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Funkthulhu

The numbers are in for 2014 and it's official...

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Zeeth
2 minutes ago, Stevetoad said:

Nothing was taken "horribly" out of context. And the "conservative" website these quotes were from is an L.A times artical called the "fear of fusion" you can look it up. As recently as 2012 during a debate Bill Mckibben a leading environmentalist and speaker on global warming was asked point blank if he would champion nuclear fusion. He flat out said no. If you want a source for that you can watch the hour long debate yourself. It Bill Mckibben and Alex Epstein.  

Did you read what I posted? Those quotes are taken horribly out of context. 

 

The entire argument you're making is founded upon bad logic anyway. It's the same thing as saying "Jim has red hair. Jim is a jerk. All people with red hair are therefore jerks"

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Stevetoad
7 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

.. It has been said that people can be led to believe anything..

Have a Hummer?.. it'll make it through 4 feet of water in a raging flash flood, ..i promicee; Big blue sea eroding the cliff below your Apartment?, heck, i'll stay anyway. That slab of concrete below the 1st floor will divert any further erosion. Crazy " Bat Boy"-style newspaper reports it?.. Vote in favor of a moratorium on any further/future solar installations because, by gosh.. 'them solar panels will consume all of the sun's energy, and kill all the plants, 'teacher said so.  Seriously,...

Paul Ehrlich on fusion "like giving a machine gun to an idiot child,"

Jeremy Rifkin on fusion, "It's the worst thing that could happen to our planet."

John Holdren on fusion  "Worst of all to some observers, its cheap inexhaustible energy would let the planet support many more people than its current population of 5.2 billion."

David M Graber environment  "Until such time as Homo sapiens should decide to rejoin nature,some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along

Prince Philip on population "If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels."


Being on this planet 40 and a half years, i have no doubt that part of a post- glacial warming world is indeed natural.. i also won't deny that i play a part, and seek to find better ways to find balance. Oil won't last forever but the sun always shines.. Technology will catch up.

The sun doesn't shine all the time. It sets every evening and clouds can always move in during the day. Oil,coal and natural gas is going to be around for a very long time and the fear of running out isn't even brought up anymore. I have zero problems with solar and wind but you need fossil fuels to build these thing. You can't build a windmill with a windmill.  And if there was a natural shortage of oil,coal and natural gas then the cost would naturally rise to the point that other energy systems would naturally be invented or implemented due to affordability. But to restrict how much of this cheap abundant energy form we can use (85% in the next 2 decades) is wrong. 

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Zeeth
11 minutes ago, Stevetoad said:

The sun doesn't shine all the time. It sets every evening and clouds can always move in during the day. Oil,coal and natural gas is going to be around for a very long time and the fear of running out isn't even brought up anymore. I have zero problems with solar and wind but you need fossil fuels to build these thing. You can't build a windmill with a windmill.  And if there was a natural shortage of oil,coal and natural gas then the cost would naturally rise to the point that other energy systems would naturally be invented or implemented due to affordability. But to restrict how much of this cheap abundant energy form we can use (85% in the next 2 decades) is wrong. 

Thorium power is a good solution until fusion becomes feasible. The problem is that we didn't put much emphasis into it when we were starting our nuclear power program because you can't weaponize the waste. 

 

 

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Funkthulhu
10 hours ago, NorCalKing said:

Hmm, looking at next Thursday: Omaha, NE shows 13f for the "high" with an overnight low of "7f" how's that warm up working out? lol

I'm going barbecue'ing on Saturday, high of 55F...

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Stevetoad
1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

Did you read what I posted? Those quotes are taken horribly out of context. 

 

The entire argument you're making is founded upon bad logic anyway. It's the same thing as saying "Jim has red hair. Jim is a jerk. All people with red hair are therefore jerks"

I don't think those quotes are out of context at all. read the article.  I do think that fossil fuel energy has a prejudice against it. for all the bad you hear about it why is there never any talk about all the good that it does? especially seeing that the predictions that have been made about climate change and resource depletion have failed time and time again. or to use your "Jim" logic its like saying " Jim is a jerk, therefore everything Jim has done or will ever do is bad.

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Stevetoad
1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

Thorium power is a good solution until fusion becomes feasible. The problem is that we didn't put much emphasis into it when we were starting our nuclear power program because you can't weaponize the waste. 

