Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

Judean Date Palm


rubyz

Recommended Posts

I too have been wondering and searching for updates.... doesn't seem to be making any news lately - maybe that is a good thing and means the palm is growing normally. Figure anything different, would make the news... Jv

That may be a fair assumption. If the lot on this forum has not heard anything, there must not be anything unhappy to report. post-1261-1208739184.gif

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

Link to comment
Share on other sites

rubyz hasn't visited the forum since June of 07. In one of his last posts he was upset about the lack of attention his discovery was getting, compared to the discovery of Tahina spectabilis (then still unnamed)

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I remember that.... hopefully he'll see this subject has resurfaced and will chime in with any updates... Jv

Jv in San Antonio Texas / Zone 8/extremes past 29 yrs: 117F (47.2C) / 8F (-13.3C)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nevertheless, the following info has been leaked to me:

1. the palm is indeed genetically unique;

2. it has an 87% genetic similarity to the ancient Egyptian Hayani variety of p. dactylifera.

   

I am afraid I dont believe any of it and never did.

Man shares 98.55 of DNA with a chimpanzee and more than 80% with a rat and 60% with a banana.

If this date palm only shares 87% DNA as claimed then it seems to me to be total nonsense. It should be 99+% similar if it is a date palm. It wont change its DNA 13% in 200 years, especially when all those date palms in middle east are grown from offsets and not from seeds.

I am not a genetic expert so maybe somebody wants to correct me ,but this seems to indicate beyond doubt it is just trumped up nonsense.

Resident in Bristol UK.

Webshop for hardy palms and hybrid seeds www.hardy-palms.co.uk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nevertheless, the following info has been leaked to me:

1. the palm is indeed genetically unique;

2. it has an 87% genetic similarity to the ancient Egyptian Hayani variety of p. dactylifera.

I am afraid I dont believe any of it and never did.

Man shares 98.55 of DNA with a chimpanzee and more than 80% with a rat and 60% with a banana.

If this date palm only shares 87% DNA as claimed then it seems to me to be total nonsense. It should be 99+% similar if it is a date palm. It wont change its DNA 13% in 200 years, especially when all those date palms in middle east are grown from offsets and not from seeds.

I am not a genetic expert so maybe somebody wants to correct me ,but this seems to indicate beyond doubt it is just trumped up nonsense.

Nigel,you and me belong to the same species. With a blood monster almost every person on earth has some different genes (excepted twins),that is the reason every human being is different from the other.

Maybe ,this ressurected date shares 87% of the genetic characteristics that differ this´´Hayani date´´ from other date palms.The total genetic difference between Methusala and a date palm growing in California etc is (let us say,??? I don´t know)..... 0.001%. Like you and me......

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how this palm is doing three years later? unsure.gif

Whether you are a believer or non-believer, this is the current information on this palm. It is alive, growing well, and is over two meters tall. It did undergo DNA analysis which gave some supporting, but limited information. Carbon testing of the seed shell fragments from the germinated seed supported the age. There is really no new information and will probably not be any until this plant decides to flower and reveal itself as male or female. The summary of the story was published two years ago in the journal Science:

Sallon, S., Solowey, E., Cohen, Y., Korchinsky, R., Egli, M., Woodhatch, I.,

Simchoni, O., Kislev, M. Germination, Genetics and Growth of an Ancient Date

Seed. Science, 320, 1464 (2008).

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeff thanks for the update... good to hear the palm is doing well. Jv

Jv in San Antonio Texas / Zone 8/extremes past 29 yrs: 117F (47.2C) / 8F (-13.3C)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...

I would love to see some updated photos of this tree if they exist, it should be getting some size to it, how long does it take for a date to flower from seed? It's been over 6 years since this thread started.

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Me too. I have forgotten about this story.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am hopeful that the Jubaeas on Rapa Nui will have a similar story one of these days.

Resident of Puerto de la Cruz, Tenerife, San Diego, CA and Pahoa, HI.  Former garden in Vista, CA.  Garden Photos

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am hopeful that the Jubaeas on Rapa Nui will have a similar story one of these days.

That would really be something, I recently watched an interesting documentary on Easter Island, really fascinating and sad, one of the great examples deforestation in the world, the native but now extinct palm might be synonymous with Jubaea Chilensis but without an existing palm or viable seed we will never know!

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://youtu.be/2NY3rG_0tlA

Found this on YouTube, published a year ago.

Seems they want to cross pollinate with an Egyptian variety to see what they get.

"Ph'nglui mglw'napalma Funkthulhu R'Lincolnea wgah'palm fhtagn"
"In his house at Lincoln, dread Funkthulhu plants palm trees."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Aw shucks, but even if it was female, it would still need another variety to pollinate it, producing a hybrid anyway. What we really need is another 2,000 year old seed! I'm sure there will be much interest in genetically identical pups at the base. After all, essentially every medjool date in the world is a clone from only a handful of specimens brought to the U.S. while they were facing extinction in the old world.

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Aw shucks, but even if it was female, it would still need another variety to pollinate it, producing a hybrid anyway. What we really need is another 2,000 year old seed! I'm sure there will be much interest in genetically identical pups at the base. After all, essentially every medjool date in the world is a clone from only a handful of specimens brought to the U.S. while they were facing extinction in the old world.

Yes but if it were female then it wouldn't matter what variety was used to pollinate, as the pups would be a better way to reproduce it than the seeds, and then date farms could have been made with the plant.

