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Cocos nucifera on Madeira Island

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Alicante

Proeza I am not sure about them being there as sprouts, I have a feeling some were, for example this one post #375 has been there for at least one or two years. If these coconuts fail I think is more due to them being too used to extreme artificial greenhouses, if they fail in Canaries (without adaptation) of course they will have problems here as well. If they need adaptation I might try to, but since we are not there for 2 or 3 months sometimes this will be hard.

Having said that in my opinion Madeira stands a better chance at them, then Palm Springs for these reasons:

It is true max temperature in coldest month is near 20 and the mins can get to 12 some days of the year (even lower in extreme situations like 10-9 (would be warmer in the southwest coast near the sea)), but overall the mean temperature is higher and their feet will be warmer on the island than Palm Springs during the coldest month.

It is true the max temperatures can get to 17 in a bad day maybe even 16 in a "nightmare day", but palm springs can get near 12 max and close to freezing mins (if not under 0 c in extreme weather) under a heavy cold spell. Madeira gets cold spells but never nearly as extreme so it is more stable.

The third reason is that Madeira has plenty of coconuts in public places growing with drought and trimmed, with coconuts able to grow under shade in public places, you have proof just need to watch them:).

The fourth reason is that according to Daniel it is not easy to grow them (he has tried himself) and although there are better spots than his house the stations still show very cool days in certain days for all Palm Springs(even this year they had 30 f 31 f or so). While in Madeira they grow everywhere in the south coast from 0 to 180m altitude at least, including the northern coast (still need to confirm it) and Porto Santo.

The last reason I can think of, is we have a coconut growing at 180 m (far from perfect as you can imagine) for 20 years, without any protection/protected spot or special care.

On average I would say they will like Palm Springs better, but when it comes to extremes Madeira is more similar to the Canaries, immune to extreme cold, not even Florida keys . So if you have a weak coconut during those extremes it will die there without protection most likely.

Having said that, I wish my Garden was a bit lower than 140 m and I could be there to protect them while they grow, but that might be very hard to accomplish. Still after what I have seen on the island I can assure you they would grow just fine if they were "normal coconuts" growing under normal conditions. The best way to assure that is to order your coconuts like Daniel did, they will have time to adapt to your climate as seedlings, opposed to the greenhouses ones that have never seen light or temperatures below 28c. Of course better than living at lower altitudes would be to live at lower altitudes in the southwest coast and add one celcius or so to Funchal temperatures:)

If the Newport coconut was able to grow as a seedling it should not be a challenge at all in Madeira:

P7030731.JPG

Do you think an Euterpe precatoria could grow on the island, I seem to recall someone with worse climate growing one, have no clue? That might be a good looking palm to keep company to the coconuts:)

Yes buddy but the difference between Newport and Madeira is that Newport has an average of 20ºC during the coldest month and practically all days they have 20-21ºC. Even better, if you look at their climate they have the phenomenon "Indian Summer" which is totally impossible in Madeira; and consists in having +25ºC days during winter. In fact, you can look that 2015 January was almost hotter than May 2015 in LA :laugh2: :laugh2: January temperatures / May temperatures. According to the climate chart, half of January in Madeira is raining. In Newport January is dry, and they have a lot more sunshine hours than Madeira during December and January. Also, as you know (and I know because all the days from the last winter I was checking Madeira's temperature) in Madeira a looot of winter days the temperatures are 18-19ºC and the lows 13ºC; this year even was a day with 17-12 but only 1 day, 17-12 or 17-13; but i know that the maximum was 17. Anyways the average minimum is +13ºC WHICH IS VERY GOOD but it does not get all the sun it needs to grow 100% ok, and also the temperature is a bit fresh.

OBVIOUSLY IS A VERY GOOD CLIMATE, YES. No one is saying that Madeira's climate is bad. Obviously is a very mild climate and it's placeful, yes. BUT, the island climate does not require the proper conditions for a coconut. I've said proper and 100%, this does not mean that you can grow it. Obviously you can, and they will grow. Depending on how you treat/protect it, it can grow like the street ones from Madeira (the ones fromo the photos you've post) which is slow, or like ones from the hotels or private houses which appear to be quite good!

It grows, yes, it makes big yes, it's green, yes. OK, all good. But what i'm trying to say is that Madeira's climate is not a place where a Cocos Nucifera can grow 100% as it will do on Florida or another places. Do you understood me now what I was trying to say? Obviously is a good climate and they will grow, yes. But that freshy winters with a lot of rain, would make them grow quite slower than they would do in Bermudas or Gran Canaria, for example. Obviously in Florida or other pure Tropical places they will grow even faster.

And yes buddy, obviously chances of a Coconut in Madeira are far right than in the entire California. But was I referring to, is that in Palm Springs for example they get the sun and the maximum temperatures they like in winters.

