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Judean Date Palm

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Moose

I too have been wondering and searching for updates.... doesn't seem to be making any news lately - maybe that is a good thing and means the palm is growing normally. Figure anything different, would make the news... Jv

That may be a fair assumption. If the lot on this forum has not heard anything, there must not be anything unhappy to report. post-1261-1208739184.gif

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sarasota alex

rubyz hasn't visited the forum since June of 07. In one of his last posts he was upset about the lack of attention his discovery was getting, compared to the discovery of Tahina spectabilis (then still unnamed)

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iamjv

Yeah I remember that.... hopefully he'll see this subject has resurfaced and will chime in with any updates... Jv

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Nigel

Nevertheless, the following info has been leaked to me:

1. the palm is indeed genetically unique;

2. it has an 87% genetic similarity to the ancient Egyptian Hayani variety of p. dactylifera.

   

I am afraid I dont believe any of it and never did.

Man shares 98.55 of DNA with a chimpanzee and more than 80% with a rat and 60% with a banana.

If this date palm only shares 87% DNA as claimed then it seems to me to be total nonsense. It should be 99+% similar if it is a date palm. It wont change its DNA 13% in 200 years, especially when all those date palms in middle east are grown from offsets and not from seeds.

I am not a genetic expert so maybe somebody wants to correct me ,but this seems to indicate beyond doubt it is just trumped up nonsense.

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Alberto

Nevertheless, the following info has been leaked to me:

1. the palm is indeed genetically unique;

2. it has an 87% genetic similarity to the ancient Egyptian Hayani variety of p. dactylifera.

I am afraid I dont believe any of it and never did.

Man shares 98.55 of DNA with a chimpanzee and more than 80% with a rat and 60% with a banana.

If this date palm only shares 87% DNA as claimed then it seems to me to be total nonsense. It should be 99+% similar if it is a date palm. It wont change its DNA 13% in 200 years, especially when all those date palms in middle east are grown from offsets and not from seeds.

I am not a genetic expert so maybe somebody wants to correct me ,but this seems to indicate beyond doubt it is just trumped up nonsense.

Nigel,you and me belong to the same species. With a blood monster almost every person on earth has some different genes (excepted twins),that is the reason every human being is different from the other.

Maybe ,this ressurected date shares 87% of the genetic characteristics that differ this´´Hayani date´´ from other date palms.The total genetic difference between Methusala and a date palm growing in California etc is (let us say,??? I don´t know)..... 0.001%. Like you and me......

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Jeff zone 8 N.C.

I wonder how this palm is doing three years later? unsure.gif

Whether you are a believer or non-believer, this is the current information on this palm. It is alive, growing well, and is over two meters tall. It did undergo DNA analysis which gave some supporting, but limited information. Carbon testing of the seed shell fragments from the germinated seed supported the age. There is really no new information and will probably not be any until this plant decides to flower and reveal itself as male or female. The summary of the story was published two years ago in the journal Science:

Sallon, S., Solowey, E., Cohen, Y., Korchinsky, R., Egli, M., Woodhatch, I.,

Simchoni, O., Kislev, M. Germination, Genetics and Growth of an Ancient Date

Seed. Science, 320, 1464 (2008).

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iamjv

Jeff thanks for the update... good to hear the palm is doing well. Jv

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Xerarch

I would love to see some updated photos of this tree if they exist, it should be getting some size to it, how long does it take for a date to flower from seed? It's been over 6 years since this thread started.

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_Keith

Me too. I have forgotten about this story.

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Justin

I am hopeful that the Jubaeas on Rapa Nui will have a similar story one of these days.

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Zeeth

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

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Xerarch

I am hopeful that the Jubaeas on Rapa Nui will have a similar story one of these days.

That would really be something, I recently watched an interesting documentary on Easter Island, really fascinating and sad, one of the great examples deforestation in the world, the native but now extinct palm might be synonymous with Jubaea Chilensis but without an existing palm or viable seed we will never know!

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Funkthulhu

http://youtu.be/2NY3rG_0tlA

Found this on YouTube, published a year ago.

Seems they want to cross pollinate with an Egyptian variety to see what they get.

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Xerarch

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Aw shucks, but even if it was female, it would still need another variety to pollinate it, producing a hybrid anyway. What we really need is another 2,000 year old seed! I'm sure there will be much interest in genetically identical pups at the base. After all, essentially every medjool date in the world is a clone from only a handful of specimens brought to the U.S. while they were facing extinction in the old world.

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Zeeth

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Aw shucks, but even if it was female, it would still need another variety to pollinate it, producing a hybrid anyway. What we really need is another 2,000 year old seed! I'm sure there will be much interest in genetically identical pups at the base. After all, essentially every medjool date in the world is a clone from only a handful of specimens brought to the U.S. while they were facing extinction in the old world.

Yes but if it were female then it wouldn't matter what variety was used to pollinate, as the pups would be a better way to reproduce it than the seeds, and then date farms could have been made with the plant.

