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Cluster

Cocos nucifera on Madeira Island

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Cluster

Thank you a lot Pargomad, you will find us all the coconuts of Madeira be it in movies or pictures:). The coconut is located around 1:20, road waterfall car washing around 3:15 and Ponta do Sol village around 5:35. The video shows some of the southwest coast and all the banana madness, you can also spot some palms.

Edited by Cluster

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Pargomad

I don't understand why they don't plant more tropical trees and palms on Madeira (and Porto Santo), both could be as exotic as the Canary islands.

It is right that they are already lots of palms on the island, mostly phoenix, washingtonia, archontophoenix, howea, livistona, dypsis, roystoneas... Etc, but I know they could do better. And I'm afraid that they are taking bit by bit those cocos on the harbour off. Before 2009 they were 12, now there are only 7 exemplars and replaced them by washingtonias or phoenix...

If they keep on doing this, maybe we will never see a cocos on Madeira again. (I bet they will be replaced by poplars and planetrees -.-). It must be something related to the culture. The spaniards have always been more evolved than us (talking about plants and trees) even on the continent you can see it. When you have a large london planetrees planted street in Lisbon, in Barcelona you have big avenues with phoenix dactyliferas and washingtonias. On the Canary Islands you see lots of roystoneas, cocos and flamboyant trees on the streets meanwhile on Madeira you have poplars or olive trees... The spaniards know how to get their cities and islands exotic, tropical and beautiful, and the result of this is the tourism. If you search for : canary islands on Google image you will see pictures of the dramatic and beautiful landscapes but also of the beaches with coconut trees just like paradise, BUT when you do the same with Madeira you have pictures from winter (I don't know why) with nothing tropical or exotic which could be attractive for the european people. If I would have to choose one destination for my summer between both with the pictures and tourism promotion, I would go to the Canary Islands where you can have what Madeira has but in more tropical and more "paradise island".

Edited by Pargomad

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Cluster

It is a shame yes. I do not understand why they put other palms all the time and mess with the few coconuts that never had any problem unlike the phoenix that keep being killed by the weevil. I suspect they have no clue at all how to treat coconuts, look at the Jamaican Tall that I photographed... it has at least 3 leaves taken away(no wonder we do not hear much about fruiting). I am glad you found that coconut in Madalena do mar as it shows some potential being left alone:D. I notice in our meteo forums and other Portuguese forums that some people have taken notice of the coconuts and desire them as well as other more tropical plants/trees, but we are a minority. I know people that do not even like palms in general though they do like the coconut/beach thing:). I am eager to see fresh coconut pictures from the island but even that is difficult (I will only go there on Christmas)...With some luck in one week or two weeks a friend will take a picture of the dwarf we will see.

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Cluster

I just found by accident a photo video from a person that seems to like the trees/palms from Funchal and I suspect this will be the closest for me to see the coconuts there for the near future. Video shows overall nice palm trees till it stops at the port, at 8 minutes you can see the coconuts in the port a bit far (with few leaves but looking healthy regardless) and at 4:10 near the white house isn't that a Christmas palm?

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Pargomad

I'm glad to see that since 2009 they have planted more palm trees like the roystoneas (1min46) and also in the new harbour. On the video we can see lots of Phoenix canariensis, dactylifera, roebellini, washingtonia robusta and filifera, syagrus romanzoffiana, archontophoenux alexandrae, cunninghamiana, howeas fosteriana, dypsis lutescens, livistona chinensis, roystonea regia, butia capitata, chambeyronia macrocarpa and cocos nucifera at the end.

No I didn't see any Christmas palm but I know where we can see them in Funchal.

The bad thing is the Red planetrees we see on the estrada monumental and also behind the cocos on the marina. They give a north european look, we can even see olive trees but I think we can accept them since they dont turn red or they don't lose their leaves.

They even planted 2 platanus on the new harbour, we need a revolution.