But obviously a coconut would grow 100% and like more to have 30ºC during the day and 20ºC during the night all year haha! (in his natural entourage of course). Palm Springs not, but Durban is a very good example of what I was saying before. Durban has a lot of coconuts, not like California which has 1 o 2. Durban I think that even arrives to a hundred coconuts if not more; and their averages during the coldest months are 23/8 but yes, they get a wide +20ºC average daily temperature during the coldest month and also winters are quite dry and very sunny; that's why it grows a lot on Gran Canaria or the desertic islands in the Canaries. As I've shown you months before, even in the Canary Islands they not grow the same. It all depends on the island and the sun they take. In La Gomera, with only 1ºC less average during winters than Gran Canaria, they grow quite slower, while in Gran Canaria and the south of Tenerife actually you can look with Google Maps and all hotels and resorts have coconuts in which a lot are at least 10m tall.

That one at 180m altitude is there for 20 years. You answered to yourself haha! One time is big or it's at least a small plant, it will survive and grow. I only was referring that it would not grow very fast, but it will do, and the most important is that it will survive. But can you ask that owner if he planted his coconut from a sprout? And if he did that, he protected the sprout it's first winter? In overall, obviously they will grow on Madeira!

Regards mate and like I've said before go ahead and try it! It would grow that's for sure !!

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Cluster

According to the weak source I have in wikipedia they say Newport ( it was growing there not LA) Is 18 C during the coldest month,? But higher low temperatures (maybe closer to the sea?). The LA climate is in downtown (so a lot of heat island effect) but the station in Funchal is not. If you go downtown Funchal add one more Celsius at least for the highs. Regardless even in downtown LA the high temperatures are about the same during the winter. The downtown station of LA has average lows near the record low of Funchal non downtown station. The average mean temperature in the coldest month is 2 degrees warmer in the non downtown Funchal station than LA downtown and is 1 degree warmer on average (annually). Anyway like I said the coconut was not even form LA and was fine for 30 years?

I am not saying Funchal is the perfect place to grow coconuts!(it is far from it!), but they thrive there and is easier to grow tropical stuff than in California that is the only thing I am arguing:), we grow Christmas palms there, hardier than coconuts as far as I know Proeza. I think it is great that some people manage to grow coconuts in CA and I encourage them to continue to do so, I just do not agree Madeira is a worse place, they are different but for tropicals Madeira is better. US has zones like Florida and Hawaii much better suited than Madeira for tropicals, but those zones are not CA. Madeira is a zone 12, besides like you have seen coconuts look better here during the winter, even in February (our coldest month) our average rainfall is less than the optimal for coconuts (we had to water our grass this year... a lot), is not like Madeira south coast is that rainy:). Rains more in Lisbon than in the south coast of Madeira, I wish it rained even more in Madeira to be honest.

Just some data with, the non downtown station (this is what I like to compare, otherwise it is hard to compare, but I can tell you some wunderground downtown station almost 2 degrees higher than the cold weather station of the official observatory), the Newport climate and then one data from LA taken from weatherbase:

9ixrm1.jpg

Edited by Cluster

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Cluster

So to sum up the coastal California, LA, Newport and San Diego, non downtown stations (downtown stations are not considered valid to compare different climates, they are used to understand heat island effects or micro-climates, tough) are all around 18 degrees during the winter. Funchal is around 19,2-19,7 (depending on which normals you refer). Downtown stations (which is not where I will grow the coco) in Funchal would be around 21 C, similar values to the southwest coast station of the island (this last being a "valid" non downtown station).

You are right that this year was cooler in Madeira, (people did complain there;), though I was still getting 20-21 in Madalena do Mar (unfortunately no station there only the car thermomether ), on the other hand I know from our friends in the US this was a particular warm winter for CA. In any case the coconuts did not get a scratch, besides being dry that is. I show you some data in a thesis (taken from our official meteo stations) from 2002-2005 where you can see more normal winters in case you are curious about the non downtown stations for Funchal and Southwest coast station (Lugar de Baixo as you know:P):

2q39cvt.jpg

Just discard the mean temperatures as they are not using the same standard formula, (Min + max)/2 ^^

Anyway enough of climate, will you be able to try out the coconut as well? I mean did you find any nursery with a coconut there? If you need help I could try to find you some around.

Edited by Cluster

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Alicante

So to sum up the coastal California, LA, Newport and San Diego, non downtown stations (downtown stations are not considered valid to compare different climates, they are used to understand heat island effects or micro-climates, tough) are all around 18 degrees during the winter. Funchal is around 19,2-19,7 (depending on which normals you refer). Downtown stations (which is not where I will grow the coco) in Funchal would be around 21 C, similar values to the southwest coast station of the island (this last being a "valid" non downtown station).

