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Alicehunter2000

Sabal's that LOVE Water

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Alicehunter2000

Ok, most of us already know that Sabal Palmetto LOVES water. In fact it is almost aquatic in some areas where the bottom remains submerged for months at a time. We know it can handle both saltwater and freshwater.

Sabal minor is another that not only handles inundation but thrives.

What other Sabal's are true water lovers....and do you have pictures to prove it.

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Sabal Steve

For what it's worth, I've always heard that Yapa and Mauritiformis are the least drought tolerant (along with minor), however, I haven't heard any feedback on them being submerged longer periods.

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Alicehunter2000

Yes, now that I'm starting to add more Sabal species I'm wondering what side of the yard to put them. Currently the Northeast corner is only about a foot above the water table (with recent floods). Will causiarum handle this ok? urseana? Various cultivars?

We hear a lot about drought tolorances, but not too much concerning waterlogged soils.

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Brahea Axel

I challenge you to find a sabal that doesn't like wet feet in warm conditions. I soak my potted sabal for 24h at a time.

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Alicehunter2000

Looked over the fence at a little Sabal bermudana thats been sitting in water for a couple of weeks....it looks dead.

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Brahea Axel

Are you sure it didn't get fried last Winter?

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Sabal Steve

Yes, now that I'm starting to add more Sabal species I'm wondering what side of the yard to put them. Currently the Northeast corner is only about a foot above the water table (with recent floods). Will causiarum handle this ok? urseana? Various cultivars?

We hear a lot about drought tolorances, but not too much concerning waterlogged soils.

Might be worth a little more investigation into S. uresana. It wouldn't surprise me if it didn't mind being wet in warm conditions, but it originated in a desert setting. I know that they are growing around FL, and apparently don't mind the humidity.

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Alicehunter2000

Axel, it did get popped this winter but had a couple of nice new green fronds before the inundation began. Ill get a picture....its standing in water.

Good info on urseana. ....didn't know that....helpful.

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Brahea Axel

Well, so much for my theory, I guess only minor and palmettos must like standing water.

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sonoranfans

sabal uresana is a desert palm, the common name is sonoran palmetto(sonoran desert). I doubt it likes standing water. Mauritiiformis likes water but isnt cold hardy for your zone david. I saw a sabal causiarum on Kens farm a few years ago looking fine in his rocky wet soil. You are close to salt water, are you sure there isnt a salt tolerance problem? Standing brackish water could be a problem for bermudana and many palms, though sabal palmetto does fine in brackish areas.

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Brahea Axel

Maybe we need a simple sabal cultivation table. Here's what I put together. Perhaps people can chime in on the accuracy.

ScreenShot2014-05-17at94418AM_zps732d13b

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JLeVert

Interesting list. From my experience in the Southeast US, I would change the hardiness zone on a few of the Sabals:

Sabal 'Birmingham'- 8a (survived single digits on several occasions)

Sabal bermudana - 8b (old specimens observed in far North Florida; survived multiple low teen events)

Sabal tamaulipas - 7b (nice ones at the Atlanta Botanical Garden and in Anniston, AL)

Sabal causiarum - 8b (went through 13F - 15F this past winter in Augusta, GA; windburn on the foliage only)

Sabal rosei - 8b (no appreciable damage this winter after 13F)

I think that the other numbers are about right.

Please let me know what your experience has been.

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Brahea Axel

Here's the edited list:

ScreenShot2014-05-17at13037PM_zps0d395c2

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Alicehunter2000

Wow...great chart Axel! Where did you find that?

The palm in question might have been a S. maritima? Can't read my tag. Anyways it was virtually under water (about 1 ft. Of standing water) I dug it, several crepe myrtles, a southern magnolia, 2 loquats. The little palm was indeed alive.... but struggling badly....everything is in a dryer location now instead of Waterworld.

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WestCoastGal

Don't know what people's experience has been but thought I'd mention that the Univ of Florida IFAS Extension lists Sabal minor as drought tolerant: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fp518 . Which brings to mind the question how does one qualify levels of drought tolerance? Since it's a Florida site, I'm wondering if the humidity in Florida would affect that description. Like maybe considered drought tolerant in Florida but not in more arid areas it grows?

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Brahea Axel

Don't know what people's experience has been but thought I'd mention that the Univ of Florida IFAS Extension lists Sabal minor as drought tolerant: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fp518 . Which brings to mind the question how does one qualify levels of drought tolerance? Since it's a Florida site, I'm wondering if the humidity in Florida would affect that description. Like maybe considered drought tolerant in Florida but not in more arid areas it grows?

It's listed explicitly as one of the only drought intolerant sabal in "The Encyclopedia Of Cultivated Palms" by Paul Craft. So feel free to pick which source you trust. I trust Paul Craft.

Wow...great chart Axel! Where did you find that?

The palm in question might have been a S. maritima? Can't read my tag. Anyways it was virtually under water (about 1 ft. Of standing water) I dug it, several crepe myrtles, a southern magnolia, 2 loquats. The little palm was indeed alive.... but struggling badly....everything is in a dryer location now instead of Waterworld.

I created it. That's why I was asking for feedback.

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Phoenikakias

Don't know what people's experience has been but thought I'd mention that the Univ of Florida IFAS Extension lists Sabal minor as drought tolerant: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fp518 . Which brings to mind the question how does one qualify levels of drought tolerance? Since it's a Florida site, I'm wondering if the humidity in Florida would affect that description. Like maybe considered drought tolerant in Florida but not in more arid areas it grows?

Very well considered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I extend further your consideration, asking what is meant by drought tolerance. is it confined only to mere survival or it includes also the promotion of new growth? Could in other words a palm, that becomes completely stunted in dry conditions, be described as drought tolerant?

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Alicehunter2000

Strange that you would list the island species as being intolerant of salt. After all they are on islands. That being said....I have no clue....did you compile using research data from different sources..or are they just guesstamations.

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Brahea Axel

Strange that you would list the island species as being intolerant of salt. After all they are on islands. That being said....I have no clue....did you compile using research data from different sources..or are they just guesstamations.

Island doesn't equate coastal if there are mountains. But don't take anything in the table as gospel, it's based on various sources, both books and internet publications.

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blake_tx

Sabal mexicanas are very hardy. 8a possibly 7b. All the ones around town took 14f without any damage. i even have three two leaf seedlings out all winter completely neglected and they had no damage at all. These are a very drought tolerant and very hardy sabal! They also love water as well. very adaptable to all situations!

Edited by blake_tx

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AJQ

I drowned a Palmetto :-( a few years ago. Also I guess All Sabals need heat, even Minors. The best results so far for me are Riverside and Bermudana, still slow enough though :-(

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Keith in SoJax

Some provenances of S. minor are hardy into zone 6B, though most are not. I would say they are solid 7a in the SEUSA, however. I never had damage in low single digits...they even overwintered in frozen pots standing in frozen water! That said, I never have had one survive in St Louis MO very long whereas R. hystrix has endured to -15F (though it looks really bad after that freeze).

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