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Rafael

2014/2015 Winter in south Europe

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samirbouag

i don't know? why? ......maybe because you didn't look enought! :) lol

Or maybe because in France or Monaco people use to plant the most famous palm trees like washintonia and phoenix, and not everybody knows about those rare palm species, so i guess that's why, but in manaco there are privates gardens or public exotic garden where you can find real tropical palm growing outside . :winkie:

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Alicante

even more north in Monaco we have almost the same minimal as Almeria : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monaco#Climate

We won't talking about averages, we were talking about extremes. Monaco has one of the mildest low averages temperatures in the winter in all Europe. But the average maximums are a lot lower than in the east or south coast of Spain, midwest, southwest and south Italy, Balearic Islands, Sicilia, Lampedusa, Malta, southernmost part of Greece, Crete, almost all Greece islands, Cyprus...

Monaco's climate is very similar to A Coruña (100% oceanic climate with mediterranean influences) which gets between 13-13,5ºC maximums and 7,5-8ºC minimums in January, the coldest month: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Coru%C3%B1a#Clima

Obviously in A Coruña you won't find too tropical species like Roystoneas, Archontophoenix, Ptychosperma, Dictyosperma, Dypsis, etc... and even Bismarckia like our mate Phoenikakias mentioned before. Even in Barcelona you won't find them, I also traveled a few times trough the southermost part of France, and I didn't saw plantations of oranges or tangerines. How often do you get low temperatures ?

Regards

If so how come I have not seen a single Bismarckia in Monaco, Menton or the Italian Riviera? And if the air humidity during the (mild?) winter is prohibitively high, how come then that I have not encountered a single Ptychosperma or Dictyosperma?

I think it's because the average maximum temperatures in the summer are low.

I am not encountering any important climate data for Monaco, but I am finding a lot of Nice which is 10-15km from Monaco and it got almost the same climate: http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Nice/76900.htm I am seeing that all years the biggest maximum temperatures were 31-32-33ºC... that's an normal day in the summer in almost all the places i've mentioned before. Tropical plants grow better with hot temperatures during the day and colder in the nights compared to mild days and mild nights, a lot better; one good example is Durban, South Africa which can get coconuts with 22-23/10-11-12 and the Azores with 17-18/13-14 can't, Those tropical species won't get that in the southernmost coast of France.

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empireo22

bizzies probaly wont do good in Monaco they need a lot of heat. even if night time temps in Monaco are the same as Almeria the day time temps in Almeria are on average 5 dergrees warmer every month. also being further south the uv is stronger and the sun heats things up faster. so Almeria is better for the tropical palms then Monaco.....anyway Monaco climate is quite impressive though. and im sure kings do great there along with many other palms.

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Alicante

i don't know? why? ......maybe because you didn't look enought! :) lol

Or maybe because in France or Monaco people use to plant the most famous palm trees like washintonia and phoenix, and not everybody knows about those rare palm species, so i guess that's why, but in manaco there are privates gardens or public exotic garden where you can find real tropical palm growing outside . :winkie:

I think he's right mate... I don't think you gonna find those species in Monaco.

Monaco's climate is very mild to grow a big part of tropical species, because they need hot, and they won't get that in the south coast of France. Scilly Islands for example, located at almost 50ºN (in the English Channel) get low averages of 6,5ºC in January, the coldest month. That's almost 3ºC more than in Napoli or +2ºC more than in Ajaccio. And in the Scilly islands you can find some few palm trees, almost all being Trachycarpus. Some few phoenix do good there but they don't do it as in hotter places. Scilly islands even got 10a and Monaco it's on 9b zone; but in summers they only got maximum averages of 20ºC so they can't get even syagrus.

It's better for tropical palms to get 17 at day and 5 at night than 12 at day and 8 at night.

Regards :)

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Rafael

I grow bismarckia here (42ºN; fourth consecutive winter; absolute minimum -0,4C; agressive cool winter).

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samirbouag

yes the temperatures the afternoon are not high enought.

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Cikas

even more north in Monaco we have almost the same minimal as Almeria : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monaco#Climate

We won't talking about averages, we were talking about extremes. Monaco has one of the mildest low averages temperatures in the winter in all Europe. But the average maximums are a lot lower than in the east or south coast of Spain, midwest, southwest and south Italy, Balearic Islands, Sicilia, Lampedusa, Malta, southernmost part of Greece, Crete, almost all Greece islands, Cyprus...

Monaco's climate is very similar to A Coruña (100% oceanic climate with mediterranean influences) which gets between 13-13,5ºC maximums and 7,5-8ºC minimums in January, the coldest month: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Coru%C3%B1a#Clima

Obviously in A Coruña you won't find too tropical species like Roystoneas, Archontophoenix, Ptychosperma, Dictyosperma, Dypsis, etc... and even Bismarckia like our mate Phoenikakias mentioned before. Even in Barcelona you won't find them, I also traveled a few times trough the southermost part of France, and I didn't saw plantations of oranges or tangerines. How often do you get low temperatures ?

