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Danilopez89

Is this a coconut or am I dreaming?

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Moose

Pinch me!

Daniel - if this is a Coconut, then the owner would most likely appreciate talking with someone who knows palms and acknowledges this accomplishment. Leave a note with your number. If you are afforded an opportunity for a closer look, it appears healthy enough you may find evidence of its attempt to bloom.

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Moose

I knocked on the door. The man told me he unlocked the secret to growing Cocos in Southern California. He said it also fruits...

Ooops - this is what happens when you post before reading the entire thread ... :blush2:

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Josh-O

I have a feeling this thread is going to go on for a looooong time. Cocos in CA...the great debate.

Well it could end if Danil would just knock on the dudes door.

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Josh-O

I knocked on the door. The man told me he unlocked the secret to growing Cocos in Southern California. He said it also fruits...

Ooops - this is what happens when you post before reading the entire thread ... :blush2:

Lol......!

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Panamajack

One thing to remember, that unlike the Newport coconut which struggled because of lower coastal temperatures, a coconut planted in the Coachella Valley (where La Quinta and Palm Springs are located) is much warmer, thus making the palm grow faster and stronger (with proper irrigation, obviously). My in-laws live in Palm Desert, I have spent lotsa time around Xmas there and days in late December are always pleasant and sunny, definitely warm enough to wear shorts. At night it does cool down but it's never too cold. I think a coconut could definitely live there but it will need LOTS of water during the insane summer months from April to September, and even during part of the winter.

Looks like a really nice specimen.

Hope has been restored once again.

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DoomsDave

So, Mr. Lopez, what did the owner say?

Oh, the IRONY, a coco growing in the desert. At least to "normal" people.

They do grow in Arabia. Near the sea. Enough water, heat, well, maybe not so bad.

Looks like a cocos to me.

I'm sure Mr. Lopez will provide a riveting further tale . . . .

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_Keith

The owner said he unlocked the secret, and if he told then it wouldn't be a secret, now would it.

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Cluster

I still think one growing unprotected outside the micro-climate of a protected house would eventually die. All stations I have seen in that area have record lows of 19 f or less, (La Quinta having 17) and all of them have had highs below 50 f in very rare occasions. So if a coconut can survive a night of 25 f or less and a high around 50 f the next day (granted this will happen once in a blue moon but even this year there were 3 days or so below freezing temperatures with highs around 55-60), then it seems they are more resistant than previously thought. I would believe the night alone with such cold temperature would kill it even if the next day there is 90 f :). For the time being my theory is that the coconut is helped either by the pool, the supposedly micro climate that those walls are giving it or a combination of these and other factors that could aid in extreme cold weather.

Edited by Cluster

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Jim in Los Altos

I still think one growing unprotected outside the micro-climate of a protected house would eventually die. All stations I have seen in that area have record lows of 19 f or less, (La Quinta having 17) and all of them have had highs below 50 f in very rare occasions. So if a coconut can survive a night of 25 f or less and a high around 50 f the next day (granted this will happen once in a blue moon but even this year there were 3 days or so below freezing temperatures with highs around 55-60), then it seems they are more resistant than previously thought. I would believe the night alone with such cold temperature would kill it even if the next day there is 90 f :). For the time being my theory is that the coconut is helped either by the pool, the supposedly micro climate that those walls are giving it or a combination of these and other factors that could aid in extreme cold weather.

Those record lows were all recorded in the 1930s. It's much more built up now and has that heat island thing gong on now. With all the microclimates in the area, there are undoubtedly plenty of warmer areas suited to growing Cocos and, as. Gary said, there are more than a few Coconuts growing in the southern deserts.

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Sandy Loam

Heat all winter is likely not the problem. It is the overnight lows temperatures in January and supplemental irrigation (I am sure that the home owner is adding plenty of water).