You are right that this year was cooler in Madeira, (people did complain there;), though I was still getting 20-21 in Madalena do Mar (unfortunately no station there only the car thermomether ), on the other hand I know from our friends in the US this was a particular warm winter for CA. In any case the coconuts did not get a scratch, besides being dry that is. I show you some data in a thesis (taken from our official meteo stations) from 2002-2005 where you can see more normal winters in case you are curious about the non downtown stations for Funchal and Southwest coast station (Lugar de Baixo as you know:P):

2q39cvt.jpg

Just discard the mean temperatures as they are not using the same standard formula, (Min + max)/2 ^^

Anyway enough of climate, will you be able to try out the coconut as well? I mean did you find any nursery with a coconut there? If you need help I could try to find you some around.

:bemused: lol mate that would be awesome. Do you know where? I've been searching for coconuts in my zone but... nothing :(

IKEA has none. Leroy Merlin none. Carrefour none. And plant nurseries... the far I can get is a Roystonea or a Howea. In specialized ones I can get real tropicals but none sells a coconut. :(

PS: And obviously for tropicals Madeira is far better than California haha! Only taking a fast look with Street View you can clearly see the HUGE difference. Madeira vegetation is very similar to Canary Islands. Roystoneas and Howeas are everywhere, while in California is quite hard to find Roystoneas. (lol american users don't go to my neck xD I am referring with Street View) with Street View in the warmest zones of California I can see 70% Syagrus and the rest are Archontophoenix, Washingtonias, etc. In some zones i've searched with Street View there is no difference with here in Spain (anyways the climate of the Valencian coast is 90% the same as in SoCal coast) but Madeira is another thing. I can't explain it. There are differents kinds of trees... jacarandas, etc. Howeas grow very good here (and i'm sure in California too) but they aren't extended as in Madeira or the Canary Islands.

Is like in the Canary Islands. I'm 100% surprised in what i've seen down there. Until 1980-1990 all the palms were only washingtonias and phoenix (as you know p.canariensis is a native haha!) but those palms were 10000% good for the Canarian climate because they need very low water, and most of Canaries have desertic climate. But, if you look now... the streets were replaced with roystoneas... and a loooooot of people have roystoneas and howeas in their gardens... and looking by the 2011 and 2014 in only 3 years they grow ENORMOUS like they will on Madeira too. And I don't mentione the coconuts (I promised a Canary Islands thread specially for coconuts as you know but I was occupied in making this... I will make it this summer :P I've seen scary enormous coconuts outta there but that's another story haha) Canary Islands has places with 22ºC annual average and even places in the 12b hardiness zone because the average of each year lowest temperature does not arrive even to 13ºC... (very very rare to see temps under 15ºC in some spots) but even there... they will not grow as will they do on Florida.

But yes, as you say. Even Florida can have very heavy cold waves while in Macaronesia that's impossible. Another thing impossible in Madeira is real hot, but unfortunately Canary Islands have this. This year on May it arrived to 43ºC in Fuerteventura Island... and even in Gran Canaria they arrived to 41-42ºC in MAY. You are lucky to not to have this extreme hot waves coming from the Sahara.

PSS: Those climate charts weren't necessary... I've said before that obviously that climate is better than in SoCal haha I was referring better to Durban.

Durban : https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durban#Climaas you can see the coldest month has 22.6/10.5 but it has 230 sunshine hours... while in the hottest season (summer) is the wet season and it rains a lot, like in Florida or Bermuda. That's why they grow like this. They need warm summers but also wet summers; they prefer dry winters with sunshine or at least that's my explanation of seeing those things in Durban :laugh2::

42.png

durban-chair-lift.jpg

Those are holding fruit:

palm-trees-durban-sea-front-south-africa

If you ignore all that amount of coconuts, Durban flora is practically like the flora you can see in Funchal:

Durban_TownHall.jpg

UKZN.jpg

Regards buddy!

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Cluster

43 C in May? That is insanely hot (for me anyway, maybe someone likes that!, people from Palm Springs?:D). I have experienced only 40 C, once in Lisbon and once in Porto and I could not stand it, I cant imagine 43 or more. In Funchal the record is only 38,5, I was there three years ago when we had the fires:( and it got to 36,x, it was unbearable as well as even with the Sahara the weather is still more humid than here in Lisbon in similar conditions:

joaoluis_20120718183812.jpg

Yes I am still waiting for the canaries thread, I wondered if you had forgotten it. I am looking forward to it this summer then. As for the cocos we could try to arrange something, though if i do find them on the island they are probably better than the ones here. Still as they are still young maybe the adaptation process will not be to severe.

PS:They do look very nice in Durban, but I am sure you will find and show us worthy competitors in your Canary Islands thread!