Regards

If so how come I have not seen a single Bismarckia in Monaco, Menton or the Italian Riviera? And if the air humidity during the (mild?) winter is prohibitively high, how come then that I have not encountered a single Ptychosperma or Dictyosperma?

I think it's because the average maximum temperatures in the summer are low.

I am not encountering any important climate data for Monaco, but I am finding a lot of Nice which is 10-15km from Monaco and it got almost the same climate: http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Nice/76900.htm I am seeing that all years the biggest maximum temperatures were 31-32-33ºC... that's an normal day in the summer in almost all the places i've mentioned before. Tropical plants grow better with hot temperatures during the day and colder in the nights compared to mild days and mild nights, a lot better; one good example is Durban, South Africa which can get coconuts with 22-23/10-11-12 and the Azores with 17-18/13-14 can't, Those tropical species won't get that in the southernmost coast of France.

Not true.

Tropical species like warm day and night temperatures.

And most tropical species will grow best in 25-30°C range. Too hot is not good likewise. Especially in the dry climate like the Mediterranean climate.

Archontophoenix will grow great in Monaco climate.

Most Dypsis species dislike hot temperatures. Hot temperatures can kill them.

Also like in Dubrovnik were I live, people in most of the Europe gotten used to plant the same species all the time. We can grow many different species, but most people will just plant same old common species. So just because the most common palms in Monaco are Phoenix canariensis or Washingtonia, it does not mean that many other, tropical even palms and plants in general can not grow.

Also in my opinion Bismarckia can grow in Monaco. 26°C average maximum in summer ( in shade ) is good enough. Temperatures in sun can be up to 10+ degrees higher.

Edited by Cikas

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samirbouag

Yes it grows there and in marseille and St tropez too i said ok because i just didn t want to enter in a ...... No you're wrong, no i'm right ! Lol Hahahaha

Summer in Monaco are hot even during thé night and and with thé humidex it feels like 20 more lol . The air is very wet there is summer. I live at 1:45 min to Monaco i use to go there in summer and in february for thé french citrus and orange festival ! Yes we have french productions. Anyway lol .

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Cikas

Climate of Dubrovnik.

All Citrus species grow great here.

Screen_Shot002.png

We can grow many different palm species, but the most common ones are Phoenix canariensis or Washingtonia. Because people here are used to plant them.

And for most people here, all palms look the same.

image.jpg

image.jpg

28696862.jpg

Dubrovnik_Kroatien.jpg

filename_p1010073_jpg.jpg

Edited by Cikas

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Cikas

Some more..

Avocado, Tamarillo, different ficus species, bananas ect.. also grow here.

Lapad_Hotel_Dubrovnik_photos_Exterior.jp

34426083.jpg

Cavtat03.jpg

cavtat_31.jpg

pla_Za_lapad_dubrovnik.jpg

o_hotelu_lapad_4_zvjezdice_dubrovnik_635

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Phoenikakias

French Riviera is a highly touristic resort since the 19th century and Bismarckia (which btw is indigenous in Madagascar, a former french colony, and which french botanists for political reasons tried to rename it to MEDEMIA nobilis) is a highly decorative palm as well! If this palm could thrive in the Rivirera, it would have been widely used for public planting like it did happen with Brahea armata or Butia or Phoenix roebelenii (another palm from the former french colony of Indochina!). It is only an assumption of mine, but well based on historical precedence! Same of course with Dictyosperma (another palm from a french colony the Mascarenes). So I can not buy the explanation of people's ignorance, because this ignorance is very 'selective'! It may well be plausible for other regions in Balcan and Near East, but not for a country with a long tradition in overseas colonies. A friend of mine owning a magnificent coastal garden in central-western Italy reported recently that almost all Butia spss rot readily in the super-humid air prevailing there during summer. Of course humid is the air also in the southeastern part of USA during summer but temperature in summer is quite high there, making humidity less dense for a part of the day. I have looked thoroughly at the pictures of Val Rahmeh and nothing there can make me change my attitude. I have not seen a single Bismarckia, or a single Pritchardia or a single Roystonea or at least a Coccothrinax. Potted plants are not taken in to consideration. High-altitude sierras preventing northern cold wind and sea proximity may create in northern latitude a similiar effect to an oceanic climate (which may be very promoting for oceanic palms, especially those growing in subtropical regions such as Kentia, Rhopalostylis or for palms from highlands in the tropics), but they can not compensate the lack of hot temps during summer.

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samirbouag

hi,

i know you guys are right, even if in the french riviera we almost don't have frost in winter, we can't grow those species because the temperatures the afternoon are too low,

i live in that place and i winter usualy the temperatures turn around 14°c the afteroon, and sometimes we can have close to 20°c but sometimes only 9 °c, the temperatures change a lot here.

