OUTRAGE

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

40 minutes ago, Walt said:

John,

When my wife and I moved to Highlands County in 1997, we traversed all through the county looking for a home/property. We were living on a small property temporarily until we could find what we wanted. As such, we looked at 100s of property listings that took us all over. In all my travels I only found two coconut palms. Of the royal palms I found, they were old and at lakeside locations.

There was absolutely no availability of coconut palms, royals, foxtails, bismarckia, kings, etc., at any of the many plant nurseries and big box stores. In fact, there wasn't a Home Depot or Lowes, only a Walmart (not super Walmart). So it was little wonder there wasn't more tropical palm species. Moreover, the majority of residents here were not of affluent means. But that has changed greatly since we moved here. More and more people of financial means are moving here, many from south Florida that are fed up with various conditions down there. They are buying up lakefront properties. They want the tropical palms they had in south Florida and are having mature coconuts, royals, solitaires, etc., brought in from south Florida (mostly the Homestead area growers). Also, there's far more availability now of more tropical palms. The upshot is, is that more and more people are planting more tropical species.

When I first move here I went to every nursery in Highlands County inquiring about royals, bismarckia, and archontophoenix species. These bozo's didn't have a clue. They looked at me like I had just landed from Mars. All they knew about was the everyday garden variety of palms (washingtonia, queens, butia, etc.). I offered to give them money up front to special order many species I wanted, but they weren't interested. Well, over the years I got what I wanted and I don't patronize those nurseries. I don't need them now.

Eventually, we got a new Home Depot. I got the nursery manager to special order me many palms they normally didn't stock because Home Depot has planting zones, and HD in Highlands County can't get some of the palms like Dade County (Miami area) can. We also finally got a Lowes and a Super Walmart.

When I joined the Central Florida Palm and Cycad Society I befriended many members whom sold me palm species the big box stores didn't sell. They were a great resource. I pretty much have all the species of palms I want now, plus a fairly mature palm garden. I would like this year to be the last in terms of me propagating palms from seed, and I want to convert my  20' wide by 36' long (9-1/2' high in middle) combination greenhouse and shade house to a carport or shelter for my mowers, etc. From here on out I just want to maintain what I have, as I must spend lots of time maintaining everything (trimming palms, mowing, getting up tree litter, keeping down the weeds and vines, etc.).

 

Walt,

You made me laugh!  Thanks, I needed a good chuckle.  I sure know what you mean.  I went to one of the two premier nurseries here in Corpus a couple of years ago and asked the employee at the front counter if they had any Date Palms (Phoenix dactyliferas).  She said, "They don't do well here."  My jaw dropped and I said, "What?!!!"  I said that yes they do well here.  I said that there are some nice mature ones in front of the new mall, and some really nice really tall old ones in front of a strip center at one of our major intersections in the central part of town.  I told her I have studied palms since I was a boy, and that I was a member of the Palm Society, and that there are a lot of palms that do well here.  That nursery, by the way didn't carry palms at all, except maybe a token Med. Fan Palm or a token Washingtonia once in a blue moon.  Now they have Pygmy Dates, Queens, Med. Fans, Sabals, and I think I saw a few Foxtails a while back.

Where I live has historically been a fairly rural poor part of town near the water, with the Naval Base at the north end of the peninsula, but over the last 5 to 10 years, Flour Bluff has been growing by leaps and bounds with new subdivisions going up left and right, so property values have really been rising fast.  The home my wife and I bought is a little 3br., 1 ba. home about 900 sq. ft. that was built in 1955.  It is a brick house on a pier and beam foundation, which I had never seen before.  I thought all brick homes were built on a regular slab foundation, but not this one.  Anyway, our yard is only about 50ft. wide by 138ft. long, so my space for planting is really limited, and I have probably already crammed too many palms and other trees and plants into such a small yard, but there is so much that I want to plant.  If I had about an acre and a half, I would have plenty of space to plant a lot of my plants, but a house with that much property around here would cost about $250,000, unless it's on the water, then it would cost about $350,000.  Island property though, is outrageously high and the homes have very small yards, compared to here in Flour Bluff.  Speaking of the island, the former Chairman of the Palm Society of South Texas is a doctor who lives on the island a few miles from here, and he has 100 species of palms planted in his small yard, including Royal Palms.  We have a small nursery here in Flour Bluff that carries a fairly good variety of palm species and other tropical plants.  They had about a dozen Green Malayan Dwarfs in 15gal. size pots a couple of years ago, and still had one left that was supposedly already sold.  The Malayans though, are really touch and go here, even the Green Malayan, which seems to be slightly more cold hardy than the other Malayans.  The tall varieties like the Mexican Tall and Jamaican Tall though can do fairly well here in normal winters, and since Lethal Yellowing is only a sporadic problem in South Texas, I wish the nursery near where I live would carry them.  If I can sprout enough coconuts that I collect from the beach, maybe I can supply Coconut Palms to them.