I also just checked the climate in LaQuinta, California. The record coldest temperature ever recorded since some time in the 1800s is very cold, but the average temperatures for January (the coldest month of the year) are:

LOW: 44.6 Fahrenheit (7 degrees celcius)

HIGH: 72 Fahrenheit (22.2 degrees celcius)

I don't live there, but have been to the region (Coachella Vally and Palm Springs) a couple of times in the middle of "winter". The mercury is like a yo-yo from day to night. Once in January, I landed at Los Angeles airport (LAX) at midnight and the temperature was 62 or 65 degrees fahrenheit. I drove the 3 hours to Palm Springs and arrived there in the middle of the night. It was 39 degrees at 3:00 am! (while it was 62 F in Los Angeles at the same time) Everyone kept telling me that 39 was unseasonally cold, but by 10:30 or 11:00 am the next morning, the temperature was already back up to 75 Fahrenheit again (24 degres Celcius) and people were sitting around the swimming pool in the hot sun. What a yo-yo climate in that region! ....up and down, up and down...

Edited by Sandy Loam

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mnorell

The average temperature for this date (31 May) at Newport Beach Harbor is 58F/67F (period of record data from 1934-2005, per the Western Regional Climate Center).
Right now (9pm California time) it is 61F at the Newport Beach Pier (per Wunderground/Wundermap).

The average temperature for this date (31 May) at Indio (closest station with any good data-set) is 67F/97F (period of record data from 1894-2015, per the Western Regional Climate Center).
Right now (9pm California time) it is 91F at La Quinta (per Wunderground/Wundermap)

The continually cool temperatures--exacerbated by the chilly, "May grey, June gloom" springs--along the California coastal strip are what thwart the long-term metabolic needs of Cocos there. The relatively frostless areas in California's areas of the Sonora Desert (basically the Coachella and Imperial Valleys), on the other hand, have a relatively brief--if still chilly--winter, but the spring is warm to hot, and thus a coconut has a good chance to pull itself out of its "metabolic chill" quickly and thus can keep a pretty full crown of leaves each year. Also I believe there has been a good run of warm winters in the Coachella Valley and that may--in addition to the building/wall/concrete/pool temperature-bumps noted by others above--explain why this one has been able to thrive for several years now without tanking in a freeze. I think this one looks pretty nice indeed. That is a great find!

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Cluster

This is the first time I have heard about them growing in the desert areas of CA, I did hear about some in Texas, however. Anyway like I said previously even during this year there were 3 days below freezing, I gave the 25 f example to account for the heat island effect (and global warming?) and not something that will probably ever happen again like 19 f:). The record low high for Palm Springs is 38 f, but I am speaking about values around 50 f for the same reasons (trying to be realistic :) ) During this year there were values of highs not so far off from the 50 f.

Not saying it is impossible just looks so off considering all I have been reading on the forums about coconuts hardiness, coconuts that died with lows way less dangerous than those in La Quinta, even having highs on the next day not below 50 f. You see many stories like this in Florida. Hence I try to come with possible explanations. Once the truth is learned then I will not even debate it anymore, but for the time being it seems unlikely to me without the aid of man (besides the water that is:) ). Having said that, this kind of weather would not be fatal every year, we just know it has happened, maybe it is only every 10 years, maybe once every 20 years. Like some zones in Texas where people preview coconuts would live for 10 or so years.

Edited by Cluster

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Xenon

Here are some golden malayans in snow~post-4112-0-80521400-1433135827_thumb.jp

These coconuts also survived an afternoon high of 32F!

Edited by Xenon

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Cluster

Would be nice to see natural growing coconuts (not counting the water requirements), in desert CA, documented. The Newport has been the only one really documented as far as I know in CA, I imagine a news like this would be very talked on the forums as CA and coconuts have been a classic. I believe this new thread is documenting the first one, will be interesting to know the full story and how the owner managed it.

PS:Can't find a single entry on google regarding coconuts in CA Desert/ Coachella Valley, besides this thread:(

Edited by Cluster

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LJG

Is this why you see groves of them in Coachella Valley? I think we should ask the guy the details before we start discussing "metabolic chill".

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mnorell

The average temperature for this date (31 May) at Newport Beach Harbor is 58F/67F (period of record data from 1934-2005, per the Western Regional Climate Center).