During the summer in the sea front it's rare that the temperatures goes over 30°c because of the sea breeze but more inside, i live in aix en provence, the temperatures in summer are very hot, and sometimes close to 40°c, i that place of france, in 20 minutes driving we can have an other climate, and the french riviera have a lot of microclimat too, more wet or more dry more warm or...anyway, but there's a french forum "fous de palmier" some people who lives on the french riviera grows the bismarckia. maybe not for a long term and they do. and i know spain have a much better climat than we have here on the riviera, your temperatures in winter are most of the time close to 18°c and that makes the difference. it's like trying to grow coconut in california. lol hahah

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Rafael

I dont think those statements are absolute.

My bismarckia handles with cool afternoons in the winter too, with max from 9 to 16 from december till february and is looking like this, after its 4th winter here..

post-3292-0-87234600-1422368737_thumb.jp

Besides, i think many palms are not being tryed in many places where they have great potential. Like dypsis, rhopalostylis and ceroxylon.

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Cikas

Rafael, your Bismarckia looks great. :greenthumb:

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samirbouag

I dont think those statements are absolute.

My bismarckia handles with cool afternoons in the winter too, with max from 9 to 16 from december till february and is looking like this, after its 4th winter here..

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

Besides, i think many palms are not being tryed in many places where they have great potential. Like dypsis, rhopalostylis and ceroxylon.

so nice Raph!! thanks for sharing your pictures!!

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Alicante

yes the temperatures the afternoon are not high enought.

This is the point mate. The high temperatures are quite low; well they aren't so low, they are mild.

Almería it's a very different thing and it can't be compared to Monaco which is a totally different climate; Monaco is pure mediterranean with oceanic influences and a lot of rain and Almeria's one is BWh desertic (more than 18ºC in average per year so it makes a warm desert, similar to Sahara; BTW is the only one with this type of climate in Europe) so they play in different leagues.

Barcelona for example can be compared very good with Monaco, Barcelona average is 16,5ºC and Monaco average is 16,4ºC. Barcelona rain is 640mm and Monaco one is 770mm. From March to November Barcelona is more hotter but Monaco equals it with the lowest temperatures, for example in March Monaco got 14/9.6 and Barcelona 16.1/7.7 or in July 25.8/21.2 and Barcelona 28.4/21.1. They get the rain almost in the same season.

They can be compared well, if a plant grows in Barcelona it will do it in Monaco and the same applies with Monaco, if a plant grows in Monaco it will do it in Barcelona. Monaco got an very good microclimate and it's far the warmest climate in that zone. You go to Montpellier which is located at the french coast too and it's very different. Well they get 29/19 on July but in January they get 11/3 so from far Monaco has the best french climate! (if we don't count the French Polynesia :P)

Well this last page is meaningless with the thread title :floor:

Hey one question samirbouag, how often do you get low temperatures ? I see that Nice get's in 2-3 years a light freeze, that happens in Monaco too ?

Regards

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Alicante

Climate of Dubrovnik.

All Citrus species grow great here.

Screen_Shot002.png

We can grow many different palm species, but the most common ones are Phoenix canariensis or Washingtonia. Because people here are used to plant them.

And for most people here, all palms look the same.

image.jpg

They can grow quite well in there but they can't survive well there. Those winters aren't for citrus; your averages are very good but you get freezes every year.

The problem is that Central Europe often get very cold waves so you can grow all of them but in your zone the freezes are more common so it will blow the oranges and tangerines. Lemons can grow well if they get low freezes.

One more thing with the citrus species is that if they get -1ºC for example, it has to be for maximum 3-4 hours and the next day they have to get at least 15ºC and they have to get the sun. When a cold wave hits Dubrovnik it's not the same as when hits south Greece.

I am seeing in the Hrvatska official climate chart for Dubrovnik that between 1961 and 1990 you got -7ºC and -6ºC. In March you got one time -4.2ºC and that make the difference with this kind of climate with the mediterranean ones. For example in South Greece or here you'll never meet even in the worst cold wave ever, you'll not meet frezes in March.

Also I see that every year you also get at least a couple freezes and every 2-3 years you get an stronger freeze, the last being -4ºC in December 2014: http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/144740.htm

You can grow wild citrus which in Barcelona for example are planted on the streets (they are taller and their fruit is not good; they're quite more tolerant to freezes) but you can't have an extended plantation of oranges/tangerines in Dubrovnik. The most mature trees would survive to -2 / -3ºC but with a very strong freeze, if they don't get hot the next day all the fruits will stop growing. With -4ºC like this one in December 2014 all the fruits fall from the tree and almost all orange trees die. If they get another freeze the next day, even if it's light, it's over for the oranges.

I know it because i'm from Valencia and this is the land of oranges. I know some plantations in a place which is about 25-30km from sea, it's at ~400m altitude and in 2009 or 2010 I know that in that place snowed and they get about 9-10/-2ºC that day and in the next day they got about 10/-1. That year all the oranges stop growing and a lot of plantations died. Well they were oranges and the oranges are the most untolerant citrus to cold.

