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Rafael

2014/2015 Winter in south Europe

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Rafael

Something not usually extensively shared and discussed on palmtalk.

Kind of an observatory, sharing record lows and other usefull climate data.

I would suggest a previous report about the before-winter.

Here's mine: it was a late november and december unusually cold, without cloud covered sky and temps getting down to 2C/35,6F, once.

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dalmatiansoap

On the other side we had unusually warm nov/dec period until now. Last night we had low of 5C with cold front coming tomorrow and forecasts are extremly dangerous predicting zero to subzero temperatures for 2-3 days around New Years eve. Even light snow carried by North winds!

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Phoenikakias

I agree with Ante. A polar vortex is about open towards southern Europe :sick:

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gyuseppe
in the next few days, have a house forecast of -3 degrees celsius, we hope that the predictions are wrong
is in arrive the BURIAN cold wind from russia, which was missing from for 13 years!

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Kostas

I am on the same page with Ante, Konstantinos and Giuseppe, -1C predicted for Pyrgos next Friday, hope it changes for the better and never reaches this temperature here.

Last winter started with some cold early on, then it was pretty mild but still got the usual few frosts. I got only slight damage on my more sensitive palms.

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SouthSeaNate

Has been warm up to now in Malta & was 18C on Christmas day. Lowest I have recorded so far is 11.7C, but like the rest of the central Mediterranean we are forecast a taste of winter here next week, with daytime highs reaching only 12C/13C & lows down to 7C/8C, not so cold on paper but with the strong cold winds & rain it will feel horrible :sick:

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Kostas

Had 19C here the day before Christmas, it's been pretty cold today but south winds kicked up and it's nice and warm now outside. Shame it's predicted to be a cold week and it will cool down fast in early morning again.

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gyuseppe
today is not very cold here, but very cold in northern Italy
we hope that the predictions are wrong for the next days!

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Kostas

Today it's been nice after a night of fierce winds and heavy downpours.

Got 2 nights of -1C on the forecast, hope I dont see that low temperatures in my garden.

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_Rob_

Western Europe has had its share already...1 day late but we 'enjoyed' 12-15 cm of X-mas snow within 12 hrs locally with a min of -3.6.

UK and Germany were also hit pretty hard.

Conditions are improving slowly over next days, to 3-6° daytime temp, with cold moving towards you guys.

Hope you guys stay clear of what we have been seeing.

Most plants are inside or protected as normally, so we should be OK.

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SouthSeaNate

The forecast for Malta has now been revised & the 31st is forecast to be extremely cold, infact it could equal the coldest daytime temperature ever recorded here, as a max of just 8C is expected, with lows of 4C, but this will be in more inland areas so where I live at the coast it should not be as cold as this thankfully.

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SouthSeaNate

Snow & freezing temperatures are forecast for Sicily on Wednesday, even in Palermo! I hope the Botanical Gardens are prepared...

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Rafael

Unusual cold here. 0,5C, dry, no frost so far...

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Phoenikakias

So fare we had low of 2C but its a wind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bora_%28wind%29) thats killing us. Aprox. speed of 70-80km/h and gusts up to 150 km/h makes realfeel down to -10C. And we have 3 more days to go.

IMAG3031_zpsee8qougu.jpg

At least we do not face in Europe a similiarly severe wind as the so called 'cow killing wind' of northern Iran.

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Kostas

Rafael, wish you to not see any lower!

The forecast keeps getting worse...I will try to load up on frost cloth for the predicted Thursday and Friday's freezes of -2C and -1C, the garden is looking pretty nice and wish to keep it that way!

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gyuseppe

The forecast keeps getting worse

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Phoenikakias

Rafael, wish you to not see any lower!

The forecast keeps getting worse...I will try to load up on frost cloth for the predicted Thursday and Friday's freezes of -2C and -1C, the garden is looking pretty nice and wish to keep it that way!

SCREAMMMMMM......... I am really at a loss. Special forecast for the region of my garden does not look that bad only a 4 C minimum (OK let also accept that it may fall to 2 C exactly in my garden), but I see everywhere around me the ... Thule! I start getting the creeps, what if prediction changes on the last moment to the worse? Maybe I load up also frost cloth...

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Phoenikakias

Half an hour ago -1 C with blizard on the national highway near the spot of the Kapandriti toll station. Meanwhile 4 C in downtown Athens and wet but not rainy anymore...

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dalmatiansoap

-1C early morning, bummer.

  • Upvote 1

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gyuseppe
Today the minimum temperatures are of 0 degrees
but tomorrow morning the predictions are for -3 degrees!

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Kostas

So far I am staying 3 degrees above the predictions, at a nice 6C. If this trend continues, It may be enough to keep my garden at a nice 2C instead of -1C predicted for Thursday. I did load up on frost cloth though...

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SouthSeaNate

Today is the coldest December day in Malta since 1988 & it could still officially be the coldest day ever recorded, will have to wait until the airport weather station figures are in at the end of the day.There last night it dropped to 4.1C & in my back garden at the coast it dropped to 6.8C, but today has been bitterly cold with showers of rain & soft hail (causing many to believe it was snowing) & a high here so far of just 9C...

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Rafael

The last three days the minimum was 0,5C.

I didnt notice any frost, but this morning i had a bad surprise: all my archontophoenix alex, tuckery and myolensis have 70% leaves burned. And the kentia is stressed too.

On the other hand lots of sensitive stuff is untouched....

I guess this is a rare and singular event...

So far i am unable to understand it.

Giuseppe, what do you know about this cold wave?

