Ceroxylon quindiuense in SoCal

[Matt in SD]

I have a Ceroxylon quindiuense in a tall 3g pot that is, I think, ready for the ground.  The leaves are partially pinnate and about 2 - 2 1/2 feet long (I'll try to post a photo tomorrow), and it's very robust holding probably 8-9 good leaves.  This plant has grown in my greenhouse for the last 3 years where it definitely doesn't seem to mind the heat.  So how much sun should I plant it in?  How do they look in general in SoCal?  I've seen the plants at the Huntington, but it's been a while, I think they looked pretty good.  Also I think my climate might be a little more suitable.    

I know that DypsisDean has several Ceroxylons growing here in SoCal, so hopefully he can chime in here.  Not sure if he's growing C quindiuense.  Anyone else with experience I'd love to hear from as well.  

Matt

[Bennz]

HI Matt,

I cant help you on Cal. growing, but I am very interested in your greenhouse comment. There seems to be a lot of disagreement on heat preferences with Ceroxylon, some people saying they need cold nights. Can you tell me what kind of temp. ranges your GH expereinces? Does it ever get cold at night?

I've got 1200 seeds of this species coming soon, and another 500 each of vogellianum and ventricosoum sown a month or so ago. I am still not really sure whether I should be giving them warm or cold condiitons.

Dick Endt made a comment on C. quindiuense in the latest NZ Palm & Cycad magazine. His coment was that his palms (West Auckland, wet, mild humid) growing with roots shaded by bananas are now about twice the size of those planted with root area  in the sun. Suggesting they like the cold.

Dicks Quidiuense, about 18 years in the ground from memory.

[Matt in SD]

Ben,

My greenhouse is not heated so the nights are cool in summer (60s F, 15-20C) and pretty cold in winter (45-55F, 7-12C).  So it is very possible that is why it did well in there.  Just an FYI, I had a Geonoma undata in there as well that grew very fast.  It's outside now and growing slower.  So maybe the night temps are the most important issue for these high elevation palms.  They seem to grow faster with warm days for sure.

Matt

[Bennz]

Matt, how much control do you put on daytime heat? Do you limit it, or does it occaisonally get really hot 40C+? Most of the habitat of these palms are around 20C or so day (15-25 anyway), and often 10C or colder at night. So I would imagine that really hot temps may be detrimental. Or are they more like Butia etc that actually really thrive in real heat? I guess many palms really thrive and grow best in cliamtes a little warmer than their natural habitat...

Either way, you have convinced me I need to provide more daytime heat for my plants. I guess even a simple cloche system with open sides would do, higher daytime temps but same nights...

[Shon]

Matt, quick question where did you get your Geonoma undata?Looking for one can't seem to find one anywhere.

                            Shon

[richnorm]

Ben,

In my very limited experience seedling loss is  lesser outside of the greenhouse.  Possibly humidity plus heat above 25c is the issue up here in Auckland.  The small ones seem to sucumb to rot easily.  Mine grow through our winter and are very strong plants.  Three year olds from seed up to 75cm.  I give them a little morning sun only. Respond well to feed.  The Endt's advice for older plants was to keep the roots cool but give plenty of sun.  Their largest plants (by a mile) are those in full sun......

[BS Man about Palms]

Matt-

I have/had about 6-7 types of Ceroxys thru this last winter.

VERY prone to cold/wet rot.  When it was cold in Feb, I would swear they grew faster! Then the rains came to and half of them died. (outside of course)

My biggest is my 15 gal Quiniuense and it and the others have had a slow sun acclimation, but seem to be growing out of it now.

when small the emerging spear kinda reminds me of a Polyandrococos!  Very Cool.

Deans look great, I hope mine get like Deans or Pauleens.

Bill

[Matt in SD]

Ben,

My greenhouse is typically 80-85F (27-29C) during the day.  It does get up to 105F occaisonally (40F) but this is usually in the winter when we have heat wave and these high temps probably don't last too long.  So it's not real hot in there as greenhouses go, but it's definitely quite a bit warmer than the palms native area.

Shon, I got my G undata from Jungle Music (Phil on this board).  They may still have a few.  There are also seeds available from ortanique I think right now.

I'm still mulling over different areas to plant.  Since I've taken the palm out of my greenhouse last week, there is some leaf burn from just a very short period of late afternoon sun, which makes me a bit nervous.  It definitely is going to look ugly for a while, even if I plant it in filtered light.