Right now (9pm California time) it is 61F at the Newport Beach Pier (per Wunderground/Wundermap).

The average temperature for this date (31 May) at Indio (closest station with any good data-set) is 67F/97F (period of record data from 1894-2015, per the Western Regional Climate Center).

Right now (9pm California time) it is 91F at La Quinta (per Wunderground/Wundermap)

The continually cool temperatures--exacerbated by the chilly, "May grey, June gloom" springs--along the California coastal strip are what thwart the long-term metabolic needs of Cocos there. The relatively frostless areas in California's areas of the Sonora Desert (basically the Coachella and Imperial Valleys), on the other hand, have a relatively brief--if still chilly--winter, but the spring is warm to hot, and thus a coconut has a good chance to pull itself out of its "metabolic chill" quickly and thus can keep a pretty full crown of leaves each year. Also I believe there has been a good run of warm winters in the Coachella Valley and that may--in addition to the building/wall/concrete/pool temperature-bumps noted by others above--explain why this one has been able to thrive for several years now without tanking in a freeze. I think this one looks pretty nice indeed. That is a great find!

Is this why you see groves of them in Coachella Valley? I think we should ask the guy the details before we start discussing "metabolic chill".

Well I certainly don't think you're going to be seeing any groves of them in the Coachella Valley anytime soon. LOL. But at least one would stand a chance at looking good between the coldest winters with that long warm/hot season and in a winter-modified spot such as this one. I wonder if any of those leaves burn as the summer gets into high gear considering the punishing heat in the summer there. Something tells me there are some others that may be hiding behind other people's walls out there as well...

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Stevetoad

From the picture it looks like you can see dead flower spaths. As far as the climate there I think the gigantic plumerias in front of it show that he stays pretty warm all year.

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sur4z

It certainly looks like a cocos to me; but has anyone considered that it might be a Parajubaea torallyi?

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Jim in Los Altos

It certainly looks like a cocos to me; but has anyone considered that it might be a Parajubaea torallyi?

Not Parajubaea. That kind of heat and warm to hot summer evenings would mean an early death. It looks much more like Cocos than Parajubaea anyhow. If you've been around a lot of Parajubaea, I'm sure you'd know what I mean.

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Alicehunter2000

Aside from this guy, has anyone tried growing them on a little island in the middle of a (heated) swimming pool. Florida has plenty of hotels that have "Lazy Rivers" "poolside flowerbeds" and even little islands. I was thinking that if the pool was heated, and the palm was planted on a little island, the root zone would be warmer and the air would be more humid. When its cold outside..... Heat rises.....

It sounds like this scenario is possibly the "Secret"

Jim, you should put a little island in your "pool" ....is it heated?

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DoomsDave

Is this why you see groves of them in Coachella Valley? I think we should ask the guy the details before we start discussing "metabolic chill".

Hmm.

If word gets around, more people might try some out there in the desert. As long as they can afford the water bill. Or have a natural water seep.

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John Case

I cold call knock on doors a lot; only once many years ago I was bitten by a dog (my fault). Most people are glad to see you, believe it or not. The worst thing that will happen is you will have the door shut in your face. I will bet 5 cents that the person there shares you appreciation of palms and would allow you to see it up close and personal.....

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mnorell

Another thing to notice is that this spot looks to have very good cold-air drainage. It is at about 180' elevation and on a nice slope (roughly a 4% grade according to the USGS map) and thus it would be markedly warmer than the valley floor on winter mornings. Those east-facing, air-drained slopes are typically where successfully growing and flowering Delonix have been planted in the past as well (and as Stevetoad noted above, the Plumeria are a good indicator of that).

