Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
olivier971

A really unknown Dypsis in Andasibe ...

Recommended Posts

olivier971

As i said in a previous post, Jean-Pierre and i found a very special species of Dypsis during our last trip in Andasibe – Madagascar. First, we saw an adult in Maromizaha reserve, not very beautiful, perhaps it was ill. But we were immediately surprised by the specific position of the leaflets all around the rachis, and by its very long petiole. Crownshaft and new leaf were totally white.

After some discussion with different people inside the reserve, a young guy accepted to bring us to go and see another one. After a quite long trecking inside forest a part of paths, we finally discovered a young one, very colorful and with exactly the same leaves and specific position of leaflets.

According to our new young guide, this palm is very rare because usually eaten by local population. It’s the same with Dypsis pilulifera.

At the end of our trip, we saw another young specimen in Mitsinjo reserve, with very different colours, this time with a new petiole white, and with a lot of scales, but with exactly the same position of leaflets.

So the problem is that, accordind to us, the only byg Dypsis known in this area is Dypsis pilulifera, and those specimens are very different with D pilulifera because of their leaflets positions. Those specimens seem to be closed to D oropedionis, D tokoravina or D bejofo, but those species are not known in this area. So we don’t know at all what this could be ...

So I would be very interested by your ideas ….

Here are the photos :

- In Maromizaha reserve :

The first adult one :

15849343686_4fa6053eeb_c.jpg

15875162945_51e3281c5f_c.jpg

15873164521_e60a8549f7_c.jpg

15252903604_f15aeb8cd0_c.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
olivier971

The second one, a young specimen :

15874506442_b91bcc1010_c.jpg

15255497803_c3dea61aab_c.jpg

15689137739_01240af89b_c.jpg

15849338626_70c99f9a41_c.jpg

15874505812_c4989bfcae_c.jpg

15874505722_281747a6e1_c.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
olivier971

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
olivier971

In Mitsinjo reserve :

The third one, another young specimen, but with very different colours

15252930464_8d410c8966_c.jpg

15255528583_0b742fa232_c.jpg

15255528213_cb8728a687_c.jpg

15875188225_081574ab7f_c.jpg

15873189841_8666a35791_c.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LJG

Wow Olivier, I think you just found a rare and seldom seen Dypsis that some growers here in SoCal have that we had no idea where it came from or what it was. It came to SoCal via Alfred as "Ovobontsira" and Mardy Darian and Ron Lawyer are the only people I know that grew it. Ron was over here last month and in talking to him our best guess was maybe a locality of Dypsis oropedionis as the two have some similarities (but are also difference in appearance). One of the unique characteristics of this plant is the smooth, dark green petioles it has. It is the only larger Dypsis that I have seen with smooth, green petioles.

Will the guide you recommended remember where this Palm is? I will be there in October. I would love to see it in habitat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LJG

Sorry, forgot the photos. What do you think? Same plant? My two had the shade protection removed this spring and suffered a little but really seem to be able ton handle sun at a young age as the newest leaves don't get burned.

post-649-0-85568100-1417534090_thumb.jpg

post-649-0-80893200-1417534144_thumb.jpg

post-649-0-31958500-1417534161_thumb.jpg

post-649-0-52419600-1417534183_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Geoff

All photos of Dypsis ovobontsira I have seen show a non-plumose leaf… Here are a few shots of Bill Austin's plant

post-426-0-65956400-1417538727_thumb.jpgpost-426-0-59848900-1417538743_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
richnorm

Why would you doubt that your pictured palm is oropedionis Len? Agree Olivier's have similarities to that species which has been shown to be very variable but really a question for a botanist up close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gtlevine

(

Edited by Gtlevine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
comic097

Great lookers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kennybenjamin

Great looking palms alright!! Hopefully this one of mine is the same? I notice a couple of pics above with a bit a colour to the new leaf... Mine also displays this colour. I know of 1 other much larger specimen in the ground here in Brisbane that also shows a similar leaf structure but I have not noticed if it's new leaf has colour or not?

Daryl might have a pic of the larger inground specimen or else I can get a few in another day or 2

post-6412-0-92762600-1417556228_thumb.jp

post-6412-0-23885200-1417556408_thumb.jp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LJG

Why would you doubt that your pictured palm is oropedionis Len? Agree Olivier's have similarities to that species which has been shown to be very variable but really a question for a botanist up close.

As I stated I think the plant might be some type of Oropedionis (just a hunch), but there is indeed doubt for a few reasons:

1) Oropedionis doesn't come from any where near where Ovobontsira comes from. So unless Alfred threw some rudimentary name on the seed, one would expect the seed to have come from the northeast.

2) POM describes Oropedionis as having a petiole "densely scaly". This palm is smooth green. No indument/scaling anywhere. All the plants from that seed source are like this.