BTW you got a very desirable climate and I think that all your neighbour central european countries are envy on you hehehe, I know that a lot of central Europeans go to Croatia to have they summer, you get the best climate in that zone.

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Alicante

I dont think those statements are absolute.

My bismarckia handles with cool afternoons in the winter too, with max from 9 to 16 from december till february and is looking like this, after its 4th winter here..

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

Besides, i think many palms are not being tryed in many places where they have great potential. Like dypsis, rhopalostylis and ceroxylon.

100% agreed mate.

You can take a tour with Street View on the suburbs of L.A. which got almost the same climate as we have here in Valencia and look at the difference of planted palm trees. As all you know America got more extreme temperatures like we do on the Mediterranean, some years they even get close to freeze in Orlando which is practically considered in a tropical zone... Los Angeles city itself is more milder but places 5-10km inland can get real cold. (not averages, I am talking about extremes)

And you can see what they have planted... almost all syagrus, but you find a lot of archontophoenix and rhopalostylis, well I say "a lot" compared to here. In my zone, or going south until the Portugal border in all the coastline you can grow those plants, even a bit in the north, from Tarragona coast to south. You can do that downing a little bit from Rome to Sicily in almost all the italian west coast, in Sicily, in Half of Portugal coastline, in Malta, in the Balearic Islands, in the southern part of Greece, Crete, Cyprus, etc... and we get at 95% phoenix and washingtonias.

I think that the main problem is that the people and the local government haven't got any acknowledgement in palm trees. They grow the common species because all do. Well, in my zone I can see a lot of syagrus, archontophoenix, bismarckia, even roystoneas, dypsis... and some more which I don't know the name and this one i've seen planted in public in some places which I don't know the name too:

52769454c5e30.JPG

But if I go to places that have even warmer climates, like Almeria, you only find a very few of those... We have a climate in some places of Europe in which we don't take the advantages of it. In America for example they don't waste the climate they have. :sleep:

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Cikas

Climate of Dubrovnik.

All Citrus species grow great here.

Screen_Shot002.png

We can grow many different palm species, but the most common ones are Phoenix canariensis or Washingtonia. Because people here are used to plant them.

And for most people here, all palms look the same.

image.jpg

They can grow quite well in there but they can't survive well there. Those winters aren't for citrus; your averages are very good but you get freezes every year.

The problem is that Central Europe often get very cold waves so you can grow all of them but in your zone the freezes are more common so it will blow the oranges and tangerines. Lemons can grow well if they get low freezes.

One more thing with the citrus species is that if they get -1ºC for example, it has to be for maximum 3-4 hours and the next day they have to get at least 15ºC and they have to get the sun. When a cold wave hits Dubrovnik it's not the same as when hits south Greece.

I am seeing in the Hrvatska official climate chart for Dubrovnik that between 1961 and 1990 you got -7ºC and -6ºC. In March you got one time -4.2ºC and that make the difference with this kind of climate with the mediterranean ones. For example in South Greece or here you'll never meet even in the worst cold wave ever, you'll not meet frezes in March.

Also I see that every year you also get at least a couple freezes and every 2-3 years you get an stronger freeze, the last being -4ºC in December 2014: http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/144740.htm

You can grow wild citrus which in Barcelona for example are planted on the streets (they are taller and their fruit is not good; they're quite more tolerant to freezes) but you can't have an extended plantation of oranges/tangerines in Dubrovnik. The most mature trees would survive to -2 / -3ºC but with a very strong freeze, if they don't get hot the next day all the fruits will stop growing. With -4ºC like this one in December 2014 all the fruits fall from the tree and almost all orange trees die. If they get another freeze the next day, even if it's light, it's over for the oranges.

I know it because i'm from Valencia and this is the land of oranges. I know some plantations in a place which is about 25-30km from sea, it's at ~400m altitude and in 2009 or 2010 I know that in that place snowed and they get about 9-10/-2ºC that day and in the next day they got about 10/-1. That year all the oranges stop growing and a lot of plantations died. Well they were oranges and the oranges are the most untolerant citrus to cold.

BTW you got a very desirable climate and I think that all your neighbour central european countries are envy on you hehehe, I know that a lot of central Europeans go to Croatia to have they summer, you get the best climate in that zone.

Not true.

1. We do not have below freezing temperatures every year. In the last 10 years, 4 winters were without below freezing temperatures.

And if we get below freezing temperatures that is only 1-2 times in winter. Usually only for a few hours during the night.

2. That chartz above is a official, for 1971-2000.

3. Citrus species are with grapes literally the most common fruits here. They are commercially grown in Dalmatia.

Every garden has at least one citrus tree. They are present here for centuries. Many our traditional food include citrus fruits.

