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Most Northerly area of Florida Considered Zone 10b,10a, and 9b


Alicehunter2000

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Those are a bit trickier since I do not know the areas as well, but I'll give it a good shot.

Brevard County, Fl

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How about a close-up of Manatee and Sarasota counties?

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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sure, I know those areas a little bit better. But you know them better than I do, so you can critique me.

Brevard County, Fl

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It is tough to do Palm Beach County, because I am never sure how to handle the presence of Lake Okeechobee. Especially because it does not tend to be on the maps that I choose when making these zone maps. Jim, I especially like your version of Collier County. In reality, the Fakahatchee is likely very low end 10a overall but being a swamp and so far south it has many large microclimates. This is evidenced by the native royals (which are rarely damaged) as well as the numerous species of tropical epiphytic orchids and bromeliads. I have seen photos or palm and orchid damage from 2010, but I think most everything recovered. Marco Island feels every bit as tropical as Miami Beach, but I imagine it tends to be slightly lower on both average winter temps and during extreme cold events due to differences in the Gulf versus the Atlantic near the Gulf Stream.

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Here is Volusia county How about a blowup of Volusia ?

I think your map is pretty good for the East Volusia area except that the area between the west bank of the Halifax ( ICW )

and US1 is as warm as much of the Beachside due to its greater exposure to the winds. The area that I referred to is mostly

an Oak canopy , and the first ridge from the ICW also helps to contain the cold air drainage in from the hinterlands.

I live atop that ridge , and the difference from US1 westward is quite noticeable.

Further west , Derbyshire Rd is another line of demarcation. It is a ridge also .

One other Volusia thing... The area south of Lake George near Pierson ( your 9B ) , may receive a lake effect warming , but I've

cruised the area in the past looking for evidence , and haven't found it yet . That's a big lake and swampy around , but not enough

yards to make a judgement .

I have been a Palm guy in this area for well over 50 years . There are WAY more Royals here than ever. Not common , but here.

This is the longest non killing spell here that I have experienced . Coconuts have never survived here , even though occasionally

a few will reach about 15' or so to the top of the fronds . We have quite cold days here in Jan/early Feb , and the vigor is sapped from

them . Many days the Official high temp at the airport is 10-12 deg higher than the Beachside and out to US 1 .

Good job !

map1.gif

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How about a blowup of Volusia ?

I think your map is pretty good for the East Volusia area except that the area between the west bank of the Halifax ( ICW )

and US1 is as warm as much of the Beachside due to its greater exposure to the winds.

I live atop that ridge , and the difference from US1 westward is quite noticeable.

Further west , Derbyshire Rd is another line of demarcation. It is a ridge also .

One other Volusia thing... The area south of Lake George near Pierson ( your 9B ) , may receive a lake effect warming , but I've

cruised the area in the past looking for evidence , and haven't found it yet . That's a big lake and swampy around , but not enough

yards to make a judgement .

you are right about 9B extending west along US1 up to about Ormond Beach, when I was drawing that map, I thought that is what I was doing, except it shows US1 misrepresented further inland, and part of it was my fault as well. On that note, I will redo Volusia county.

Lake George is big enough to have an influence, although you are right about a lack of indication, so it is a bit of a speculation. I am willing to bet that it is warmer though.

Brevard County, Fl

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Today I had to drive over (about five road miles from my house) to the gated community of Lake June Pointe, located on the east shore of Lake June (3,405 acre lake). My elderly parents as well as several friends of mine live there. For all intents and purposes this community is zone 10b. Many homes have fruiting coconut palms, but far more homes have foxtail palms, followed by royal palms. Below are a few photos I snapped from my car window (or through the windshield). These photos are representative of what's there, so I didn't bother to shoot anymore, as it would just be redundant.

Next time I'm out and about (which is rare for me) I will try and get some more lakeside (or near lakeside) photos.

