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Pal Meir

Juvenile Trachycarpus wagnerianus at 50°N

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Pal Meir

I planted a juvenile 4 years old Trachycarpus wagnerianus, which I had grown up from seed in 2003, on 28 April 2007 outdoors in Heidelberg/Germany at 49.4°N. The following pics document the very limited growth and its struggle with long and hard freezes. Here are the photos of the first 4 years outdoors from 2007 to 2011.

(1) first day in the ground (2007-04-28)

post-10467-0-07802500-1436628757_thumb.j

(2) first winter outdoors (2008-02-03)

post-10467-0-99212100-1436628776_thumb.j

(3) after the 3rd winter (2010-03-12)

post-10467-0-05024600-1436628791_thumb.j

(4) the 4th summer (2010-07-19)

post-10467-0-73108800-1436628804_thumb.j

(5) the 4th winter (2011-01-01)

post-10467-0-26591600-1436628825_thumb.j

(6) the 5th summer outdoors (2011-08-20)

post-10467-0-12469700-1436628842_thumb.j

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Pal Meir

And here pics showing the palm after a severe and long lasting freeze in February 2012 without protecting snow.

(7) after the dry freeze (2012-03-17)

post-10467-0-11626600-1436629359_thumb.j

(8 & 9) the damages get visible (2012-08-20 & 2012-10-03)

post-10467-0-39124200-1436629372_thumb.j post-10467-0-06703000-1436629388_thumb.j

(10) the 6th winter outdoors (2013-02-15)

post-10467-0-36632800-1436629401_thumb.j

(11) the 7th summer (2013-08-20)

post-10467-0-87916500-1436629417_thumb.j

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Pal Meir

The last pics show the palm during summer 2014, winter 2014/15, and the present state in summer 2015, 12 years old and 8 years outdoors at 49.4° North.

(12) summer 2014 (2014-07-29)

post-10467-0-53615100-1436629972_thumb.j

(13) winter 2014/15 (2014-12-24)

post-10467-0-91714100-1436629983_thumb.j

(14) summer 2015 (2015-06-15)

post-10467-0-61785300-1436629995_thumb.j

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Brad Mondel

Doesn't look too happy but at least it's alive.

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Brad Mondel

Doesn't look too happy but at least it's alive.

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Pal Meir

Doesn't look too happy but at least it's alive.

As it seems this juvenile Trachy was the only palm which survived the severe freeze of February 2012 in Heidelberg and surroundings. Even all adult palms which tall stems had died. Another Trachy that I had planted together with the above one didn't survive. So I have planted in March 2014 a second Trachy (grown up from seed in 2003 as small bonsai) as substitute:

2014-03-08, just planted:

post-10467-0-08737100-1436653692_thumb.j

2015-06-29, at present after one winter outdoors:

post-10467-0-69271300-1436653836_thumb.j

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Kai

Yes here in Holland we remeber that winter of 2012 very wel. Lot of damage for many people and the exotic plant dealers were happy again with lots of business...

Your waggie looks fine but seems to be horribly slow!

Good job documenting its growth! Thnx!

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Pal Meir

Yes here in Holland we remeber that winter of 2012 very wel. Lot of damage for many people and the exotic plant dealers were happy again with lots of business...

Your waggie looks fine but seems to be horribly slow!

Good job documenting its growth! Thnx!

The problem in 2012 was that the January was relatively warm, and we didn't have any snow. Than came February and March with very dry and cold east wind that killed almost all exotic plantlife here. Compared to my potted Trachys the growth was nearly invisible; here the same potted specimen in 2005 and 3 years later in 2008:

post-10467-0-55101400-1436707151_thumb.j post-10467-0-48223600-1436707164_thumb.j

The potted Trachy was the last 2 years almost all the time outdoors.

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Hammer

I wonder, if with a little more winter protection while it is still so small, if you could get some size on that thing a little faster.

Heidelberg! In college I tried very hard to join an exchange program in your city. But after the 1st year I applied I got distracted and never reapplied. A big regret. I have heard Heidelberg is breathtakingly gorgeous. I hope to finally visit one day soon.

