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Eric in Orlando

Has anyone ever seen a taller Coccothrinax ?

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Eric in Orlando

Has any one every seen any Coccothrinax taller than this specimen? This Coccothrinax barbadensis is growing at the Kampong in Miami. It has emerged from the canopy and resembles a small scale Washingtonia from a distance. It is growing in front of the Fairchild's old house. This is the tallest I have ever encountered. It must be 40-50 feet tall.

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Eric in Orlando

In the back under a large Ficus subcordata that Fairchild planted in 1926 are multiple specimens of older Coccothrinax barbadensis

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Kostas

Awesome Eric, both the Coccothrinax and the Ficus!!! Thanks for sharing! :)

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Keith in SoJax

Certainly I haven't seen any taller, even while working at Fairchild back in the early '80s. But C. barbadensis is a fast grower (at least among Cocothrinax). So (especially) in the shelter of the other vegetation, I can see how it'd get so tall in 100 years. I love all the thatch palms, just wish they were a tad hardier. And "Barbie" nearly defoliates (in this case, i mean loses all but the 2 or 3 youngest fronds) for me every winter even though its never exposed to sub-freezing temps. Of course, I suppose its possible I have a cold-wimpy specimen.

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hbernstein

Montgomery Botanical Center has some at least as tall, if not taller. They're planted in full sun, which the species seems to appreciate. I wonder if they are from the same batch of seed as the one at the Kampong.

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Eric in Orlando

Certainly I haven't seen any taller, even while working at Fairchild back in the early '80s. But C. barbadensis is a fast grower (at least among Cocothrinax). So (especially) in the shelter of the other vegetation, I can see how it'd get so tall in 100 years. I love all the thatch palms, just wish they were a tad hardier. And "Barbie" nearly defoliates (in this case, i mean loses all but the 2 or 3 youngest fronds) for me every winter even though its never exposed to sub-freezing temps. Of course, I suppose its possible I have a cold-wimpy specimen.

Yours must have wimpy genetics! Are you growing it under any canopy? We have 2 here at Leu Gardens growing under high canopy. So they still get bright light/part sun but frost protection. One was planted in 1995 the other 2000. The oldest survived 26F in 1996 with severe foliage burn but it came right back. Both only suffered minor burn after the 2009-10 winter.

We also have a C. crinata x barbadensis. It was also planted in 1995 and only suffered minor damage in 1996 after 26F and no damage during 2009-10. This is a great hybrid. You get the shaggy trunk and hardiness of C. crinita but the much faster growth of C. barbadensis.

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Eric in Orlando

Montgomery Botanical Center has some at least as tall, if not taller. They're planted in full sun, which the species seems to appreciate. I wonder if they are from the same batch of seed as the one at the Kampong.

I'll have to look for those next time I am there. Dr. Schokman gave us a book he put together, "Plants of the Kampong". It has listings of all the plants growing there. Many have some history of when they were planted but no dates for this tall C. barbadensis.

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SubTropicRay

Libby Besse has some fairly tall specimens under canopy in Siesta Key. They're not quite as tall as The Kampong's but impressive for a central Florida location.

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Keith in SoJax

Certainly I haven't seen any taller, even while working at Fairchild back in the early '80s. But C. barbadensis is a fast grower (at least among Cocothrinax). So (especially) in the shelter of the other vegetation, I can see how it'd get so tall in 100 years. I love all the thatch palms, just wish they were a tad hardier. And "Barbie" nearly defoliates (in this case, i mean loses all but the 2 or 3 youngest fronds) for me every winter even though its never exposed to sub-freezing temps. Of course, I suppose its possible I have a cold-wimpy specimen.

Yours must have wimpy genetics! Are you growing it under any canopy? We have 2 here at Leu Gardens growing under high canopy. So they still get bright light/part sun but frost protection. One was planted in 1995 the other 2000. The oldest survived 26F in 1996 with severe foliage burn but it came right back. Both only suffered minor burn after the 2009-10 winter.

