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Danilopez89

Is this a coconut or am I dreaming?

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Danilopez89

Yes very often the official weather stations are cooler than residential places, still 19 f is way too cold. I browsed for the amateur weather stations on wunderground (as in, in the city and most likely not reliable) in Palm springs and even in 2015 they had like 3 or so days in a row with temperatures below freezing (reaching a year low of 30-27 f!) with daily highs of 55-60 f. In a more extreme year it will be more severe, not even reaching 50 F during the day. If a coconut can withstand this totally exposed I am surprised, but great for them otherwise (at least I would be happy to have one coconut!)

In this valley there are many microclimates. It varies from city to city. It can vary by a lot from one side of town to the other. Also those temps for the winter highs are very low. (50 F)! It's rare when its that cold here during the day.

My theory is that coconut palms have a higher chance to make it here because we have 85 F+ in the middle of winter. The cold doesn't last long here. Remember that this is where northerners come to have "summer in December".

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Cluster

The pool theory and especially if it is heated during the winter does explain things, among many other things that we can think of that warm all the area and/or ground. From what I have gathered even fountains can freeze in Palm Springs.

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Pando

This thing looks pretty happy over there, it will probably start fruiting soon. :)

Then again, when the crown gets higher above the walls, it'll be more and more exposed to cold.

This is a great experiment though - is the palm more susceptible to temperature of the soil, or of the crown where the growing point is... ?

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Danilopez89

Looks like it's clearly taking advantage of the local microclimate - enclosed stone block walls and planted right next to a south-facing wall. It's getting plenty of heat and is protected from cold winds. The soil temps are probably way higher in the enclosed space than anywhere around. Being in the desert, very little cloud cover in winter means the block wall warms everything up nicely.

It's definitely not a recent transplant - Google Street view shows it there in 2012, and I think it's also visible in 2007/2008 images although those are too blurry to see with certainty.

Wow! How did you find it? I never gave you the street name.lol! Can you post a pic of the surrounding area? Maybe it can show how much of a microclimate this thing is in. This is in La Quinta Cove. A small residential community surrounded by mountains. Across the street from this house there is yet another smaller mountain that provides it with even more protection. Another thing I should point out is that this house is on top of the "cove". If you're standing in the front yard you look down towards the northeast of the valley. Its a pretty big cold drop!

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Cluster

Yes very often the official weather stations are cooler than residential places, still 19 f is way too cold. I browsed for the amateur weather stations on wunderground (as in, in the city and most likely not reliable) in Palm springs and even in 2015 they had like 3 or so days in a row with temperatures below freezing (reaching a year low of 30-27 f!) with daily highs of 55-60 f. In a more extreme year it will be more severe, not even reaching 50 F during the day. If a coconut can withstand this totally exposed I am surprised, but great for them otherwise (at least I would be happy to have one coconut!)

In this valley there are many microclimates. It varies from city to city. It can vary by a lot from one side of town to the other. Also those temps for the winter highs are very low. (50 F)! It's rare when its that cold here during the day.

My theory is that coconut palms have a higher chance to make it here because we have 85 F+ in the middle of winter. The cold doesn't last long here. Remember that this is where northerners come to have "summer in December".

Yes I understand it is rare, it did not happened this year this year the weather stations were around 55-60 during the 3/4 consecutive days or so in January when the low temperatures were below freezing reaching 30-27f (depending on the weather station). In a normal situation (as in palms not protected somehow with a micro-climate) the coconut would have died during those days, just too cold. This was just 2015, there are years where more severe cold (both in highs and lows) has striked in the past, which makes the feat even less possible.

The only explanation is the micro-climate itself, outside it would have died in my opinion, because it would have to endure 3 or 4 days in a row with below freezing temperature during the night and highs of 55 f -60 f, in an extreme year it would barely reach 50 f during the day, most likelly, while the freezing temperatures would be even lower. I did not browse all the weather stations of course but all registered very low highs and lows in the first days of January.

Edited by Cluster

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Pando
Wow! How did you find it? I never gave you the street name.lol! Can you post a pic of the surrounding area? Maybe it can show how much of a microclimate this thing is in. This is in La Quinta Cove. A small residential community surrounded by mountains. Across the street from this house there is yet another smaller mountain that provides it with even more protection. Another thing I should point out is that this house is on top of the "cove". If you're standing in the front yard you look down towards the northeast of the valley. Its a pretty big cold drop!