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Pal Meir

I wonder, if with a little more winter protection while it is still so small, if you could get some size on that thing a little faster.

Heidelberg! In college I tried very hard to join an exchange program in your city. But after the 1st year I applied I got distracted and never reapplied. A big regret. I have heard Heidelberg is breathtakingly gorgeous. I hope to finally visit one day soon.

All Trachys planted outdoors here in Germany are already adult palms with a real trunk. These two palms are still seedlings, so their growth is very slow. But the Trachy I planted in 2007 was the only one in the whole city which survived. The only protection was just a couple of twigs of an Xmas tree.

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Richard Booth

Looks like it gets whacked every winter, recovers in summer and then gets whacked again, so it's not really putting out any growth. Why not protect it to give it a head start in spring and allow it to grow a bit bigger? Imo it needs to reach critical mass to even have a chance.

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Pal Meir

Looks like it gets whacked every winter, recovers in summer and then gets whacked again, so it's not really putting out any growth. Why not protect it to give it a head start in spring and allow it to grow a bit bigger? Imo it needs to reach critical mass to even have a chance.

It HAS put out some growth in the last 8 years as you can see here:

I have composed two photos to the same scale, one taken on 2007-04-28, the other on 2015-06-29, so that it is possible to compare the relative sizes of the two states of growth.

post-10467-0-23977500-1437303460_thumb.j

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Flow

You're only 300km from where I live but my waggy seems to be much faster than yours. However, I only planted it after the bad february 2012.

It was rather slow to start but this year it seems to have finally settled in properly and growth has accelerated considerably.

I just hope winters like 2012 don't come again because normal winters here are no problem for it.

I've just snapped a pic ten minutes ago, sorry about the bad quality, 10l watering can for scale:

DSC_0034_zpsdqokz2te.jpg

The overall height is about 1.20m but the trunk is still only a bit more than 40cm.

DSC_0035_zpsiivmz4cx.jpg

It only receives afternoon/ evening sun. The last weeks have been so dry that growth seemed to slow down and I've started watering it.

Here's a pic from April 2012 just after planting. I find it has grown quite okay.

Trachycarpus%20wagnerianus%202%2020.04.2

cheers

Edited by Flow
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Pal Meir

The size of your Wagner in 2012 was about the same size as my potted one in #8 (right one of 2008). When I planted the first Wagner in 2007 it was smaller than 20 cm. When these palms have something like a trunk the growth will accelerate. And because I don’t live at present in Heidelberg it is nearly impossible for me to protect it in winter against long lasting freezes.

The growth of your Waggy within 3 years is impressive. :greenthumb: And it looks very healthy. Do you provide some shelter in winter?

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Flow

No protection so far but I have something ready in case it should be necessary.

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Howeadypsis

Great to see these!

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Yunder Wækraus

Have you tried a needle palm?

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Pal Meir

Have you tried a needle palm?

Do you mean me or Flow? I have tried Rhapidophyllum only in pots:

post-10467-0-33284700-1438689479_thumb.j

But as R. is a broad spreading palm it is no suited for the location I am growing the T. wagneriana: It is on a grave with very limited space.

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Brad Mondel

Wow Flow, your Waggies are beautiful !

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Flow

Thank you very much!

I have the impression that it slows down quite a bit when temps go above 30C. In july, we had a short period with temps up to 39C (two weeks or so) and growth almost stopped.

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Pal Meir

An update, now with 7 leaves, no leaf lost during last winter: :greenthumb:

(15) 2015-07-28

post-10467-0-53346100-1438954710_thumb.j

The other palm was damaged by an unknown lout, loosing 3 leaves. :rage:

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Brad Mondel

Looking good Pal, I'm happy to see you guys growing Waggies. They're a favorite of mine!

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Pal Meir

Growth within one year, only two new leaves: August 2015 vs August 2014.

post-10467-0-88962800-1439403890_thumb.j

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Jos Mannaart

Hello Pal,

We live near Rotterdam and have C fortunei.

They make one new leaf at the moment every two weeks.

Size at the moment is like yours.

