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Danilopez89

Is this a coconut or am I dreaming?

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Alicante

@ Danilopez89 as you mentioned above, Plumeria and Papaya is also growing in your region. These other tropical plants are no indicators for a coco.

Here along the Cyprus coast you can find many Plumerias, Papayas and other tropic plants in the gardens without any protection but beside Stelios who is also active in this forum no coconut. I guess there could be some more microclimate hot spots around to support cocos. Our garden would give a try, but unfortunately I have no free wall facing south and the soil is like of concrete and a huge job to replace with sand. But I keep my fingers crossed for Stelios Coco palm and all others who want to try. Maybe once I do some changes in our garden and come back to this issue.

+1 this is true, Plumerias and Papayas aren't a indicator.

I got small Plumerias on my flat terrace (they are the entire year located outdoors) and I've seen big plumerias in my zone. They grow in a lot extension of the coast of Spain.

Papayas at La Mojonera: (probably the only place in continental Europe when they are growing and fructifying, but I don't state that, if someone knows another places with Papayas on continental Europe be free to say it!)

papayas-www.jpg

Papayas also grow in certain places of the southernmost coast of Spain, which has the mildest climate in continental Europe (there are some zones which never achieved a temperature below the freezing mark) like Almería or the zone of Almuñecar; and in all of those places all the tryings of coconuts failed.

In Málaga, in the Central Park, the planted Roystoneas grown extremely fast in only 2 years, and mangos are largely cultivated in that area. Also Málaga has a park with almost all the species of palm trees; but you will not see any coconut.

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Alicante

Hmm. Looks like it's the extra bit of heat that makes the difference.

Here's a street in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Coconuts on the right, it appears.

King_Abdullah_Street%2C_Jeddah.jpg

I think those are beccariophoenix Dave.... lol

Nope, they are Cocos Nucifera.

BUT the climate of Jeddah is totally uncomparable and totally different from the climate in La Quinta.

Jeddah lowest recorded temperature is 11.4ºC/52.5ºF ... and the average highs and lows of January are 29/21ºC; which is a totally tropical climate. They should grow OK in all Jeddah.

Jeddah coconuts:

39285374.jpg

11192834_816801618398004_2106555203_n.jp

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Josh-O

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Cluster

Proeza if you find a protected spot, protected by walls (similar to the Palm Desert example here or La Quinta House) and facing south with a well drained soil (I recommend black sand.. will keep it warmer and is rich) I am sure you might be able to get it to work. Being in Continental Spain it will be harder for you to get a more mature one (which is probably easier to get in CA), so try to get one tall type and during the first 2 or three winters bring it home if the weather gets too extreme. Finally plant it on the ground and take good care of it:).

That does not mean they can grow in your location, but you have a good climate already, maybe with a little tinkering it will create a micro-climate that is enough to sustain a coconut in your protected spot. The same applies to CA really, you will probably not see them in less protected public places, but some people are managing to grow them in their spots successfully. You do have colder high temperatures during the coldest month (but not that much lower), but have higher lows and no frost ever, so give it a try. Stelios is a good example of how changing your spot makes all the difference.

Edited by Cluster

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Silas_Sancona

Just for fun, I looked over record low data for La Quinta as provided by intellicast for the months between November and March. The absolute record low of 13F was recorded in January 1937, or 78 years ago.. Even more, a monthly record low of 20F was recorded in Feb. of 1933, or 82 years ago... Note, It is very possible that the data provided for La Quinta was actually recorded in Indio at that time.

The last time this area recorded a low in the teens F was back in December of 1990 at a low of 19F. Beyond that date, there has not been a Nov-Mar period where any historical record low on any day during the 5 month period I looked at has been broken.

Would be interesting to look over all 82 years worth of daily records to track how close some days came, let alone for +/- trends that may factor into the survivability of these or any other potential Coconuts in the area.

While anything is possible, with all the growth/ continuing development in the Valley, including both La Quinta, and Palm Desert, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the coldest record lows for the Nov - March period are not reached again.

Agree that winters there can experience some cold, but, if frosts/freezes were more common, winter low averages would bottom out well below the stated low of 40F during the middle of December.

Just some thoughts.