Our Lowe's and Home Depot don't carry much variety of palms, just your standard Washingtonias, Queens, a few Foxtails, Sabals, Pindos, and occasionally a few Royals at Lowe's.  I really don't trust the Big Box Stores, though.  In the Bryan/College Station area where I moved here from, they were trying to sell palms and other trees that absolutely would not grow there.  At the Lowe's in Bryan (about halfway between Houston and Waco) they were selling Cuban Royals for $230 several years ago, along with Mango Trees!  Also, about that same time at the Home Depot in College Station (right next door to Bryan), they were selling a crate of 3gal. Sea Grapes about 140 miles inland from Galveston Island, the closest area that you can grow them!  The Bryan/College Station area (within the inner parts of these twin cities) is borderline between 8B and 9A, but just 5 miles outside of town, it is definitely 8B.  When I asked them why they were selling 10A tropical trees that CANNOT be grown north of Galveston Island, they told me we know, but that is what the corporate office has shipped to them!  Also, I have seen Pindo Palms labeled as Coconut Palms at Lowe's before.  They really don't have a clue what they are selling.

John

[Walt]

19 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Walt,

You made me laugh!  Thanks, I needed a good chuckle.  I sure know what you mean.  I went to one of the two premier nurseries here in Corpus a couple of years ago and asked the employee at the front counter if they had any Date Palms (Phoenix dactyliferas).  She said, "They don't do well here."  My jaw dropped and I said, "What?!!!"  I said that yes they do well here.  I said that there are some nice mature ones in front of the new mall, and some really nice really tall old ones in front of a strip center at one of our major intersections in the central part of town.  I told her I have studied palms since I was a boy, and that I was a member of the Palm Society, and that there are a lot of palms that do well here.  That nursery, by the way didn't carry palms at all, except maybe a token Med. Fan Palm or a token Washingtonia once in a blue moon.  Now they have Pygmy Dates, Queens, Med. Fans, Sabals, and I think I saw a few Foxtails a while back.

Where I live has historically been a fairly rural poor part of town near the water, with the Naval Base at the north end of the peninsula, but over the last 5 to 10 years, Flour Bluff has been growing by leaps and bounds with new subdivisions going up left and right, so property values have really been rising fast.  The home my wife and I bought is a little 3br., 1 ba. home about 900 sq. ft. that was built in 1955.  It is a brick house on a pier and beam foundation, which I had never seen before.  I thought all brick homes were built on a regular slab foundation, but not this one.  Anyway, our yard is only about 50ft. wide by 138ft. long, so my space for planting is really limited, and I have probably already crammed too many palms and other trees and plants into such a small yard, but there is so much that I want to plant.  If I had about an acre and a half, I would have plenty of space to plant a lot of my plants, but a house with that much property around here would cost about $250,000, unless it's on the water, then it would cost about $350,000.  Island property though, is outrageously high and the homes have very small yards, compared to here in Flour Bluff.  Speaking of the island, the former Chairman of the Palm Society of South Texas is a doctor who lives on the island a few miles from here, and he has 100 species of palms planted in his small yard, including Royal Palms.  We have a small nursery here in Flour Bluff that carries a fairly good variety of palm species and other tropical plants.  They had about a dozen Green Malayan Dwarfs in 15gal. size pots a couple of years ago, and still had one left that was supposedly already sold.  The Malayans though, are really touch and go here, even the Green Malayan, which seems to be slightly more cold hardy than the other Malayans.  The tall varieties like the Mexican Tall and Jamaican Tall though can do fairly well here in normal winters, and since Lethal Yellowing is only a sporadic problem in South Texas, I wish the nursery near where I live would carry them.  If I can sprout enough coconuts that I collect from the beach, maybe I can supply Coconut Palms to them.

Our Lowe's and Home Depot don't carry much variety of palms, just your standard Washingtonias, Queens, a few Foxtails, Sabals, Pindos, and occasionally a few Royals at Lowe's.  I really don't trust the Big Box Stores, though.  In the Bryan/College Station area where I moved here from, they were trying to sell palms and other trees that absolutely would not grow there.  At the Lowe's in Bryan (about halfway between Houston and Waco) they were selling Cuban Royals for $230 several years ago, along with Mango Trees!  Also, about that same time at the Home Depot in College Station (right next door to Bryan), they were selling a crate of 3gal. Sea Grapes about 140 miles inland from Galveston Island, the closest area that you can grow them!  The Bryan/College Station area (within the inner parts of these twin cities) is borderline between 8B and 9A, but just 5 miles outside of town, it is definitely 8B.  When I asked them why they were selling 10A tropical trees that CANNOT be grown north of Galveston Island, they told me we know, but that is what the corporate office has shipped to them!  Also, I have seen Pindo Palms labeled as Coconut Palms at Lowe's before.  They really don't have a clue what they are selling.

John

John,

The town of Lake Placid (it's only one square mile, maybe a little more now as they've been annexing some adjoining properties lately) comprises mostly residents of below average financial means. Most of the homes are old. I live about two miles N.E. of town and I pay no town taxes since I'm not in the incorporated part of town.

The town (for being in basically the center line of he state (halfway between the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico, deep inland) has a great climate in terms of wintertime low temperatures. This is because it sits atop the lower end of the Lake Wales Ridge and is surrounded by 12 lakes (cold air drains off and warm air from the lakes rise up).

There are many coconut palms in town and some royal palms. There is a huge Hibiscus tiliaceaus tree in town. There is also a big sea grape tree, plus smaller ones. I know a person in town that had the biggest sea grape tree in Highlands County. I got lots of seeds off of it and started my own trees. But my trees get frozen back on occasion. They haven't been frozen back now since December of 2010. But the owns up in town in December of 2010 didn't even get defoliated, yet mine were frozen down to the roots.