So your statements are laughable

4. My climate is hot Mediterranean

5. Dubrovnik Cilipi is in Konavle near Monte Negro, not in Dubrovnik, and on high altitude.

This is climate data for Dubrovnik

http://en.tutiempo.net/climate/ws-144720.html

We did not have -4°C. We had -2°C. And that was first below freezing temperature after two winters without them.

2014

Screen_Shot013.png

2013

Screen_Shot014.png

2012

Screen_Shot015.png

2011

Screen_Shot016.png

Edited by Cikas

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Cikas
pRoeZa* as SouthSeaNate already stated. You really need to stop arguing about climates where you've never been. You do not like when someone speaks about your climate, but you will very gladly have a totally wrong statements about other climates, about which you do not know nothing.

Citrus species in Dubrovnik area.

Bonsai_akcija_Naran_a_5.jpg

1350025092m224.jpg

img_18547_20.jpg

narancini2_800x600.jpg

narance_noc_dubrovnik.jpg

naranaispredkue.jpg

  • Upvote 1

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Cikas

Also Dubrovnik is not in Central Europe, Dubrovnik is in Southern Europe on Adriatic sea.

Near Italy.

karte.jpg

karta_italije_auto_karta_italija_news_pi

9919.jpg

garden.jpg

042_stonesandoranges_copy.jpg

mandarine_Denis_Jerkovic.jpg

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Cikas

Southern Europe for people who do not know the difference.

eu_s_web.png

southern-europe-s.gif

location.gif

Climate

Europe_Koppen_Map.png

Solar-Radiation-Map-of-Croatia.mediumthu

klima.jpg

Edited by Cikas

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Alicante

pRoeZa* as SouthSeaNate already stated. You really need to stop arguing about climates where you've never been. You do not like when someone speaks about your climate, but you will very gladly have a totally wrong statements about other climates, about which you do not know nothing.

Citrus species in Dubrovnik area.

Bonsai_akcija_Naran_a_5.jpg

1350025092m224.jpg

img_18547_20.jpg

narancini2_800x600.jpg

narance_noc_dubrovnik.jpg

naranaispredkue.jpg

1. I've stated that no one should speak about climates they don't know, no other one :floor:

2. Because I don't finded certain data about his climate. But about yours I've found a lot, and look at this:

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2014/144740.htm 2014 : -4°C el día 30 de Diciembre

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2013/144740.htm 2013: -0.8°C el día 8 de Enero

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2012/144740.htm 2012: -2.6°C el día 14 de Febrero.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2011/144740.htm 2011: -2°C el día 26 de Enero.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2010/144740.htm 2010: -3°C el día 15 de Diciembre.

You even got -5ºC in 2004 : -5°C el día 23 de Enero.

I don't need to lie, I don't win anything lying and putting nonofficial data. As you can see here you got your lowest recorded records in those past years... :) :) I don't know why you are insisting so much... I've putted the official chart and you keep it on... here you got the official charts another time.

I'm glad that you can grow citrus, but you can't grow them for extended plantations. You can plant a tree every year because the oranges are fast-growing plants.

I am not talking about what I don't know, I am talking about official data says... :bummed:

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Alicante

PS: And here you got the official FAO data for 2012 and past years of citrus cultivations:

http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/templates/est/COMM_MARKETS_MONITORING/Citrus/Documents/CITRUS_BULLETIN_2012.pdf

As you can see you only find Croatia in IMPORTATORS.

Like i've said before you have a very good climate and the best for all your area... but you accused me to much things and here I am to demonstrate that you are wrong.

I've putted the official climate charts for most extreme minimums and the FAO production which Croatia only appears as IMPORTATOR... I need to keep on ?? I don't know why you start this when I've argumented all I was saying... :indifferent:

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Rafael

Well, turning back to the topic issue (a bit hijacked), i am looking forward no more freezing events. My tender stuff will be thankfull.

What about you people on Southern Europe?

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Alicante

And friend almost all the photos of citrus you've putted were the ones I was talking about, the ones that are planted in the streets of Barcelona. They give sour and bad tasting fruits: (CITRUS X AURATIUM)

Sevilla+027.jpg

verkami_ab8bf95bb1a99a405c98aa7a4bd8e49c

And even being those citrus that like i've said before are more tolerant to cold and they don't give good fruits, they're only few of them planted, they're not extended.

Look at the difference with here, or the south of Italy or Greece: (those are plantations of Citrus X Sinensis of Valencia)

image010.jpg

IMG_0369.jpg

Citrus x Auratium grows even in Galicia:

Laranxeira_Naranjo_GFDL.JPG

I am seeing that the ones from the first photo are the only ones that appear to be Citrus X Sinensis which are the good oranges. And i'm seeing that they're quite young so we can return to what I said at the first time...

The "good" oranges (not Citrus X Auratium) can least 2 maximum 3 winters in your zone but then they would die, according to your official extreme temperatures per year. Oranges grow quite fast so it's profitable to grow them for 2-3 years and then start again. BTW Croatia doesn't appear in the chart for Europe and if Croatia had a very few extended production it would appear. Look per example Japan and Libya produce almost 90-100 times less oranges than Spain and they appear. The only european countries that have an proper climate suitable for oranges are Spain, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, Malta and Monaco.