 

 

more power less waste. sounds good to me

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Zeeth
1 hour ago, Stevetoad said:

I don't think those quotes are out of context at all. read the article.  I do think that fossil fuel energy has a prejudice against it. for all the bad you hear about it why is there never any talk about all the good that it does? especially seeing that the predictions that have been made about climate change and resource depletion have failed time and time again. or to use your "Jim" logic its like saying " Jim is a jerk, therefore everything Jim has done or will ever do is bad.

I read the article. I posted other things that were said in either the same interview, or other interviews that make it obvious that the people you quoted aren't against the progress that fusion would create. They're just aware of the fact that unlimited free energy wouldn't solve 100% of the problems that our species has. John Holdren began his career in fusion. I doubt that he would be against it. 

 

You're putting words in my mouth for the other part. I never disparaged fossil fuels in this thread. I just think that there are better alternatives, like thorium power. I agree that solar and wind can't provide us with 100% of our power with our current storage technology, but Thorium doesn't have these problems.

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Stevetoad
49 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

I read the article. I posted other things that were said in either the same interview, or other interviews that make it obvious that the people you quoted aren't against the progress that fusion would create. They're just aware of the fact that unlimited free energy wouldn't solve 100% of the problems that our species has. John Holdren began his career in fusion. I doubt that he would be against it. 

 

You're putting words in my mouth for the other part. I never disparaged fossil fuels in this thread. I just think that there are better alternatives, like thorium power. I agree that solar and wind can't provide us with 100% of our power with our current storage technology, but Thorium doesn't have these problems.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I was just using the same line of thought as your "jim" logic. Im with you on creating newer, cleaner, cheaper and better forms of power. I think Thorium would be a great asset. what I am saying is that why would you (not you personally) take away the only cheap reliable form of energy we have until a thorium rector could take its place? after all you will need oil and coal power to build the thing. cut back on oil and coal by 85% over the next 20 years would make building a thorium reactor next to impossible. I would also keep an ear open because once a thorium rector was approved to be build and used on a grand scale im willing to bet that the same people who are against oil and coal will now be warning us of the dangers of thorium. 

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NorCalKing
9 hours ago, Funkthulhu said:

I'm going barbecue'ing on Saturday, high of 55F...

Yep, followed by a foot of snow on the Tuesday :D 

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_Keith

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking' their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

What a field day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly saying, "hooray for our side"

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Mr. Coconut Palm
On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2016‎ ‎10‎:‎57‎:‎54‎, Stevetoad said:

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I was just using the same line of thought as your "jim" logic. Im with you on creating newer, cleaner, cheaper and better forms of power. I think Thorium would be a great asset. what I am saying is that why would you (not you personally) take away the only cheap reliable form of energy we have until a thorium rector could take its place? after all you will need oil and coal power to build the thing. cut back on oil and coal by 85% over the next 20 years would make building a thorium reactor next to impossible. I would also keep an ear open because once a thorium rector was approved to be build and used on a grand scale im willing to bet that the same people who are against oil and coal will now be warning us of the dangers of thorium. 

I don't think one good think has come from the fossil fuel industry, and I honestly hope the industry is completely wiped out in the next five years.  It has ruined the Gulf of Mexico for who knows how many years (the effects of the BP disaster are still being felt and the full extent of the damage isn't even yet known), and they ruined the livelihoods of tens of thousands of Gulf residents that actually led to some suicides when men could no longer feed their families with their traditional fishing business.  A coral reef that can be completely destroyed in only one hour would not think there is any benefit whatsoever from the fossil fuel industry. 

Also, here in Corpus Christi, for anyone coming in to town on the north side of town, the LONG row of ugly polluting refineries is a TOTAL EYESORE, especially for people's first impression of this city.  And for an area that depends on tourism and commercial fishing like this area does, the city really needs to rapidly divorce itself from the fossil fuel industry and turn a VERY COLD SHOULDER to it soon.  On top of that there are entre neighborhoods near the refineries where virtually everyone has cancer there and there neighborhood soil and water are extremely contaminated, 100% BECAUSE OF THE REFINERIES!  These evil greedy business interests can't go out of business soon enough to suit me.  I don't care too much for horses, but given a choice, give me the horse and buggy days anytime over this modern industrial polluting greed age!

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Stevetoad
On January 27, 2016 at 5:38:06 AM, Zeeth said:

 

3 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

I don't think one good think has come from the fossil fuel industry, and I honestly hope the industry is completely wiped out in the next five years.  It has ruined the Gulf of Mexico for who knows how many years (the effects of the BP disaster are still being felt and the full extent of the damage isn't even yet known), and they ruined the livelihoods of tens of thousands of Gulf residents that actually led to some suicides when men could no longer feed their families with their traditional fishing business.  A coral reef that can be completely destroyed in only one hour would not think there is any benefit whatsoever from the fossil fuel industry. 