Like I said in a previous post, there was never much of an availability to buy coconut palms, royals, etc. There's a big nursery (Ibanez) in town now, but the best they have are some foxtails and some travelers palms. No royals, no coconuts. The entire town could be planted out in coconut palms, that's how good the climate is. Yet, you come down off that hill (to my place) the USDA zone drops almost an entire zone. It makes me so mad sometimes!

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

2 hours ago, Walt said:

John,

The town of Lake Placid (it's only one square mile, maybe a little more now as they've been annexing some adjoining properties lately) comprises mostly residents of below average financial means. Most of the homes are old. I live about two miles N.E. of town and I pay no town taxes since I'm not in the incorporated part of town.

The town (for being in basically the center line of he state (halfway between the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico, deep inland) has a great climate in terms of wintertime low temperatures. This is because it sits atop the lower end of the Lake Wales Ridge and is surrounded by 12 lakes (cold air drains off and warm air from the lakes rise up).

There are many coconut palms in town and some royal palms. There is a huge Hibiscus tiliaceaus tree in town. There is also a big sea grape tree, plus smaller ones. I know a person in town that had the biggest sea grape tree in Highlands County. I got lots of seeds off of it and started my own trees. But my trees get frozen back on occasion. They haven't been frozen back now since December of 2010. But the owns up in town in December of 2010 didn't even get defoliated, yet mine were frozen down to the roots.

Like I said in a previous post, there was never much of an availability to buy coconut palms, royals, etc. There's a big nursery (Ibanez) in town now, but the best they have are some foxtails and some travelers palms. No royals, no coconuts. The entire town could be planted out in coconut palms, that's how good the climate is. Yet, you come down off that hill (to my place) the USDA zone drops almost an entire zone. It makes me so mad sometimes!

 

Hey Walt,

It sounds like Lake Placid is some place I wouldn't mind living if I ever moved back to Florida (I lived in Coral Springs in 2000 and 2001).  It may be about the only place in South or Central Florida I could ever afford to live, except for South Bay, Belle Glade, and Clewiston. By the way, I am sure you have seen the HUGE Jamaican Talls and Florida Royals on the south side of Lake Okeechobee.  I would love to live in a part of Florida where I could grow Coconut Palms and Royals to maturity, but not have the outrageously high cost of living and total rat race that virtually all of South Florida has and much of Central Florida has.  I really miss the Old Florida I remember going to as a boy with my parents.

I love Sea Grapes too, and we have some nice ones over here.  Mine, which I bought from a nursery in the RGV a few years ago is now 6ft. tall and about 8 - 9ft. wide.  It doesn't lose its leaves in the winter, and has been through 10 frosts since I planted it about 2.5 years ago.  I average about 3 frosts each winter here, but the previous two winters were chilly and damp with more frosts than normal.  This winter, I only had one light frost.  The coldest I have been down to at my place over the last 4 winters I have lived here is 33.6F, which happened once this winter, and once a couple of winters ago.  Anyway, getting back to the Sea Grapes, there is a really nice older one on Padre Island a few miles form here in a canal yard that is about 17+ft. tall.  There are some other nice ones on the island, a few more here in Flour Bluff, and a few in town along the bay front.  I wish the local nurseries that carry them would push them more and landscapers plant them more.  Sea Grapes and Coconut Palms go hand in hand, which is why I planted a Jamaican Tall and a Maypan right behind mine.

The Hibiscus that you referred to is it what is commonly called the Hawaiian Hibiscus?  If so, we have some pretty big ones here that are about 12 -15+ft. tall.  There is one on the Texas A&M Corpus Christi campus on the south side of Corpus Christi Bay that must have been over 20ft. tall before the 2011 freeze nipped it back to the lower trunk, but it is growing again.  By the way, my goal is to have the most tropical yard here in variety of tropical palms, trees, and plants over the next 3 years.  There are two Palm Society members here that have a lot more exotic palms than I have, but I have a more other tropical exotic trees than they have like my Royal Poinciana, Hong Kong Orchid Tree, 3 types of Ficus, my Sea Grape, my Mango, Avocado, and 4 types of Citrus, and my Bananas, Giant Bird of Paradise, etc.  As far as overall tropical variety goes, I may already have the most varied variety of tropical palms, other trees, and plants growing in my small yard in Corpus Christi.

I know what you mean about your yard being colder than you would like it to be.  My yard is normally a low end 10A yard.  My normal lowest here each winter would probably average about 31F or 32F over the long term, even though the coldest I have gotten down to here like I said above in the 4 years I have been here is 33.6F.  Yet there are yards just a half a mile to a mile from me that probably average around 34F or 35F for their annual lowest over the long term, especially the canal homes here on the Flour Bluff peninsula just about a mile south of me, and I haven't seen a single Coconut Palm, Royal Palm, or even Foxtail planted in a single one of them!  Just the typical Washingtonia, Queen Palm, Date Palm, Sabal Palm yards that you see all over Corpus Christi.  What a waste of a high end 10A borderline 10B yard!  Not that I don't like the palms I just listed, but they could grow so much more variety too, and don't even try!

John

Edited February 22, 2016 by Mr. Coconut Palm

[Walt]

7 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Hey Walt,

It sounds like Lake Placid is some place I wouldn't mind living if I ever moved back to Florida (I lived in Coral Springs in 2000 and 2001).  It may be about the only place in South or Central Florida I could ever afford to live, except for South Bay, Belle Glade, and Clewiston. By the way, I am sure you have seen the HUGE Jamaican Talls and Florida Royals on the south side of Lake Okeechobee.  I would love to live in a part of Florida where I could grow Coconut Palms and Royals to maturity, but not have the outrageously high cost of living and total rat race that virtually all of South Florida has and much of Central Florida has.  I really miss the Old Florida I remember going to as a boy with my parents.