Edited by Cluster

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Mr. Coconut Palm

Daniel,

I think they are Green Malayans for a couple of reasons: 1st most of what the nursery industry grows for home lawns in the Western Hemisphere is Malayan Dwarfs and Maypans, so I would think it would be similar for ones likely grown in North Africa (which is probably where these were grown at, then shipped to Portugal)., and 2. the nuts are more round and smaller like Malayan nuts. Most tall nuts wouldn't even fit in such small pots. And also, they look like palm fronds I have seen growing in very shady conditions in which the fronds get much longer than normal and the trunks are longer and more narrow than normal as if they have been desperately growing up to what little light is available to them, which means they should be grown under shade cloth for a couple of months, then gradually moved into a more sunny area before putting them in the ground in full sun. I think it is always better to sprout coconuts in full sun like they do on the beach and like the sunny conditions the palms will eventually be planted in.

John

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Cluster

Hello John thank you for your input once again. They do look a bit smaller than tall coconut seeds, but then again is hard for me to judge as I have never seen them side by side:). If I have the chance I will try to at least ask them the origin of the cocos, they should have that information. I also agree with you, the best thing is to grow them under as much sun as they can get since they are small, but if I do take these with me I would have to adjust them most likely, just glad they look young enough to adapt. I wonder how old they are:)

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Danilopez89

Daniel,

I think they are Green Malayans for a couple of reasons: 1st most of what the nursery industry grows for home lawns in the Western Hemisphere is Malayan Dwarfs and Maypans, so I would think it would be similar for ones likely grown in North Africa (which is probably where these were grown at, then shipped to Portugal)., and 2. the nuts are more round and smaller like Malayan nuts. Most tall nuts wouldn't even fit in such small pots. And also, they look like palm fronds I have seen growing in very shady conditions in which the fronds get much longer than normal and the trunks are longer and more narrow than normal as if they have been desperately growing up to what little light is available to them, which means they should be grown under shade cloth for a couple of months, then gradually moved into a more sunny area before putting them in the ground in full sun. I think it is always better to sprout coconuts in full sun like they do on the beach and like the sunny conditions the palms will eventually be planted in.

John

Thanks for the explanation John. I have learned much already about coconuts just from your posts here on Palmtalk as well as with other members posts of course. If I'm gonna try and grow coconuts I need to know more about them, and there is no better place to get real info than on this forum.

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Sandy Loam

Hello Cluster. I just noticed something about your climate info on Los Angeles. You posted the LAX airport data and called it "downtown Los Angeles". LAX airport is not downtown. LAX is coastal, so it does not get very hot there. Downtown Los Angeles is about 28 or 29 km east of the coast.

In the dead of winter, the average high temperature for downtown Los Angeles is 20.1 Celcius (68.2 F)/average minimum is 9.3 Celcius (48.8 F). The average January high temperature in Funchal is 20.39 Celcius (almost the same as Los Angeles in January). The average January low in Funchal is, however, warmer at 14.33 Celcius.

It should be possible to grow coconuts in both places, but I think it is more difficult in Los Angeles because of the winter rain which can keep the roots cold and wet. You probably don't have this problem in Funchal in January.

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Cluster

I am sorry if I said that I meant exactly otherwise:), though I verified and I said non downtown station. The point being, is not good to use a downtown station when comparing two climates, it increases high and average temperatures usually for 1-2 degrees at least(LA having more than 1/3 of Portugal population... further contributes to this). I am sure LA is good enough to try out coconuts. The biggest difference is the extreme cold spells both high and low that CA can experience, which Madeira is immune. I am convinced lows are as important, even if just to keep the average soil temperature warmer, when you have warmer mean temperatures the soil remains warmer as well.

Edited by Cluster

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Alicante

43 C in May? That is insanely hot

PS:They do look very nice in Durban, but I am sure you will find and show us worthy competitors in your Canary Islands thread!

Check this mate: http://www.aemet.es/es/eltiempo/observacion/ultimosdatos?k=val&l=8293X&w=1&datos=det http://www.aemet.es/es/eltiempo/observacion/ultimosdatos?k=&l=5402&w=2&datos=img&f=

45.1ºC today in Játiva (30km from me) and 45.2ºC yesterday in Córdoba. This is DEMENTED :floor:

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Sandy Loam

I agree. I also think that coconuts are a strange tree to grow in California anyway. There are other palms that are better suited to that climate, including the native palm trees of southern California. Coconuts seem less out of place in Madeira, although they look most natural in a very humid, wet climate like southeast Asia, the Caribbean, Polynesia or southwestern India.

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Cluster

Hello everyone :) So I am back to the island, just got here 1 day ago and already took a picture of a new coconut, as I do not have much time today I won't post it right away.