We also have a C. crinata x barbadensis. It was also planted in 1995 and only suffered minor damage in 1996 after 26F and no damage during 2009-10. This is a great hybrid. You get the shaggy trunk and hardiness of C. crinita but the much faster growth of C. barbadensis.

Eric, mine is in a pot. Its sitting in the lanai at the moment and comes in if we're expecting subfreezing temps. By the end of summer it very attractive, but by the end of winter, its just ugly. (this winter I have spider mites too....thats really helping!) Maybe it'd be better planted-in Key West. So far, we haven't had enough cold to kill the tomatoes this year and its still going downhill. Maybe I should donate it to Leu Gardens. :hmm:

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Jeff Searle

Your probably referring to palms in cultivation. And it's certainly the tallest that I have ever seen. But during the 2006 Biennial in the Dominican Republic, we saw taller ones along the coast. These were some monster C. boschiana, which looked to be every bit off a100' in height. Check out Palmarum's thread in the Biennial section, of which he has great pictures.

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Moose

Your probably referring to palms in cultivation. And it's certainly the tallest that I have ever seen. But during the 2006 Biennial in the Dominican Republic, we saw taller ones along the coast. These were some monster C. boschiana, which looked to be every bit off a100' in height. Check out Palmarum's thread in the Biennial section, of which he has great pictures.

That's my recollection Jeff. Also when visiting the Pseudophoenix eckmanii there were some ancient Coccothinax eckmanii that were really tall growing on pure limestone with very thin pliable trunks.

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Central Floridave

David Fairchild 1917 manuscript of southern trip. Page 33 mentions barbadensis on the kampong after a severe freeze. The whole manuscript is actually a good read.

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00003176/00001

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Central Floridave

Erick, fyi, page 203 of link above, Dr. Fairchild visits Orlando and Dr. Nehrlings place.

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edbrown_III

Eric,they have some really tall ones in USVI near Megans Bay and Mahogany Run St. Thomas --- no telling how old they are or their height --- we visited a friend once at Mahogany run and they had a beach house in the Mountain and long deck that went out straight --- It seemed pretty damn high and we looked up at them palms also, a large forest of the them on St John very tall all of them but this is quite a speciment and a credit to your photography

Best regards

Ed

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mnorell

We have some very tall Coccothrinax argentata down here in the Florida Keys. But they are very slow to put on height and so anything in that species that has a lot of height is quite old. People know of the tall specimens on the Silver Palm Trail at Bahia Honda State Park, but there are so many more lurking in less-touristy sites. We have many here on our property, some of which I'm sure (from published growth rates of this species) are 100-plus-year-old specimens. I'd say they are roughly 12 feet-plus and there are taller specimens all over these islands (my guess is that, conservatively, there are at least a hundred thousand of them on Big Pine Key alone). C. barbadensis is a fast grower so it makes sense they would get very tall...in fact due to the rapid grow-cycle it is basically the only Coccothrinax sold down here in most nurseries...always marketed as C. alta.

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edric

Thanks Eric, Ed

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Eric in Orlando

David Fairchild 1917 manuscript of southern trip. Page 33 mentions barbadensis on the kampong after a severe freeze. The whole manuscript is actually a good read.

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00003176/00001

Thanks for posting that link, what a valuable historical resource. I love the photos from Nehrling's place. I've done a lot of research into Nehrling but never seen the photos from his place taken by Fairchild.

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Central Floridave

I figured you would like that! You probably know that UCF library has all of Nehrling's writings and documents.

http://library.ucf.edu/SpecialCollections/FindingAids/Nehrling.xml

When I was reading Fairchild's manuscript and saw he visited Nehrling I thought of you!

Rhetorical: Would Nehrling and Fairchild be palmtalk.org junkies if it existed in their days? :P

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Eric in Orlando

I think Theodore Mead, Henry Sanford and Col. Montgomery would have been too!