I love Sea Grapes too, and we have some nice ones over here.  Mine, which I bought from a nursery in the RGV a few years ago is now 6ft. tall and about 8 - 9ft. wide.  It doesn't lose its leaves in the winter, and has been through 10 frosts since I planted it about 2.5 years ago.  I average about 3 frosts each winter here, but the previous two winters were chilly and damp with more frosts than normal.  This winter, I only had one light frost.  The coldest I have been down to at my place over the last 4 winters I have lived here is 33.6F, which happened once this winter, and once a couple of winters ago.  Anyway, getting back to the Sea Grapes, there is a really nice older one on Padre Island a few miles form here in a canal yard that is about 17+ft. tall.  There are some other nice ones on the island, a few more here in Flour Bluff, and a few in town along the bay front.  I wish the local nurseries that carry them would push them more and landscapers plant them more.  Sea Grapes and Coconut Palms go hand in hand, which is why I planted a Jamaican Tall and a Maypan right behind mine.

The Hibiscus that you referred to is it what is commonly called the Hawaiian Hibiscus?  If so, we have some pretty big ones here that are about 12 -15+ft. tall.  There is one on the Texas A&M Corpus Christi campus on the south side of Corpus Christi Bay that must have been over 20ft. tall before the 2011 freeze nipped it back to the lower trunk, but it is growing again.  By the way, my goal is to have the most tropical yard here in variety of tropical palms, trees, and plants over the next 3 years.  There are two Palm Society members here that have a lot more exotic palms than I have, but I have a more other tropical exotic trees than they have like my Royal Poinciana, Hong Kong Orchid Tree, 3 types of Ficus, my Sea Grape, my Mango, Avocado, and 4 types of Citrus, and my Bananas, Giant Bird of Paradise, etc.  As far as overall tropical variety goes, I may already have the most varied variety of tropical palms, other trees, and plants growing in my small yard in Corpus Christi.

I know what you mean about your yard being colder than you would like it to be.  My yard is normally a low end 10A yard.  My normal lowest here each winter would probably average about 31F or 32F over the long term, even though the coldest I have gotten down to here like I said above in the 4 years I have been here is 33.6F.  Yet there are yards just a half a mile to a mile from me that probably average around 34F or 35F for their annual lowest over the long term, especially the canal homes here on the Flour Bluff peninsula just about a mile south of me, and I haven't seen a single Coconut Palm, Royal Palm, or even Foxtail planted in a single one of them!  Just the typical Washingtonia, Queen Palm, Date Palm, Sabal Palm yards that you see all over Corpus Christi.  What a waste of a high end 10A borderline 10B yard!  Not that I don't like the palms I just listed, but they could grow so much more variety too, and don't even try!

John

John,

When my wife and I moved to Highlands County in 1997, my intent wasn't to grow palms and tropical plants. Yes, I liked palms, and my property had lots of native palms (Sabal palmetto, Sabal etonia, and Serenoa repens). I decided I wanted some non native species so I went to a local palm tree farm and got a good deal on some trunked queen palm and a 65 gallon Butia capitata. I was doing some research on palms and would up stumbling upon Palmtalk. I actually remember my first posting. I was asking about the length of palm petioles. I asked because on my property I had a Sabal palmetto that was in deep shade. It was a trunked palm but only 2-3 feet of trunk. The palm had no direct sun as it was blocked by lots of tree limbs. Well, I cut these tree limbs out of the way, and after about six months, all the new fronds that had developed were like half the length of the existing shade grown fronds. Folks on Palmtalk told me how a palms (just like most plants) fronds will stretch in the shade and be shorter (but normal length) in mostly full sun.

After that posting I made more postings, and I started asking questions as to what species of palm would grow in my climate. The rest is history! I got lots of advice and told where I could get them, etc. Then the obsession started, and it also branched out into tropical plants, trees and shrubs, vines, etc.

I don't think Hibiscus tiliaceus is called the Hawaiian hibiscus, but I think it's very close. I think that species is (not sure) H. elatus or possibly H. macryophyllus. In any event, it has large leaves that, when I first noticed the tree, looked similar to a sea grape, but not as thick or ridged. It's a fast growing tree. I have four of them I made from cuttings from a local tree.

I also have a Delonix regia that I special ordered from Home Depot 10 years or more ago. Mine has never flowered and has never really gotten very big. I think because it gets too much shade. I have both Enterolobium contortisiliquum and E. cyclocarpum. The late Bob Riffle (The Tropical Look) gave me the E. contortisliquum, as he liked that species and he knew I did. I have a fairly large E. cyclocarpum my wife started from seed she picked up while riding her bike around the neighborhood 15-16 years ago.

Years ago I bought two Peltophorum dubium (yellow Poinciana) trees from a local nursery. Once they got of size to where they flowered and seeded I started more of them.

I have a Jacaranda mimosifolia tree I bought in 1998. It never flowered until last year, and only one flower at that! I don't understand it. I'm hoping to get more than one flower this year.

