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Rafael

2014/2015 Winter in south Europe

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Rafael

This is the worst winter since i began growing palms.

Last night record low here -0,4C.

I had to "build" some protections, despite being late...

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Phoenikakias

Next week southern Greek is expected to get hit by another more severe cold spell :crying: I think it is time that I get on Saturday some precaution measures!

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Kostas

Hope everything recovers fine and fast Rafael and Giuseppe

-1C predicted for tonight but staying 3C above predictions, at an ok 4C so far. Doubt the garden will see 0C tonight, it's a nice, calm night that doesn't feel that cold thankfully and canopy should help.

Predictions are bad for a couple nights next week here as well but hope it doesn't get that low here(-2C forecasted).

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Phoenikakias

Today at 9:30 am on Lycabettus hill in the city of Athens, ice!!!! :sick::sick:

post-6141-0-20723700-1420273895_thumb.jppost-6141-0-08393900-1420273925_thumb.jp

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Kostas

Frost formed last night on my neighboring property and temperature got down to 1C, maybe even 0C somewhere(?). No visible frost on my plants but some banana leafs were drying from cold damage. Carpoxylon and Veitchia show really minor to no damage. Let's see what this coming week will bring...Hope the forecast changes for the better

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gyuseppe
also from me ,the leaves of banana have burned in the cold
but leaves of Strelitzia giant have not burned ,are still all beautiful green

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Phoenikakias

I have sailed through recent cold spell without apparent casualties yet thanks to the altitude (138 m), and the strong wind. A strong gust must have pushed a wooden pannel several meters away from the green pole to which it was leaning.

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Only a km more inland and at sea level temps dived to -3 C!. Also recent cold spell was a ' dry one' with dew point always several degrees C below actual temperature. But this week the real deal is coming to my area directly from Russia with love!Go figure out, it may snow also in the islands and northern Crete!!!

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I have already started wrapping the most sensitive of my palms.

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Kostas

So far nothing spectacular as far as lows go, pretty mild thankfully and should stay above 0C in Pyrgos. A couple more nights of -1C predicted but hope it doesn't reach that low

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Exotic Life

Cold stuff going on in southern Europe, here in northwest europe conditions stay calm and mild compared our averages. Just a few days after christmas I had some snow and my first frost after nearly 22 months without any subzero temperatures!

It was mild before, and it is mild afterwards as well. No frost in sight at all!

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siafu

Hi,

I've been following the GFS weather model and it seems a new cold air mass

is in the pipeline for around the 17th of January. This one extends as far south as Madeira and

will sweep most of southern Europe.

Unless, the model changes dramatically in the next couple of days, we should all be prepared...

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Kostas

Thanks for the warning! Hopefully it never makes it down. So far things stay relatively ok, but we are having more cold nights than average in the warm regions. Thankfully not too cold so far

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Phoenikakias

We are already on razor's edge here! Southeastern Greece is rather affected by different, local though very disastrous cold spells, like the actual one. Atlantic is to far way to play a decisive role like in Portugal or even the rest of western Europe.

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Kostas

A brief dip to -2.1C in Pyrgos was recorded at dawn by the local weather station. Don't know the actual temperature my garden saw(could be much worse, could be better) but I am a little worried of what I will see when I visit again in a little less than a month...

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Phoenikakias

This day is going to be crucial for Attica. For the first time I have noticed frost on grass on Lycabettus hill. Pictures taken at 12:30 pm today.

post-6141-0-46382100-1420645293_thumb.jppost-6141-0-93455300-1420645324_thumb.jp

Of course after today's terrorist attack, I am not anymore so concerned about a frost, since our very own civilization is apparently at stake and 500 years of spiritual and cultural progress (since the renaissance) as well!

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gyuseppe
yesterday and today little frost on grass
minimum temperatures below 0

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dalmatiansoap

Spear pulling on daily bases :(

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Kostas

Going for below 0C again in Pyrgos...

Really sorry to hear that Ante

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Rafael

After my complaints, things got better here, temps always above 2C and i am already working on transplanting and canopy strategy.

Besides that, i am with Konstantinos's words about the tragedy in France...

