Rhapis humilis from Seed

[Alicehunter2000]

Has anyone else grown these from seed. Wasn't this once thought not to be possible because all the plants were thought to be female? Here is a small one that just grew its first adult leaf.

Anybody have anything bigger grown from seed?

[Mandrew968]

David, I also heard there was only one gender, but that all in cultivation were male... I am curious as to haow you may have set viable seed? Are you sure it's not a hybrid? I bet it would not be easy to discern a real humilis from a multifida/humilis hybrid...

[tank]

RPS had R. humilis seed for sale a little while back.

http://www.rarepalmseeds.com/pix/RhaHum.shtml

[Mandrew968]

Tank, that photo on their website does not look like humilis to me--thought the leaflets were thin like multifida...

[tank]

Tank, that photo on their website does not look like humilis to me--thought the leaflets were thin like multifida...

Don't know, just remembered when they listed these. I think there may be an old thread that discussed R. humilis when RPS listed the seed for sale.

[Alicehunter2000]

I think RPS is where the seed came from.

[Pal Meir]

I grew some Rhapis humulis from seed in 2004. At present I still own only one specimen, now in its 11th year. You can see a photo of this, taken last year and posted at my Flickr account:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/14818036442/in/set-72157636010262104

PS

In the past all Rh. humilis were supposed to be male, not female.

[John Case]

_{The photos in this thread do not look like Rh. humilis to me...perhaps multifida, but I suspect some hybridization..there are tons of photos available on the interweb of this plant and they look distinctly different to this untrained eye.}

[Pal Meir]

At least my Rh. humilis seeds and seedling looked very different from Rhapis multifida (and other Rh. species) I also grew up at the same time.

Greetings from Germany,

PM, growing palms since 1958

[Pal Meir]

_{The photos in this thread do not look like Rh. humilis to me...perhaps multifida, but I suspect some hybridization..there are tons of photos available on the interweb of this plant and they look distinctly different to this untrained eye.}

Hello John, it is likely that you are correct: The seeds I received in 2004 from RPS were labled as Rhapis humilis, but now after having checked all my literature on Rhapis and the internet I am also doubtful whether this label was correct. My Rhapis »humilis« (and maybe also others) might be rather Rhapis micrantha, according to the description published by Laura H. Hastings (2003) in PALMS 47(2): 68-69.

[gyuseppe]

_{Le foto in questa discussione non assomigliano Rh. humilis di me ... forse multifida, ma ho il sospetto che alcuni hybridization..there sono tonnellate di foto disponibili sul interweb di questa pianta e guardano nettamente diverso per questo occhio non allenato.}

Sono cresciuto alcuni humulis Rhapis da seme nel 2004. Al momento ho ancora un solo esemplare, giunto alla sua 11 ° anno. Potete vedere una foto di questo, preso l'anno scorso e pubblicato il mio account Flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/14818036442/in/set-72157636010262104

PS

In passato tutto Rh. humilis avrebbero dovuto essere di sesso maschile , non femminile.

one my Rhapis humilis, aged 10, is about 1.30 meters high and have many suckers

but I think you're lucky to have a species uncommon

Edited April 16, 2015 by gyuseppe

[Alicehunter2000]

Didn't that guy Garystn? from China say that there are indeed male and female R. humilis in China?

[Pal Meir]

Since the discovery of the natural habitat of Rhapis humilis in Sichuan and Guangxi in the 1990s there are also female Palms known. Before that time there were spread only specimens mostly cultivated in Japan which were without exception male and propagated by dividing of suckers.

[Alicehunter2000]

Thanks Pal. Maybe this is where RPS are getting their seeds from currently.

[Pal Meir]

I have posted a newer photo of my Rhapis »humilis« / micrantha (?) at my Flickr account. So you can compare your palm with mine in the future, hoping it might be a real R. humilis and not a R. micrantha. Once when it blooms we can definitely decide what species of Rhapis it may be.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/16990918020

On this photo you can see better the shape of the leaves. And the first stem of Rhapis palms is always much thinner than later stems resulting from suckering. This may be one reason why it is hard to compare with other adult Rh. humilis palms which are all resulting from suckers.