At the below Google link you can see a sea grape tree growing in the back of a building. The building is a Publix grocery store. The building is going to be razed any day now, as the entire small shopping center the store is located in is to be leveled, then new stores built. I suspect the tree will be destroyed in the process.

You may have to increase the magnification to better see the tree. This tree is in Sebring, Florida.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.4728494,-81.443026,3a,63.1y,259.03h,99.46t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1saz-fhFSoo0B3LA6DehL85A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Daz-fhFSoo0B3LA6DehL85A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D155.20935%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

14 hours ago, Walt said:

John,

When my wife and I moved to Highlands County in 1997, my intent wasn't to grow palms and tropical plants. Yes, I liked palms, and my property had lots of native palms (Sabal palmetto, Sabal etonia, and Serenoa repens). I decided I wanted some non native species so I went to a local palm tree farm and got a good deal on some trunked queen palm and a 65 gallon Butia capitata. I was doing some research on palms and would up stumbling upon Palmtalk. I actually remember my first posting. I was asking about the length of palm petioles. I asked because on my property I had a Sabal palmetto that was in deep shade. It was a trunked palm but only 2-3 feet of trunk. The palm had no direct sun as it was blocked by lots of tree limbs. Well, I cut these tree limbs out of the way, and after about six months, all the new fronds that had developed were like half the length of the existing shade grown fronds. Folks on Palmtalk told me how a palms (just like most plants) fronds will stretch in the shade and be shorter (but normal length) in mostly full sun.

After that posting I made more postings, and I started asking questions as to what species of palm would grow in my climate. The rest is history! I got lots of advice and told where I could get them, etc. Then the obsession started, and it also branched out into tropical plants, trees and shrubs, vines, etc.

I don't think Hibiscus tiliaceus is called the Hawaiian hibiscus, but I think it's very close. I think that species is (not sure) H. elatus or possibly H. macryophyllus. In any event, it has large leaves that, when I first noticed the tree, looked similar to a sea grape, but not as thick or ridged. It's a fast growing tree. I have four of them I made from cuttings from a local tree.

I also have a Delonix regia that I special ordered from Home Depot 10 years or more ago. Mine has never flowered and has never really gotten very big. I think because it gets too much shade. I have both Enterolobium contortisiliquum and E. cyclocarpum. The late Bob Riffle (The Tropical Look) gave me the E. contortisliquum, as he liked that species and he knew I did. I have a fairly large E. cyclocarpum my wife started from seed she picked up while riding her bike around the neighborhood 15-16 years ago.

Years ago I bought two Peltophorum dubium (yellow Poinciana) trees from a local nursery. Once they got of size to where they flowered and seeded I started more of them.

I have a Jacaranda mimosifolia tree I bought in 1998. It never flowered until last year, and only one flower at that! I don't understand it. I'm hoping to get more than one flower this year.

At the below Google link you can see a sea grape tree growing in the back of a building. The building is a Publix grocery store. The building is going to be razed any day now, as the entire small shopping center the store is located in is to be leveled, then new stores built. I suspect the tree will be destroyed in the process.

You may have to increase the magnification to better see the tree. This tree is in Sebring, Florida.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.4728494,-81.443026,3a,63.1y,259.03h,99.46t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1saz-fhFSoo0B3LA6DehL85A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Daz-fhFSoo0B3LA6DehL85A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D155.20935%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Walt,

That's a really nice looking Sea Grape, and it has so much foliage.  There are a few on South Padre Island that are about that size, but virtually all of ours over here only have about half that much foliage on them.  It is probably because we only get about half the rainfall you guys get.  It is a shame it will probably be destroyed, especially since it came through your 2010 winter so well.  It looks like the photo was taken in June 2011.

I have been into palms since I was about 12 or 13 years old, and I am now 46, but I too came upon Palmtalk by accident about several years ago.  I used to go to Garden Web Forums, and they had a section on Palms and Cycads, but I think that website no longer exists or someone else controls it now, because when I tried to go to it a couple of months ago, I couldn't get anywhere and what was coming up didn't look anything like what I used to go to.  Anyway, I found out real quick that the more knowledgeable people are on Palmtalk rather than on Garden Web Forums palm section.  I felt like I was an expert on Garden Web, and I am far from a palm expert, so if I was actually going to learn a lot more about palms, I needed to spend more time on Palmtalk, where I feel like a novice, except when it comes to Coconut Palms, which I have spent many years studying, but even with them, Keith (Zeeth) here on Palmtalk puts me in the shade with his knowledge of them.  I can thank my mother for my interest in palms and other tropical plants, even though she didn't know about many of the different varieties of palms, she bought me my first palm when I was a boy.  I remember where in Abilene, Texas, where I grew up there were two California Fan Palms that had about 7 or 8ft. of woody trunk growing on the south side of a building.  Those were the only palms I remember in Abilene.  Back then, Abilene was a 7A borderline 7B Climate, since we would get down to the single digits at least once each winter. Now, Abilene is probably an 8A Climate as well as much of North Texas.