Took about 20 seconds since your original post clearly shows the street number. Google maps does the rest and there are only a few choices.

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Zeeth

I say it looks like a recent transplant because of the neatness of the crown and the overall shape of the leaves. There are lots of new houses coming up around here and lots of coconut transplants from farther south. Grove grown coconuts look different the first few years.

Also, look at the immediate right of the coconut (left of the queen palm), there's a dead palm stump. My theory is that the owner has some money to throw around and buys B&B coconut specimens from Florida (or Mexico) and replaces them when they die. I would love to be wrong though, so I think some door knocking is in order.

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Danilopez89

looks like a beccariophoenix.

maybe you can knock on the door. either way they are a palm collector or bought the home of a palm collector and would probably be happy to tell you the story.

Besides the coconut and unidentified palm behind it, all I see is a scraggly young queen palm on the property. Not exactly what makes for a palm "collector". La Quinta is near Palm Springs and nearly every home there has palms.

NEARLY EVERY HOME HERE HAS PALMS. Very true.

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Pando

I say it looks like a recent transplant because of the neatness of the crown and the overall shape of the leaves. There are lots of new houses coming up around here and lots of coconut transplants from farther south. Grove grown coconuts look different the first few years.

Also, look at the immediate right of the coconut (left of the queen palm), there's a dead palm stump. My theory is that the owner has some money to throw around and buys B&B coconut specimens from Florida (or Mexico) and replaces them when they die. I would love to be wrong though, so I think some door knocking is in order.

This is from Jan 2012. The Cocos is clearly there, and so is the queen.

Sorry Zeeth, you've been debunked. :mrlooney:

post-9935-0-26330000-1433098500_thumb.jp

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Danilopez89

I say it looks like a recent transplant because of the neatness of the crown and the overall shape of the leaves. There are lots of new houses coming up around here and lots of coconut transplants from farther south. Grove grown coconuts look different the first few years.

Also, look at the immediate right of the coconut (left of the queen palm), there's a dead palm stump. My theory is that the owner has some money to throw around and buys B&B coconut specimens from Florida (or Mexico) and replaces them when they die. I would love to be wrong though, so I think some door knocking is in order.

This is from Jan 2012. The Cocos is clearly there, and so is the queen.

Sorry Zeeth, you've been debunked. :mrlooney:

attachicon.gifLaQuintaCocos-Jan2012.jpg

Great picture! The shadows tell me its in the middle of winter. The fronds looks like they had some cold damage also.

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Danilopez89

I say it looks like a recent transplant because of the neatness of the crown and the overall shape of the leaves. There are lots of new houses coming up around here and lots of coconut transplants from farther south. Grove grown coconuts look different the first few years.

Also, look at the immediate right of the coconut (left of the queen palm), there's a dead palm stump. My theory is that the owner has some money to throw around and buys B&B coconut specimens from Florida (or Mexico) and replaces them when they die. I would love to be wrong though, so I think some door knocking is in order.

This is from Jan 2012. The Cocos is clearly there, and so is the queen.

Sorry Zeeth, you've been debunked. :mrlooney:

attachicon.gifLaQuintaCocos-Jan2012.jpg

Does anyone want to take a guess at the palm tree to the left of the mailbox. In the middle of the bushes.

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Pando
Maybe it can show how much of a microclimate this thing is in. This is in La Quinta Cove. A small residential community surrounded by mountains. Across the street from this house there is yet another smaller mountain that provides it with even more protection. Another thing I should point out is that this house is on top of the "cove". If you're standing in the front yard you look down towards the northeast of the valley. Its a pretty big cold drop!

This is a topo profile north-south across the area. La Quinta basically sits on a big alluvial fan from the San Jacinto mountains. The grid shows where the palm is, and the cold can sink further down into Palm Desert and the valley below. Yes - it's protected from the easterly winds by another mountain range.

North (left) to south:

post-9935-0-97339000-1433098974_thumb.jp

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Pando
Does anyone want to take a guess at the palm tree to the left of the mailbox. In the middle of the bushes.

Looks like a factory-default queen to me.

Edit: Oh, the small one right next to the mailbox? Looks to me like some clumping Caryota (urens/mitis).