Edited by Pargomad

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Cluster

I have good news and bad news, the bad news is they removed some of the coconuts here due to a new road...: www.google.ch/maps/@32.702048,-17.1349217,3a,43y,312.03h,84.68t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sst7VdXI6T7za41O_lQ5WLw!2e0?hl=fr

The good news is that the one that stayed is looking good:) :

near the red car at 0:24.

Edited by Cluster

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cheshirepalms

Here it is :

Breathtaking video, I'm so glad I took the trouble to watch this!!! Its a place I've always wanted to go!

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Cluster

If you ever need advise in case you go there give a call! Also the area where the car is driving at the beginning, where the coconut is and where I showed the waterspout , is called Madalena do Mar, you can access the old road (near the sea) through Ponta do Sol tunnel as you can see in the movie(though the movie is showing the way backwards). But beware cause there is another one uphill which takes away the view and also leads to Madalena.

If you do happen to visit Madeira be sure to share with us palm pictures and mostly coconuts:).

Edited by Cluster

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cheshirepalms

If you ever need advise in case you go there give a call! Also the area where the car is driving at the beginning, where the coconut is and where I showed the waterspout , is called Madalena do Mar, you can access the old road (near the sea) through Ponta do Sol tunnel as you can see in the movie(though the movie is showing the way backwards). But beware cause there is another one uphill which takes away the view and also leads to Madalena.

If you do happen to visit Madeira be sure to share with us palm pictures and mostly coconuts:).

Its going to be holiday when the kids have grown up for just me and my girlfriend, or maybe we can get someone to watch the kids in 2016. We already have a holiday planned for next April. I will certainly rent a car and be asking you questions for sure!

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Cluster

There is no rush and with the new plaza and other infrastructures being rebuilt in Funchal you will see new grown up palms and exotic trees. It is just too bad they did not include (as far as I know) coconuts in the new places.

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Cluster

I have just found our old friend in a video from 26th October it is looking awesome (better than in my picture 2 months ago) if you ask me, as long they do not trim it:) go to 20:40:

This Sunday a friend of mine will come to mainland and bring me some pictures he took one week ago form the dwarf. I just hope he understood what I asked for:), I will share it as soon as possible.

ps:the talls are all trimmed though:(

Edited by Cluster

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Pargomad

I've found another video from yesterday of the new plaza where you can see (min 2:43) the cocos from the marina. They seem to be quite "happy" and green, enjoy it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc4wA96jqtc

You can also see the new trees they planted there, such as the delonix regias and Roystonea palms. I look forward to seeing them bigger !

Edited by Pargomad

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Cluster

Thank you Pargomad. As promised today I bring you some updated pictures of the dwarf and some talls thanks to a friend that came from Madeira. The pictures are 10 days old, he only took macros from the inflorescence(next time will show more). I showed him the video I posted 2 posts below and he thinks the dwarf is not looking as good possibly due to trimming? I will present both pictures the ones I took in September and the recent for comparassion:

September dwarf:

2i21z75.jpg

current situation:

35bt9q1.jpg

vo8xnr.jpg

What do you guys think? I think it looks promising and it proves they can fruit on the island, though I suspect the way they trim them does not help them.

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Pargomad

I think you should plant one in your garden in Funchal ahah. I'm quite impressed, those two green cocos. I wish I could pick them and taste them, maybe if they have a good taste, it could be a good argument for the Madeirans to plant them on the island and maybe sell them as they do with the bananas and other tropical fruits.

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Cluster

If you notice the first picture they were 3 and now they are still 3 not 2, one of them is hidden behind the "brown leftover"(for lack of better terms) and seems to be the biggest so far:)

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Explorer

We in Europe get the most northerly growing coconut palms!

Excellent!

Alexander

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Pargomad

But are those coconuts mature ? They're green ahhaha

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Explorer

But are those coconuts mature ? They're green ahhaha

Well its just about the joke of the most northerly growing coconut palm. Well maybe there are variaties wich could fruit on Madeira!

