here is what the primo "killer" fe-EDDHA iron can do for you in Cali.....photos

[trioderob]

in California is easy to have the iron bound up in unusable form if the ph is too high.

even the ferts sometimes use crappy oxide form iron

but this stuff is a miracle of science - cant bind up.

very advanced chemical engineering here

some of my palms i have had jaw dropping transformations - going from sickly yellow to this insane "black/green" color

I now present proof:

this palm was yellow and on deaths door a few months ago

Edited August 16, 2014 by trioderob

[trioderob]

this baby was not a good color before the iron

[trioderob]

this DD can be almost a black color at times of the day

[trioderob]

please - nobody "stump head " me

The Fe-EDDHA story starts on December 11, 1953 in Berkeley, California, at a meeting sponsored by Geigy Chemical Corporation. It was at this meeting that Arthur Wallace of UCLA and Harry Kroll of Geigy met on a brain-storming session aimed at dreaming up the structure of a stable iron chelate. ^[3]

The first attempts to make fe-EDDHA commercially and agriculturally viable were made by Dr.Ramesh Patel of Agricon Chemicals,a leading plant nutritiononist and industrialist from India.He was awarded Padma Bhushan for this service to the agricultural world.In India the development,and use of EDDHA, EDTA and other such chelate fertilizers today is largely successful due to the pioneering efforts of such private players in India ^[4]

"so green -they are almost black " - Trioderob

Edited August 16, 2014 by trioderob

[trioderob]

oh-

one last tidbit- some of you might be thinking - "I can just add some bloodmeal"

no dice- it aint like this stuff - trust me

[trioderob]

[LJG]

Looking good Rob. That is so green - they are almost black .

I wonder how much of a difference it makes if it is cheated by EDDHA or what I use that is by DTPA?

[quaman58]

I'm a bit lost at what exactly it is that you're using. Is there a trade name for it?

[trioderob]

talk about greening up a palm.........................."so green - its almost black "

Edited August 17, 2014 by trioderob

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Don't use it if your pH isn't above 7.5. It can cause an iron manganese imbalance and induce frizzle top. Always fertilize the soil, not the plant. It is always wise to get a soil test before fertilizing...you can easily make things worse if you apply the wrong thing or the wrong amount of the right thing.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Looking good Rob. That is so green - they are almost black .

I wonder how much of a difference it makes if it is cheated by EDDHA or what I use that is by DTPA?

EDDHA keeps the iron chelated in higher pH conditions. So, if DTPA only works to pH 7.5 and EDDHA works to pH 9, I if your garden pH is 8, EDDHA works but DTPA doesn't. EDDHA is much more expensive too.

[trioderob]

the ph of the water here is 8.2

[LJG]

Looking good Rob. That is so green - they are almost black .

I wonder how much of a difference it makes if it is cheated by EDDHA or what I use that is by DTPA?

EDDHA keeps the iron chelated in higher pH conditions. So, if DTPA only works to pH 7.5 and EDDHA works to pH 9, I if your garden pH is 8, EDDHA works but DTPA doesn't. EDDHA is much more expensive too.

Thanks Keith.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Nice Dypsis decipiens Rob

[Tyrone]

Iron chelates is not effected much by pH, hence why it is working for you. Iron sulfate on the other hand will provide a microsecond of benefit in high pH soils, then lock up again. Very expensive, but who cares when you get ultra green stuff on high pH soils.

[quaman58]

I did end up trying this on some potted Beccariophoenix f. & it does seem to work well.

[Cedric]

OMGosh I wish my plams were less black green.

I get so envious of all that nice bright green I see in bad soils. Honestly. I would like for example to tone down my Wodyetia in particular which look like giant black monolithic spiders looming on the horizon.

Could I safely induce a measure of chlorosis somehow? Is this a dificiency in itself? Too dark green? I remember reading somewhere it was but can never find anything again to back this up or what to do about it. Its not with the slightest measure of stunting so not Boron.

I think bright fresh green is highly desirable, and yet the odd palm thats meant to be dark especialy with whitish rachis is fine but everything so dark green and shiny is gloomy. If it were not for the odd silver number my garden would be the heart of darkness.

Any ideas? I've tried everything. Just two or three tones lighter would do it. Wonder if I added some lime stone or calcium carbonate?

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

the ph of the water here is 8.2

You have the right product. I've recommended it myself. Becker Underwood used to have some excellent tools on their website. BASF bought them a couple years ago.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Iron chelates is not effected much by pH, hence why it is working for you. Iron sulfate on the other hand will provide a microsecond of benefit in high pH soils, then lock up again. Very expensive, but who cares when you get ultra green stuff on high pH soils.

Yes, and EDDHA is about 3x as expensive as DTPA. But it works when nothing else does.

[Tyrone]

I thought it was EDTA that was used in iron chelates. EDTA was discovered by chemists who were trying to make synthetic citric acid for the food industry. Actually Iron citrate is a form of iron chelates and is organic. Don't ask me how it's made though.

[palmislandRandy]

I've been using the same product with a different name "Sprint 138". I'm having the same results as Rob. A grower I know pours the powder directly into the growing point. Some of his palms look like their bleeding, but deep green. I had a leptocheilos go from almost white to a deep green. Amazing stuff for high ph soils.