There are also news on the Regency coconut, Regency palace has been closed, I hope they do not remove the coconut and the next people that take the hotel keep it there.

Another news not so great is that I have heard they might be doing a Riprap on Madalena do Mar beach, I hope this is not for real or if they do something it is not very impactful:

On one hand it would destroy the natural look of the beach:( which looks amazing and one of the few still intact! On the other hand what would they do to the beach cocos?

In any case I will be staying here for a while for another coverage!, maybe also cover some other palms/trees from time to time to mix it in:) If you would like something (especially the cocos!) let me know and I will try to address it.

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Cluster

Good afternoon, the coconut I found yesterday was the one shown on this thread before:

90144680.jpg

The pictures I took yesterday were during the night and my camera and lens is not that good so it needs some time to get all the light and it also did not focus that well (should have gone fully manual:P )! Regardless here is the current development of the coco!

dz6xsm.jpg

242cumu.jpg

2yxgnch.jpg

I think it looks quiet cool but I will have to go back there during the day:) It did grow quiet a while, Pargomad do you know when was the original picture taken?

Anyway time for going out, hope you enjoy!

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Danilopez89

Oh sweet coconut!

post-9726-0-62798700-1438444385_thumb.jp

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Cluster

Thank you Daniel, I also thought the same especially with the moonlight hehe.

Today we had the local rally ceremony and I took the chance to take some pictures to several palms and trees etc in the park around:

Heliconia rostrata

a9o8ys.jpg

Here you can see a small lake with some kentias and several other species in the background:

2cdc3fl.jpg

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana and others around

2db9b7l.jpg

Chambeyronia macrocarpa, delonix regia and others

2rz98oi.jpg

Big Plumeria and others

8xqya8.jpg

Edited by Cluster

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Cluster

Detailed picture of the Plumeria flower

8y86c6.jpg

One variety of Mangosteen, kentias, plumeria and others

5f4y94.jpg

During the evening (using flash as I did not have a tripod) I went to the Lido Zone and found out a nice Palm, which I can't ID, but I have seen it more than once on the forums and it looks nice, it is way bigger than it looks!

4uat5u.jpg

And sadly I found the coconut on google maps, https://www.google.pt/maps/@32.6365,-16.932331,3a,75y,190.66h,81.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-DkSblgQFT1CltdLWj6uwA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

not well treated:

f0ygjc.jpg

Trimmed as well, can it be saved?

Edited by Cluster

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Pargomad

Great pictures !

The blue palm is a bismarckia nobilis ! The cocos of the lido hotel seems quite happy, by contrast the last one is quite ugly and skinny, it seemed bigger and healthier on the street view pic taken more than 5 years ago. Keep up showing us your beautiful pictures !

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Danilopez89

Love the pics. This place looks very "tropical". Looks like a nice place to live too.

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Cluster

Thank you all is always nice to know people are interested and hopefully I can help somehow, as little as it counts, with the coconuts and other palms health.

Daniel, yes it does look very tropical, in fact the warmest place(s) of the southwest coast might qualify, in terms of mean temperature during the coldest month, as a tropical climate. The northern part of the island rains a bit more though, looking more lush naturally. Although it is colder there, I know of a person that sprouted in the northern coast a coconut from Brazil! with no issues as a seedling! I have learned this story today. Unfortunately the story ends up being sad as later on they wanted to transplant it to the southwest part (as a favor) but destroyed all its root system by doing so and of course it died:(. Anyway a lot of pictures will come during this summer in the many micro climates the island has:). And yes Daniel Madeira Island can have one of the best if not the best quality of life (in my little country that is) and now with low costs for the residents to flight to the mainland it will further improve. It has a lot of potential.

Tonight I want to begin by showing the pictures of the Bismarckia and the Coco at its side during the day.

I may have the chance to talk with people that might address the public palms during this week, it would be very helpful if someone with more experience would guess what the poor coconut needs:

In any case here are some weird palms before I show you the Bismarckia and the Coco:

2cr2elu.jpg

The Bismarckia near the Coco:

3446xz4.jpg

The Coconut:

vrv5nd.jpg

It does not look great again as a reminder check it before here https://www.google.pt/maps/@32.6365,-16.932331,3a,75y,190.66h,81.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-DkSblgQFT1CltdLWj6uwA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

and now look at this next one:

snhtdx.jpg

Look at that "spear" it is not even straight, the coconut just looks sick, lacking nutrition maybe too trimmed, it is a shame! Any help would be appreciated, it is not the cold as this zone did not see anything below 12 C during this year (extremely close to the sea) and barely rained.

Next I will show you one of my favorite trees on the island and Madalena do Mar coconuts in their current state.