Also, here in Corpus Christi, for anyone coming in to town on the north side of town, the LONG row of ugly polluting refineries is a TOTAL EYESORE, especially for people's first impression of this city.  And for an area that depends on tourism and commercial fishing like this area does, the city really needs to rapidly divorce itself from the fossil fuel industry and turn a VERY COLD SHOULDER to it soon.  On top of that there are entre neighborhoods near the refineries where virtually everyone has cancer there and there neighborhood soil and water are extremely contaminated, 100% BECAUSE OF THE REFINERIES!  These evil greedy business interests can't go out of business soon enough to suit me.  I don't care too much for horses, but given a choice, give me the horse and buggy days anytime over this modern industrial polluting greed age!

 

That's a bold statement my friend. Without fossil fuels even your horse and buggy don't exist as you can't forge iron very well without coal. Also throw out your computer and phone and the screens and all plastic parts are oil. Don't use our road any longer asphalt is oil. Grease for your buggies wheels? Nope. The jet or car that moved you from Florida to Texas? Looks like your walking because the car couldn't even be built with out plastic or heavy machines to build it. . The ambulance that saved my dads life from a heart attack wouldn't be possible with out fossil fuels. The hospital he went to wouldn't have enough energy to run the lights, and equipment. Have an underweight baby? There dead because we can't run a incubator to save them or to run a ultra sound machine to check for complications. A natural disaster is coming! Good thing our buildings and homes are built stronger than ever with the use of heavy machinery like cranes and tractors to make them stronger than ever. (Climate related deaths are down 98% since the 20s in developed counties btw). Clean purified water? Fossil fuels power those plants too but  Who needs it we will just die of water born pathogens. Paints and waterproofing membrains are useless too I guess. Want to see natures beauty? Not anymore because you won't be able to fly or travel to distant land to enjoy them. Starvation? Sure. Without tractors and modern processing machines as well as the transportation to get the food to us we would be in big trouble. Medicines would be a thing of the past too. Refuse ration uses a ton of power and even the common life saving penicillin needs to be kept cold.    I could keep going but I think my point is clear. 

Fossil fuels have saved,feed and moved us into such a better place. Instead of demo nixing fossil fuels you should be thanking them. Without them I'd be surprised if you or myself would even be alive right now. But if you do feel they are so bad then I urge you to take a stand. Lead by example. Throw out all of your evil oil made things. You'll have to respond to this by feather quill and ink and send it off pony express but I'll wait. 

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Palmaceae

Fossil fuels will always be used because it is political. Just think if we and most of the world stops using oil the Middle East will go up in flames (I know it is already unstable). The politicians would never let that happen. There is too much money and power involved.

We all drive cars, fly in planes, and use fuel. I don't know about GW and have heard both sides (I have my own thoughts about it but won't share them here), but it is definitely a hot political issue and will remain so. 

Like Steve has said, fossil fuels have helped us get to where we are now as a society, good or bad, but we all depend on it.

I have no issues with alternative fuels, but living in Iowa for 5 years I saw what it did to the corn economy and how it was used for inefficient fuels and lots of subsides to the farmers, when we should be growing corn for people and fighting hunger in the world.

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Mr. Coconut Palm
5 minutes ago, Stevetoad said:

That's a bold statement my friend. Without fossil fuels even your horse and buggy don't exist as you can't forge iron very well without coal. Also throw out your computer and phone and the screens and all plastic parts are oil. Don't use our road any longer asphalt is oil. Grease for your buggies wheels? Nope. The jet or car that moved you from Florida to Texas? Looks like your walking because the car couldn't even be built with out plastic or heavy machines to build it. . The ambulance that saved my dads life from a heart attack wouldn't be possible with out fossil fuels. The hospital he went to wouldn't have enough energy to run the lights, and equipment. Have an underweight baby? There dead because we can't run a incubator to save them or to run a ultra sound machine to check for complications. A natural disaster is coming! Good thing our buildings and homes are built stronger than ever with the use of heavy machinery like cranes and tractors to make them stronger than ever. (Climate related deaths are down 98% since the 20s in developed counties btw). Clean purified water? Fossil fuels power those plants too but  Who needs it we will just die of water born pathogens. Paints and waterproofing membrains are useless too I guess. Want to see natures beauty? Not anymore because you won't be able to fly or travel to distant land to enjoy them. Starvation? Sure. Without tractors and modern processing machines as well as the transportation to get the food to us we would be in big trouble. Medicines would be a thing of the past too. Refuse ration uses a ton of power and even the common life saving penicillin needs to be kept cold.    I could keep going but I think my point is clear. 