-Nathan





Edited by Silas_Sancona

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Cluster

The record lows for some locations in upper valley (higher than La Quinta) seemed to be higher than that 13 f, but still in the teens. The development creates a bigger impact (more heat )in those confined locations compared to a coastal area. So yes lows in the teens might be impossible again, though something below 25 f might be possible very rarely. This is just mere speculation however and if the valley keeps warming up then you will eventually see coconuts outside in unprotected spots. The data suggests the impact on the lows was great with the increased development in the Valley. Compared to my city for example the heat island did not affect the extreme lows nearly as much over the years.

Edited by Cluster

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Danilopez89

Even though both the LQ and PD cocos aren't located on the valley floor where they would experience the coldest temps, they still do get freezing temps. Like I said earlier in the thread, I remember being at my friend's house in the La Quinta cove on an early morning and he had ICECLES hanging from his roof.

So what do you guys think its the main factor for why cocos are growing here in the Desert. IMO - the heat, the heat early in the morning after a cold night, the rocky sandy soil that provides for excellent drainage, and our semi dry winters. And in the end a good caretaker to give it some love.

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Silas_Sancona

The record lows for some locations in upper valley (higher than La Quinta) seemed to be higher than that 13 f, but still in the teens. The development creates a bigger impact (more heat )in those confined locations compared to a coastal area. So yes lows in the teens might be impossible again, though something below 25 f might be possible very rarely. This is just mere speculation however and if the valley keeps warming up then you will eventually see coconuts outside in unprotected spots. The data suggests the impact on the lows was great with the increased development in the Valley. Compared to my city for example the heat island did not affect the extreme lows nearly as much over the years.

Very true, Agree that recording lows in the higher 20's would still be possible even with the extra effects created by development there through time.

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Danilopez89

The record lows for some locations in upper valley (higher than La Quinta) seemed to be higher than that 13 f, but still in the teens. The development creates a bigger impact (more heat )in those confined locations compared to a coastal area. So yes lows in the teens might be impossible again, though something below 25 f might be possible very rarely. This is just mere speculation however and if the valley keeps warming up then you will eventually see coconuts outside in unprotected spots. The data suggests the impact on the lows was great with the increased development in the Valley. Compared to my city for example the heat island did not affect the extreme lows nearly as much over the years.

One of the biggest reason for this is that the valley floor used to be mainly date and citrus fields. It is now mostly residential.... if I drive 2 miles south of me into some date fields in the middle of winter after sundown the thermometer on my truck drops quickly.

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Silas_Sancona

Even though both the LQ and PD cocos aren't located on the valley floor where they would experience the coldest temps, they still do get freezing temps. Like I said earlier in the thread, I remember being at my friend's house in the La Quinta cove on an early morning and he had ICECLES hanging from his roof.

So what do you guys think its the main factor for why cocos are growing here in the Desert. IMO - the heat, the heat early in the morning after a cold night, the rocky sandy soil that provides for excellent drainage, and our semi dry winters. And in the end a good caretaker to give it some love.

Think you nailed it Dan, esp. providing some extra love. Thinking the Newport Coco may have continued living provided more of it.

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Danilopez89

More pics of the fruit...post-9726-0-30880500-1433649707_thumb.jppost-9726-0-55449600-1433649725_thumb.jp

I was wondering how far along these look to be? And will the fruit that is still on the tree continue to mature? Do cocos cross pollinate with other palms easily? I know of a few "palmy" houses in the area with many different palm trees.

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Zeeth

More pics of the fruit...attachicon.gifIMG_20150606_52783.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_20150606_59813.jpg

I was wondering how far along these look to be? And will the fruit that is still on the tree continue to mature? Do cocos cross pollinate with other palms easily? I know of a few "palmy" houses in the area with many different palm trees.

Those look like they're about 2-3 months along, and coconuts take 12-15 months to fully mature. I've heard that the past winter was very warm in Cali, which would explain why the coconuts actually developed this year. They don't cross pollinate with other palms at all (no one has been able to create a hybrid with a coconut that's been verified yet), but they can self pollinate if they need to. Dwarf types self-pollinate pretty easily, but tall types don't have a very good fruit set when they self-pollinate.

It must be the intense heat that allows these coconuts to grow so well. I've seen coconuts survive down to 27 F (with extensive damage), so as long as it heats up during the day, they can take down to freezing and still survive.

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JEFF IN MODESTO

Zoom in on that pic and you can clearly see a small coconut growing up there.

post-116-0-50733700-1433688531_thumb.jpg

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Josh-O

Even though both the LQ and PD cocos aren't located on the valley floor where they would experience the coldest temps, they still do get freezing temps. Like I said earlier in the thread, I remember being at my friend's house in the La Quinta cove on an early morning and he had ICECLES hanging from his roof.