Edited by Cluster

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Cluster

Before we head to Madalena do Mar located southwest coast for our cocos let me show you my favorite (so far) Delonix Regia!:

2myz2ug.jpg

this tree is quite big and will keep growing, always bringing more and more color

the kentia keeps it company:

2n8t2de.jpg

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Cluster

So we travel to Madalena do Mar, it was a cloudy day in Funchal as you could see from the Bismarckia and Coco pictures before. In Madalena as usual the weather is warmer even when we returned at 23 pm the lows were higher than in Funchal.

For this set of pictures I think it is important to show the before (when I was here in February, coldest month) and today's pictures so we can see the evolution:

Lets start with the roundabout coconuts from February, here is the bigger one back then:

axgxuh.jpg

And now:

2mm66hf.jpg

I think we can easily notice its growth from February till today or is it my imagination?!

Another:

1zg5k55.jpg

I thought they would leave this one alone but they trimmed it... once again oh well maybe after I have that talk:)

Next its sister during February, seemed a bit dry during February:

1z4jp5d.jpg

and how it looks today:

10cm2w5.jpg

It looks less dry but was completely trimmed, the left frond still looks like before. It does not seem to have grown that much, looks less fat, but maybe because of all the trimming, they really chopped many fronds from this one. I believe it is spending time forming a robust trunk before it starts growing faster (if I understood correctly some days ago on our forums concerning coconuts), trimming all its leaves is probably not helping it.

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Cluster

Another picture:

ab79z7.jpg

I wonder if the smaller coconuts handle 11-12 UV with no issues.. as that is happening a lot during this summer.

Next we have the other coconuts in Madalena on the beach, showing a picture from January of the one near the tree:

9vli0p.jpg

And today:

346ngas.jpg

I think we can see the trunk grew a bit! On the other hand as I have said before, it seems many coconuts do look better here during the winter, unlike Florida and other places! UV? Drought who knows, they are trimmed regardless of the current season...

And now to the one below the tree during February:

2lrfj7.jpg

It was fighting the tree for sun

And now:

2lx6xwn.jpg

still continues to fight for sun, seems to be winning, but suddenly a lot of small things are growing there

Edited by Cluster

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Cluster

Finally some extras of these two coconuts:

o94mkl.jpg

1yn3f8.jpg

So this is all for today folks. I will also look for nurseries or some place that has access to some coco seedlings, maybe I will find it, apparently a person from our meteo forums bought some here, he has not seen them for a while but perhaps I can find some:)

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Pargomad

I LOVE your pictures ahaha can't wait to go there ! I love the delonix regia ! My favorite tree. The coconut palms of Madalena do Mar are definitely the best exemplars on the island in my opinion, the problem is that they keep trimming them...

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Cluster

Thank you, more will come in the future:) I also talked with some local people to address the beach coconuts from Madalena :).

Do you know what the coconut in post #420 needs? it looks to be something nutritional, but also over trimming, especially since it looked better on google maps? When I do talk with people I will ask them to stop the trimming, but maybe some of these coconuts lack the right nutrients, being in bad soil?

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Cluster

Hello again, sorry I have been a bit busy showing the island to some friends during the last days! I took some pictures around 9 days ago and wanted to share some updates!

Will begin with the "Jardim Almirante Reis" comparison!

February the sick palm looked like this:

27yc1g1.jpg

This coconut was lacking some kind of nutrients...With my limited research it looks like boron deficiency?

And now it looks like this:

vphppl.jpg

Still sick, seems to have a fuller crown though.

The 2nd healthier coconut in February:

2h3ssa9.jpg

and now:

2nm1uhj.jpg

The crown is getting fuller and round, the dog is helping the coco!, though I think soon enough they will trim it...

and another one:

2z8e26b.jpg

To repeat what I have said before, this palm has some nice leaves, they are bigger than they look:). This coconut looks different from the others, the leaves look slightly thicker, maybe just an optical illusion.

I have more pictures to show soon from the marina coconuts, and with them great news and bad news, but I will leave that to Sunday when I get more time again.

Edited by Cluster

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Explorer

Hello again, sorry I have been a bit busy showing the island to some friends during the last days! I took some pictures around 9 days ago and wanted to share some updates!

Will begin with the "Jardim Almirante Reis" comparison!

February the sick palm looked like this:

27yc1g1.jpg

This coconut was lacking some kind of nutrients...With my limited research it looks like boron deficiency?

And now it looks like this:

vphppl.jpg

Still sick, seems to have a fuller crown though.

The 2nd healthier coconut in February:

2h3ssa9.jpg

and now:

2nm1uhj.jpg

The crown is getting fuller and round, the dog is helping the coco!, though I think soon enough they will trim it...

and another one:

2z8e26b.jpg

To repeat what I have said before, this palm has some nice leaves, they are bigger than they look:). This coconut looks different from the others, the leaves look slightly thicker, maybe just an optical illusion.