I think we are talking about the same hibiscus with the really big leaves, but over here it is known as a Hawaiian Hibiscus and is often mistaken for a Sea Grape from a distance.  They are fairly popular over here, but not nearly as much as the standard forms of hibiscus.  I just drove past a really large one on Padre Island earlier today going to a new home site where 13 Royal Palms have just been planted.  I have been brought in as a palm consultant on the project.  It is a canal home on a large canal, and I was thinking that along the canal in the backyard would be a near perfect microclimate to plant a couple of Mexican Talls and Jamaican Talls, but the plans have already been finalized for the project.  The yard sits about 6 or 7 ft. above the water and would allow for good cold air drainage on a cold clear night.  I have heard that canal yards on the island during mild winters like this one, probably don't drop below 39F or 40F on the coldest morning, but because the Gulf water temp over here is about 56F in the middle of Jan. with the water temps in the Laguna Madre in Jan. about 53F or 54F,  those yards usually don't warm up more than about 63F on the average Jan. day, which would mean they probably have an average soil temp of about 58F in Jan., which means tall varieties of Coconut Palms like Mexican Talls and Jamaican Talls could grow there and reach maturity and fruit, since those areas only average that soil temp for about 4 or 5 weeks before warming up.  Before the 2011 freeze here, there was a mature Coconut Palm about 25 ft. tall with nuts on it on North Padre Island and one about 20ft. tall with nuts on it here in Flour Bluff neat where I live, so I know they can be grown to maturity here, but will never get as big or look as good as the ones in South Florida.

I have a Delonix regia that grew about 4 ft. taller last year and its crown probably tripled in size last year.  It went from about 3.5ft. tall to over 7ft. tall last year and the crown is much wider than it was a year ago, but mine gets full sun.  This winter was so mild over here that it still has a few of its leaves on it, but it normally loses all its leaves by sometime in December.  There is a nice pretty big one about 22 or 23 ft. tall on the south side of a house on Ocean Dr. along the bay front here.  The tree that you got from Robert Riffle is probably a really beautiful tree, but according to his book it says it can't take freezing weather, so how do you keep yours alive in your Zone 9 yard?

I don't recall seeing any Yellow Poincianas here, but I have a friend in La Feria just west of Harlingen in the RGV who has a pretty big one along with a Jacaranda, which seem to be more popular in the Valley than here.  There is one pretty big Jacaranda just down the street from me, but it is the only one I can think of in this area, except for a small one I planted for a landscaping client back in 2014.

John

[Walt]

John, That sea grape tree, being up against the east side of the building is protected from the N.W. wind (the direction where the coldest air comes from during the winter Arctic plunges. The rear (east side) of the building also gets a fair amount of direct sunshine, so I'm sure the block walls absorb and radiate the heat out at night.

You are correct about the Google photo being taken in 2011 -- after the cold December of 2010. In fact, December of 2010 set a record for the lowest average monthly temperature in Florida and Georgia. Again, I recorded a low of 20.8 degrees on the coldest morning, and I venture to say it was even colder on other parts of my property. Yet up in town I highly doubt it want below 30 degrees as I drove up there a day or so later and I saw papaya leaves with no wilt, and some in other locations with just minor wilt. Also, the largest sea grape tree up in town (that I know of) didn't look hurt to me. In the below Google photo the sea grape tree is in the distance by a brown colored building. You have to magnify it, but still it's not sharp.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3012976,-81.3662197,3a,55.2y,180.68h,85.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saNn4_rHycjXCBBQZH4cbow!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

One of my Hibiscus tiliaceus finally started to make blooms this past fall. I just wish they were heavy bloomers as my wife loves flowers and color. She thinks all my green palms look monotonous, but that's because she doesn't understand (LOL!). Although, she loves our silver bismarckia palms. They are her favorites.

http://floridata.com/Plants/Malvaceae/Hibiscus%20tiliaceus/567

Peltophorum dubium (commonly  called yellow Poinciana) are common around my environs. We have some very big ones. They won't start blooming until late May or June. What puzzles me this year is that my Tabebuia chrysotricha are not blooming yet. In past years they start getting blooms in late January. I regret I even planted this species. My wife got some seed pods from a friend about 16 or so years ago. We planted three saplings. They are now mature trees, but they are invasive. The most invasive of any plant (period) I'm growing. I literally have thousands of these trees coming up from blown seed. I have to mow them down constantly, but they regenerate. Where my mower can't reach (close around tree trunks) I have to hand cut them down -- but they regrow.

I'm growing about 10 species of ficus (several that are still in pots, but the rest in the ground). But, for the life of me I can't seem to be able to root cuttings from Ficus benghalensis that I've taken numerous times from numerous local banyan trees. I plan to try again this spring. My goal in life is to create as much a tropical look on my property as I can, and ficus trees help make that look, IMO.

[Walt]

Here's another sea grape near the royal palms I posted photos of earlier in this thread:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3951378,-81.2405191,3a,75y,241.96h,86.61t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz68Qbr_1cVrB5HDliSHh4Q!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dz68Qbr_1cVrB5HDliSHh4Q%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D130.15654%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

23 hours ago, Walt said:

John, That sea grape tree, being up against the east side of the building is protected from the N.W. wind (the direction where the coldest air comes from during the winter Arctic plunges. The rear (east side) of the building also gets a fair amount of direct sunshine, so I'm sure the block walls absorb and radiate the heat out at night.