Fossil fuels have saved,feed and moved us into such a better place. Instead of demo nixing fossil fuels you should be thanking them. Without them I'd be surprised if you or myself would even be alive right now. But if you do feel they are so bad then I urge you to take a stand. Lead by example. Throw out all of your evil oil made things. You'll have to respond to this by feather quill and ink and send it off pony express but I'll wait. 

The few "good" things that the fossil fuel industry, in particular Big Oil are responsible for ARE FAR OUTWEIGHED BY THE NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL AND SOCIETAL EFFECT OF IT!  I WILL NEVER, REPEAT NEVER THANK BIG OIL FOR ANYTHING.  I DON'T THANK TRAITORS FOR DELIBERATELY DESTROYING CIVILIZED SOCIETY AND THE ENVIRONMENT FOR PROFIT!  They are responsible along with the bank and Wall Street for the destruction of the real economy (Main Street economy), they are responsible for just as many if not more lives destroyed than they have ever saved.  Our air, water, and ground are more polluted than ever, and those medicines you think are so great ARE KILLING PEOPLE WHOLESALE worldwide (haven't you heard of all the horrible life threatening side effects of Big Pharma products?)  Also, the Big Oil companies, along with the banks and Wall Street are responsible for continuous war now, perpetual war for perpetual profits!  You know, the Military Industrial Complex!  My parents told me that in 1939, a man invented a carburetor that could get 40 miles to a gallon, but he was stopped from producing it by John D. Rockefeller and his Standard Oil.  Also, my brother in law was doing some research into the REAL history of Big Oil and found out that in the 1990's a man in Australia invented a car that was highly efficient and clean to operate, producing no pollution and a very low cost to operate it.  When running the car, it only produced water vapor.  He found out that American Big Oil sent mercenaries to the man's home to KILL him, because the car he invented threatened their SACRED PROFIT MARGINS!

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Stevetoad
47 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

The few "good" things that the fossil fuel industry, in particular Big Oil are responsible for ARE FAR OUTWEIGHED BY THE NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL AND SOCIETAL EFFECT OF IT!  I WILL NEVER, REPEAT NEVER THANK BIG OIL FOR ANYTHING.  I DON'T THANK TRAITORS FOR DELIBERATELY DESTROYING CIVILIZED SOCIETY AND THE ENVIRONMENT FOR PROFIT!  They are responsible along with the bank and Wall Street for the destruction of the real economy (Main Street economy), they are responsible for just as many if not more lives destroyed than they have ever saved.  Our air, water, and ground are more polluted than ever, and those medicines you think are so great ARE KILLING PEOPLE WHOLESALE worldwide (haven't you heard of all the horrible life threatening side effects of Big Pharma products?)  Also, the Big Oil companies, along with the banks and Wall Street are responsible for continuous war now, perpetual war for perpetual profits!  You know, the Military Industrial Complex!  My parents told me that in 1939, a man invented a carburetor that could get 40 miles to a gallon, but he was stopped from producing it by John D. Rockefeller and his Standard Oil.  Also, my brother in law was doing some research into the REAL history of Big Oil and found out that in the 1990's a man in Australia invented a car that was highly efficient and clean to operate, producing no pollution and a very low cost to operate it.  When running the car, it only produced water vapor.  He found out that American Big Oil sent mercenaries to the man's home to KILL him, because the car he invented threatened their SACRED PROFIT MARGINS!

Wow. That was almost every conspiracy I've ever heard. First off, you are WAAAAYYY wrong if you think that fossil fuels have killed more than they saved. This is easy to see. In the industrialized world we live almost twice as long as the non industrialized world. Our infant mortality rate is 1%!!!!  Our water and air in America is cleaner than in the 70s disputed using more than twice as much fossil fuels. Even when I was a kid smog was visable and acid rain was a real thing. Now the skies are crystal clear and acid rain is just some local punk band. 

Mad for these myths or super efficient cars. If these were REAL then every car manufacture would be all over it. Did "big oil" shut down tesla? Or all the hybrid cars? Or maybe big oil killed nikola tesla! 

"big pharm"? Ask a kid dying of a simple infection in rural India if they would like to die or take penicillin? 