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Kostas

1,6C last night's low and back to the normal lows from now on

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gyuseppe
this morning no frost, temperatures above 0 degrees

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Phoenikakias

Recent sibirian cold blast is over, but I am considering keeping still wrapped up all of my covered up plants for the rest of the month. It is sooooo tiresome for me to wrap up alone quite big palms. This seems up to now a severe winter and I would not be surprised if this January reserves for us another frozen surprise! Your opinions please... In the picture below you may see in the background my wrapped Chrysalidocarpus clamp.

post-6141-0-99007700-1420819275_thumb.jp

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smithgn

phoenikakias- I feel your pain, phile! Hoping for the best your way. It is extremely tiresome to keep wrapping my palms up, but they aren't probably quite as big as what you have... It'll be worthit in the end, though. I thought that it was rare that cold fronts as severe as this passes through mainland Greece? Could it happen a second time and has it in the recent past? Hang in there!

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Rafael

Recent sibirian cold blast is over, but I am considering keeping still wrapped up all of my covered up plants for the rest of the month. It is sooooo tiresome for me to wrap up alone quite big palms. This seems up to now a severe winter and I would not be surprised if this January reserves for us another frozen surprise! Your opinions please... In the picture below you may see in the background my wrapped Chrysalidocarpus clamp.

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I hope no more bad cold front is coming this winter. For sure not a siberian one, like this incredible event...

Next monday i will begin some necessary changes in my tender stuff garden.

No time to loose...

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Kostas

Did you have loses Rafael, or only damage?

I am not seeing anything bad in the forecast, hope we get no more for this winter and warm days arrive for fast recovery. I have no clue how things are in Pyrgos as far as damage goes

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Rafael

Did you have loses Rafael, or only damage?

I am not seeing anything bad in the forecast, hope we get no more for this winter and warm days arrive for fast recovery. I have no clue how things are in Pyrgos as far as damage goes

Palms in the ground for more than one year - some leaf damage on kentiopsis and archontophoenix tuckery and purpurae. Illawara, pseudophoenix, ptychosperma, ravenea krociana, dypsis decarii, bismarckia, between many others, untouched.

Stuff in the ground since September - a couple of seedling losses and extensive damage on many others. I planted them too early.

Now i am about to transplant some recent stuff and plant a couple of queens, next to the edge of this upstairs yard.

Minimum here, -0,4 C/31F, one night.....

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Kostas

You got leaf damage on Kentiopsis? So far they have been hardier than Archontophoenix for me. Funny how Ptychosperma did not damage. R. krociana have been a great surprise with their hardiness, mine are untouched after fierce freezing winds and prolonged night lows of -1C in Melissia(as potted seedlings), where I would expect them to be all brown and dieing.... Gaussia maya defoliated at the same conditions, and it's supposedly a somewhat hardy species. Feeling great for our krociana surviving long term!

I will report as well when I visit the garden, that -2C totally surprised me cause it wasn't that close to 0C that night, it suddenly dipped below 0C for 4h, 2 of which below -1C. Due to the short duration, I am hopeful that things won't be too too bad, at least hope for no lasting damage.

Happy planting Rafael!!! :) I will be bring and planting stuff myself as well, ferns mainly and maybe a Parajubaea cocoides and Gaussia maya as well

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Rafael

You got leaf damage on Kentiopsis? So far they have been hardier than Archontophoenix for me. Funny how Ptychosperma did not damage. R. krociana have been a great surprise with their hardiness, mine are untouched after fierce freezing winds and prolonged night lows of -1C in Melissia(as potted seedlings), where I would expect them to be all brown and dieing.... Gaussia maya defoliated at the same conditions, and it's supposedly a somewhat hardy species. Feeling great for our krociana surviving long term!

I will report as well when I visit the garden, that -2C totally surprised me cause it wasn't that close to 0C that night, it suddenly dipped below 0C for 4h, 2 of which below -1C. Due to the short duration, I am hopeful that things won't be too too bad, at least hope for no lasting damage.

Happy planting Rafael!!! :) I will be bring and planting stuff myself as well, ferns mainly and maybe a Parajubaea cocoides and Gaussia maya as well

The kentiopsis got some leaf damage, but this one is planted exposedily and is a small juvenille, it was its second winter.

The illawara is a total surprise. Planted one in my downstairs yard, exposed to some frost and unscathed.....

I have gaussia maya ready to go too and i will add many more stuff, going on a new spanish PRA soon :)

Happy planting to you too Konstantinos :)

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Kostas

Kentiopsis should be fine, they are sturdy, though slow. Wish yours fast recovery!