Matt

[DoomsDave]

I have about a half dozen or so C. quinudense, and they grow well for me in the shade in pots.  They're all in fives or fifteens, and they're in the shade.  At this time of the year they KFC rapidly in the sun.  Rate-wise, I'd call them moderate.  

I planted one in the ground under my infamous Tree of Lust and Desire (a Cedrus deodar).  It died this winter, from what appeared to be some kind of rot.  I do have clay soil, and some plants don't like it.  

I'll try again, this time on a sandy-loamy mound, and pray to the Feathered Barfing Snake that it grows.

dave

[BS Man about Palms]

(Matt in SD @ Jul. 19 2006,12:07)

QUOTE

Ben,

My greenhouse is typically 80-85F (27-29C) during the day.  It does get up to 105F occaisonally (40F) but this is usually in the winter when we have heat wave and these high temps probably don't last too long.  So it's not real hot in there as greenhouses go, but it's definitely quite a bit warmer than the palms native area.

Shon, I got my G undata from Jungle Music (Phil on this board).  They may still have a few.  There are also seeds available from ortanique I think right now.

I'm still mulling over different areas to plant.  Since I've taken the palm out of my greenhouse last week, there is some leaf burn from just a very short period of late afternoon sun, which makes me a bit nervous.  It definitely is going to look ugly for a while, even if I plant it in filtered light.

Matt

Matt- Sorry, I thjought about it, I just forgot to type it, I have noticed these are VERY slow to acclimate to the sun from a green house.  On the order of a Chambeyronia I would say. I try to keep most in morning sun... if at all.

[Greg in Lake Forest CA]

Matt.

I've been meaning to get one in the round.  I grew a bunch up from seed to presently nice 5 gallons.  Those in the deepest shade are the most robust. Most are pinnate, or starting pinnate leaves.  Much more robust than alpinum.  

Have not put any of them in much sun, so can't help you there.  All mine have been grown outside.  Your climate should be condusive to growing a nice one.  Probably best to start it in filtered sun though.

[Dypsisdean]

Matt,

I do have three large Ceroxylon, all ready to begin putting on trunk after 10+ years in the ground. Two are just C. sp. and one C. alpinum. I'm usually not at a lose to offer advice, but in this case I don't really know what is best for these. All of mine went in about half/half shade/sun as 1 and 2 Gal plants. I have no idea if they would be bigger faster if given full sun. I'm not much help am I? The only thing I do remember is they didn't seem to have as many roots at that size as other palms that eventually get good size.

[Tyrone]

I've never had real success with this genus. I can germinate them and get them to 4 or 5 leaf stage, then hot summer weather comes and they stop and I lose a percentage, then winter comes and by Spring the survivers have recovered, then hot waether comes and I lose more in the summer autumn period. I've grown C alpinum, quindiense, echinulatum and amazonicum, and I've only got a few amazonicum still alive. I won't be bothering with this genus anymore. I gave away a couple of C quindiense to a friend who lives at about 35S at approx 400m elevation and his are cranking and looking real impressive. They are a beautiful genus, but I'm hopeless with them, much to my dissapointment.

regards

Tyrone

[Gary]

Ben this is how I grow them,you have been to my place so know the story.These are 3yr old and orginally would have been approx 100seeds in a pot,now i have the surviving 10 which shouldbe the strong ones.I usually get high germination on these and high death rate within the first 2yrs but am happy with the results.These are outside all year round.Have not figured out how to post photo yet

[DoomsDave]

Gary!

Nice to meet you!

Always good to see fellow-sufferers from way-down-under, or, perhaps, way-high-above . . . .

Post some pics of your garden, your neighborhood, I wanna see.

dave

[Jdiaz31089]

I just bought c. alpinum and quindense seed from RPS after seeing the ones at the Botanical Garden in San Francisco. I know I'm pushing my luck with these but it never hurts to try right? 

Does anyone have updates on the ceroxylons in warm, inland locations? Share pictures please!

[rprimbs]

I too am curious to see pictures of these.  It's one of my gotta have palms!

[Pip]

I'd share a pic of my Ceroxylon quindiuense and echinulatum but they are are only seedlings so not that exciting. I have my fingers crossed that this summer (thier second) will be kind to them.