You are correct about the Google photo being taken in 2011 -- after the cold December of 2010. In fact, December of 2010 set a record for the lowest average monthly temperature in Florida and Georgia. Again, I recorded a low of 20.8 degrees on the coldest morning, and I venture to say it was even colder on other parts of my property. Yet up in town I highly doubt it want below 30 degrees as I drove up there a day or so later and I saw papaya leaves with no wilt, and some in other locations with just minor wilt. Also, the largest sea grape tree up in town (that I know of) didn't look hurt to me. In the below Google photo the sea grape tree is in the distance by a brown colored building. You have to magnify it, but still it's not sharp.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3012976,-81.3662197,3a,55.2y,180.68h,85.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saNn4_rHycjXCBBQZH4cbow!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

One of my Hibiscus tiliaceus finally started to make blooms this past fall. I just wish they were heavy bloomers as my wife loves flowers and color. She thinks all my green palms look monotonous, but that's because she doesn't understand (LOL!). Although, she loves our silver bismarckia palms. They are her favorites.

http://floridata.com/Plants/Malvaceae/Hibiscus%20tiliaceus/567

Peltophorum dubium (commonly  called yellow Poinciana) are common around my environs. We have some very big ones. They won't start blooming until late May or June. What puzzles me this year is that my Tabebuia chrysotricha are not blooming yet. In past years they start getting blooms in late January. I regret I even planted this species. My wife got some seed pods from a friend about 16 or so years ago. We planted three saplings. They are now mature trees, but they are invasive. The most invasive of any plant (period) I'm growing. I literally have thousands of these trees coming up from blown seed. I have to mow them down constantly, but they regenerate. Where my mower can't reach (close around tree trunks) I have to hand cut them down -- but they regrow.

I'm growing about 10 species of ficus (several that are still in pots, but the rest in the ground). But, for the life of me I can't seem to be able to root cuttings from Ficus benghalensis that I've taken numerous times from numerous local banyan trees. I plan to try again this spring. My goal in life is to create as much a tropical look on my property as I can, and ficus trees help make that look, IMO.

Walt,

That's another huge Sea Grape and it's so full of leaves like the other photo you posted of one behind the building that is likely to be cut down. I think part of it is protection like you said, but certainly your much higher rainfall than we have must have a lot to do with it too.  I think my Sea Grape is the only local one that even comes close to the amount of foliage the ones you have shown have, and that's because I water mine every once in a while when we don't have any rain and I apply my high quality MicroLife All Organic Fertilizer to it a couple of times a year. like I do with all my plants.

Hopefully there won't be any more winters like 2010.  Speaking of temps, my yard had a low of 44.4F this morning and the airport which is so much further inland only got down to 46F!  Go figure.  My yard should be 4F to 6F warmer consistently than the airport in the winter, but many times, my yard is only 2F to 3F warmer, and this morning was actually colder!  It really ticks me off that the yard my wife and I bought with our house is actually for some strange reason a cold pocket even though I live on a slight ridge about 12ft. to 14ft. above sea level and the Laguna Madre is only 6/10 of a mile to my east.

I love Hibiscus.  They are my favorite flowering shrub.  I have a large single red (which in my experience is the most cold hardy of the tropical hibiscus) that has pegged to the ground in the 10 gal. pot I put it in and has grown into a small tree.  I want to move it to the backyard from beside the front patio and plant it next to my Macaw's cage.  I wish I had room for some of the larger hibiscus like what you have, but in my small yard, I am rapidly running out of space to plant anything and still have some decent walking areas in the backyard.

I am looking forward to my Royal Poinciana flowering one day, but again, unfortunately I don't have room to plant a Yellow Poinciana.  I remember the Tabebuias when I lived in Coral Springs.  As I recall, they have yellow flowers and kind of a gnarled bark trunk.

I have 2 Banyans (benghalensis) I grew from cuttings from a local tree just around the corner from my place.  Before the 2011 freeze, I think it must have been about 35 to 40ft. tall, but was nipped back to 8ft. or so up the trunk from the ground.  It began to regrow, and in Jan. 2013 was probably recovering pretty good, but the homeowner decided to cut it up and left the cuttings out by the street for the city garbage truck to pick up on the bulk pick up day.  My wife and I were walking in the neighborhood shortly after he cut it back and came home with several of the cuttings.  I was able to get about 3 of them to start growing, including one that I just stuck in the sand in my backyard and watered it only a few times, and it started to grow a little.  I didn't even fertilize that cutting, and basically neglected it for the better part of a year, then when I saw it was holding on with a few new leaves, I decided to dig it up and pot it up in a 5gal. pot with my homemade potting soil that I use (a mixture of 100% organic compost with some topsoil and the sand out of my yard) and applied some of my MicroLife organic fertilizer, and watered it more, and it really started taking off.  The other cuttings I potted up with my fertilizer and sold one or two of them, and the other is in a 3gal. size pot.  My yard is not big enough to handle a Banyan, so it is a good thing I dug up the cutting I had in the yard.  I love them, but I would need a much bigger yard to support one.  I do however have a Ficus benjamina, a Florida Strangler Fig, and a Ficus with a triangular paddle shaped leaf all in the ground along my back fence line to help create a canopy and wind break for the north and northwest winds in my yard in the winter.  I am also trying to create as much of a tropical look as I can, and my goal over the next 3+ years is to have the most tropical yard in overall appearance in Corpus Christi.  There are a couple of my fellow Palm Society of South Texas members who have a whole lot more exotic palm species than I have in their yards, but overall, I think I have the most varied miniature botanical garden type tropical setting in my little yard with my Royal Poinciana, Hong Kong Orchid Tree (in full bloom), my Giant Bird of Paradise, my Bananas, Mango, Avocado, 4 types of citrus, my 3 types of Ficus, Pineapple Guava, Hibiscus, Bougainvillea, Esperanza, Plumeria, as well as my 14 different species of palms in the ground with plans to ultimately plant about 4 or 5 more along with some Bromeliads and tropical vines like Epiprimnum and Monstera.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2016‎ ‎7‎:‎49‎:‎58‎, Walt said:

Here's another sea grape near the royal palms I posted photos of earlier in this thread:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3951378,-81.2405191,3a,75y,241.96h,86.61t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz68Qbr_1cVrB5HDliSHh4Q!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dz68Qbr_1cVrB5HDliSHh4Q%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D130.15654%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Wow, another beautiful Sea Grape, Walt.  If mine gets even close to half that size, I will be very happy.