One of my best friends who lives in this community, but across the street from the lake, has lived there for close to 10 years. He told me it's never been below 32 degrees at his place, even in 2010 when I set my all-time low temperature record of 20.8 degrees. Typically, my buddy's yard runs 10-14 degree warmer than at my place on radiational cooling nights. The spread is greatest in early winter when the lake water is warmer. At the end of winter the spread is less, but still signifigant. My buddy and his wife moved up here from Ft. Lauderdale, where they had lived since 1961, and he attests that the lake definitely influences the climate, making it more like south Florida.

LJPcoconuts2_zpsb07d3169.jpg

LJProyalpalms_zps4cd2aaaf.jpg

LJPcoconuts_zps32df1b7b.jpg

Edited by Walt

Mad about palms

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Walt, don't make me do one of Highlands county :)

Edited by Jimbean

Brevard County, Fl

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The areas not outlined, that is between the yellow and pink lines is warm 9A

Brevard County, Fl

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Jim,

If I were making a color coded zone map of Highlands County, I would use a topo map (I think you can find a website that gives topos for the entire US. I know somebody years ago posted a link to it) and make all land areas on the Lake Wales Ridge (areas above 100 feet above sea level) zone 10a.

I submit that the town of Avon Park, historic part of Sebring (east of Lake Jackson), and Lake Placid are warm 10a. I know that from what I find growing there. I've traversed up and down streets looking for indicator palms and plants (and mainly noting the age/size of them). I know where there's a nice clump of veitchia palms growing in Sebring, and that's indicator enough for me.

Outlying areas off the ridge and below 100 feet elevation I would make 9b, and the lower the elevation the colder part of 9b. Also, some very low lying areas, are 9a (and even 8b at times, like the area around Archbold Biological Station). I rate my property a cold 9b (even though I didn't go below 30 the past two winters), and I'm at 83 feet above sea level, whereas up the hill in town is around 150 feet ASL. I've noted on my coldest mornings when temps go below 30 degrees, my pothos vines growing up trees start to damage, this damage stops around 15-18 feet above the ground, when my open yard temperatures would fall to the mid to low 20s. That tells me basically where the 30 degree line is in the air stratification -- and why I don't find damage up in town.

As for around the lakes, I would say, based on my observations over the 17 years I've lived in Highlands County, that around the larger lakes, the entire shoreline and extending out 300-500 feet ranges from zone 10b down through 10a. But the S.E. side of all lakes are the warmest under any given condition (advective or radiational cold events), as invariably, the coldest air always comes from the N.W., so the air gets moderated as it flows across and above the lake. If you look at the Lake Okeechobee temperature graphic I posted earlier in this thread, you can see how the area S.E. of the lake extends the warmer air farther.

If you go on Google, there is a small lake called Lake Blue, in Lake Blue Estates, very close to me. I submit it's a solid zone 10 all around it. There's coconut palms growing in yards surrounding it. I guess what I'm saying that around almost any lake more than a few acres in size, it's zone 10 within 50 feet of the shore line. But the larger the lake the farther out it's heating effect.

Lastly, 95% of my coldest weather has been from radiational cooling, not advective.

One day if I get a program where I can make a zone map, I will do so. I have a master gardener friend (in fact, she's the president of the master gardeners at our county extension office) that is a computer software wizard. She lives just two blocks from me. Perhaps I will get her to help me with a map. I think a zone map would be beneficial to the master gardeners.

As a master gardener myself (albeit one of the least knowledgeable), I oft times get snow birds or new residents coming down from the northern states, and they ask me what palms and plants they can grow in Highlands County. My pat answer is similar to the real estate axiom (in terms of how much a given property is worth on the market): Location, Location, Location. I then explain the lake effect and high ground (warmer at night).

I like your maps, BTW.

Mad about palms

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I have driven around your area a couple of times. I have never seen any indication of anything warmer than zone 10A by my definition, or in other words, if another 1989 like event happened again, what will survive? I saw what I believe where pre-89 royals, but with much freeze damage, but from the look of the area, I do not expect coconuts to survive (I could be wrong though). The warmer areas that are situated between the larger lakes indicate a temperature zone similar to what I have found in areas that are typical in warm 9B/cold 10A, such as Sarasota.

