CA drought fines for water use

[DALION]

I got my water bill this weekend and the attached is the fines for excess watering in my city. Notice the fines are for usage regardless to how many people live in the house. Our water district has been told to cut 36% or face $10K a day fines.

[DoomsDave]

Ouch.

Hope you're not in the net.

Asked Mods to move this to the main forum. This is about as main as it gets.

How's the HIgh School? What's their water like?

[PALM MOD]

Ouch.

Hope you're not in the net.

Asked Mods to move this to the main forum. This is about as main as it gets.

How's the HIgh School? What's their water like?

I'm thinking all drought and water district related topics - of which there are bound to be many - should be in this forum, unless palms and/or pics of palms are actually discussed.

[DoomsDave]

Okay.

[LJG]

I got my water bill this weekend and the attached is the fines for excess watering in my city. Notice the fines are for usage regardless to how many people live in the house. Our water district has been told to cut 36% or face $10K a day fines.

Screenshot_2015-05-31-20-00-49.png

This is cut off so I can not read the details. This is my biggest fear is a uniform amount regardless of family size or lot size. Do you have more details or can you tell me what water district?

[Peter G]

This bill looks similar to the way ours is structured in Perth, we have the option of converting to bore for approx $4000 and there are plenty of nice gardens.

I think Adelaide also has this billing style and most lawns are completely dead in Summer, it looks awful. Phil would know those details.

[Dypsisdean]

I got my water bill this weekend and the attached is the fines for excess watering in my city. Notice the fines are for usage regardless to how many people live in the house. Our water district has been told to cut 36% or face $10K a day fines.

Screenshot_2015-05-31-20-00-49.png

This is cut off so I can not read the details. This is my biggest fear is a uniform amount regardless of family size or lot size. Do you have more details or can you tell me what water district?

You should keep your eyes on this law suit - it could affect the ability of water districts to do a lot of things. Apparently the tiered rate, as currently implemented by many agencies, may be in violation of state laws.

The law suit argued "the tiered rate structure violates state law that prohibits agencies from charging more than water actually costs — no matter how much customers use"

And an appeal by the city of a lower court that ruled its rate structure was unconstitutional was rejected last month - that is, the ruling was upheld - the tiered rate structure as implemented was unconstitutional.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-water-rates-case-20150405-story.html

[LJG]

Dean, been following it. Now is used as case law in other places where it is been sent to court.

[Tyrone]

This bill looks similar to the way ours is structured in Perth, we have the option of converting to bore for approx $4000 and there are plenty of nice gardens.

I think Adelaide also has this billing style and most lawns are completely dead in Summer, it looks awful. Phil would know those details.

Are they fining people for overuse in Perth now. I thought they just started charging you exponentially once you went past a certain point and that your amount accumulates over the financial year.

[Pando]

I got my water bill this weekend and the attached is the fines for excess watering in my city. Notice the fines are for usage regardless to how many people live in the house. Our water district has been told to cut 36% or face $10K a day fines.

Screenshot_2015-05-31-20-00-49.png

This is cut off so I can not read the details. This is my biggest fear is a uniform amount regardless of family size or lot size. Do you have more details or can you tell me what water district?

You should keep your eyes on this law suit - it could affect the ability of water districts to do a lot of things. Apparently the tiered rate, as currently implemented by many agencies, may be in violation of state laws.

The law suit argued "the tiered rate structure violates state law that prohibits agencies from charging more than water actually costs — no matter how much customers use"

And an appeal by the city of a lower court that ruled its rate structure was unconstitutional was rejected last month - that is, the ruling was upheld - the tiered rate structure as implemented was unconstitutional.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-water-rates-case-20150405-story.html

This applies only to tiered rates that do not correspond to the actual cost of water from different sources. Districts that have multiple sources of water (such as aqueduct, desalination, well, etc.) can do tiered rates, so it's different for every agency. Which is why some agencies with only one source of water are going to penalties as opposed to using tiered rates.

[DALION]

Here is the full letter sent to all residents here in Yorba Linda.

My water bill will not be teired. The add "fee" is the fine for excess water use.