3) It was faster and easier to grow then what I have seen going around as Oropedionis (that I also have in my garden).

4) I have not seen the variability you have in Oropedionis. They all looked the same from Hawaii to Florida from what I saw. Once they get bigger they start developing the scaling on the petiole POM talks about (seen in pic below) and also the new spear is reddish-orange at the base but as you can see in the unknown plant, it is smooth green-yellow.

Like you said, without a botanist and flowering plant I doubt we will ever know. From reading Oliviers post it seems we won't be seeing this palm for some time as they cut down most the adults it looks like.

One other interesting thing is that Drainsfeld said Oropedionis is closest allied to Dypsis pilulifera. So maybe this is just some form of Pilulifera?

post-649-0-70420600-1417564616_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kennybenjamin

In Mitsinjo reserve :

The third one, another young specimen, but with very different colours

15252930464_8d410c8966_c.jpg

15255528583_0b742fa232_c.jpg

15255528213_cb8728a687_c.jpg

15875188225_081574ab7f_c.jpg

15873189841_8666a35791_c.jpg

Excuse my ignorance but is there anyway that this specimen could be similar to manangerensis?? It appears to have a similar leaf structure with colour to the new leaf and pattern on the petiole?? It certainly looks very different to the pics in posts 2 and 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Josh-O

Kenny, My D. manangerensis is much smaller than the picture of course but the leaf structure and leaflets look identical. Mine just flushed a new leaf with the exact some color. I'll post pictures when it stops raining. My guess is the top few pictures looks like Dypsis oropedionis. I also have a small one and it looks very similar.

you know how it goes when we think we have figured it out. Chances are were probably wrong. :(

Great pictures Oliver!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
humangenomaproject

If Len is going to Madagascar in October then I may buy a ticket to tag along (on my tricycle). Cool thread guys!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BS Man about Palms

I am lucky to have one recovering at Lens and one thing I noticed about these palms from seedling stage versus oreopedonis is the oreo. start with leaves in a flat plane and then eventually go plumose. The ones Len and Ron and I have showed plumose from little tiny leaves..

Great finds again Oliver! Thanks for sharing... after going to Nong Nooch, I can't help but wonder if they are a new species or hybrids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
richnorm

Why would you doubt that your pictured palm is oropedionis Len? Agree Olivier's have similarities to that species which has been shown to be very variable but really a question for a botanist up close.

As I stated I think the plant might be some type of Oropedionis (just a hunch), but there is indeed doubt for a few reasons:

1) Oropedionis doesn't come from any where near where Ovobontsira comes from. So unless Alfred threw some rudimentary name on the seed, one would expect the seed to have come from the northeast.

2) POM describes Oropedionis as having a petiole "densely scaly". This palm is smooth green. No indument/scaling anywhere. All the plants from that seed source are like this.

3) It was faster and easier to grow then what I have seen going around as Oropedionis (that I also have in my garden).

4) I have not seen the variability you have in Oropedionis. They all looked the same from Hawaii to Florida from what I saw. Once they get bigger they start developing the scaling on the petiole POM talks about (seen in pic below) and also the new spear is reddish-orange at the base but as you can see in the unknown plant, it is smooth green-yellow.

Like you said, without a botanist and flowering plant I doubt we will ever know. From reading Oliviers post it seems we won't be seeing this palm for some time as they cut down most the adults it looks like.

One other interesting thing is that Drainsfeld said Oropedionis is closest allied to Dypsis pilulifera. So maybe this is just some form of Pilulifera?

Thanks Len, I ask because what I am growing as oropedionis looks very much like your plant albeit more colourful. They came in under another name years ago. Have been assuming they were oropedionis but maybe they are not! Exceedingly slow until planted but moving along nicely now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hilo Jason

The pictures posted make me think of a couple palms that Greg Haman has in his garden and also Dennis in point loma has something that sure looks like what's above. No idea what it actually is though. I'm out of the country so I can't post pics of those that I have but I'm sure someone else can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
olivier971

thanks a lot for all your comments and proposals .. :)

of course i thought first those palms could be Dypsis oropedionis, but, as some of you said before, it seems that there are some differences.

Also, D oropedionis is not known at all in this area and in this type of habitat: http://maps.iucnredlist.org/map.html?id=38552

And also, i think D oropedionis is not known to be edible.

I don't think hose palms are D pilulifera because we saw both nearby, ans as you notice, the disposal of leaflets are very different.

So that's why i don't know what this could be, perahps the same some of you have in culture as you show us with photos, but not sure at all ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BS Man about Palms

I also meant to add that the first one made me think of Dypsis sp. white.... now known as Dypsis luecomalla I think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Geoff

leaves still wrong for D leucomalla

post-426-0-94040800-1417628652_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BS Man about Palms

Oops, I saw the flat leaves and realize now that was a palm behind it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dypsisdean

leaves still wrong for D leucomalla

attachicon.gifDypsis leucomala now.jpg

Looks like a Saint Lucei.