Unfortunately the only way to really be able to identify zones in Highlands county is to wait for major freezing events and simply observe what survives long term and what does not at any location. I have a good idea, but without a high degree of confidence, as that area requires more attention and observation than practically any where else in Florida.

Brevard County, Fl

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I have driven around your area a couple of times. I have never seen any indication of anything warmer than zone 10A by my definition, or in other words, if another 1989 like event happened again, what will survive? I saw what I believe where pre-89 royals, but with much freeze damage, but from the look of the area, I do not expect coconuts to survive (I could be wrong though). The warmer areas that are situated between the larger lakes indicate a temperature zone similar to what I have found in areas that are typical in warm 9B/cold 10A, such as Sarasota.

Unfortunately the only way to really be able to identify zones in Highlands county is to wait for major freezing events and simply observe what survives long term and what does not at any location. I have a good idea, but without a high degree of confidence, as that area requires more attention and observation than practically any where else in Florida.

My buddy who lives 300-500 feet from the east shore of Lake June was the chief engineer at an instrument calibration laboratory in Miami (he lived in Ft. Lauderdale). He has a weather station at his house. He and I have been comparing nighttime low temperatures for almost 10 years now. The lowest he's ever recorded was 32 degrees (only one time). Many winters he never drops below 40 degrees, let alone 35 degrees. Therefore I deem his climate is zone 10b most years. I feel relatively comfortable in saying many other lakeside locations are mostly 10b on average and above average winters. But in the grand scheme of things (considering the total square miles of Highlands County), the lake front areas probably don't add up to more than one percent of the county area -- if that.

Just off the top of my head, maybe another five percent of Highlands County (at elevated areas on the Lake Wales Ridge and nearer the lakes, and in the downtown areas of Avon Park, Sebring, and Lake Placid) are zone 10a. As for the balance of the county, it is mostly 9b, but with many areas that are 9a.

At the southeast end of Lake Clay (about one mile from me) are lots of tall royal palms and huge banyan trees (both Ficus benghalensis and Ficus microcarpa) that were planted in the 1950s. I talked to the owner of these palms, who is about 70 years old. He told me his father planted all this stuff back in the 1950s. These royals survived the '89 freeze, but they got toasted (fronds). I wish Bob Riffle were still alive, as he went with me to see all these palms and banyans (plus other tropical stuff) back in 2003, and Bob told me he thought it was zone 10b around this lake.

If you go to Google Map and type in Lake Placid Florida, D Place (it's off Rt. 621), you might be able to see these palms. If you go down the street to Lake Clay Drive, you should be able to see some of the banyan trees. I will have to go to Google and look for myself. I will take photos of these palms and trees the next time I go out and post them here.

Mad about palms

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I forgot to say, the Sebring FAWN weather station is located on Rt. 17, about one mile south of US 98. It's not in Sebring, but about five miles S.E. of Sebring out in the boondocks. The station is at 118 feet elevation above sea level. I think it's about 8 miles as the crow flies northeast of my location.

I went to the FAWN website and used their report generator feature to find the low temperatures for the winters of 2012-13 and 2013-14, as shown below:

December 19th 2013: 46.62 degrees

January 19th 2014: 33.67

February 14th 2014: 41.78

December 30th 2012: 40.33

January 24th 2013: 42.13

February 18th 2013: 35.15

My low was 32 degrees for 2012-13 winter and 30 degrees (twice) for 2013-14 winter. I almost always run colder, usually 3-5 degrees than the Sebring FAWN site. So by FAWN's records, that site had a 10b winter in 2012-13. Note: readings were taken at 2 meters above ground at FAWN.