I have more pictures to show soon from the marina coconuts, and with them great news and bad news, but I will leave that to Sunday when I get more time again.

I guess its not lack of minirals but just the climate. Just warm enough to stay alive with a bit of growth but not the climate in wich it grows into a lush healthy palm. Last winter I went to Indonesia where you see coconut palms almost everywhere. There they have a much fuller crown.

Edited by Explorer

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Cluster

I respect your opinion but I disagree, If that was the case the 2nd coconut would look as bad and all the others, that is the only sick coconut I have seen that had small leaves like that. Here you can see a coconut in Malaysia with some leaves suffering from what I suspect to be the the same deficiency: https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienzieyung/5473225317/in/photostream/ or https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienzieyung/5463969073

The leaves just do not grow well when they suffer from boron, but this is just my suspicion.

There are coconuts on the island growing in less warmer zones looking way better, I have also seen and shown (for example already on this page, first 2 pictures post #422, you can clearly see the trimming on the 2nd picture) how they trim all the palms on the island. Tomorrow Sunday I will report something regarding that:(

Edited by Cluster

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Cluster

So I have been showing the coconuts from many parts of the island from early August, including Jardim (garden in english) Almirante de Reis in Funchal, in the latest posts. Nearly 10 days ago I also took some photos from the Marina ones in Funchal which I want to address today.

I am going to show each one of them from west to east as you cross the Marina, some of them were a bit dry last time I had seen them and they still look a bit, however they seem to be given more water lately and are looking slightly better:)

There is a good surprise but also bad news at the end :bummed:

2qntpqb.jpg

These are the tallest coconuts in the Marina, followed by the youngest one, you can clearly see trimming in the largest coconuts, even though the first one was getting a spherical crown! There are white flies in most coconuts, however.

To the left of the small coconut you find this one:

b5hb9e.jpg

It is still a bit dry, but during the winter (dry winter this year) it was looking slightly drier even! Glad they seem to be giving it more water. All these coconuts seem to lack enough space to really draw water efficiently.

In the next row we find our next coconut:

6jf2j6.jpg

While younger than the tallest ones, this one seems to be growing well when you compare it with some of the youngest pictures of it shown in this thread. It has potential:)

Left of the last coconut we find this one:

wgvmtd.jpg

This one is perhaps slightly older than the previous one, like most coconuts in the marina it is not fully happy with water requirements, but overall it is looking nice, the crown was starting to get more full/spherical

Next we have a coconut which I will talk again in the end, you can already see the latest coconut, the dwarf one, at its side:

332p191.jpg

This coconut suffered from penciling some years ago, which if I am right is due to over pruning or lack of nutrition, still it is the coconut that had the most spherical crown at the time of these pictures, they probably left it alone more time. In my opinion despite the bad conditions, it already shows a decent spherical crown, especially considering the said conditions and being so far from the equator:)

Edited by Cluster

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Cluster

Following up we have our dwarf:

6z7pjr.jpg

Despite the claims (which are probably true) of dwarfs being more needy and less resistant, the dwarf of the marina has always looked more healthy than the others in my opinion, this is probably due to the water requirements of the larger ones being so limited in such small spaces. Regardless this coconut has always shown the greenest fronds with less white flies and in my opinion it would already have a full spherical crown if left untrimmed, but alas not only did they take its fronds during the latest winter, they also took its coconuts. It looks way better in person by the way:) Maybe I should start recording videos too.

Another angle:

1zny2rl.jpg

Its color is awesome and the weird thing is that its fronds are as large as the tall ones?

So now that I have shown the palm itself, lets head back to the coconut before the dwarf (one with penciling)

doml5g.jpg

As you can see Madeira coconuts can fruit even in not so great conditions, I have taken pictures from both the dwarf and this one with growing coconuts, this closes the argument if they can give fruit:).

Another picture with more mature coconuts, in another frond:

200d4pi.jpg

Unlike the dwarf coconuts we saw last December, these ones have a different shape that is not round, the shape of a Jamaican tall.

I was quite happy this day and wanted to show you nice progress, but alas I can tell you some days after I went back and all the coconuts were trimmed...all the fruits were gone too. This is why we don't have coconuts fruiting on the island and why I can't go there and pick up one to try out:(

Regardless I am happy to have seen them looking more full and show you some pictures before the pruning hit them once again..to have seen growing coconuts.

Edited by Cluster

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Pargomad

I've got some bad news, today I went to Funchal since I'm on the island this month, and when I got there in the marina I felt completely disappointed, I was expecting coconut trees with nice fronds and some cocos on them... They trimmed them all, there are only three leaves per coco and no fruits on them... they look skinny now, like they were dying...