Of course EVERYTHING has pros and cons but to say that fossil fuels are only bad is like a white power idiot saying that African Americans have never done anything good and only bring problems. Ignoring the clear fact that fossil fuels have turned us into an amazing civilization is nuts. I would challenge you to spend a year without any for of fossil fuels and see how well you do because I'd say about 85% of our industrial population would parish. Our lives are SAFER, CLEANER and ENJOYABLE thanks to fossil fuels. 

 

So so from myself and my family,THANK YOU FOSSIL FUELS FOR MAKING THIS AMAZING LIFE FOR ME. I only wish we could spread it to the people who need it most. 

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Mr. Coconut Palm
55 minutes ago, Stevetoad said:

Wow. That was almost every conspiracy I've ever heard. First off, you are WAAAAYYY wrong if you think that fossil fuels have killed more than they saved. This is easy to see. In the industrialized world we live almost twice as long as the non industrialized world. Our infant mortality rate is 1%!!!!  Our water and air in America is cleaner than in the 70s disputed using more than twice as much fossil fuels. Even when I was a kid smog was visable and acid rain was a real thing. Now the skies are crystal clear and acid rain is just some local punk band. 

Mad for these myths or super efficient cars. If these were REAL then every car manufacture would be all over it. Did "big oil" shut down tesla? Or all the hybrid cars? Or maybe big oil killed nikola tesla! 

"big pharm"? Ask a kid dying of a simple infection in rural India if they would like to die or take penicillin? 

Of course EVERYTHING has pros and cons but to say that fossil fuels are only bad is like a white power idiot saying that African Americans have never done anything good and only bring problems. Ignoring the clear fact that fossil fuels have turned us into an amazing civilization is nuts. I would challenge you to spend a year without any for of fossil fuels and see how well you do because I'd say about 85% of our industrial population would parish. Our lives are SAFER, CLEANER and ENJOYABLE thanks to fossil fuels. 

 

So so from myself and my family,THANK YOU FOSSIL FUELS FOR MAKING THIS AMAZING LIFE FOR ME. I only wish we could spread it to the people who need it most. 

Texas skies, water, beaches and land in the heart of Oil Country are filthy, much worse than when I was a boy in the 1970's when the EPA was at least somewhat allowed to do its job and not stacked full of industry insiders running constant interference on behalf of industry, just like the FDA and USDA are chocked full of pro Monsanto and Agrichem reps.  I miss the days before the rampant and incessant deregulation of industry.  BRING BACK REGULATION AND BRING BACK THE UNIONS STRONGER THAN EVER, FOREVER!

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Stevetoad
4 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Texas skies, water, beaches and land in the heart of Oil Country are filthy, much worse than when I was a boy in the 1970's when the EPA was at least somewhat allowed to do its job and not stacked full of industry insiders running constant interference on behalf of industry, just like the FDA and USDA are chocked full of pro Monsanto and Agrichem reps.  I miss the days before the rampant and incessant deregulation of industry.  BRING BACK REGULATION AND BRING BACK THE UNIONS STRONGER THAN EVER, FOREVER!

We could get into a union debate and how great there are. Just ask the auto Union. but we are talking about fossil fuels. 

You said that that "not one good thing has come from the oil industry". And that you "honestly hope they're wiped out in five years". So if we took your advice would you say that the millions who die the first cold winter,starve to death and die from water born illness are better off with out fossil fuels?

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Stevetoad
1 hour ago, Palmaceae said:

Fossil fuels will always be used because it is political. Just think if we and most of the world stops using oil the Middle East will go up in flames (I know it is already unstable). The politicians would never let that happen. There is too much money and power involved.

We all drive cars, fly in planes, and use fuel. I don't know about GW and have heard both sides (I have my own thoughts about it but won't share them here), but it is definitely a hot political issue and will remain so. 

Like Steve has said, fossil fuels have helped us get to where we are now as a society, good or bad, but we all depend on it.

I have no issues with alternative fuels, but living in Iowa for 5 years I saw what it did to the corn economy and how it was used for inefficient fuels and lots of subsides to the farmers, when we should be growing corn for people and fighting hunger in the world.

Youre spot on. one day they say we will be in a food shortage but let's grow corn to feed cars. Brilliant idea. 

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Xerarch

I remember the good ol' days when threads like this would get shut down all the time.  Actually I'm not advocating that this get shut down, just noticing that it hasn't. 

As for the subject matter, I happen to have a lot of opinions on the matter, but I don't expect to be able to talk any sense into anyone. 