So what do you guys think its the main factor for why cocos are growing here in the Desert. IMO - the heat, the heat early in the morning after a cold night, the rocky sandy soil that provides for excellent drainage, and our semi dry winters. And in the end a good caretaker to give it some love.

Think you nailed it Dan, esp. providing some extra love. Thinking the Newport Coco may have continued living provided more of it.

agreed

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Danilopez89

Zoom in on that pic and you can clearly see a small coconut growing up there.

Yeah Jeff. There was plenty up there. My uploads aren't as clear as my original pictures but I think you can still see them pretty good.

post-9726-0-21635500-1433691015_thumb.jppost-9726-0-12012400-1433691043_thumb.jp

There was a bunch of these too.

post-9726-0-55368400-1433691130_thumb.jppost-9726-0-24577300-1433691229_thumb.jp

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Danilopez89

So if all of that is true, we can say from today that coconuts aren't as weak as we thought...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Quinta,_California#Climate

6.8ºC lows on December, 7ºC lows on January, 8.9ºC lows on February... and record lows of -11ºC, -8ºC and -7ºC, so freezes appear that aren't rare.

The day highs are extremely high, (July 41.8ºC :bemused: ) and extremely dry, which is also an non good factor for the coconut. But the lows during winter are very low for a coconut...

I do believe you. Why you would lie in all of that. It's sure that those coconuts have some special carings, were protected when they were younger and also they are in a good microclimate... but I still can't figure myself how it grows with those winter lows and also with the extremely hot and dry summers. SO La Quinta, Ca at 33º 40'N has the NORTHERNMOST coconut ! :greenthumb:

post-9726-0-13232300-1433694947_thumb.jp

Hmmm.... maybe it's the +90f days we usually get in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, ect.

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Danilopez89

More pics of the fruit...attachicon.gifIMG_20150606_52783.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_20150606_59813.jpg

I was wondering how far along these look to be? And will the fruit that is still on the tree continue to mature? Do cocos cross pollinate with other palms easily? I know of a few "palmy" houses in the area with many different palm trees.

Those look like they're about 2-3 months along, and coconuts take 12-15 months to fully mature. I've heard that the past winter was very warm in Cali, which would explain why the coconuts actually developed this year. They don't cross pollinate with other palms at all (no one has been able to create a hybrid with a coconut that's been verified yet), but they can self pollinate if they need to. Dwarf types self-pollinate pretty easily, but tall types don't have a very good fruit set when they self-pollinate.

It must be the intense heat that allows these coconuts to grow so well. I've seen coconuts survive down to 27 F (with extensive damage), so as long as it heats up during the day, they can take down to freezing and still survive.

Wow that fruit takes a long time! So would they need 2 perfect winters back to back to make good cocos?

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Stevetoad

I'm 100% sure this is a true story. I've been to that area a bunch of times and like others have said Google street view also proves it. Good plan spotting to Dan! I only slightly feel bad for the home owners as now there will be a pilgrimage to this holy land to lay eyes on the legends.

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Danilopez89

I'm 100% sure this is a true story. I've been to that area a bunch of times and like others have said Google street view also proves it. Good plan spotting to Dan! I only slightly feel bad for the home owners as now there will be a pilgrimage to this holy land to lay eyes on the legends.

Hahaha lol!

I feel sorry for the owners who took care of the coconut tree for so long. Looks like it was the first time it made actual fruit. I wonder if they even know it?

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Sandy Loam

The numbers say it all.

Looking at some of the stats, the 'Legend of Syagrus AbreOjos" topic, which surfaced again this week has managed over 10,000 views - after 7 years.

This topic has managed over half that (5,600) - in 7 days.

________________________

I am amazed by how much interest this has generated. I must admit that I am a bit surprised though. Southern California, at least from LA down to San Diego, is a place which has so many exotic types of palm trees everywhere, many of which I cannot grow in northern Florida. It doesn't have coconuts (with a few exceptions), but it has almost everything else. I guess the coconut is the holy grail of palm trees, which is why this story has fascinated everyone.

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JEFF IN MODESTO

Thing about the Newport Beach micro climate, people forget that while it may not freeze, it's Chilly there about 60 percent of the time.

Not so in Palm Springs area....

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JEFF IN MODESTO

I also believe that you can grow coconuts in Death Valley , which is far north as Fresno / Santa Cruz in central , ca.

