Ceroxylon quindiuense

[gyuseppe]

the Ceroxylon quindiuense is good for the climate of the Mediterranean?

thanks for info

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Yes, should be great! Better for Csb than Csa.

[DoomsDave]

We have quinudense in San Marino, near Pasadena, which, after 30+ years in the ground are still not trunking. But their leaves are 30 feet (10 M) long.

Magnifique! Bitchen! Fair Dinkum!

[gyuseppe]

Better for Csb than Csa.

please Axel ,what that means?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Better for Csb than Csa.

please Axel ,what that means?

Csa is hot Mediterranean climate, like inland Spain, Greece, the Middle East. Csb is cool Mediterranean climate, which is Portugal, Southern Spain, Southern France, etc... Italy is mostly Csb.

[ghar41]

We have quinudense in San Marino, near Pasadena, which, after 30+ years in the ground are still not trunking. But their leaves are 30 feet (10 M) long.

Magnifique! Bitchen! Fair Dinkum!

That is fascinating Dave...especially when one considers that they put on many feet of trunk in the same time frame....in a more proper climate at Darold's in SF

[Cikas]

Better for Csb than Csa.

please Axel ,what that means?

Csa is hot Mediterranean climate, like inland Spain, Greece, the Middle East. Csb is cool Mediterranean climate, which is Portugal, Southern Spain, Southern France, etc... Italy is mostly Csb.

Hmmm not really. Most of the Mediterranean coast is Csa, hot Mediterranean climate. Southern Portugal, Southern Spain, Southern France, huge part of Italy, Dalmatia ( Croatia ), huge part of Greece are Csa, hot Mediterranean climate.

For example Dubrovnik where I live ( it is located in southern Dalmatia ) and whole Dalmatia for that matter is Csa. Naples ( Italy ) were qiuseppe lives is also Csa.

Csb is actually very rare in true Mediterranean.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Cikas

[Rafael]

I am growing a lot of ceroxylon species.

By the way, southern Spain is definitely not mediterranean cool climate.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Well, maybe Csa versus Csb is useless. Felton 3 miles away from my house has Summer average high of 87F, hotter than Naples Italy's average of 86F.

Ceroxylon does well in cool highland conditions. Probably feasible in any Mediterranean climate that is USDA 9b/10a or warmer.

[Cikas]

Well, maybe Csa versus Csb is useless. Felton 3 miles away from my house has Summer average high of 87F, hotter than Naples Italy's average of 86F.

Ceroxylon does well in cool highland conditions. Probably feasible in any Mediterranean climate that is USDA 9b/10a or warmer.

With one huge difference. Csa is hot during the day and night in true Mediterranean. Our night temperatures during the summer are only slightly lower than daytime ones.

Felton has 45-50F ( 7-10C ) summer low average during the summer. In true Mediterranean, temperatures like that ( that low ) are science fiction during the summer.

Naples summer average low ( night temperatures ) is 65F ( 18.3C ), and even that is cold for Mediterranean during summer. Here in Dubrovnik our summer lows ( night temperatures ) are in 70-80F ( 21-26C ) range most of the time, sometime even hoter ( 86 f can happen during night here ).

Ceroxylon and other cool loving palms in the true Mediterranean will struggle with the heat during the day and night. They will not have any chill here during summer.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Cikas

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Thanks, Cicas, for once I've been able to get you to make my point. Ceroxylon don't like hot nights, but they don't mind warmish nights if it's relatively dry. The cut off for the right night time temperature isn't that well defined. The average low for the Huntington where the ceroxylons in Socal are is 68F (average high of 87F as well), and yet they grow ok there even if they slow down a bit during the Summer. For a good chunk of coastal Southern California, the Summer lows are also 68F, but the days are cool - 75F. And amazonicum can actually grow in Greece, but perhaps quindiuense would be unhappy.

My guess is that ceroxylon quindiuense would grow fine for Guyseppe and for a good chunk of the Mediterranean. Only Mediterranean climates bordering on desert climates or where it's colder than USDA 9b would really be unsuitable

[Tassie_Troy1971]

I just purchased a swag of Quinduense seeds off RPS so if and when they germinate i am sure they will appreciate my cool nights Sept - April 48 F - 60 F over night Winter is 33F - 50 F overnight Summer aver age max is between 65 - 75 F

Troy

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Troy, c. quindiuense will love your climate. I'd give it a go too, but my luck with RPS seed is so poor I am not going to put in another order. I paid $75 for the c. peruviana, and I have ZERO to show for it, not a single germination. I get seeds from others or collect them myself and they germinate like crazy. I get RPS seeds and nothing happens. I get less than 50% of their packets to germinate, i.e. some packets germinate 100%, others is a big fat zero or maybe one or two seeds will pop. What a disappointment.