And one more thing, Central, South and North Europe is something that is represented by everyone which want to make those "borders". Everyone has his opinions about it. But for me Croatia is mid-south Europe, belonging more to the Central Europe than in the South Europe. If you are "south" what is Gibraltar, Malta or Creta... ¿? ¿Africa? No man... :bummed:

Regards :winkie:

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Alicante

Well, turning back to the topic issue (a bit hijacked), i am looking forward no more freezing events. My tender stuff will be thankfull.

What about you people on Southern Europe?

Agree with that, I hope no more cold this year. Freezing no, but here we get 3,6ºC which is very cold. Thanks God that this week started good and we gonna have a very hot weekend! 19/16 predicted for thursday and 21/13 for friday. But with 50km/h winds :crying:

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Cikas

1. I've stated that no one should speak about climates they don't know, no other one :floor:

2. Because I don't finded certain data about his climate. But about yours I've found a lot, and look at this:

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2014/144740.htm 2014 : -4°C el día 30 de Diciembre

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2013/144740.htm 2013: -0.8°C el día 8 de Enero

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2012/144740.htm 2012: -2.6°C el día 14 de Febrero.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2011/144740.htm 2011: -2°C el día 26 de Enero.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2010/144740.htm 2010: -3°C el día 15 de Diciembre.

You even got -5ºC in 2004 : -5°C el día 23 de Enero.

I don't need to lie, I don't win anything lying and putting nonofficial data. As you can see here you got your lowest recorded records in those past years... :) :) I don't know why you are insisting so much... I've putted the official chart and you keep it on... here you got the official charts another time.

I'm glad that you can grow citrus, but you can't grow them for extended plantations. You can plant a tree every year because the oranges are fast-growing plants.

I am not talking about what I don't know, I am talking about official data says... :bummed:

Are you trolling or what. Cilipi is not Dubrovnik!!!

Cilipi is high altitude vilige south of Dubrovnik, near border with Monte Negro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Cilipi

This is Dubrovnik weather station.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/DUBROVNIK_GORICA/2014/144720.htm -2°C el día 30 de Diciembre.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/DUBROVNIK_GORICA/2013/144720.htm 1°C el día 11 de Febrero.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/DUBROVNIK_GORICA/2012/144720.htm -0.8°C el día 15 de Febrero.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/DUBROVNIK_GORICA/2011/144720.htm 0.2°C el día 25 de Enero.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/DUBROVNIK_GORICA/2010/144720.htm-1.5°C el día 15 de Diciembre.

As I have already said, citrus is grown commercially in Dalmatia. Citrus species are present here for hundreds of years.

We have huge commercial citrus plantations.

mandarine_gajbe_1227.jpg

1260796421mandarine_granica1_131108.jpg

1388167480mandarine.jpg

Like I said before, you like to speak about climates of which you know nothing.

Edited by Cikas
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Alicante

1. I've stated that no one should speak about climates they don't know, no other one :floor:

2. Because I don't finded certain data about his climate. But about yours I've found a lot, and look at this:

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2014/144740.htm 2014 : -4°C el día 30 de Diciembre

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2013/144740.htm 2013: -0.8°C el día 8 de Enero

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2012/144740.htm 2012: -2.6°C el día 14 de Febrero.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2011/144740.htm 2011: -2°C el día 26 de Enero.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Dubrovnik_Cilipi/2010/144740.htm 2010: -3°C el día 15 de Diciembre.

You even got -5ºC in 2004 : -5°C el día 23 de Enero.

I don't need to lie, I don't win anything lying and putting nonofficial data. As you can see here you got your lowest recorded records in those past years... :) :) I don't know why you are insisting so much... I've putted the official chart and you keep it on... here you got the official charts another time.

I'm glad that you can grow citrus, but you can't grow them for extended plantations. You can plant a tree every year because the oranges are fast-growing plants.

I am not talking about what I don't know, I am talking about official data says... :bummed:

Are you trolling or what. Cilipi is not Dubrovnik!!!

Cilipi is high altitude vilige south of Dubrovnik, near border with Monte Negro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Cilipi

This is Dubrovnik weather station.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/DUBROVNIK_GORICA/2014/144720.htm -2°C el día 30 de Diciembre.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/DUBROVNIK_GORICA/2013/144720.htm 1°C el día 11 de Febrero.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/DUBROVNIK_GORICA/2012/144720.htm -0.8°C el día 15 de Febrero.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/DUBROVNIK_GORICA/2011/144720.htm 0.2°C el día 25 de Enero.

http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/DUBROVNIK_GORICA/2010/144720.htm-1.5°C el día 15 de Diciembre.

As I have already said, citrus is grown commercially in Dalmatia. Citrus species are present here for hundreds of years.