The valley floor gets a just few days of frost, but the mountains surrounding has excellent cold air drainage.

I talked to a park ranger/ climatologist during a visit there about 20 years ago .

He said that there is a " banana belt " just off the valley floor to an elevation of 1000 ft above sea level where the average winter lows rarely get below 50f and summer high temps are about 10 degrees cooler than the valley floor.

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ando.wsu

Has it been determined if it is a Tall or dwarf variety if it's even possible with pics?

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WestCoastGal

Very interesting thread, photos and videos. Thanks. So have property values around there suddenly jumped?!

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Alicante

Proeza if you find a protected spot, protected by walls (similar to the Palm Desert example here or La Quinta House) and facing south with a well drained soil (I recommend black sand.. will keep it warmer and is rich) I am sure you might be able to get it to work. Being in Continental Spain it will be harder for you to get a more mature one (which is probably easier to get in CA), so try to get one tall type and during the first 2 or three winters bring it home if the weather gets too extreme. Finally plant it on the ground and take good care of it:).

That does not mean they can grow in your location, but you have a good climate already, maybe with a little tinkering it will create a micro-climate that is enough to sustain a coconut in your protected spot. The same applies to CA really, you will probably not see them in less protected public places, but some people are managing to grow them in their spots successfully. You do have colder high temperatures during the coldest month (but not that much lower), but have higher lows and no frost ever, so give it a try. Stelios is a good example of how changing your spot makes all the difference.

Yes you are right. I can try doing it. If grows in Newport... and Newport area get way colder summer than my area, and that is an important factor for the coconuts... they love the tropical summer heat, Newport average temperature ranges in summer are from 22 to 24 and from 17 to 19: according to Newport's climate chart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport_Beach,_California#Climate Here it's from 28 to almost 33 and from 18 to 22...

2guik9d.jpg

This is the climate chart of my zone. Maybe it will be worth trying it... who knows... maybe even from a sprout. If i take good care of it... but the problems are that where can I find a coconut sprout in Europe ¿? :floor:

PS: The lowest recorded temperature ever was in the worst cold wave of Spain which occured half a century ago, it arrived to -3ºC because that's the mark of the closest station and this zone is the mildest in all the Valencian Community, during cold waves when is 2ºC in Valencia city, there is always 3-4ºC in Alicante city and 5-6ºC in my zone. I've never seen temps below the freezing mark and the haridness zone is 10b but at the limit of 11a.

Ah yes I've forgot to say that those maximum recordings are wrong! In May 2015 we arrived to 41ºC one day so I'll have to change it :greenthumb:

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Zeeth

If you aren't able to find a coconut sprout in your area, you might be able to try sprouting one from a local supermarket. I tried it a year ago for fun from this video and both sprouted and are growing very well now. I tried again last winter with no success though, so I think it might be something reserved for when outside temperatures are relatively warm.

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Stevetoad

I think the obsession with the humble coconut palm is that it's probably the palm that got most of us into palms. You travel somewhere tropical and see those beauties swaying in the warm breeze and you want to create that same feeling at home. I know that was a major influence on me.

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Cluster

Problem with dehusked coconuts is that they are very weak, but if you can keep them till they grow a having the husk makes no difference anymore than it should be as good as any. The Gandia Temperatures are based on a wunderground station so probably a bit warmer than the official station and based on the last 3 years or so:). Still I believe your temperatures are really very high and with proper care this will work! Why don't you try to get coconuts from the Canaries? Should be possible with you being in Spain and importing from Spanish islands:P

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Cluster

I think the obsession with the humble coconut palm is that it's probably the palm that got most of us into palms. You travel somewhere tropical and see those beauties swaying in the warm breeze and you want to create that same feeling at home. I know that was a major influence on me.

Besides that and this is my humble opinion, a good coconut growing in a tropical place is unmatched. It is also the most important palm in the world, the amount of things they can give us, there is nothing that is a waste in a coconut palm. The other reason they keep us interested is how varied they can be, Fiji Dwarf, Golden/Green/Yellow malayan, Maypan, Maypan with yellow petioles, Red/yellow spicatta, Tall types, like the Jamaican and Panama and many more growing in other countries like India we have no clue about, different color of the leaves, length of the leaves, type of trunk (bole how easy it leans etc), amount of leaves, self pollinating or not. It can even drink salt water and inspire songs:). Heck even the fruits have such different shapes/sizes/flavors and colors.