Mad about palms

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Well despite the ''cold'' you still get 4 indigenous palms there and nice Sarracenias on the Costa Sarracenia. In the whole of Europe we get only 2 palms, well 3 if you include the Canary Islands and no Sarracenias.

Cheers,

Alexander

Edited by Explorer
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I explored a good bit of the Yellow area near Lake George today . I did the Volusia side , going down

Shell Harbor Rd out of the town of Pierson

It is quite rural , with scattered homes , and a couple of canal/cuts , and quite wooded.

The landscaping is very low key , and so I saw no " indicator " plants , other than a few Monsteras

and other normal Florida plants.

A very few Queens , Butias ,two Roebellinis , and very few other ornamentals over all.

As Google map street view shows , it is fairly deciduous and loses a good bit of canopy

help in winter . Elevations are 4 to about 8 ft above sea level.

There's a few scattered lots and or houses for sale .

At some time I will do the Lake County side of the general area ( off of SR40 ) as there are some

semi subdivs there , and weekend enclaves for St Johns boaty types . May be more indicators there .

f3258.gif

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it's a hunch that I'd be willing to bet on. If I had the time, I would plant a sensitive 9B plant up there and see what happens.

Brevard County, Fl

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I have driven around your area a couple of times. I have never seen any indication of anything warmer than zone 10A by my definition, or in other words, if another 1989 like event happened again, what will survive? I saw what I believe where pre-89 royals, but with much freeze damage, but from the look of the area, I do not expect coconuts to survive (I could be wrong though). The warmer areas that are situated between the larger lakes indicate a temperature zone similar to what I have found in areas that are typical in warm 9B/cold 10A, such as Sarasota.

Unfortunately the only way to really be able to identify zones in Highlands county is to wait for major freezing events and simply observe what survives long term and what does not at any location. I have a good idea, but without a high degree of confidence, as that area requires more attention and observation than practically any where else in Florida.

My buddy who lives 300-500 feet from the east shore of Lake June was the chief engineer at an instrument calibration laboratory in Miami (he lived in Ft. Lauderdale). He has a weather station at his house. He and I have been comparing nighttime low temperatures for almost 10 years now. The lowest he's ever recorded was 32 degrees (only one time). Many winters he never drops below 40 degrees, let alone 35 degrees. Therefore I deem his climate is zone 10b most years. I feel relatively comfortable in saying many other lakeside locations are mostly 10b on average and above average winters. But in the grand scheme of things (considering the total square miles of Highlands County), the lake front areas probably don't add up to more than one percent of the county area -- if that.

Just off the top of my head, maybe another five percent of Highlands County (at elevated areas on the Lake Wales Ridge and nearer the lakes, and in the downtown areas of Avon Park, Sebring, and Lake Placid) are zone 10a. As for the balance of the county, it is mostly 9b, but with many areas that are 9a.

At the southeast end of Lake Clay (about one mile from me) are lots of tall royal palms and huge banyan trees (both Ficus benghalensis and Ficus microcarpa) that were planted in the 1950s. I talked to the owner of these palms, who is about 70 years old. He told me his father planted all this stuff back in the 1950s. These royals survived the '89 freeze, but they got toasted (fronds). I wish Bob Riffle were still alive, as he went with me to see all these palms and banyans (plus other tropical stuff) back in 2003, and Bob told me he thought it was zone 10b around this lake.

If you go to Google Map and type in Lake Placid Florida, D Place (it's off Rt. 621), you might be able to see these palms. If you go down the street to Lake Clay Drive, you should be able to see some of the banyan trees. I will have to go to Google and look for myself. I will take photos of these palms and trees the next time I go out and post them here.

I don't think we have the same definitions of zones.

Brevard County, Fl

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  • 2 months later...

I highly doubt there are any pre-89 coconut palms north of Jupiter Inlet.