[Pedro 65]

Troy, as we both well know here in Oz, "Dont listen to Crap" or slander, Ceroxylon seed from RPS that I sent you n Jonathan and germination here was "dynamite", and for "anyone" that has given up on C peruvianum seed from RPS, they are A1, ours are finally germinating now after "many months".

Everyone has different methods of "germination" and gardening for that matter.

Its good to have Patience and Gratitude when buying "rarepalmseeds"

Pete

[Bennz]

I've also found RPS seeds extremely good, but true one or two batches had zero germination. I strongly suspect that there are rare occaisons when something happens in international air travel that kills seeds. Seems to be the only explanation I can come up with why one person gets zero strike from same batch of seeds that perform very well everywhere else in the world. Very few of us would be so totally inept that our germination systems would kill all seeds.

Interesting to see if quindiuense could grow in climates with night temps consistently 20C+. If so, I need to totally re-evaluate my ideas of this palm! Amazonicum, alpinum etc maybe another story.

[Sim01]

Better for Csb than Csa.

please Axel ,what that means?

Csa is hot Mediterranean climate, like inland Spain, Greece, the Middle East. Csb is cool Mediterranean climate, which is Portugal, Southern Spain, Southern France, etc... Italy is mostly Csb.

Hmmm not really. Most of the Mediterranean coast is Csa, hot Mediterranean climate. Southern Portugal, Southern Spain, Southern France, huge part of Italy, Dalmatia ( Croatia ), huge part of Greece are Csa, hot Mediterranean climate.

For example Dubrovnik where I live ( it is located in southern Dalmatia ) and whole Dalmatia for that matter is Csa. Naples ( Italy ) were qiuseppe lives is also Csa.

Csb is actually very rare in true Mediterranean.

Cikas, are these data from a software? Do you know if they're available in shp files to be used in GIS softwares?

Thank you

Simon

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I've also found RPS seeds extremely good, but true one or two batches had zero germination. I strongly suspect that there are rare occaisons when something happens in international air travel that kills seeds. Seems to be the only explanation I can come up with why one person gets zero strike from same batch of seeds that perform very well everywhere else in the world. Very few of us would be so totally inept that our germination systems would kill all seeds.

Interesting to see if quindiuense could grow in climates with night temps consistently 20C+. If so, I need to totally re-evaluate my ideas of this palm! Amazonicum, alpinum etc maybe another story.

Ben, I took a chance and purchased a lot of old seeds from RPS, hence the bad success ratio. I successfully germinated ceroxylon ventricosum seeds almost two years ago, they popped within two months. But my c. peruvianum didn't pop at all. None of the RPS brahea germinated except for super silver, but my technique is fine because brahea seed from the Huntington germinated just fine. I shared my seeds with others and they had the same identical results as I did. Experienced nurserymen have told me that they also have had difficulty with some RPS seed, so I don't think it's got anything to do with being a beginner or not, especially given that my RPS seed got shared around to some folks with very successful germination experience who've all had the same issues with the same seed.

I would love to understand why some RPS seeds just won't pop given that I have 100% success with self collected seed, even when I leave them laying around for a while.

[LJG]

Axel, you need to remember that pulling seed right off the tree or canopy floor is always preferable. Seed I pull off my trees germinates within weeks sometimes. RPS is going from jungle, to city to Germany to your house. It is a long trip. So germinating seed that has been sitting can take patience or a more skilled tacticians practices with seed germination. I think you have some great advice from this thread you started:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/40450-how-to-improve-ceroxylon-germination-rate/

I had mine in the GH and after following Jonathan's advice I moved them outside the day of that thread. I just checked yesterday and my first one of the 10 I have sprouted.

Sometimes you just get crappy seed. When that is the case Toby has always been fair to me and to others I know that didn't get any germination with certain seed. But I think you need more time. If you find this maddening, don't try NewCal seed

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel, you need to remember that pulling seed right off the tree or canopy floor is always preferable. Seed I pull off my trees germinates within weeks sometimes. RPS is going from jungle, to city to Germany to your house. It is a long trip. So germinating seed that has been sitting can take patience or a more skilled tacticians practices with seed germination. I think you have some great advice from this thread you started:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/40450-how-to-improve-ceroxylon-germination-rate/

I had mine in the GH and after following Jonathan's advice I moved them outside the day of that thread. I just checked yesterday and my first one of the 10 I have sprouted.