I don't think Geoff will mind if I correct him. Yes, that was a St. Lucei. And to be triple sure I asked Jeff M. who sent me a pic of the real D. luecomalla. Interestingly enough, I do see some similarities of the two in the fronds, that I didn't notice before. But the crownshaftal region is much different.

post-11-0-48289900-1417649652_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
richnorm

Oops, I saw the flat leaves and realize now that was a palm behind it.

So presumably given what Olivier said it's a pilulifera with regular leaves in habitat!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pedro 65

Great habitat pics as usual Oliver :greenthumb:

Glad to see we have a Dypsis sp in the garden here that looks just like your post 2 and ours is stretched from lots of shade as well.

re Post 1 , I thought the same as BS as well, a very stretched Leucomala ?

Pete :)

post-5709-0-51415800-1417651376_thumb.jp

post-5709-0-38048900-1417651419_thumb.jp

post-5709-0-45231200-1417651472_thumb.jp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
olivier971

Will the guide you recommended remember where this Palm is? I will be there in October. I would love to see it in habitat.

Yes, Len, the guide i recommended to you knows very well how to go in those reserves and can find and book for you local guides to go and see all those palms in forest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • Anne-Tahina Metz
      By Anne-Tahina Metz
      Tahina spectabilis
       
      Hi all !  
      I was very surprised when Kim reached me to let me know about this fundraiser ! I am so glad and happy about this initiative ! It brought me back to so many memories from the discovery.
      It was such an exciting thing to be part of ! Of course I was just a kid and didn’t measure the importance of it but now I realise how exceptional it is to have a tree named after me.
      I remember the whole thing from the picnic, to my Dad coming home one day telling us that Bruno had posted it on PalmTalk and everyone was going ballistic over it !
      I remember all the times we went to the site to see the inflorescence and how it evolved. We went to pick up the seeds and, in our garage, counted them and packed them to be shipped.
      My dad really wanted me to be as involved as I could in this discovery and I will never thank him enough for that.
      I remember Dr Dransfield’s visit, I remember seeing the excitement in his eyes when he first say the palm tree, it was like Christmas morning for him.
      If you have any question, please feel free to ask them, I will do my best to answer them  
       
      I thank all the PalmTalk community for it’s generosity and for not forgetting about the Tahina. You guys are amazing !! 
       
      lots of love 
       
      Tahina Metz
       
      see attachent a picture of me climbing a Tahina back in 2008

    • Cindy Adair
      By Cindy Adair
      On PT I see all the stunning photos and descriptions of past and future travel with the International Palm Society. 
      Here’s the group of us on the unforgettable Sarawak, Borneo pre tour in 2016.

      I recall times I almost did not sign up due to time, family and work constraints and costs involved.
      However every time it is only the trips I missed that I regret.
      And the friendships I have made across the world are at least as important as the sights and experiences.
      I took my first IPS trip using hoarded airline points through a country I had to find on a map (Qatar) to a place of my dreams (Thailand) in 2012, based primarily on comments by Palm Talk users I had never met.
      I am asking all of you now who have traveled anywhere on an IPS sponsored trip to post why you loved your trip(s). 
      Photos always welcome, but not required. 
    • SW_FL_Palms
      By SW_FL_Palms
      IPS has posted it's pre & post tours.   Unfortunately, the do not go to areas where you can see the Spiny Forest, Succulents,  Baobabs.  Of course, it is the palm society so they are focused on palms.
      Is there anyone out there that would like to join us on Madagascar tour that would take us to see the iconic plants that I listed above ?   A tour company will customize. and provide a quote    So let me know if you are interested, and preference for either before or after the biennial in Reunion.   
       
    • Tracy
      By Tracy
      In that many of us palm lovers have extensive collections of Madagascar native palms, it seemed appropriate to add this orchid to the garden in that it too is native to Madagascar.  It is the first of this genus that I am growing let alone this species.  Will be interesting to see how it performs.  The recommended light from the grower was "bright", but I see information that this species grows in full light at high elevations ( up to 1500-2,000 meters) in habitat.  Anyone else have experience with this species or the genus in general?  If you have photos, please share, particularly of any flowers.

    • PalmTreeDude
      By PalmTreeDude
      Why do some Madagascar palms, for example  Bismarkia and Beccariophoenix alfredii, have some cold hardiness to them? They are not cold hardy in cooler zones like 8a/8b but they are cold hardy from where they come from. Most of Madagascar is north of the Tropic of Capricorn. Are they just like that? You would think that they would not be cold hardy at all. 
×
×
  • Create New...