Alexander

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Cluster

Isn't it fruiting? That was the point and question of my last post:). I can notice the difference between September and now, in September they were just female flowers, now you can notice development occurring and that looks to me an immature coconut:). I will try to keep us up to date on the dwarf one as the time passes!

As we discussed before, Alexander, most people in Madeira do not realize they can have coconuts or know of their existence! They are very few and most of them are in public places that trim them too much:\ in those conditions we do not know if it is due to the weather or mistreat. This dwarf one is being mostly left out (even though you can notice some human trimming) and as you know they are also self sufficient when it comes to fruiting. I believe it will continue to fruit if they leave it alone:). In any case Alexander Funchal is far from being the hottest place on the island so even if it was not enough there, there is still hope.

Look at this picture of a tall one at the same place

wk5lyt.jpg

This is probably a picture of the tall one (post 113) but more recent, you can notice at least 3 fronds that were cut:(

Edited by Cluster

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Pargomad

You should send these pictures to the municipality of Funchal ahaha maybe if they know that the coconut trees can fruit on the island, they will plant more and promote them.

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Cluster

Yes I should Pargo, I just hope they leave the coconuts alone, in December I will go to Madeira during the Christmas and I will try to take pictures of all the cocos around :). As for your suggestion regarding planting the coconut at 140 m(460 feet)in our garden. I think we might try it, the only problem is that I am only there 3 times per year (at least for now:) ), though I can try to instruct for people to take care of it:).

I just saw a video from 2009 and it sadness me what they did to the coconut(it is not there anymore for some reason) that is near the dwarf one(dwarf one being near the green garbage can), take a look at 1:04 and tell me the coconut to the right side wasn't awesome?

Edited by Cluster

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Cluster

Imagining that we do plant the coconut, we would like it to be outside. Should we plant it right away in the garden and what time of the year would it be best, maybe end of April? Last but not the least I wonder which type should we go for, I love all of them but perhaps a dwarf type would be more fitting to our space! That raises a new question how will I get them?! I could try to buy a coconut in the supermarket and that could work apparently, but I would probably get a tall type then:). Samoan look awesome but with all the leaves spread on the ground it might block garden passage:).

Edited by Cluster

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Josh-O

welcome to PT :)

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Cluster

Thank you very much Josh I hope I can contribute a bit more when I get to go to Madeira in about 4 weeks:).

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Explorer

For Funchal I would look for a coconut variaty from a ''colder area''. I have seen them in the east of Nepal, at the bordercrossing with India in the hot lowlands. And also you see them plenty grown for the coconuts in Assam. In that area where the Kaziranga NP is. I heard from a local that they grow 3 variaties there. Assam and Nepal are outside off the tropics. In winter you get sometimes colsnaps, and cooler temperatures, especially during the night. But most of the year its hot and humid there.

So maybe you should get coconuts from all those 3 variaties and try them out on Madeira.

To plant them out there would be apreciated also by tourist I guess.

Alexander

Edited by Explorer

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Cluster

Alexander thank you for your advice! The problem is getting those specimen on Madeira since we have no big tradition for coconuts (yet!). Since one of the most sensitive coconuts grows on Madeira with no signs of problems (the famous Green Malayan dwarf one I keep showing here:)) I believe any coconut will do alright! On the other hand the place where I want to plant it is around 140 meters(460 feet, see the garden picture I posted to see its proximity to the sea) so that is something to consider:).

I would like to have a small variety to be easier to handle it in the garden, the spicata or the Fiji/Samoan would be awesome(they seem to be smaller than the Malayan dwarf), however there are 2 problems:

First I am not sure I can get those varieties or the Indian ones(though I will inform myself next time I go to the island)

Second in the case of the Fiji one I am afraid they don't grow enough for the fronds to get pass the Garden fence as you can notice in the pictures! (might have to show you guys more pictures of the Garden later on).

For the moment the easier option seems to be a Malayan dwarf as they are small and probably easier to acquire and the fronds will not block the garden passage:).