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nachocarl

Resembles a Coco-queen hybrid, but the two "emerging" fronds appear to be opening at the same time which queens don't usually do and the one frond has kind of a twist which queens don't do. :hmm:

Edited by nachocarl

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Cluster

Looking at some data from Coachella Valley, the upper valley has a record low of 19 f while the lower valley station reached 13 f. There is a big difference between the two stations, 6 f!, still the upper is way too cold. I would bet if one seedling of a coconut was planted in a park outside (where it can get the necessary water) it would probably not be there after the first or 2nd decade to tell us its story. Whatever the owner managed there is/seems to be an amazing feet and if I was his neighbor I would definitely ask for advice and try one myself, who does not love cocos especially if they can look nice which this one does!

Edited by Cluster

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Danilopez89

Another thing to notice is that this spot looks to have very good cold-air drainage. It is at about 180' elevation and on a nice slope (roughly a 4% grade according to the USGS map) and thus it would be markedly warmer than the valley floor on winter mornings. Those east-facing, air-drained slopes are typically where successfully growing and flowering Delonix have been planted in the past as well (and as Stevetoad noted above, the Plumeria are a good indicator of that).

This sounds like what I'm trying to say earlier on this thread. The Coco is in a really nice microclimate. And by the way there's Delonix trees growing throughout the Valley. I've seen a couple of big ones but most are smaller, maybe no more than 10 years old. Here's one from Allen Valley's house. I snapped this pic right now...post-9726-0-97082200-1433193225_thumb.jp

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mnorell

Daniel, do you have an estimate on how much the elevation on that Cocos location might buy in terms of degrees F over the floor of the valley on a winter morning? Also do you think you could estimate how many freezes (and how severe) there have been in the area in the last 5-10 years? Certainly Delonix is a pretty good indicator of a pretty frost-free location, and I know they're sold regularly around the Palm Springs/Rancho Mirage area (I've seen them for sale at nurseries there in the last decade), but their fast growth in a hot climate can be deceptive and a big flowering specimen with significant trunk can be just a few years in the ground out of a five-gallon can with irrigation or tapping into groundwater sources. Big Plumeria trees may be a better long-term indicator. I'm wondering if this may represent a warm-streak there, or if perhaps also the intense development of the area has created a heat-island effect and the cold winters of the past are now blunted somewhat by an asphalt jungle of sorts? BTW those are some beautiful blooms on that Brahea.

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Cluster

The heat island effect is probably happening but regardless Delonix are tougher than one may expect, especially if they have some size already. I have read stories of some surviving 23 f, as it was for a brief period of time. There are Delonix in coastal CA that are blooming well. As for the difference in temperatures regarding different elevations in the valley, I think this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coachella_Valley#Geography_and_Climate shows clearly that there are differences. The lower valley might have higher highs and mean temperatures but their lows are more extreme as well.

Edited by Cluster

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LJG

The heat island effect is probably happening but regardless Delonix are tougher than one may expect, especially if they have some size already. I have read stories of some surviving 23 f, as it was for a brief period of time. There are Delonix in coastal CA that are blooming well. As for the difference in temperatures regarding different elevations in the valley, I think this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coachella_Valley#Geography_and_Climate shows clearly that there are differences. The lower valley might have higher highs and mean temperatures but their lows are more extreme as well.

I agree. Delonix and Plumeria are not indicators if a Coconut can grow in an area.

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Tyrone

A good indicator of whether a coconut has a chance of surviving in a certain area is whether the lowest average winter maximums are 20C (68F) or above. If a coconut can get to that figure pretty much every day of the year, it's likely to survive, provided it doesn't get too cold ie below 2C (35F).

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Coconutman

100+ replies in just 3 days! Guess that I was late to the party!

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Danilopez89

haha so how many think it has a good chance of fruiting? lol

Just left from Greg's house...post-9726-0-31607600-1433204815_thumb.jp

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empireo22

yeah that's a nice coco and plumeria!

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Cluster

Tell us more details Daniel:D nice plumeria and coco.

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Zeeth

Pretty cool. I wonder what his watering schedule is. It's also interesting that the old leaf bases haven't fallen off.

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Cluster

Says the video is private :)

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Danilopez89

Says the video is private :)

I'm trying to figure out how to fix that. Anyone know how?

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Cluster

I have never uploaded an youtube video and studying for an exam otherwise I would help you out:(

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