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Aw shucks, but even if it was female, it would still need another variety to pollinate it, producing a hybrid anyway. What we really need is another 2,000 year old seed! I'm sure there will be much interest in genetically identical pups at the base. After all, essentially every medjool date in the world is a clone from only a handful of specimens brought to the U.S. while they were facing extinction in the old world.
Yes but if it were female then it wouldn't matter what variety was used to pollinate, as the pups would be a better way to reproduce it than the seeds, and then date farms could have been made with the plant.

Very true

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Aw shucks, but even if it was female, it would still need another variety to pollinate it, producing a hybrid anyway. What we really need is another 2,000 year old seed! I'm sure there will be much interest in genetically identical pups at the base. After all, essentially every medjool date in the world is a clone from only a handful of specimens brought to the U.S. while they were facing extinction in the old world.
Yes but if it were female then it wouldn't matter what variety was used to pollinate, as the pups would be a better way to reproduce it than the seeds, and then date farms could have been made with the plant.
Very true

It's probably better this way, the odds of getting good fruit in an offspring even if the parent made good fruit isn't that great. This way, they can pollinate a bunch and see which one produces the best fruit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Aw shucks, but even if it was female, it would still need another variety to pollinate it, producing a hybrid anyway. What we really need is another 2,000 year old seed! I'm sure there will be much interest in genetically identical pups at the base. After all, essentially every medjool date in the world is a clone from only a handful of specimens brought to the U.S. while they were facing extinction in the old world.
Yes but if it were female then it wouldn't matter what variety was used to pollinate, as the pups would be a better way to reproduce it than the seeds, and then date farms could have been made with the plant.
Very true
It's probably better this way, the odds of getting good fruit in an offspring even if the parent made good fruit isn't that great. This way, they can pollinate a bunch and see which one produces the best fruit.

I think the point is that if we had a female, we would have fruit to taste, regardless of what had to pollinate it, all the pups would be clones so we would have a new fruiting cultivar to spread around if we liked the fruit. As it is, with the male, we can still spread it around for its ornamental and historical value, just not fruit value.

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Methuselah flowered in March 2011 and is male"

How unfortunate

Aw shucks, but even if it was female, it would still need another variety to pollinate it, producing a hybrid anyway. What we really need is another 2,000 year old seed! I'm sure there will be much interest in genetically identical pups at the base. After all, essentially every medjool date in the world is a clone from only a handful of specimens brought to the U.S. while they were facing extinction in the old world.
Yes but if it were female then it wouldn't matter what variety was used to pollinate, as the pups would be a better way to reproduce it than the seeds, and then date farms could have been made with the plant.
Very true
It's probably better this way, the odds of getting good fruit in an offspring even if the parent made good fruit isn't that great. This way, they can pollinate a bunch and see which one produces the best fruit.
I think the point is that if we had a female, we would have fruit to taste, regardless of what had to pollinate it, all the pups would be clones so we would have a new fruiting cultivar to spread around if we liked the fruit. As it is, with the male, we can still spread it around for its ornamental and historical value, just not fruit value.

This might make an interesting read: http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/date.html. You will see that seedlings don't produce choice dates. You need a cultivar. A seedling from a cultivar also doesn't produce choice dates. You need to plant a lot of seedlings to create a superior cultivar. The genes of the old biblical time date cultivars are in the male, and a good breeding program will give those genes an opportunity for expression. I am basically saying the glass is half full.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the video I noticed that she said that this palm was the only one that sprouted from the seeds that she was given. It sounds to me that there are more seeds, but that she was given only a few to experiment with. One would think that since she was successful with one...they would allow her to try germination with additional seeds.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the video I noticed that she said that this palm was the only one that sprouted from the seeds that she was given. It sounds to me that there are more seeds, but that she was given only a few to experiment with. One would think that since she was successful with one...they would allow her to try germination with additional seeds.

I noticed that too, but I've been unable to find any information about other seeds whether alive or dead.

"Ph'nglui mglw'napalma Funkthulhu R'Lincolnea wgah'palm fhtagn"
"In his house at Lincoln, dread Funkthulhu plants palm trees."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
On 7/21/2013, 10:24:43, Funkthulhu said:

http://youtu.be/2NY3rG_0tlA

 

Found this on YouTube, published a year ago.

 

Seems they want to cross pollinate with an Egyptian variety to see what they get.

Sounds like the thing to do.

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the update! It's good to see that they had success sprouting some female plants too. 

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To bad they don't show an updated picture.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
  • Upvote 2

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have seen a modern date palm with so sharp angle between acanthophylls and petiole, that former seem spreading parallel to petiole. Same plant has very long pseudopetioles just like Methuselah appears to be. So a very old origin of a very modern appearance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Image result for methuselah tree israel

  • Upvote 9

The weight of lies will bring you down / And follow you to every town / Cause nothin happens here

That doesn't happen there / So when you run make sure you run / To something and not away from

Cause lies don't need an aero plane / To chase you anywhere

--Avett Bros

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 years later...

They have fruit. Check it out. 

 

  • Like 5
  • Upvote 1

Longview, Texas :: Record Low: -5F, Feb. 16, 2021 :: Borderline 8A/8B :: '06-'07: 18F / '07-'08: 21F / '08-'09: 21F / '09-'10: 14F / '10-'11: 15F / '11-'12: 24F / '12-'13: 23F / '13-'14: 15F / '14-'15: 20F / '15-'16: 27F / '16-'17: 15F / '17-'18: 8F / '18-'19: 23F / '19-'20: 19F / '20-'21: -5F / '21-'22: 20F / '22-'23: 6F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...