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Cluster

Yap these latest pictures you see here were taken one to 3 days before they got trimmed, this is how they looked some days ago before the trim festival:(. What you see is what I said in my last paragraph in the previous post Pargomad:

"I was quite happy this day and wanted to show you nice progress, but alas I can tell you some days after I went back and all the coconuts were trimmed...all the fruits were gone too".

I will take pictures of the trimmed coconuts at some point and post here for comparison. I have not yet been able to talk with people that could address these issues.

I also intend to go to the inn and Art hotel to report the supposedly super coconut there :). I think I have also found a coconut growing in a private garden at a high altitude in Funchal!

Edited by Cluster

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Pargomad

Hi everyone I'm back ! i just wanted to show you some pictures I took last summer in Porto Santo. Here's the proof that the northernmost coconut palms are actually on Porto Santo island and not Madeira. They are 3 (the fourth has been removed) and they seem to be in good shape, I wonder if they can fruit.

image.png

image.png

Edited by Pargomad
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Cluster

Hey Pargomad welcome back, I have been a bit busy as well but always reading the forums. 

Thank you for showing us pictures from Porto Santo with coconuts! it is the first time we see it taken by some member! 

I have to update this thread soon with the pictures I took from the coconuts back in August after they removed their fruits 3 days after I showed them here:( 

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Alicante
On 15/8/2015 21:03:11, Explorer said:

I guess its not lack of minirals but just the climate. Just warm enough to stay alive with a bit of growth but not the climate in wich it grows into a lush healthy palm. Last winter I went to Indonesia where you see coconut palms almost everywhere. There they have a much fuller crown.

+1, that explains their looking, but anyways, remember that it's at 32ºN so that's amazing^_^. I hope to see more of them growing on Madeira! 

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Cluster

It has been a while but it is time for coconuts on Madeira Island (also some scenic pics and other palms/leaves sometimes:) ). I am on the island for some days but before I gather new pictures and share them I want to show what happened to the coconuts from the Marina in August.

A few posts above (on the 17th August) on this page I shared how the Marina Coconuts were looking quite decent, but as I said before, 3 days after so around 20/21th when I returned they were very trimmed and all the coconut fruits seen in the pictures were gone.

I will show the pictures in the same order so you can compare each coconut tree directly if you are not familiar with the place

Here are the pictures after the trim:

K0QMbG9.jpg

 

GXlP5xu.jpg

fXo4WQR.jpg

042D0xG.jpg

wygEk9v.jpg

8vDJZ8f.jpg

As you can see it is really sad to see the before and after pictures, though with this we can understand a bit better why the coconuts don't look very nice on the island, not necessarily the climate. 

Edited by Cluster

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Cluster

Forgot to add the group picture after the trim:

2RQ8f1v.jpg

 

During that night took some photos of a cozy place with Archontophoenix

qoUXsDC.jpg

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Cluster

Since I am still updating August pictures I thought some of you would be interested to see some of the landscape from the northern parts of the island and the endemic laurisilva (taken in the same period) before reporting some recent coconut findings:)

 

Some Coastal pictures:

Z56UCqR.jpg

 

lIZS4u3.jpg

 

SEAP0ZH.jpg

 

mrgy0A5.jpg

 

Getting inside the island's endemic forest:

Laurisilva forest, endemic and protected by unesco

aaaHCjs.jpg

 

Rbfy28P.jpg

 

pNcYfKi.jpg

 

Some of these Laurels are older than the discovery of the island back in the 15th century:

h7s2RRK.jpg

 

Edited by Cluster

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Mr. Coconut Palm
5 hours ago, Cluster said:

Since I am still updating August pictures I thought some of you would be interested to see some of the landscape from the northern parts of the island and the endemic laurisilva (taken in the same period) before reporting some recent coconut findings:)

 

Some Coastal pictures:

Z56UCqR.jpg

 

lIZS4u3.jpg

 

SEAP0ZH.jpg

 

mrgy0A5.jpg

 

Getting inside the island's endemic forest:

Laurisilva forest, endemic and protected by unesco

aaaHCjs.jpg

 

Rbfy28P.jpg

 

pNcYfKi.jpg

 

Some of these Laurels are older than the discovery of the island back in the 15th century:

h7s2RRK.jpg

 

Pedro,

You have such a GORGEOUS island and the water there is so blue!  I am jealous of you!  I wish I could live there and teach those people how to properly take care of coconut palms and LET THEM GROW without savagely butchering them.  You really need to get it through to them to NOT TRIM their coconut palms, not even the nuts!  They don't butcher the other palms like that, so why do they do it to their coconut palms?  They really need to understand what a special blessing it is for them to have coconut palms capable of producing nuts that far north and how popular their palms are on the internet!

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