It's great that Illawara was unscathed from frost!

Thanks Rafael! Sounds like you have a lot of fun planned ahead! Enjoy,I will be looking forward to pictures of the PRA and new plantings!!! :)

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SouthSeaNate

Lowest I recorded in the New Year cold snap was 6.0C, but the airport dropped to 2.1C on the morning of the 31st, which is a new record low for December & just 0.6C higher than the lowest ever temperature!

Also the Malta Weather Service are warning of another cold snap for the Mediterranean the end of next week, hopefully it either doesn't materialise or it wont be as cold as the last one!

Temperatures have warmed up here since to around 16C/17C most days & today 18C, so another cold snap will be a shock to the system :sick:

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Kostas

If Malta remains so warm, how come no coconuts? Would love to see photos of real tropicals from Malta :)

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siafu

If Malta remains so warm, how come no coconuts? Would love to see photos of real tropicals from Malta :)

If coconuts do require soil temperature at or above 16C then it explains why there are none in S. Europe or even the Mediterranean.

Average temperatures in the winter months are well below 16C at these latitudes, so the soil will be just as cold, hence no coconuts.

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siafu

Also the Malta Weather Service are warning of another cold snap for the Mediterranean the end of next week, hopefully it either doesn't materialise or it wont be as cold as the last one!

It's for sure the cold front GFS was already predicting several days ago. Indeed, that cold it's looking rather likely.

However, according to the latest GFS run, this cold event will target mainly Iberia. Oh well...

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Kostas

Doesn't need to be coconuts, a nice Veitchia joannis would do or whatever zone 10a/b/11a Palm or tree. I am sure it's warm enough, but who doesn't like photos! :)

Btw, Cocos are not problematic here till we get below 0C

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SouthSeaNate

Also the Malta Weather Service are warning of another cold snap for the Mediterranean the end of next week, hopefully it either doesn't materialise or it wont be as cold as the last one!

It's for sure the cold front GFS was already predicting several days ago. Indeed, that cold it's looking rather likely.

However, according to the latest GFS run, this cold event will target mainly Iberia. Oh well...

Not good news for Iberia, but better news for the rest of the Med...

If Malta remains so warm, how come no coconuts? Would love to see photos of real tropicals from Malta :)

Doesn't need to be coconuts, a nice Veitchia joannis would do or whatever zone 10a/b/11a Palm or tree. I am sure it's warm enough, but who doesn't like photos! :)

Btw, Cocos are not problematic here till we get below 0C

To be honest I don't think anyone has ever tried a coconut here, or many other palms for that matter! All you ever see are Washingtonia & Phoenix, with the odd Syagrus romanzoffiana, obviously there are others but not seen commonly, such as Howea forsteriana & Archontophoenix. There isn't much availability here unfortunately...

I did plan on trialing a coconut myself, I'm sure if planted in a protected spot, south facing & sheltered from northerly winds, it may be possible, even if the ground needs a covering of black plastic during the winter months...

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Alicante

Here in my city in Spain we've got about 2 weeks ago the second lowest temperatures I recorded after the cold wave on 2012 (which was a little little bit colder)

Here we got one day 3,6ºC and the next day we got 4,2ºC. After that 5,5ºC and now we have the normal ones (about 17-18-19ºC at day and 7-8ºC at night) even the last sunday we got 24-25ºC :o! it was like returning to april... very beautiful.

In 2012 we arrived to 3,5ºC. I think that the small populations of Archontophoenix and Roystoneas we have here doesn't enjoyed very much that night... but they recovered next day, because next day the minimum was 4,2ºC but the maximum was 19 !!! (the thousands and thousands of km2 with plantations of oranges and all the syagrus won't suffered much... 3,6ºC is not very bad for them if that occurs 1 day at year heheh)

Now we are going trough normals. Specially in this zone there are a lot a lot lot of syagrus romanzoffiana. In some places you think you are near San Diego, CA or something because every house has at least one ! But Roystoneas are quite rare, and archontophoenix even more. But all the roystoneas i've seen around here are green and healthy, so I hope it keeps on that.