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Stevetoad
3 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

I remember the good ol' days when threads like this would get shut down all the time.  Actually I'm not advocating that this get shut down, just noticing that it hasn't. 

As for the subject matter, I happen to have a lot of opinions on the matter, but I don't expect to be able to talk any sense into anyone. 

I think we're flying under the radar right now. Shhhhhhhhhh

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Xerarch

Ok, I hope everyone can appreciate a bit of humor regardless of which side of the issue you're on. 

image.jpeg

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PompanoBeach

It's February 1 at last and here in S. Florida January was cool but not anywhere near freezing. Thanks to El Nino, it's been extremely gloomy and rainy. So much for our dry season.

Until the third of January most of the past year had been very warm indeed in this neck of the woods. December's average low temperatures were about 12F north of normal at Fort Lauderdale, and the overall average here was about 7.5F above normal for the month. The year 2015 as a whole was 2.6F above the annual average (78.8F for the record). This is part of a verifiable warming trend extending to the Eighties. We are in Zone 10b and are trending to 11a. 

It's been great for the palms. 

 

Edited by PompanoBeach

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Mr. Coconut Palm
11 hours ago, PompanoBeach said:

It's February 1 at last and here in S. Florida January was cool but not anywhere near freezing. Thanks to El Nino, it's been extremely gloomy and rainy. So much for our dry season.

Until the third of January most of the past year had been very warm indeed in this neck of the woods. December's average low temperatures were about 12F north of normal at Fort Lauderdale, and the overall average here was about 7.5F above normal for the month. The year 2015 as a whole was 2.6F above the annual average (78.8F for the record). This is part of a verifiable warming trend extending to the Eighties. We are in Zone 10b and are trending to 11a. 

It's been great for the palms. 

 

Hey Terry,

This winter has been so mild here in South Texas that it prompted me to plant 5 of the 7 Coconut Palms I have, 3 in the front yard two weeks ago, and 2 in the backyard yesterday morning with my wife's help.  Normally, I wouldn't plant my cold sensitive tropicals like Coconut Palms since they are marginal here and at their absolute northern most limit of their range here on the South Texas Coast before March or the end of February at the earliest.  But it has been so mild here this winter, that I got impatient and couldn't wait any longer and wanted to give them a big jump on growth for the whole year before next winter.  Normally, I would have about 3 frosts in my low end Zone 10A yard, but this winter, I only had one light frost last Thursday morning, with a low of 33.6F, but it warmed up to 74.4F that afternoon!  My normals for the end of Jan. are 66F/51F.

John

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PompanoBeach

Best of the luck with the new plantings, John. 

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Mr. Coconut Palm
1 hour ago, PompanoBeach said:

Best of the luck with the new plantings, John. 

Thanks, Terry.

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_Keith

OK, I'll waddle into this topic.  Whether you see it as good or bad, most of the population of this planet exist because of a fossil fuel boom time historically speaking.  Without fossil fuels civilization would be nowhere near as advanced as it is today. Most of us would not even exist.  So, that is the upside.   Is there a downside, of course, there almost always is.  Is there a trillion dollar industry that doesn't want things to change, of course there is.   Don't think for a minute those fossil fuel companies don't have secret labs working on the next trillion dollar industry, of course they are.   Do you think they will talk away from a known available pot of gold to chase the next one, of course they won't.  Are there people looking for a way to stop or reverse the downside of fossil fuels, of course there are.  Do we know a 10th as much as we think we know, of course that has always and will always be the case.  As much as this polarized world would like to convince you it is black and white, it is all gray folks, every bit of it.  Once we accept that we can leave the fringes on the edge and find middle ground where something, not everything, can be accomplished.  Until then you are preaching to your own crowd and saying "hooray for our side."

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Ed in Houston

 In large cities like New York around 1900, horse manure in the streets was seen to be an insurmountable health and quality of life problem.

20889_orig.png?1333693417

 

Twenty years later the problem was gone due to technological advances.

Hollywood_1920s.jpg

 

Global warming is just more horse manure!

Ed in Houston

 

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At least the temps are back to their "normal" range for the time being ...

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Funkthulhu
On 2/4/2016, 5:47:26, Ed in Houston said:

 In large cities like New York around 1900, horse manure in the streets was seen to be an insurmountable health and quality of life problem.

Twenty years later the problem was gone due to technological advances.

Global warming is just more horse manure!

Ed in Houston

 

Deniers.jpg

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