Edited by Cluster

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Sandy Loam

I think the obsession with the humble coconut palm is that it's probably the palm that got most of us into palms. You travel somewhere tropical and see those beauties swaying in the warm breeze and you want to create that same feeling at home. I know that was a major influence on me.

________________________________

This seems to be the perception in places where coconuts are not common, including where I live. Yet when you go to places where coconuts are abundant, they are perceived as weeds. You will hear people from Queensland complaining that the coconuts are so vigorous along certain beaches that they are crowding out the native trees. Even from Miami south into the Florida Keys, some people seem to regard the coconut trees as weeds because they are everywhere and keep dropping "babies" all around.

Anyway, I love coconuts and share your perspective, perhaps because I cannot grow them in my region. No doubt, there certainly is a lot of interest in all varieties of coconuts on this forum.

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_Keith

I think the obsession with the humble coconut palm is that it's probably the palm that got most of us into palms. You travel somewhere tropical and see those beauties swaying in the warm breeze and you want to create that same feeling at home. I know that was a major influence on me.

Yep.

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Hammer

I think the obsession with the humble coconut palm is that it's probably the palm that got most of us into palms. You travel somewhere tropical and see those beauties swaying in the warm breeze and you want to create that same feeling at home. I know that was a major influence on me.

Exactly the case with me too.

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Lior_Gal

I think the obsession with the humble coconut palm is that it's probably the palm that got most of us into palms. You travel somewhere tropical and see those beauties swaying in the warm breeze and you want to create that same feeling at home. I know that was a major influence on me.

Exactly, I coulnd't find better words to describe it ....

P.S.

Since Some of you started to discuss how to sprout home made Coco's Baught on the Store

(The video that tells how to do it is very popular on YouTube)... I want to ask you guys what

you think about this Funny Dude's Advice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXTurX6PCGI

He Said on his video, That Coconut Palms love Sea water (Salty water ?) and giving them

sea water makes their growth rate faster, Is it true ? I know that Coco Palms Originally sprout

on the seashore really close or in the water line....and the root system can handle with salty

water, But is it better for them ?...

Thanks ahead for the answer.

Lior.

Edited by Lior_Gal

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Jeff Searle

I just saw this topic this morning for the first time. Sad on my part, but hey, coconuts exactly don't excite me much these days. But...I was amazed on how many replies this topic got and in just one week!. So, I apologize for NOT reading every post, BUT was it established yet that this tree is actually growing in the ground and not in some pot? Just a "left field" thought....

  • Upvote 1

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Zeeth

Problem with dehusked coconuts is that they are very weak, but if you can keep them till they grow a having the husk makes no difference anymore than it should be as good as any.

This is true. The coconut must be protected from the sun for at least the first year. I piled sphagnum moss onto the coconut from mine to mimic the husk, and they have done well. I've seen reports where people don't protect the coconut, and it pops open and the plant dies, so this is important.

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Danilopez89

Sooooo, can we say that this is "a fruiting coconut palm tree in Southern California"? Or do we have to wait until it makes mature fruits?

post-9726-0-36925200-1433782206_thumb.jppost-9726-0-30705100-1433782250_thumb.jppost-9726-0-42730100-1433782284_thumb.jppost-9726-0-95806500-1433782300_thumb.jp

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Walt

Well, it is of my opinion the owner of this palm planted it in the best place possible on his property for the below listed reasons:

1. It's on a total south exposure, thereby getting the most direct sun during the winter months (most critical time of the year in terms of this palm's survival).

2. The palm is surrounded by concrete walkways acting as a heat sink to absorb the sun's radiant heat so as to re release the heat at night.

3. The palm is sheltered by the house and garage structure on its west, north, and east sides (at least when it was smaller). And to a lesser extent, the palm will get some escaping nighttime heat from the house itself during the winter months.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.703988,-116.385016,3a,69y,354.02h,96.87t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sGTCjV-4LXAIFouIEvWBeeQ!2e0!6m1!1e1

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trioderob

can one of you guys give me a 3 sentence summary of what happened here.

was on Vacation - came back and there are 400 replies to a Cali COCO thread

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JEFF IN MODESTO

Just checking microclimates on weather underground-wundermap.

On the foothills outside palm desert, the low temps are consistently above 60f this past jan. High temps reflect much of the area, but with good drainage, cold air drains downslope at night.

station off stone eagle drive was exceptionally warm.

http://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=KCAPALMD31#history/s20150101/e20150131/mmonth

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