Yorba Linda cut 10% in years ago and now is told they have to cut 36% more. The Mayor is suing the State because we are not being given credit for the prior cut. Maybe it's the fact that Yorba Linda has the highest population of Republicans in the state of any city.

Ordinance_No._15-01.pdf

[DALION]

Ouch.

Hope you're not in the net.

Asked Mods to move this to the main forum. This is about as main as it gets.

How's the HIgh School? What's their water like?

Dave I have been in the $10 fine section every month. To save water I ripped up my grass in the front yard which was almost 1000 square feet. Now instead of watering the front lawn I have extra water for my palms.

The palms of Bell High are doing fine. They water heavily and they are thriving. Thanks again for the donation.

[LJG]

Is it $10 total for that tier? Or $10 per unit over use in that tier?

[LJG]

I got my water bill this weekend and the attached is the fines for excess watering in my city. Notice the fines are for usage regardless to how many people live in the house. Our water district has been told to cut 36% or face $10K a day fines.Screenshot_2015-05-31-20-00-49.png

This is cut off so I can not read the details. This is my biggest fear is a uniform amount regardless of family size or lot size. Do you have more details or can you tell me what water district?

You should keep your eyes on this law suit - it could affect the ability of water districts to do a lot of things. Apparently the tiered rate, as currently implemented by many agencies, may be in violation of state laws.

The law suit argued "the tiered rate structure violates state law that prohibits agencies from charging more than water actually costs no matter how much customers use"

And an appeal by the city of a lower court that ruled its rate structure was unconstitutional was rejected last month - that is, the ruling was upheld - the tiered rate structure as implemented was unconstitutional.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-water-rates-case-20150405-story.html

This applies only to tiered rates that do not correspond to the actual cost of water from different sources. Districts that have multiple sources of water (such as aqueduct, desalination, well, etc.) can do tiered rates, so it's different for every agency. Which is why some agencies with only one source of water are going to penalties as opposed to using tiered rates.

This is not necessary true and why other districts are now being sued or in the progress of being sued off the San Juan judgement. It includes places that get their water from multiple sources. It shouldn't matter if it comes from one place or multiple, the fact is you can not charge more for something that doesn't have proven additional cost associated with its delivery. Some multi-sourced districts might be able to prove it cost more and hence charge more, but others can not. That's what the courts are for.

[DALION]

Is it $10 total for that tier? Or $10 per unit over use in that tier?

In typical political fashion... I don't know because they didn't say.

[Pip]

This bill looks similar to the way ours is structured in Perth, we have the option of converting to bore for approx $4000 and there are plenty of nice gardens.

I think Adelaide also has this billing style and most lawns are completely dead in Summer, it looks awful. Phil would know those details.

Are they fining people for overuse in Perth now. I thought they just started charging you exponentially once you went past a certain point and that your amount accumulates over the financial year.

Adelaide has a desalination plant now so residents can use water it just costs more. There are still some kind of restriction on water use in South Australia designed around getting the most out water minimizing waste. At the moment there is no real reason for lawns to be left to die in Adelaide other than not wanting to pay for water used. The newer areas such as Mawson Lakes, parts of Seaford and Aldinga Beach have reclaimed water from the waste water treatment plants available for irrigation. There has been a fair amount of work in trying to maintain Adelaide's gardens. The only eay anyone would be fined now is if they where letting irrigation run off flow into the gutter. I think since the last big dry in 2007-2009 people have just become acustomed to not watering gardens. The region definitely looked less lush during that dry period many large old trees did die.

My house has two large rain water tanks that supply my entire house for part of the year depending on the amount of rain we get.

[displaced_floridian]

I got my water bill this weekend and the attached is the fines for excess watering in my city. Notice the fines are for usage regardless to how many people live in the house. Our water district has been told to cut 36% or face $10K a day fines.

Screenshot_2015-05-31-20-00-49.png

What do they mean by 'units'?

[LJG]

I got my water bill this weekend and the attached is the fines for excess watering in my city. Notice the fines are for usage regardless to how many people live in the house. Our water district has been told to cut 36% or face $10K a day fines.Screenshot_2015-05-31-20-00-49.png

What do they mean by 'units'?