-Randy

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

I thought it was EDTA that was used in iron chelates. EDTA was discovered by chemists who were trying to make synthetic citric acid for the food industry. Actually Iron citrate is a form of iron chelates and is organic. Don't ask me how it's made though.

EDTA is definitely one form of cheating agent. I hadn't heard about its discovery, however. That's interesting. Citric acid may indeed have cheating properties, but it's probably rather weak compared to the synthetic products. It is used in water soluble fertilizers to keep the dry blend pH low, and to provide some acidification in the liquid solution once the fertilizer dissolves, there is a lot of discussion about humates being cheating agents too. But they are also weak and incapable of protecting their metal ion in highly alkaline conditions.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

I've been using the same product with a different name "Sprint 138". I'm having the same results as Rob. A grower I know pours the powder directly into the growing point. Some of his palms look like their bleeding, but deep green. I had a leptocheilos go from almost white to a deep green. Amazing stuff for high ph soils.

-Randy

Randy, I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from taking actions that improve their plants; but if some misdiagnoses chlorotic new growth as iron deficient when it's actually manganese deficient, the condition will worsen if you add iron chelate. Here in FL, we have palm specific fertilizers designed to mitigate the nutrient deficiencies of our poor, sandy soil. Therefore our fertilizers probably wouldn't work well in Costa Rica, California, or much of Hawaii. This is an example of why I always refer to fertilizing the soil, not the plant. It's also similar to the way they are approaching fertilizer applications on large agronomist crops.

[palmislandRandy]

These before & after photos are a few years old & my D leptocheilos is still a brilliant dark green.The "before" was may 2011 & the "after" was taken June 2012. It took almost a year to turn it around, but it's beautiful now & to think this palm was destined to be removed.

-Randy

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

These before & after photos are a few years old & my D leptocheilos is still a brilliant dark green.The "before" was may 2011 & the "after" was taken June 2012. It took almost a year to turn it around, but it's beautiful now & to think this palm was destined to be removed.

-Randy

Its working beautifully. I planted a Teddy Bear here a month or so ago. Doubt it'll ever look as good as yours despite my more acidic soil here on the ridge. Hopefully i can keep it alive through the winter...... We get awfully frosty.

[BS Man about Palms]

One of these days when I think I'm ready for all the beauty I can handle, I'll delve further into the world of fertilizers. Then, these threads will make handy reference guides.

Thanks

[trioderob]

look at the palm in photo #6

it went from this color ( with stunted new fronds appearing to green/black in a month)

the water and ph of the soil can be really high here and the bagged ferts only use iron ferrite and sulphates.

Edited August 18, 2014 by trioderob

[Patrick]

nice results, thanks for the information. What kind of application rate are you using?

I have a couple cliff dates that need this stuff

Now I just need to figure out where to buy it up here in NorCal.....

[trioderob]

ebay

as the other guys have stated - this is science.

be sure you understand how all the other factors come into play and dont go overboard - its strong stuff.

too much can KILL your palm.

Edited August 18, 2014 by trioderob

[trioderob]

one last thing-

this stuff does NOT like sunlight.

dont leave the power out in the sun

apply it at sunrise or sunset - not my viewpoint - its right on the technical specification sheet !

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

While lunching, i found this very nice article on Chelates. Has the cool graphs showing which ones work based on the pH. So much more authoritative than me.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/HS/HS120800.pdf

[trioderob]

Ethylenediaminediaminedi-o-hydroxyphenylacetic acid

Dude - that's a great article

Edited August 18, 2014 by trioderob

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Ethylenediaminediaminedi-o-hydroxyphenylacetic acid

Dude - that's a great article

LOL. I suppose my fertilizer geek brain is showing.

[Bags]

I have been using Ironite which does a decent job of greening up. Is Ironite a good way to give plants iron? It looks like the stuff Rob is using is $50 plus for a five pound bag. Very pricey but if it works I am interested. Where in SoCal are you guys getting it?

[trioderob]

ironite uses sulfur to make the soil more acid so the iron can be absorbed.

if your soil is really alkaline this does not work well or only spikes the ph down in a burst.

this stuff uses a more complex chemical reaction where it releases iron than the chemical goes back and makes more iron available

this is a oversimplification - its really a technical google and read type scientific subject

let your palms be the judge if they need it- if in optimal health they will be a bright to dark green.

if you see yellow this time of year on new fronds it time to address the issue.

on real high ph soils some supplements are crap - this one on the other hand is "killer"

Edited August 20, 2014 by trioderob

[trioderob]

the big leaf is a cocoloba

the dude is not me and that's not a midget

Edited August 20, 2014 by trioderob

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I am getting much more chlorosis this year than before, we just had such low rainfalls here last Winter that the soil alkalinity has gone up significantly. Iron sulfate has worked before, but I might need to switch to the chelates. sequestrene 138 seems way too expensive, at $60/5lbs, it would make sense to try out cheaper chelates first to see if they work. I will try DTPA first to see how it works.

On a side note, I am now seeing the wisdom of using peat moss in potted palms. The nutrient uptake in the higher acidity soil is way better.