Edited by Pando

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Danilopez89

It shows the house last sold in the 90's. Maybe the person who planted it might still live there. I will find out.

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Danilopez89

A few more shots of the surrounding area.

post-9726-0-00057600-1433100024_thumb.jppost-9726-0-41130300-1433100040_thumb.jppost-9726-0-95424000-1433100053_thumb.jppost-9726-0-92532100-1433100067_thumb.jppost-9726-0-62432900-1433100084_thumb.jppost-9726-0-71595600-1433100097_thumb.jp

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Silas_Sancona

Definitely a Coco.. and a nice specimen at that.

Taking a street view tour of the area, I see a ton of Bougainvillea, and lots of Queens.. There is also a house further up on another road with what look like Papayas and Bananas on the property.. Further up that street, there appears to be a house with what look to be some Bismarckia and a Triangle mixed in among other less common palms. If that area experienced even 20F on a regular basis during a given winter, I doubt most of the plant material I noted would be planted.

It is interesting how the idea of Coconuts being able to grow anywhere in the area is deemed "next to impossible" The same was once said of Royal Poinciana time and again yet I recall posts about sighted specimens in and around the valley. Also, have seen, among a few things id never expect, Brachychiton acerfolius, and Tipuana when passing through the area.

While freezes can occur, seems to me, Coconuts would fare well if positioned correctly to give the most optimum advantage.

-Nathan


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Danilopez89

Street view

post-9726-0-84704700-1433100405_thumb.jppost-9726-0-47352900-1433100421_thumb.jppost-9726-0-30163000-1433100437_thumb.jppost-9726-0-58005000-1433100477_thumb.jppost-9726-0-65581100-1433100493_thumb.jppost-9726-0-60257800-1433100508_thumb.jppost-9726-0-67585300-1433100522_thumb.jp

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Cluster

Bananas only live like 13 months so they can grow well most years. I believe the below freezing temperatures that are very low do not occur often or even occur in many years. The data, however, says it does occur in La Quinta, below 25 has occurred there and not just once, the amateur weather stations even reported a 28 f this year, similar values to the official station.

Edited by Cluster

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Danilopez89

Definitely a Coco.. and a nice specimen at that.

Taking a street view tour of the area, I see a ton of Bougainvillea, and lots of Queens.. There is also a house further up on another road with what look like Papayas and Bananas on the property.. Further up that street, there appears to be a house with what look to be some Bismarckia and a Triangle mixed in among other less common palms. If that area experienced even 20F on a regular basis during a given winter, I doubt most of the plant material I noted would be planted.

It is interesting how the idea of Coconuts being able to grow anywhere in the area is deemed "next to impossible" The same was once said of Royal Poinciana time and again yet I recall posts about sighted specimens in and around the valley. Also, have seen, among a few things id never expect, Brachychiton acerfolius, and Tipuana when passing through the area.

While freezes can occur, seems to me, Coconuts would fare well if positioned correctly to give the most optimum advantage.

-Nathan

Very right. If you guys can, take the google street view tour. It'll be fun. Maybe you guys can find the Royals down the street.

post-9726-0-94563000-1433100806_thumb.jp

There's also plenty houses with mango trees in the front yards.

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Alicehunter2000

J. caffra? ......a monster one that they cut all the suckers off.... just throwing that out there....lol

What was that movie about the kids that kept daring each other to get that baseball out of that guys yard....this kinda reminds me of that....knock on the door.....I double dog dare ya

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Danilopez89

Bananas only live like 13 months so they can grow well most years. I believe the below freezing temperatures are not that low often or even occur for the most years. The data says it does occur in La Quinta, below 28 f does seem to happen there and not just once in a while, the weather stations speak of it even the amateur.

There's no doubt we get freezing temps here every year. Mid 20's sounds normal for our winter lows actually. What happens here is that we can drop down to 28 F at night but can have a high of 90F the next day with temperatures rising quickly as the sun rises.

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Danilopez89

J. caffra? ......a monster one that they cut all the suckers off.... just throwing that out there....lol

What was that movie about the kids that kept daring each other to get that baseball out of that guys yard....this kinda reminds me of that....knock on the door.....I double dog dare ya

I think it gets to hot here for that one. I doubt it can handle 128 F.