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gyuseppe
This morning the official data speak of - 1 degree registered
but today it is much colder, is fall also little snow! rare event here
Tomorrow I do not expect anything good

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gyuseppe

Rafal in winters past ,to when down ,the minimum temperatures from you?

Kostas I am happy for you :)
but I would be much happier if a little of cold, instead of coming here, coming from you :)
(obviously I joke)

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Phoenikakias

Rafa, I hate to say it really, but I am sure you already know it. If 70% damage becomes visible so soon, you have to count in the future with an almost complete defoliation. However situation is not as bad as it looks, so long meristem and spear leaf remain healthy. Archos are known to grow fast in an oceanic climate like yours, and so they will replace fast all brown leaves. As for the causes of the damage I suspect that air temps may have remained above 0 C but not on the surface of the leaves. There formed water could have been evaporated through cold, dry northern wind and thus directly surrounding air temp may have dropped additionally a couple degrees, which means that tolerance limit for those Archos had been reached...

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gyuseppe
Konstantinos is how are the temperatures from you ? please updates

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Rafael

Rafa, I hate to say it really, but I am sure you already know it. If 70% damage becomes visible so soon, you have to count in the future with an almost complete defoliation. However situation is not as bad as it looks, so long meristem and spear leaf remain healthy. Archos are known to grow fast in an oceanic climate like yours, and so they will replace fast all brown leaves. As for the causes of the damage I suspect that air temps may have remained above 0 C but not on the surface of the leaves. There formed water could have been evaporated through cold, dry northern wind and thus directly surrounding air temp may have dropped additionally a couple degrees, which means that tolerance limit for those Archos had been reached...

thanks Konstantinos for the complete explanation of what might have happened.

I had experiences growing cunninghamiana in my cooler yard (where temps drop below -3, from times to times) and unsucessfully, off course.

In this other place temps never dropped below 0 since 2010 and there is a sheltered position.

Some of these archontophoenix did fine the last winters with temps hiting 0,5 of 1C.

But now this is quite different, that's a cold and dry air, i dont remember experiencing before.

I know all my archontophoenix will recover nicely, but i am devastated knowing this will happen again someday...

Btw, stuff like euterpe and dictyosperma are fine....

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SouthSeaNate

Well today in Malta it wasn't quite as cold to equal the coldest ever daytime high, but it was the coldest December night in 26 years... Tonight is going to be very chilly too.

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Rafael

Rafal in winters past ,to when down ,the minimum temperatures from you?

Kostas I am happy for you :)

but I would be much happier if a little of cold, instead of coming here, coming from you :)

(obviously I joke)

Giuseppe, last 4 winters temps never dropped below 0 here and all 10a and 10b stuff survived nicely.

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Kostas

Rafael, what damaged your Archontophoenix is probably frost or bad windchill. Windchill can do a lot of damage as it speeds up temperature transduction. They may do fine with recorded temperatures much lower and no wind cause their tissues never cool down to those temperature during the little time these lows occur. But with wind, their tissues cool down fast and damaging temperatures are reached fast, thus all tissues having cooled to those temperatures, die. So expect to loose most leaflets but the rachis and any more protected leaf surfaces, should survive.

I am really sorry you got this damage, it's never nice :(

Thankfully so far I am staying around 4-6C. Tomorrow and the day after tomorrow I have -1C on the forecast, but I am still staying 3C above the forecast :)

Giuseppe, you can send all the cold air you like to Eastern Greece, Western Greece is shielded by Pindos mountains :)

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Phoenikakias

Kostas, may I remind to you that Pindos protects western Greece from the eastern cold air flows and not from the very rare western ones. I think however that this cold spell is a very rare western one... There is a whole recent debate in the EPS as to how a strong cold wind affects negatively palms, and the the theory of wind chill has been rejected , as it applies only on warm blooded animals.

Giuseppe, I have long given up monitoring temperature fluctuation after the damages I have suffered in the past. I know how low it can fall the temperature in my garden and what probable losses are gonna be. I only care for a correct forecast so that I can take in time the precaution measures. There is a weather station connected to wunderground about 5 Km away from my garden. It may be nearer to sea but my garden is at a higher altitude (138 m above sea level) If you are interested you may take a look at : http://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=I833

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Kostas

I am actually having Eastern winds, which are always the coldest for my region. Still not too cold :)

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Kostas

Wind chill does apply to plants, as it cools them down from their previous warmer temperature faster than they would if there was no wind. Thus their tissues cool down to the ambient temperature faster and the plants get damaged if that is too cold. While in nights with no wind and only short term lows, the plant tissues never actually reach the recorded lows and can escape the damage in a brief freeze. It's not that the plant produce heat like animals, it's that they start with a higher temperature thanks to the previous higher prevailing temperares

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Kostas

So far so good, lots of cold wind but 4-5C during the night, staying 3C above the forecast. 11C now already. Tonight i have 0C on the forecast, would be great if it never happens...

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gyuseppe

Today the temperature slightly higher,Yesterday the minimum temperatures have dropped to -2,

is so far only visible damage about 40% of burning leaves on my archontophoenix cunninghamiana

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Kostas

Sorry to hear that Giuseppe :( How did your other 9b/10a marginals fare? Did you have -2C + wind or just a short radiational freeze?

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gyuseppe

Sorry to hear that Giuseppe :( How did your other 9b/10a marginals fare? Did you have -2C + wind or just a short radiational freeze?

Kostantinos yesterday morning we had frost with little snow
last night dry air with very cold wind
I do not cultivate species of nearly zone 10a,all died in winters past

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dalmatiansoap

Dry cold! Went down to -3C two nights ago with wind up to 160km/h. Horror!

Edited by dalmatiansoap

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