IMG_4289.JPG

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Mohsen

Some seeds I received from a friend :) 

image.jpg

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User00

After read comments on i wonder how many types of palm seed germinating methods there, i like to try some other methods 

i just fill polythene packets with compost mix soil and place a seed inside it or when we got many seeds  fill a hollow container with sand and saw seeds when seeds sprout plant in packets

 

 

20151025_144257.jpg

Edited by User00
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Mohsen

Pal,I just noticed this Lytocaryum Hybrid seed has two radicles? do I have  twins here ?

FullSizeRender(12).jpg

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Pal Meir
13 minutes ago, Mohsen said:

Pal,I just noticed this Lytocaryum Hybrid seed has two radicles? do I have  twins here ?

FullSizeRender(12).jpg

Congrats, you have twins! Good luck! :D Very interesting … :interesting:

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Mohsen
On 1/9/2016, 8:19:55, Pal Meir said:

Congrats, you have twins! Good luck! :D Very interesting … :interesting:

Could it be possible, one be L.W and the other L.S as it might be hybrid of both?

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