On the barrier island starting at Vero going down there are some survivors, I'm not sure if any exist across the bridge. I talked to my neighbor who's lived in Vero since the 70's. He pointed out several growing along the southern section of Vero on the barrier island. He pointed out one in front of my house that survived, I live right on the river. Here's the picture, it's massive the photo doesn't do it justice. Especially with my horrible camera.

post-10561-0-56121600-1410795784_thumb.j

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post-10561-0-50428300-1410795795_thumb.j

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  • 4 weeks later...

Here's a "coconut " report for South Sarasota County, FL. The City of Venice has landscaped Maxine Barrett park with coconut palms and they are doing well. Driving South from Sarasota on 41, you will notice plenty of fruit bearing coconut palms planted in businesses along Rt.41 in Nokomis. Bird Bay Plaza in Venice is landscaped with large healthy coconuts palms and the coconuts planted in front of Venice Hospital are doing well. There are some a few healthy looking coconuts east of 41 on private properties within 3 miles of the Gulf, none as far east as River Road. Casey Key has similar tropical vegetation as Jupiter Island on the East Coast as does Manasota Key, south of Venice. Northport, which is 10 miles inland, has few if any coconuts but a few royals grow there. I have noticed an increased in the amount of coconut palms in Venice over the past 10 years but the area lost about 25% of them during the Winter of 2010. Some of those trees would have survived if the property owners gave them a chance to grow back. The lower fonds of coconuts do get brown during most winters but they look great most of the year, I would consider Venice, west of 41 as a 10b, 41 business to Jacaranda Drive, 10a, and areas east of Jacaranda 9b, Any comments?

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On the east side, I'd say the region where I'd consider coconuts a reliable grow, would be the Sebastian area south. Most of these were taken in southern vero, but the disney resort is by Wabasso and has some healthy cocos

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post-10561-0-65514900-1413013003_thumb.j this one is massive, too bad I have nothing for scale

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I've even seen nice looking coconuts as far as cocoa beach.

post-10561-0-56742900-1413012985_thumb.j

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why don't some of you all make your own zone maps and then post them here.

Here is my version. I am more confident in the zone boundaries of 9a-11b than those of zone 8, but zone 8 should be fairly close to reality. I included a few known local climate anomalies on the map, such as Orlando, Archbold Biological Station and Lake Placid/Lake Istokpoga. Regarding zone 11, I am almost certain Miami Beach and adjacent barrier islands should be included since Miami itself averages upper 30s for lows on an annual basis.

Note, the image thumbnail is distorted for some reason, you can view it intact by clicking on it to enlarge.

I think your map is good but I would make two small changes to the map. I would put a small portion of Highlands County near Lake Placid as a 10a, since that area is a consistent micro climate loaded with tropical vegetation. I would also make the barrier islands off Sarasota, 10A's. There is no way St Armonds is a 9B. Most of the tropical vegetation on St. Armond's, Siesta, Casey and Longboat Key survived the 2010 cold spell.

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My property is located on Lake Dora, 5000 acre lake and part of the Harris Chain of Lakes (approx. 37,000 acres of Lakes), Lake County . I believe that I am in a very warm 9B/10A microclimate. For me, the winter wind direction, (west, northwest. north) will determine how well I fair through a cold snap.

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post-3923-0-59912900-1413396567_thumb.jp

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That is a beautiful part of Florida. Elevation and lakes both help your microclimate. You might even try some

Beccariophoenix for a real tropical look.

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When we talk about USDA cold hardiness zone, we all pretty much know that a zone 10a in Florida is different than a California zone 10a. But even in Florida (and probably California, too) a zone 10a varies significantly. For this posting, I'm using a zone 10a, because a coconut palm can survive quite well here in Florida. Further, most zone 10a locations only get one or two nights each winter below the zone 10b threshold.

I submit there are at least three types of zone 10a in Florida as follows.

Type 1 is what I call a "true" 10a. That is, this would be an inland area on low ground and with no major thermal influence of a body of water (such as the Atlantic ocean, Gulf of Mexico, or a large lake, river, etc.) These areas, because they are inland, will typically run hotter during the day (and heat makes palms grow at a faster rate) than a 10a water influenced zone. These "true" 10a areas are due to a more southerly latitude; hence, more daytime solar radiation.