We have huge commercial citrus plantations.

mandarine_gajbe_1227.jpg

1260796421mandarine_granica1_131108.jpg

1388167480mandarine.jpg

Like I said before, you like to speak abou climate climates of which you know nothing.

Yes you are right, I don't know so much (not nothing :winkie: ) about your climate. I just statted on the official temps.

You are agreeing to what i've been saying with plant other new trees every 3-4 years ... that's profituous. And those are local plantations not extended ones, you we're saying that in your country there are extended ones and i've showed you with the FAO official chart that you appear only as importator, the only extended producers from Europe are Spain, Italy, Greece and Cyprus.

You can check another time FAO's chart and you see Croatia only as IMPORTATOR. Croatia has no extended plantations. But even showing you the official numbers maked by the biggest organization of this kind in the world you even don't change your opinion and you keep on what you were saying... ok.. whatever you say buddy, the FAO is lying us :bummed:

Here you got the link: http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/templates/est/COMM_MARKETS_MONITORING/Citrus/Documents/CITRUS_BULLETIN_2012.pdf

Regards

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Cikas

PS: And here you got the official FAO data for 2012 and past years of citrus cultivations:

http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/templates/est/COMM_MARKETS_MONITORING/Citrus/Documents/CITRUS_BULLETIN_2012.pdf

As you can see you only find Croatia in IMPORTATORS.

Like i've said before you have a very good climate and the best for all your area... but you accused me to much things and here I am to demonstrate that you are wrong.

I've putted the official climate charts for most extreme minimums and the FAO production which Croatia only appears as IMPORTATOR... I need to keep on ?? I don't know why you start this when I've argumented all I was saying... :indifferent:

Again you are lying.

Citrus plantations in Dalmatia.

Neretva_Ebene_Kroatien.jpg

plantaze_mandarina_uz_rukavce_neretve.jp

7719474.jpg

38805072.jpg

mandarine_px.jpg

1350199237mandarine_beraci8_121012.jpg

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Alicante

PS: And here you got the official FAO data for 2012 and past years of citrus cultivations:

http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/templates/est/COMM_MARKETS_MONITORING/Citrus/Documents/CITRUS_BULLETIN_2012.pdf

As you can see you only find Croatia in IMPORTATORS.

Like i've said before you have a very good climate and the best for all your area... but you accused me to much things and here I am to demonstrate that you are wrong.

I've putted the official climate charts for most extreme minimums and the FAO production which Croatia only appears as IMPORTATOR... I need to keep on ?? I don't know why you start this when I've argumented all I was saying... :indifferent:

Again you are lying.

Citrus plantations in Dalmatia.

Neretva_Ebene_Kroatien.jpg

plantaze_mandarina_uz_rukavce_neretve.jp

7719474.jpg

38805072.jpg

mandarine_px.jpg

1350199237mandarine_beraci8_121012.jpg

Please everyone state that i'm lying showing him the OFFICIAL FAO charts:

http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/templates/est/COMM_MARKETS_MONITORING/Citrus/Documents/CITRUS_BULLETIN_2012.pdf

Please press CTRL + F and search CROATIA, which ONLY belongs to "importators"

Croatia has no extended plantations of citrus, even lemons, because in this chart appears oranges tangerines and lemons, and Croatia doesn't appear in any of them:

USA 10 445.2

Mediterranean Region 22 441.1 :

Greece 1 093.8

Italy 3 203.5

Spain 6 627.0

Israel 466.2

and it appears Algeria, Egypt, Cyprus, Morocco etc

then Portugal, Japan, Costa Rica, etc... even El Salvador with only 71.5 (counting ALL types of citrus, not only oranges) appear, even El Salvador with only 71.5, look for example Italy wih 3.203 or Spain with 6.627

But man! I'm lying. Lying showing official reports :floor::floor::floor:

You just have lacked to say that Croatia is the main exportator of oranges in Europe to make it even funnier. Mate... I'm showing you the official marks from THE FOOD AND AGRICULTURE ORGANIZATION OF THE UNITED NATIONS. (FAO) But according to your statements im lying so I keep my opinion only based in official data so those FAO guys have to be lying... :indifferent:

Edited by pRoeZa*

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SouthSeaNate

pRoeZa* I think you should stop being so rude & claiming to know everything about other forum members climates from a few bits & pieces you find off the internet. And stop your obsession to try & discredit everyone elses climate to try & make yours look better, it is very immature...

Anyway getting back on topic...

It's raining here at the moment but the weekend looks warmer with sunshine thankfully :)

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Cikas

Yes you are right, I don't know so much (not nothing :winkie: ) about your climate. I just statted on the official temps.

You are agreeing to what i've been saying with plant other new trees every 3-4 years ... that's profituous. And those are local plantations not extended ones, you we're saying that in your country there are extended ones and i've showed you with the FAO official chart that you appear only as importator, the only extended producers from Europe are Spain, Italy, Greece and Cyprus.