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Silas_Sancona

.. Head to Avenida Marteniz for the Triangle and Bismarck(s?).. would hate having to trim those Bougainvillea, Ouch. Wish there was a more recent image to see how much growth has happened since 2012.

-Nathan

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Cluster

That is a very peculiar weather indeed:) Must be too hot for most folks actually.

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Danilopez89

.. Head to Avenida Marteniz for the Triangle and Bismarck(s?).. would hate having to trim those Bougainvillea, Ouch. Wish there was a more recent image to see how much growth has happened since 2012.

-Nathan

The pictures I first posted are from yesterday.

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Danilopez89

That is a very peculiar weather indeed:) Must be too hot for most folks actually.

The secret to living here is a nice AC.

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Pando

That is a very peculiar weather indeed:) Must be too hot for most folks actually.

The secret to living here is a nice AC.

...that's cranking all day and night long. I lived over the SJ mountains at the other side for many years. It's nice for snowbirds (old folk from Canada coming down every winter) but I'm never moving back there full time. Way too hot and dry (and dusty), and chilly in winter so it's almost never comfortable outside.

Edited by Pando

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Silas_Sancona

.. Head to Avenida Marteniz for the Triangle and Bismarck(s?).. would hate having to trim those Bougainvillea, Ouch. Wish there was a more recent image to see how much growth has happened since 2012.

-Nathan

The pictures I first posted are from yesterday.

Was referring to the other palms id found "street viewing" further up in the general neighborhood. Image date at that address is from back in 2012.

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US_Marine

haha so how many think it has a good chance of fruiting? lol

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Zeeth

I say it looks like a recent transplant because of the neatness of the crown and the overall shape of the leaves. There are lots of new houses coming up around here and lots of coconut transplants from farther south. Grove grown coconuts look different the first few years.

Also, look at the immediate right of the coconut (left of the queen palm), there's a dead palm stump. My theory is that the owner has some money to throw around and buys B&B coconut specimens from Florida (or Mexico) and replaces them when they die. I would love to be wrong though, so I think some door knocking is in order.

This is from Jan 2012. The Cocos is clearly there, and so is the queen.

Sorry Zeeth, you've been debunked. :mrlooney:

attachicon.gifLaQuintaCocos-Jan2012.jpg

Interesting, though it doesn't quite rule out the possibility of the owner replacing them when they die with mature specimens! It seems quite out of place there, that's for sure. It could be the real deal though! We've all heard of the Salton Sea coconuts.

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Josh-O

Maybe it's a Beccariophoenix

I agree, it does not look like a coconut to me.

  • Upvote 2

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Hammer

Maybe it's a Beccariophoenix

I agree, it does not look like a coconut to me.
From what I know of B. fenestralis (which isn't much), I would be more skeptical that it could survive in La Quinta than a Cocos. Particularly in summer.

Hard to tell, I was trying to use the gate as something to bring scale to the photo. The gate is probably 8 ft. tall at most. The palm's leaves don't seem to be of the monster size of most Beccariophoenix.

I suppose all this conjecture will be cleared up once the old knock on the door happens.

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Cluster

From what I have gathered cocos have even longer leaves than Beccariophoenix, at least the tall ones.

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Jim in Los Altos

I have a feeling this thread is going to go on for a looooong time. Cocos in CA...the great debate.

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Danilopez89

I knocked on the door. The man told me he unlocked the secret to growing Cocos in Southern California. He said it also fruits...

  • Upvote 1

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US_Marine

That's interesting. How long has it been there and how far along do they get?

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Hammer

I knocked on the door. The man told me he unlocked the secret to growing Cocos in Southern California. He said it also fruits...

Aaannnnnnd?!!! :)

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The7thLegend

I knocked on the door. The man told me he unlocked the secret to growing Cocos in Southern California. He said it also fruits...

Space heaters? lol I have a feeling it has 1-3 years tops as the crown rises above the roof it will take on more cold and dry heat.

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Cluster

I think Danilo was joking or he would have said more about it?:P

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Gtlevine

Coconuts grow in California deserts, this is not unusual. Even though winter nights get cold and frost, it can heat up to 80F by 8AM in the desert keeping soil temps high. I worked for a year and a half in palm desert and saw all kinds of tropical palms and trees growing. There is a huge Attaleas out there too.

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