Sometimes you just get crappy seed. When that is the case Toby has always been fair to me and to others I know that didn't get any germination with certain seed. But I think you need more time. If you find this maddening, don't try NewCal seed

The ceroxylon ventricosum did germinate outside. After Jonathan's post, i also took my peruviana outside. But so far nothing.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

What do you know? I just checked my peruvianum batch and one of them finally did pop. That is very promising!

[gyuseppe]

thank all for info :ceroxylon quindiuense

now I decided, 2 seedlings from germany

RPS:this year I bought seeds of 3 species of chamaedorea ,2 are germinated, and 1 is not germinated,therefore the majority germinated, my opinion is positive ,on the other hand where I could get chamaedorea warscewiczii ?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

thank all for info :ceroxylon quindiuense

now I decided, 2 seedlings from germany

RPS:this year I bought seeds of 3 species of chamaedorea ,2 are germinated, and 1 is not germinated,therefore the majority germinated, my opinion is positive ,on the other hand where I could get chamaedorea warscewiczii ?

Smart move, they'll do fine for you. As for RPS, now that one of my $75 ceroxylon seeds germinated, I feel better about RPS.

[Mr Rare]

The pictured palm is C. quindiuense growing in Vista, California.

This species is the largest of several I have planted and is represented as the tallest palm in the world said to grow to two hundred feet tall.

The trunks are coated in wax and appear very white.

This particular palm has approx. five feet of clean trunk and upright leaves measuring fifteen to eighteen feet in length.

The palm was planted approx. seventeen years ago and is really picking up speed in the last year wherein

I have removed four leaf bases exposing the majestic white trunk.

I have eight growing and long for the day when they are the tallest palms in my garden.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Here's my quindiuense, from old RPS seed:

[LUSITANIA/PALMS]

Hi,I'm twenty one(not for sale), I will make colombian land in northwest of portugal .

Humid climate of atlantic sea.

SM

[Pedro 65]

Hi,I'm twenty one(not for sale), I will make colombian land in northwest of portugal .

Humid climate of atlantic sea.

ceroxylon quindiuense 1.jpg

ceroxylon quindiuense.jpg

C.QUINDIUENSE.jpg

c.quindiuense 1.jpg

SM

Choice looking Ceroxylon Q's Luis, how old are the 1s in pots pls.

Ceroxylons are "very hardy and tough" as seedlings and young plants, I think they could be much more widely grown when growers find the "right location" in their gardens, pic below is young Amazonicums which are growing at a great pace, I have C quin seeds on thier way.

Mr Rare, Jeffry B , thats an awesome Cq you have, you too Axel, Pls post more pics of your CQs to help keep us all keen, many thanks

Pete

[Hillizard]

Learned via a tweet Jason Dewees posted yesterday that one of the mature C. quindiuense is flowering in the Strybing Arboretum in Golden Gate Park, San Francisco. This is possibly the first such occurrence in North America. It's a monecious species. For those of us on the West Coast, it's much more convenient (though less of an adventure) to witness this in person than a trip to Colombia.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_fcAIqUYAEOvJx.jpg

 

[Darold Petty]

All Ceroxylon palms are dioecious, each palm is solely one gender, staminate (M) or pistillate (F).  Therefore it take two to tango !  

  We have two adult C. vogelianum (formerly hexandrum) at the Lakeside Palmetum in Oakland.  Just by fortunate chance they are a pair.  They have made seed two or three times so far.  Squirrels usually predate the seeds, but I was able to obtain one mature infructesence.  I distributed these seeds to various persons throughout California.  I believe that this was the first Ceroxylon seed production from ex situ palms.  

  There are three other genera in the tribe Ceroxyleae,...  Oraniopsis, Ravenea, and Juania.  All species of these genera are thus also dioecious. 

My C. quindiuense is a seed sibling to the two at the SF Botanical Garden.  My late, dear friend Garrin Fullington collected the seed in April of 1976 in Tennerife, Colombia.  My palm is less tall than the Botanical Garden pair, as I can only irrigate 25% of its drip circle.  (It is in the right angle corner of my yard, wher four properties meet.) It has however developed a normal diameter trunk.  I will try to put up some data and photos tomorrow.