We won't had any temps under the freezing mark in the last 30 years. I hope this extends 30 years more !! I've never seen temperatures under 3ºC at this place and I hope that is not gonna happening ever :floor:

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Phoenikakias

I have checked the max-min thermometer in my garden today. It registered a barely above 2 C minimum temperature during recent cold spell. Nevertheless all totally exposed Pritchardia show some very minor damage. I suppose it has to do with the strong northern wind, but they do not show at all any signs of dehydration as is the case with a hillebrandii in a very recent topic about a freeze event in Corona Ca. Another Pritchardia (lowreyana) slightly more protected through house and a Magnolia tree sailed just through! Also the Coccothrinax miraguama is perkier than ever!

Edited by Phoenikakias

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gyuseppe
Konstantinos even here temperatures quite good, not frost,but winter and still long

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Rafael

I have checked the max-min thermometer in my garden today. It registered a barely above 2 C minimum temperature during recent cold spell. Nevertheless all totally exposed Pritchardia show some very minor damage. I suppose it has to do with the strong northern wind, but they do not show at all any signs of dehydration as is the case with a hillebrandii in a very recent topic about a freeze event in Corona Ca. Another Pritchardia (lowreyana) slightly more protected through house and a Magnolia tree sailed just through! Also the Coccothrinax miraguama is perkier than ever!

Konstantinos, do you think the prichardia hillebrandii should be watered during a dry and cold winter? Mine are showing some leaf damage, i think due to dehydration... And absolute minimum -0,4C

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Phoenikakias

Without having conducted any experiment of this kind, my past experience suggests that I should answer negatively to your question. Winter in central-south eastern Greece is distinguished through an often northern, dry and (of course) cold, bone-chilling wind. Ok, every wind not coming directly from a hot/warm desert area may cause more or less during a cool season the wind chill effect to a variable extent (I still remember the 'cool' atlantic wind during early April in Lisboa), but the real bone - chilling, northern, strong, dry wind ( not reaching yet freezing temps though) is a couple levels more serious (you just have to visit Paris at or near Xmas time to get an idea of what I am trying to say!). Well under such conditions my Pritchardia specimens have spent many times the winter time and most times though receiving only the occasional rain water, remain without damage. On the other hand the very severe and rare cold spell in 2004 caught me with pants down, meaning that dripping system was still on (though with a winter adjusted set-up) and all palms were getting watered at a regular frequency. Well I did not notice any benefit from this fact plus that additionally to damaged or dead palms I had also three destroyed watertimers. Also theoretically a palm in hibernation is, given or taken, less prone to cold damage than one actively growing and suddenly getting exposed to (or near) freezing temps. In this context also I can not see the benefit of watering a palm and thus motivating it to continue or resume growth in the 17 to 20's C, while it is known that within following hours temps will dip dramatically! Of course all those remarks are made in the light of my climate. In another climate with very short-lasting cold snaps and dramatic temp rise, answer may be different though...

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Rafael

Without having conducted any experiment of this kind, my past experience suggests that I should answer negatively to your question. Winter in central-south eastern Greece is distinguished through an often northern, dry and (of course) cold, bone-chilling wind. Ok, every wind not coming directly from a hot/warm desert area may cause more or less during a cool season the wind chill effect to a variable extent (I still remember the 'cool' atlantic wind during early April in Lisboa), but the real bone - chilling, northern, strong, dry wind ( not reaching yet freezing temps though) is a couple levels more serious (you just have to visit Paris at or near Xmas time to get an idea of what I am trying to say!). Well under such conditions my Pritchardia specimens have spent many times the winter time and most times though receiving only the occasional rain water, remain without damage. On the other hand the very severe and rare cold spell in 2004 caught me with pants down, meaning that dripping system was still on (though with a winter adjusted set-up) and all palms were getting watered at a regular frequency. Well I did not notice any benefit from this fact plus that additionally to damaged or dead palms I had also three destroyed watertimers. Also theoretically a palm in hibernation is, given or taken, less prone to cold damage than one actively growing and suddenly getting exposed to (or near) freezing temps. In this context also I can not see the benefit of watering a palm and thus motivating it to continue or resume growth in the 17 to 20's C, while it is known that within following hours temps will dip dramatically! Of course all those remarks are made in the light of my climate. In another climate with very short-lasting cold snaps and dramatic temp rise, answer may be different though...

I am growing P. Hillebrandii since 2 years ago and the last winter it suffered few to no damage at 0C. This one, with -0,4C, but this siberian-tipe and dry cold spell, it has maybe 40% exposed leaves damage (showing a sort of dehydration look). I dont know what to expect the next winter and what to do. Btw thanks to your detailed answer :)

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