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Xerarch

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Aw shucks, but even if it was female, it would still need another variety to pollinate it, producing a hybrid anyway. What we really need is another 2,000 year old seed! I'm sure there will be much interest in genetically identical pups at the base. After all, essentially every medjool date in the world is a clone from only a handful of specimens brought to the U.S. while they were facing extinction in the old world.
Yes but if it were female then it wouldn't matter what variety was used to pollinate, as the pups would be a better way to reproduce it than the seeds, and then date farms could have been made with the plant.

Very true

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Brahea Axel

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Aw shucks, but even if it was female, it would still need another variety to pollinate it, producing a hybrid anyway. What we really need is another 2,000 year old seed! I'm sure there will be much interest in genetically identical pups at the base. After all, essentially every medjool date in the world is a clone from only a handful of specimens brought to the U.S. while they were facing extinction in the old world.
Yes but if it were female then it wouldn't matter what variety was used to pollinate, as the pups would be a better way to reproduce it than the seeds, and then date farms could have been made with the plant.
Very true

It's probably better this way, the odds of getting good fruit in an offspring even if the parent made good fruit isn't that great. This way, they can pollinate a bunch and see which one produces the best fruit.

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Xerarch

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Aw shucks, but even if it was female, it would still need another variety to pollinate it, producing a hybrid anyway. What we really need is another 2,000 year old seed! I'm sure there will be much interest in genetically identical pups at the base. After all, essentially every medjool date in the world is a clone from only a handful of specimens brought to the U.S. while they were facing extinction in the old world.
Yes but if it were female then it wouldn't matter what variety was used to pollinate, as the pups would be a better way to reproduce it than the seeds, and then date farms could have been made with the plant.
Very true
It's probably better this way, the odds of getting good fruit in an offspring even if the parent made good fruit isn't that great. This way, they can pollinate a bunch and see which one produces the best fruit.

I think the point is that if we had a female, we would have fruit to taste, regardless of what had to pollinate it, all the pups would be clones so we would have a new fruiting cultivar to spread around if we liked the fruit. As it is, with the male, we can still spread it around for its ornamental and historical value, just not fruit value.

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Brahea Axel

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Aw shucks, but even if it was female, it would still need another variety to pollinate it, producing a hybrid anyway. What we really need is another 2,000 year old seed! I'm sure there will be much interest in genetically identical pups at the base. After all, essentially every medjool date in the world is a clone from only a handful of specimens brought to the U.S. while they were facing extinction in the old world.
Yes but if it were female then it wouldn't matter what variety was used to pollinate, as the pups would be a better way to reproduce it than the seeds, and then date farms could have been made with the plant.
Very true
It's probably better this way, the odds of getting good fruit in an offspring even if the parent made good fruit isn't that great. This way, they can pollinate a bunch and see which one produces the best fruit.
I think the point is that if we had a female, we would have fruit to taste, regardless of what had to pollinate it, all the pups would be clones so we would have a new fruiting cultivar to spread around if we liked the fruit. As it is, with the male, we can still spread it around for its ornamental and historical value, just not fruit value.

This might make an interesting read: http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/date.html. You will see that seedlings don't produce choice dates. You need a cultivar. A seedling from a cultivar also doesn't produce choice dates. You need to plant a lot of seedlings to create a superior cultivar. The genes of the old biblical time date cultivars are in the male, and a good breeding program will give those genes an opportunity for expression. I am basically saying the glass is half full.

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Alicehunter2000

On the video I noticed that she said that this palm was the only one that sprouted from the seeds that she was given. It sounds to me that there are more seeds, but that she was given only a few to experiment with. One would think that since she was successful with one...they would allow her to try germination with additional seeds.

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Funkthulhu

On the video I noticed that she said that this palm was the only one that sprouted from the seeds that she was given. It sounds to me that there are more seeds, but that she was given only a few to experiment with. One would think that since she was successful with one...they would allow her to try germination with additional seeds.

I noticed that too, but I've been unable to find any information about other seeds whether alive or dead.

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Moose
On 7/21/2013, 10:24:43, Funkthulhu said:

http://youtu.be/2NY3rG_0tlA

 

Found this on YouTube, published a year ago.

 

Seems they want to cross pollinate with an Egyptian variety to see what they get.

Sounds like the thing to do.

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Zeeth

Thanks for the update! It's good to see that they had success sprouting some female plants too. 

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Alicehunter2000

To bad they don't show an updated picture.

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Matthew92

Wonder how its cold hardiness compares to dactylifera.

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Phoenikakias

I have seen a modern date palm with so sharp angle between acanthophylls and petiole, that former seem spreading parallel to petiole. Same plant has very long pseudopetioles just like Methuselah appears to be. So a very old origin of a very modern appearance.

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buffy

They have fruit. Check it out. 

 

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Arecaceae78743

more videos.

 

 :drool:dates 

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Butch

Thanks for posting... I really enjoyed the vids...

Butch

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Joe The Palm

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Edited by Joe The Palm
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