[Pal Meir]

After having read again the article by Hastings in PALMS 47(2) I am doubtful if also my Rhapis »excelsa« (grown up from seeds I received from RPS in 2004 too) are really R. excelsa. According to the characteristics compiled by Hastings they seem to be rather R. humilis:

"Rhapis humilis can be distinguished from R. excelsa

by the leaf sheaths with intact ligule and neat

fibers, closely sheathing the stem; blade semi-

circular in outline, segments tapering at the apex

with less regular secondary splitting, palman more

conspicuous; … (Hastings 2003: 70-71)

Here the newest photos of my (two) R. »excelsa« or rather »humilis«(?):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/17232928841

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/16612500504

But when all these palms will be in flower some time we might be able to decide whether the labels of RPS were right or wrong.

[Alicehunter2000]

Hmm, so even if they taper to a point it might be a varient, thats not multifida, of R. excelsa?

[Phoenikakias]

Alone from segments apices I can say with certainty it is not an excelsa!

From right to left Rhapis humilis, Rhapis excelsa (the small plant in the center) and Rhapis subtilis(?) (or rather Rhapis subtilis x laosensis). Anyway the difference between excelsa and humilis is adequately apparent.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Phoenikakias

[Pal Meir]

It is not R. multifida; I had some of them, they were distinctly different. But I gave away all my palms (300-400 or so) to botanical gradens and private collectors in 2008. Only because 2 Rhapis »excelsa« and 1 Rhapis »humilis« (micrantha?) were infected by mealybugs I didn't gave them away, but treated them at home. These are the Rhapis palms on the photos at my Flickr account. (At present I have grown up again some Lytocaryum weddelianum and L. insigne for study of the differences between these 2 palm species.)

Also the remarks by Hastings under "Rhapis excelsa" show more similarity of my R. »excelsa« with R. humilis:

Rhapis excelsa differs from R. humilis in having

outer leaf sheaths loosely sheathing the stem,

ligule not remaining intact at maturity producing

many detached fibers; blade varying from both

semi-circular to V-shaped in outline, thicker in

texture and a paler, more yellow-green in colour

in dried specimens, often with fewer segments,

segments straighter sided with truncate apices and

more regular dentate secondary splitting, palman

less conspicuous. While individual differences in

the vegetative characters are difficult to pinpoint

between R. excelsa and R. humilis, when all the

vegetative characters are taken as a whole the

leaves can be distinguished easily. Inflorescence

characters are more noticeably different …

(Hastings 2003: 67-68)

But whether the descriptions made by Hastings are correct is another problem …

In an earlier entry I wrote that the natural habitat of R. humilis is Sichuan and Guangxi. That might be not correct because the habitat in Sichuan was Mt. Omei, a location of a monastery. It seems that besides Guangxi also Guizhou (between Guangxi and Sichuan) is another natural habitat. Otherwise cited Vietnam (the probable source of my R. »humilis« / micrantha) is also doubtful.

[Phoenikakias]

I do not know whether R excelsa has ''more yellow green'' fronds ''in dried specimens'' (herbarium?!?!?!), but living ones have the darkest green possible leaves (in shade of course) in this genus.

[Pal Meir]

Has anyone else grown these from seed. Wasn't this once thought not to be possible because all the plants were thought to be female? Here is a small one that just grew its first adult leaf.

20141218_075832.jpg

Anybody have anything bigger grown from seed?

Hallo again, your small Rhapis looks really like my Rhapis multifida almost 4 years since germination:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/9857621154/in/album-72157636010262104/

[Pal Meir]

I have posted a new photo of my Rhapis (RPS 2004: »excelsa«), showing details of the stem with intact old ligules. So this 11 years old Rhapis can not be a R. excelsa, but has to be a R. humilis if we rely on the article by Hastings (2003) in Palms 47(2):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/17229367336/in/set-72157652136494401

There are now 2 individuals: one taller (maybe a male tree?) and one suckering (a female?). I will try to get them blooming and make many children.

[Pal Meir]

Also the latest leaf of my Rhapis humilis (grown up from seed in March 2004) shows the for this species typical shape:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/17308369569

[Pal Meir]

I have found an older pic of my 2 Rhapis humilis, still as seedlings (back & right, together with 1 R micrantha on the left):

And here an update of these 2 Rhapis humilis, now together in a 28cm (≈4gal) container:

[sarasota alex]

And here an update of these 2 Rhapis humilis, now together in a 28cm (≈4gal) container:

Rhapis humilis 2015-07-26.jpg

Pal Meir, I'm pretty confident that the palm in your last photo is Rhapis robusta

[Pal Meir]

And here an update of these 2 Rhapis humilis, now together in a 28cm (≈4gal) container:

Rhapis humilis 2015-07-26.jpg

Pal Meir, I'm pretty confident that the palm in your last photo is Rhapis robusta

Alex, I dont think that my palms are Rhapis robusta. I had also a couple of R. robusta grown up from seed in 2003. These palms were much more slender and the number of leaf segments and their shape also totally different from these two specimens.