Unit is 752 gallons of water.

[Moose]

Oh - does this mean the desert Coconuts are going to be watered less ???

That would be a very bad thing

[DALION]

Oh - does this mean the desert Coconuts are going to be watered less ???

That would be a very bad thing

Moose don't hijack my thread. This is not a palm related thread. If you want to talk about desert coconuts please go post your thought on the 9 or 10 pages that thread has reached.

[Tyrone]

This bill looks similar to the way ours is structured in Perth, we have the option of converting to bore for approx $4000 and there are plenty of nice gardens.

I think Adelaide also has this billing style and most lawns are completely dead in Summer, it looks awful. Phil would know those details.

Are they fining people for overuse in Perth now. I thought they just started charging you exponentially once you went past a certain point and that your amount accumulates over the financial year.

Adelaide has a desalination plant now so residents can use water it just costs more. There are still some kind of restriction on water use in South Australia designed around getting the most out water minimizing waste. At the moment there is no real reason for lawns to be left to die in Adelaide other than not wanting to pay for water used. The newer areas such as Mawson Lakes, parts of Seaford and Aldinga Beach have reclaimed water from the waste water treatment plants available for irrigation. There has been a fair amount of work in trying to maintain Adelaide's gardens. The only eay anyone would be fined now is if they where letting irrigation run off flow into the gutter. I think since the last big dry in 2007-2009 people have just become acustomed to not watering gardens. The region definitely looked less lush during that dry period many large old trees did die.

My house has two large rain water tanks that supply my entire house for part of the year depending on the amount of rain we get.

Perth has two desal plants but the authorities would rather you never watered your garden, never brushed your teeth, never flushed the toilet, never cleaned your clothes. It's what happens on the worlds driest continent with an uncontrolled population growth and delayed improvements to badly needed infrastructure. I'm so glad at my new place that I'm not connected to the mains water supply and use nothing but rainwater for the house supply, and use the main lake and a bore to irrigate the garden. I don't need to deal with the Water Corp at all. Now if I can go off grid solar then I won't have to deal with the energy providers either.

I'm not envious of the So Cal situation at the moment.

[Dave-Vero]

My town has a creaky, inefficient reverse osmosis plant to clean up pollutants from shallow wells under the town airport. No one seems to want to invest in more efficient equipment, or find a cleaner water source. I guess it's an example of how public utilities operate.

Washington Post has a (subscription) serious article on California water fines. I suspect dead palms are in the future.

Rancho Santa Fe "Residents who exceed their allotment could see their already sky-high water bills triple. And for ultra-wealthy customers undeterred by financial penalties, the district reserves the right to install flow restrictors — quarter-size disks that make it difficult to, say, shower and do a load of laundry at the same time."

[enigma99]

Here is the full letter sent to all residents here in Yorba Linda.

My water bill will not be teired. The add "fee" is the fine for excess water use.

Yorba Linda cut 10% in years ago and now is told they have to cut 36% more. The Mayor is suing the State because we are not being given credit for the prior cut. Maybe it's the fact that Yorba Linda has the highest population of Republicans in the state of any city.

Are these water districts taking into account family size? In 2013 I was just by myself now I have a family of 4. Pretty hard to save 30%+ when I'm running more bath water, more laundry and dishes etc. Even though I have cut back irrigation I am still using more than last year. Edited June 14, 2015 by enigma99

[DALION]

Here is the full letter sent to all residents here in Yorba Linda.

My water bill will not be teired. The add "fee" is the fine for excess water use.

Yorba Linda cut 10% in years ago and now is told they have to cut 36% more. The Mayor is suing the State because we are not being given credit for the prior cut. Maybe it's the fact that Yorba Linda has the highest population of Republicans in the state of any city.

Are these water districts taking into account family size? In 2013 I was just by myself now I have a family of 4. Pretty hard to save 30%+ when I'm running more bath water, more laundry and dishes etc. Even though I have cut back irrigation I am still using more than last year.

The amounts are without discretion. They don't care about home size, population in the home, prior water usage, or anything else.

Use more than 18 units and pay a fine, PERIOD!