[Darold Petty]

Here is the link about the C. vogeliamum seed production,    

 

 

[Hillizard]

1 hour ago, Darold Petty said:

All Ceroxylon palms are dioecious, each palm is solely one gender, staminate (M) or pistillate (F).  Therefore it take two to tango !  

  We have two adult C. vogelianum (formerly hexandrum) at the Lakeside Palmetum in Oakland.  Just by fortunate chance they are a pair.  They have made seed two or three times so far.  Squirrels usually predate the seeds, but I was able to obtain one mature infructesence.  I distributed these seeds to various persons throughout California.  I believe that this was the first Ceroxylon seed production from ex situ palms.  

  There are three other genera in the tribe Ceroxyleae,...  Oraniopsis, Ravenea, and Juania.  All species of these genera are thus also dioecious. 

My C. quindiuense is a seed sibling to the two at the SF Botanical Garden.  My late, dear friend Garrin Fullington collected the seed in April of 1976 in Tennerife, Colombia.  My palm is less tall than the Botanical Garden pair, as I can only irrigate 25% of its drip circle.  (It is in the right angle corner of my yard, wher four properties meet.) It has however developed a normal diameter trunk.  I will try to put up some data and photos tomorrow.

Darold: My error re. Ceroxylon being "monecious." I saw that somewhere online and was more hopeful than careful in terms of the citation.  And thanks for supplying the local history of that genus. Very interesting!!

[Hillizard]

4 hours ago, Hillizard said:

Learned via a tweet Jason Dewees posted yesterday that one of the mature C. quindiuense is flowering in the Strybing Arboretum in Golden Gate Park, San Francisco. This is possibly the first such occurrence in North America. It's a monecious species. For those of us on the West Coast, it's much more convenient (though less of an adventure) to witness this in person than a trip to Colombia.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_fcAIqUYAEOvJx.jpg

 

Correction: All Ceroxylon species are dioecious.

[JasonD]

Here's a picture taken yesterday 18 July 2019 by Saul Nadler of the blooming Ceroxylon at San Francisco Botanical Garden. 

María José Sanín, the world expert on Ceroxylon, saw the photo I tweeted and got the impression of a Ceroxylon ventricosum from it. Later, she told me, "We are working on a new Ceroxylon phylogeny and ventri and quindi are all mixed so they will probably end up being one entity."

I have a bunch of other, older Ceroxylon photos from California I'll post later in a different thread.

[LJG]

7 minutes ago, JasonD said:

Here's a picture taken yesterday 18 July 2019 by Saul Nadler of the blooming Ceroxylon at San Francisco Botanical Garden. 

María José Sanín, the world expert on Ceroxylon, saw the photo I tweeted and got the impression of a Ceroxylon ventricosum from it. Later, she told me, "We are working on a new Ceroxylon phylogeny and ventri and quindi are all mixed so they will probably end up being one entity."

I have a bunch of other, older Ceroxylon photos from California I'll post later in a different thread.

Interesting. I wonder if they used dna to assist? 

[palmfriend]

Unfortunately a complete No-Go over here. Summer nights with around 31C from June until November - too bad! 

However keep the images coming, please - a wonderful plant!

Best regards from Okinawa -

Lars

 

[Darold Petty]

On 7/15/2019 at 1:49 PM, Darold Petty said:

My C. quindiuense is a seed sibling to the two at the SF Botanical Garden.  My late, dear friend Garrin Fullington collected the seed in April of 1976 in Tennerife, Colombia.  My palm is less tall than the Botanical Garden pair, as I can only irrigate 25% of its drip circle.  (It is in the right angle corner of my yard, wher four properties meet.) It has however developed a normal diameter trunk.  I will try to put up some data and photos tomorrow.

 

Better late than never !  Here are today's images of my palm.  It was ground planted in the spring of 1983.  The diameter is 42 cm (16.5 inch) and the wood trunk below the leafbases is about 8 m (26 feet).

[Cindy Adair]

This topic brings back wonderful memories of the last IPS Biennial. Thanks so much!

Hoping I can have my own little grove at 1000 ft in PR?

[JasonD]

On 7/20/2019 at 9:47 AM, Cindy Adair said:

This topic brings back wonderful memories of the last IPS Biennial. Thanks so much!

Hoping I can have my own little grove at 1000 ft in PR?

Ceroxylon amazonicum!