These two (supposed) R. humilis have much thicker stems: The primary stem (the first stem grown from the seed) of the taller palm is 17 mm thick, of the more suckering one 14 mm. (Later suckers will have thicker stems than the primary stem. The stems of my R. robusta were less than 8 mm in thickness.)

Also the shape of the blade is typical for R. humilis and not for R. robusta (according to Hastings 2003, Jones 1994, and other sources):

Photos of Rhapis palms in the internet are often not reliable, e.g. the photo of "R. micrantha" in Wikipedia.

[sarasota alex]

I agree with that thick of a stem it can't be R. robusta. It's kinda hard to see from the photo. I use Henderson's Palms of Southern Asia (2009) for Rhapis identifications. And without knowing the thickness it more or less matched the description and the collection location of R. robusta and looked like an R. robusta I've been shown once.

On another note Henderson in this 2009 book is stating that there are no known R. humilis fruit.

[Pal Meir]

I hope that the 2 supposed R. humilis will bloom next year. The literature on Rhapis palms is mostly very confusing. The photos in the internet and the marking of the species in the botanical gardens too.

As for Henderson, he wrote also (1995, p.150) that Lytocaryum insigne (= Syagrus insignis) has to belong to the species L. weddellianum (S. weddelliana). This was corrected only 15 years later by Noblick & Lorenzi (2010). If Henderson had asked any palm grower he would get presented photos like the following one showing 1 year old seedlings of S. insignis (left) and S. weddelliana (right):

[Pal Meir]

On 28.7.2015, 06:46:23, sarasota alex said:

I agree with that thick of a stem it can't be R. robusta. It's kinda hard to see from the photo. I use Henderson's Palms of Southern Asia (2009) for Rhapis identifications. And without knowing the thickness it more or less matched the description and the collection location of R. robusta and looked like an R. robusta I've been shown once.

On another note Henderson in this 2009 book is stating that there are no known R. humilis fruit.

I have found another article on Rhapis robusta on a Chinese website [smbk.forestry.gov.cn]. According to that article the stem can reach a diameter to ca. 2 cm, so that I am not sure if my Rhapis sp. 2004 is Rh. humilis or –as you suggested– Rh. robusta. I had also other Rh. robusta (germinated in 2003) which looked totally different, like the upper photo at RPS (http://www.rarepalmseeds.com/pix/RhaRob.shtml). My “supposed” Rh. “humilis” sp. 2004 looks like the lower photo …

Rhapis robusta [cūzōngzhú]
(1) 3-6 [5-7] leaflets
(2) blades not split to the base
(3) pointed apices of leaflets
(4) petiole 1.2 mm wide
(5) ligules persistent
(6) stem with sheaths to 1.2 [2] cm diameter [2-2.5 m tall]
(7) stem without sheaths to 0.6 cm diameter

[Pal Meir]

An update of my Rhapis sp. *2004 (since 2016-01-15 again indoors), showing the newest leaf with 11 leaflets:

[gyuseppe]

I have done from seed in 2008, Rhapis robusta and Rhapis multifida, Rhapis robusta  is much faster growth (at least here)
PAL you know something about speed growth Rhapis?

[Pal Meir]

50 minutes ago, gyuseppe said:

I have done from seed in 2008, Rhapis robusta and Rhapis multifida, Rhapis robusta  is much faster growth (at least here)
PAL you know something about speed growth Rhapis?

It is hard to say something reliable about the growth rate of Rhapis when grown up from seed. I have some data of five Rhapis spp. which were purchased from RPS in 2002 and 2004: The fastest was Rh. multifida (*2002), than Rh. robusta (*2003), Rh. ?humilis? (the sp. on the photo above; *2004), Rh. micrantha (*2004), and the slowest Rh. gracilis (*2004). All were grown as potted plants indoors in a normal living room.