You can check another time FAO's chart and you see Croatia only as IMPORTATOR. Croatia has no extended plantations. But even showing you the official numbers maked by the biggest organization of this kind in the world you even don't change your opinion and you keep on what you were saying... ok.. whatever you say buddy, the FAO is lying us :bummed:

Here you got the link: http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/templates/est/COMM_MARKETS_MONITORING/Citrus/Documents/CITRUS_BULLETIN_2012.pdf

Regards

Again like I said these data are wrong.

Croatia export citrus fruits. Our largest market was Russia. But because of EU sanctions to Russia, we had many problems in that area last year. People working on plantations were angry. They even protested and threw fruits in revolt.

And nope you are wrong. We do not have any problem growing any citrus species. They are not planted every few years.

They never die here because of the climate.

I find this very funny actually, because citrus species are the most common fruits here. They are everywere. :floor:

0_1413631388.jpg

3_rucno_branje_mandarina_u_dolini_neretv

1285703159berba.jpg

berba_mandarina.jpg

berba_mandarina_u_dolini_neretve.jpg

mandarine_berba1_J.jpg

Edited by Cikas

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Alicante

And one thing ma

pRoeZa* I think you should stop being so rude & claiming to know everything about other forum members climates from a few bits & pieces you find off the internet. And stop your obsession to try & discredit everyone elses climate to try & make yours look better, it is very immature...

I am not making that, tell me please where I am doing that, because I never said that thing... Quote me please where I am saying that my climate is "better" because in those last posts I only said the tropical species of Malaga - Almería zone which is not my zone... lol :floor:

I'm being rude ? This guy is saying that i'm lying and I am arguing with the FAO official marks. I've put the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations report for citrus production.

This is the 3rd time I say that Croatia has got a very good climate but it does not got extended plantations, what Cikas is saying and the FAO report don't agree with that... BTW

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SouthSeaNate

And one thing ma

pRoeZa* I think you should stop being so rude & claiming to know everything about other forum members climates from a few bits & pieces you find off the internet. And stop your obsession to try & discredit everyone elses climate to try & make yours look better, it is very immature...

I am not making that, tell me please where I am doing that, because I never said that thing... Quote me please where I am saying that my climate is "better" because in those last posts I only said the tropical species of Malaga - Almería zone which is not my zone... lol :floor:

I'm being rude ? This guy is saying that i'm lying and I am arguing with the FAO official marks. I've put the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations report for citrus production.

This is the 3rd time I say that Croatia has got a very good climate but it does not got extended plantations, what Cikas is saying and the FAO report don't agree with that... BTW

Anyone reading through this thread can see exactly what you have been doing...

Please just stop & keep the thread on topic.

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Alicante

Yes you are right, I don't know so much (not nothing :winkie: ) about your climate. I just statted on the official temps.

You are agreeing to what i've been saying with plant other new trees every 3-4 years ... that's profituous. And those are local plantations not extended ones, you we're saying that in your country there are extended ones and i've showed you with the FAO official chart that you appear only as importator, the only extended producers from Europe are Spain, Italy, Greece and Cyprus.

You can check another time FAO's chart and you see Croatia only as IMPORTATOR. Croatia has no extended plantations. But even showing you the official numbers maked by the biggest organization of this kind in the world you even don't change your opinion and you keep on what you were saying... ok.. whatever you say buddy, the FAO is lying us :bummed:

Here you got the link: http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/templates/est/COMM_MARKETS_MONITORING/Citrus/Documents/CITRUS_BULLETIN_2012.pdf

Regards

Again like I said these data are wrong.

Croatia export citrus fruits. Our largest market was Russia. But because of EU sanctions to Russia, we had many problems in that area last year. People working on plantations were angry. They even protested and threw fruits in revolt.

And nope you are wrong. We do not have any problem growing any citrus species. They are not planted every few years.

They never die here bercause of the climate.

I find this very funny actually, because citrus species are the most common fruits here. They are everywere. :floor:

Mate... that report is from 2012 and it appear all the data from 1990 to 2011. In 2012 those Russian sanctions doesn't existed. Yes, you make citrus, I am saying this everytime but you're wrong saying that are in extended plantations !!! You even not checked the link but you say i'm lying... :bummed:

When I say extended I am referring to wide-extended geography plantations that are intended for export. Croatia even can't cover his own intern market needings and needs to import citrus. If you think i'm lying ok, I don't win anything doing it; because I am arguing in official data not "data I invent" like it appears to be what you're doing. The official FAO report only puts croatia on Importators so you don't have any important plantations for export. Cyprus is a small country and it appears, El Salvador is even smaller and only makes "72" and it appears on the chart, Italy makes "3.203" and Spain "6.627" I don't know if those are thousands or million tones.

I'm only arguing what the FAO says but whatever... this is nonesenseless and we can stop this right here, this not goes with the thread title.

Edited by pRoeZa*

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