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kwtimo

These aren't quite as tall, but they are at about the same height as the widow's peak. This is a 3 story house in Key West that is raised about 5 ft or so from the street. So I'm thinking they are pushing 35' to 40'. There is another grouping at a different property that I will check on, I remember them being rather tall too.post-7504-0-27866600-1422557991_thumb.jppost-7504-0-85405000-1422558007_thumb.jp

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DoomsDave

Hmm. Bet Paul Craft has seen bigger ones in habitat. But, I'll bet not that much bigger.

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aztropic

Dominican Republic

Coccothrinax boschiana

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

post-236-0-48797100-1422586111_thumb.jpg

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aztropic

Dominican Republic

Coccothrinax eckmanii behind Pseudophoenix eckmanii

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

post-236-0-86721000-1422587160_thumb.jpg

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aztropic

Both species made good mounts for TV antennas!

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

post-236-0-14473700-1422588135_thumb.jpg

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Eric in Orlando

These aren't quite as tall, but they are at about the same height as the widow's peak. This is a 3 story house in Key West that is raised about 5 ft or so from the street. So I'm thinking they are pushing 35' to 40'. There is another grouping at a different property that I will check on, I remember them being rather tall too. CAM00959.jpg CAM00958.jpg

Oooo that's the Albury House. My wife photographed it several years ago before it was restored.

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Eric in Orlando

Dominican Republic

Coccothrinax boschiana

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

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Eric in Orlando

Dominican Republic

Coccothrinax boschiana

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Such a cool view.

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mnorell

These aren't quite as tall, but they are at about the same height as the widow's peak. This is a 3 story house in Key West that is raised about 5 ft or so from the street. So I'm thinking they are pushing 35' to 40'. There is another grouping at a different property that I will check on, I remember them being rather tall too.attachicon.gifCAM00959.jpgattachicon.gifCAM00958.jpg

Thanks for posting those, Tim...and I agree in re your height estimate. It seems I am constantly walking past them and always in awe of their beauty. Do you know which species they are? And for anyone who's interested, they are at William and Southard. It's hard to miss that wonderful house and widow's walk, let alone the wonderful palms!

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Eric in Orlando

They look to be Thrinax radiata. There were lots of juveniles under the tall ones when she took the photos in 2010.

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Eric in Orlando

Here's a photo from 2010;

post-231-0-14876000-1422747842_thumb.jpg

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mnorell

Eric, I think at least a few of those in the big mass of tall specimens on the other side of the house (William St. side) are Coccothrinax, perhaps mixed with some Thrinax. It's a little difficult to tell because they are so tall and a bit wind-beaten, and they lack those characeristic Thrinax "beards," unlike the two you show above. I'll going to have to take a better look when I'm over in that area next.

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kwtimo

Definitely not Radiata. I can see the silver sheen on the undersides of the leavespost-7504-0-66233300-1422888150_thumb.jppost-7504-0-96207700-1422888168_thumb.jp

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Eric in Orlando

I think the photo Posted is from another side of the house. Those 2 palms are a different grouping from the others. I think the others are maybe C. argentata.

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Mandrew968

Your probably referring to palms in cultivation. And it's certainly the tallest that I have ever seen. But during the 2006 Biennial in the Dominican Republic, we saw taller ones along the coast. These were some monster C. boschiana, which looked to be every bit off a100' in height. Check out Palmarum's thread in the Biennial section, of which he has great pictures.

That's my recollection Jeff. Also when visiting the Pseudophoenix eckmanii there were some ancient Coccothinax eckmanii that were really tall growing on pure limestone with very thin pliable trunks.

I was not there so I can't say, but all the books list Coccothrinax alexandri as the tallest in the genus--I must assume all of the experts, along with the writers of all our books have seen both boschiana and alexandri, no? I don't wanna go against you and Jeff, I am just trying to rouse some discussion...

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