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empireo22

here is a cocos in Bhutan.....probably gets pretty cold there. altitude is around 160 metres there.

does anyone know if there is a specific cultivar from the region there on the foothills of the Himalayans?

https://www.google.com/maps/@26.7989305,91.5048534,3a,47.1y,315.85h,90.81t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1syleY7lSlnHuwLRdsIwqzlA!2e0?hl=en

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empireo22

well after looking more at google maps it probably doesn't get that cold there. they have areca sp. around town. also these look like Malayan dwarfs in the first link.....maybe a tall cultivar in the second.

https://www.google.com/maps/@26.7997518,91.5053987,3a,75y,288.71h,88.14t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1suNomw8ZOb8r_8OTZPeQb5g!2e0?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@26.8006784,91.5061158,3a,75y,9.75h,104.77t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sUzoe9_WYwiSeuKXIPp1XgA!2e0?hl=en

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Cluster

Thank you Zach, I am glad you enjoyed the pictures, hopefully as time passes by more will be shown:).

Alex (empireo) thank you for your research and I agree the zone seems quiet hot even at that altitude. I have been looking at amateur weather stations in Funchal and the ones at 220 m had their record low of this year around 10+ C, that was the coldest day. Since our garden is located at 140 I expect the lowest recorded to be closer to 11+ Celsius with around 14 C as mean minimum in the coldest month.

Edited by Cluster

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Cluster

A small update saw a recent video with one of the Madalena do Mar coconuts, it seems to be a yellow one:) now that I look at it and it continues to show happiness (go to 1:27) :

Edited by Cluster

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Cluster

So late Saturday I travel to Madeira island for 2 weeks, even though I have many projects to do for the university I will gather sometime to see some coconuts and other plants/trees there:) . With that said if anyone has requests let me know I will try to address them and keep you updated on the island:)

Edited by Cluster

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Pargomad

Take some pictures for us ahaha then "bon voyage" and enjoy :)

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Cluster

Today I did not have much time and when I arrived the light was not optimal, but here are some photos of the cocos at the marina:

the tall ones first:

iyiirb.jpg

2yzmmtf.jpg

28858r5.jpg

the dwarf one:

28rhxyp.jpg

9vijcz.jpg

Overall I am a bit sad that they are over pruning all of them and I only see one more evolved coco? Not sure what happened, if man action or the palm gave up in any case it is missing so many fronds, no wonder:)

I will be sending more pictures with better light during the vacations! I also know now other locations of cocos if the opportunity arrives I will cover them too.

Edited by Cluster

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Cluster

This is a nice tree I found out in Funchal I believe the tittle said: Garcinia xanthochymus, related to the purple mangosteen :

144ebo.jpg

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Pargomad

What happened to the two coconuts ? Who ate them !? Ahha

Nice pictures :) How lucky you are ! I wish I was there. I would take loads of photos of every palms and trees ahaha. Enjoy your trip and keep sending more photos please :)

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Cluster

So today I had some minutes to take some pictures of other palms and trees, hopefully tomorrow I get to see other cocos

2nby5hj.jpg

and some archontophoenix not sure the next 2 pictures are alexandrae or cunninghamiana

j79njp.jpg

ff1qfq.jpg

Delonix regia everywhere

ri4yv9.jpg

kentia comes and joins them

2mecmk7.jpg

Edited by Cluster

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Cluster

More Delonix

28a7ui9.jpg

Bismarckia nobilis

eje99i.jpg

A Queen

5vc569.jpg

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Pargomad

Wow nice pictures ! On your pictures we can see a lot of archontophoenix cunninghamiana (On the third picture it's a chambeyronia macrocarpa). The blue palm is a brahea armata and not a bismarckia nobilis. For the trees I love those delonix regias, and I can see a lot of casuarinas, a melia azedarach loosing its leaves, an agathis brownii and I can notice a schefflera actinophylla. I wonder if you saw some roystoneas yesterday. I'm looking forward to seeing more photos ! :)

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