Chamearops humilis is growing fast here as well

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Pal Meir

Here the latest update before winter (2015-10-21), with 7 fronds and 2 spears, this year it won’t grow any more … :asleep:

Trachycarpus_wagnerianus_2015-10-21_P100

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Pal Meir

Update 2016-03-14, no visible damage past winter, even without any protection:

56f3f1ab1d979_Twagnerianus2016-03-14P101

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Hamal

I planted my T. fortunei in spring 2014. My location is at 51.5°N in an area called south Muensterland about 30km east of the Ruhrgebiet. The last 3 winters have been really mild, even though we had some snow this year in January and a low that would most likely have killed a Phoenix canariensis. The first picture shows the 2€-palm from a local garden center in 2014 after I planted it. I guess it was probably 2 or 3 years old at that time.

56f4360f91c75_Baumarkt_TraFor20140308.JP

The next picture shows it covered with this winter's snow in January 2016. No damage whatsoever as expected. The low for this year was -9C (16F).

56f43610ea4cb_Baumarkt_TraFor20160117.JP

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Pal Meir

The 2nd T wagnerianus (in ground since March 2014) showed also no frost damage:

56f56cb6c0760_TwagnerianusB2016-03-14P10

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Pal Meir

First sign of spring (2016-04-22): :D

571b77bb0d33b_Twagnerianus2016-04-22IMG_

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Las Palmas Norte

This reminds me ... my 5 gallon wagnerianus needs planting this spring.

Cheers, Barrie.

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Pal Meir

An update from yesterday (2016-06-03) of the two T. wagnerianus, since 7 resp. 2 German winters outdoors:

5752c36ebda96_Trachy2003(2007)2016-06-03

5752c377267e8_Trachy2003(2014)2016-06-03

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Howeadypsis

Looking really good!

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Pal Meir
7 minutes ago, Howeadypsis said:

Looking really good!

Oh, thank you for your nice compliment! The palms will be happy, they love compliments. :)

But I have to correct myself: 2016 minus 2007 is 9, not 7, :rolleyes: that means »after nine winters« … ;)

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Pal Meir

Whitish backside of latest leaf (2016-06-17):

5766d4c9ddf46_Trachycarpuswagnerianus201

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Zeeth

Thanks for the update! I'm currently working as a Gastwissenschaftler in Freiburg, which is supposedly the warmest city in Germany. I suspect that Trachycarpus would do okay outdoors here, but I've only seen 2 or 3 planted in the ground. I've heard that there's a Butia odorata somewhere in the city, but I haven't found it yet. I did see a loquat tree and a banana clump (likely M. basjoo) in a local Schrebergarten, which was a nice surprise.

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Pal Meir
30 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

Thanks for the update! I'm currently working as a Gastwissenschaftler in Freiburg, which is supposedly the warmest city in Germany. I suspect that Trachycarpus would do okay outdoors here, but I've only seen 2 or 3 planted in the ground. I've heard that there's a Butia odorata somewhere in the city, but I haven't found it yet. I did see a loquat tree and a banana clump (likely M. basjoo) in a local Schrebergarten, which was a nice surprise.

Welcome to Germany! — The problem in Freiburg is the same as everywhere in Germany: The average low temps would allow to plant Trachys in ground even in Hamburg, but the record lows (which come relatively often without protecting snow lasting many days or weeks) would kill their roots and meristem.

5766e757efdcb_FreiburgClimate.thumb.jpg.

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Ben in Norcal
2 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

Welcome to Germany! — The problem in Freiburg is the same as everywhere in Germany: The average low temps would allow to plant Trachys in ground even in Hamburg, but the record lows (which come relatively often without protecting snow lasting many days or weeks) would kill their roots and meristem.

5766e757efdcb_FreiburgClimate.thumb.jpg.

Holy cow, record lows around freezing even in the summer...that's crazy.  Not exactly palm Mecca...

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Howeadypsis
On 19/06/2016, 19:10:45, Zeeth said:

Thanks for the update! I'm currently working as a Gastwissenschaftler in Freiburg, 

Working as a what? 

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Zeeth
52 minutes ago, Howeadypsis said:

Working as a what? 

Guest-scientist. 

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