John

[Walt]

19 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Wow, another beautiful Sea Grape, Walt.  If mine gets even close to half that size, I will be very happy.

John

John, This summer I'm going to re visit many of the coconut palms growing around here. Several years ago I took photos off all I could find. This year I want to make a YouTube video of the many coconut palms that grow in the lakeside communities. I still need to get a video editing software program to do it. All my YouTube video are just straight shot videos with no editing. I also want to do a YouTube video on some of the large ficus trees here, also in lakefront communities or private properties.

In the two below photos, the first photo shows a coconut palm growing on the N.E. end of Lake June. The palm is probably 150 feet up from the lake on a downward slope.

In the second photo is a coconut palm in the front yard of a home that is not on the lake, but across the street from the lakeside homes. This is by Lake Grassy (although the link says Lake Huntley).

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

24 minutes ago, Walt said:

John, This summer I'm going to re visit many of the coconut palms growing around here. Several years ago I took photos off all I could find. This year I want to make a YouTube video of the many coconut palms that grow in the lakeside communities. I still need to get a video editing software program to do it. All my YouTube video are just straight shot videos with no editing. I also want to do a YouTube video on some of the large ficus trees here, also in lakefront communities or private properties.

In the two below photos, the first photo shows a coconut palm growing on the N.E. end of Lake June. The palm is probably 150 feet up from the lake on a downward slope.

In the second photo is a coconut palm in the front yard of a home that is not on the lake, but across the street from the lakeside homes. This is by Lake Grassy (although the link says Lake Huntley).

Walt,

I look forward to seeing those videos.  If you have the time and the resources, you might want to consider making one of the local Sea Grapes too, especially since they really do go hand in hand with Coconut Palms.  I think the palm in the first photo looks like a Green Malayan Dwarf due to the narrow almost straight trunk, and the one in the second photo looks like a very healthy robust Jamaican Tall with the swollen bowl at the base and the thicker much taller trunk.

John

[Matthew92]

Me driving around town lately be like: 

[Palmsbro]

  The Sabal palmetto's look soooooo much better having never been pruned or having their boots cut off. Also, Phoenix palms don't look all that great with a pineapple on top with a couple of fronds tightly bound up above it.

[Matthew92]

I've noticed in footage and pictures from Hurricane Michael that some Sabal palms snapped at a part of the trunk like this. I think that narrow spot is the time the palm was transplanted to that location.

[sur4z]

On 4/4/2018, 10:16:39, Palmsbro said:

  The Sabal palmetto's look soooooo much better having never been pruned or having their boots cut off. Also, Phoenix palms don't look all that great with a pineapple on top with a couple of fronds tightly bound up above it.

I agree...

[CB Lisa]

Soooo...it’s taken me a while to emotionally heal enough to post this pic.  The ultimate hurricane cut. Over 60 Sabals cut down by a new neighbor next door, after being told they ALL had termites and would be a hazard in storms. The oak tree was also cut down. Absolutely sickening. 

[Manalto]

Ugh. And the Araucarias stand, one of the most likely hazards in a storm.

[Missi]

13 hours ago, CB Lisa said:

Soooo...it’s taken me a while to emotionally heal enough to post this pic.  The ultimate hurricane cut. Over 60 Sabals cut down by a new neighbor next door, after being told they ALL had termites and would be a hazard in storms. The oak tree was also cut down. Absolutely sickening. 

[Cindy Adair]

That is so very sad. 

[DoomsDave]

On 10/22/2018, 5:35:20, CB Lisa said:

Soooo...it’s taken me a while to emotionally heal enough to post this pic.  The ultimate hurricane cut. Over 60 Sabals cut down by a new neighbor next door, after being told they ALL had termites and would be a hazard in storms. The oak tree was also cut down. Absolutely sickening. 

Yeah, I know the feeling, and I'm girding for the time when I have to sell my place and start very very heavy "editing" to prep it for the market full of normal people.

[Manalto]

1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

...I'm girding for the time when I have to sell my place and start very very heavy "editing" to prep it for the market full of normal people.

That's "normal" with sarcastic quotes. Be sure you get rid of all traces of color inside the house, too.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Manalto

[DoomsDave]

2 minutes ago, Manalto said:

That's "normal" with sarcastic quotes. Be sure you get rid of all traces of color inside the house, too.

I'd love to be able to sell the place to a palm nut as is. It's very rare to be able to do that, though, and I know about two dozen over the years who've tried, and failed. And, heirs aren't always the best custodians, either, especially if there's a serious water bill.

My place is a bit ookie from the front.

[Manalto]

I respectfully disagree. Viewed from the air, my property (and those of a few people I know with whom I share a similar horticultural aesthetic) looks like a fluffy green postage stamp with no visible house stuck to a lighter green page. I'd say your front yard looks like a tropical sanctuary.