Type 2 would be a water influenced 10a. The surrounding area is most likely 9b, but the locations within the overall 9b area are 10a because the thermal capacity of the water holds up nighttime temperatures to above 30 degrees, whereas areas farther from the water the nighttime low temperature might drop to 25 degrees. These 10a areas typically don't have as high daytime temperatures as a true inland area 10a (which lie much farther south in latitude). Further, when the winter wind comes off the water, these areas can run (and I've seen it) 8-10 degrees colder during the day than the inland 10a areas.

Type 3 would be elevation influenced 10a. I can only speak to my area at the lower end of the Lake Wales Ridge here in south central Florida. These areas at higher elevations get the nighttime benefit of air inversion, and lie in the warmer strata of air. I am talking relative elevation here. The ridge areas maybe run an average of 150 feet higher than the surrounding area. But this elevation difference can mean 7-10 degrees warmer on radiational cooling nights (and radiational cooling nights comprise about 95% of the coldest nights in Florida). These areas, because they are inland, typically run as hot as areas at lower elevation, as 150 difference in elevation during the day is insignificant. It's at night (cold winter nights) when the difference becomes significant.

The months of January 2010, and again in December of 2010, there were prolonged periods of unusual cold here in Florida. December of 2010 had the longest running cold period, with 11 straight days of nights (in my area) below 40 degrees. Five of those nights were below 30 degrees at my place. In fact, I read that Florida and Georgia set records for the lowest December average temperature.

After the December cold period I traversed all through my county (Highlands County), check on coconut palms to see how they fared. All lakeside (or near lakeside) coconut palms suffered cold damage. Many palms died. But to my surprise, I found that the coconut palms on the highest ground (in downtown Lake Placid) actually of fared better than the ones lakeside. I can only conclude that due to the 11 straight days of cold, the lake waters cooled down substantially to where they didn't offer the thermal influence. But high ground locations still got the benefit of air inversion, where the warm air rises and cold air sinks. No coconuts at elevation were killed compared to lakeside where maybe 10-20% were killed.

One last thought. The cold of December 2010 was radiational cooling every night. What the results would be if the cold had been advective might be different. In that case, maybe the lakeside coconuts might fare better than high ground coconuts, as the air would be more homogenized.

Mad about palms

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I would submit that Southern Sarasota County east of the Intracoastal for about 5-7 miles would fall into the Type 2 10a. Barrier Islands in Southern Sarasota County including Venice Island would fall into the 10b zone.

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Re: I would submit that Southern Sarasota County east of the Intracoastal for about 5-7 miles would fall into the Type 2 10a. Barrier Islands in Southern Sarasota County including Venice Island would fall into the 10b zone.

I would agree with that. The Type 2 10a would certainly extend farther east (inland) than say a Type 2 10a north of Tampa Bay, Tarpon Springs, etc.

No doubt the barrier islands of southern Sarasota County are zone 10b+ for all intents and purposes. The heat capacity of the Gulf definitely moderates the cold nighttime air.

Mad about palms

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I am originally from south Louisiana but in the past 36 years I have lived in the following cities in Florida -Fort Lauderdale, Deerfield Beach, Boca Raton, Key West, Big Pine Key, Tampa, Orlando, Winter Haven and Bokeelia on Pine Island. If all time recorded minimum temperature is the primary objective, my acre on Big Pine Key has a minimum of 41 so temperature wise you can grow any palm there however if you dig down a few inches you hit solid limestone. That is why I chose my 5 acres in Bokeelia on Pine Island with deep soil as the place I wish to grow palms and other ornamentals not to mention the extra 13 inches of rain annually. Like Anna Marie Island it has water around it to moderate the minimum temperature only its record is atleast 7 degrees warmer. In my opinion, the northern half of Pine Island is the best place in Florida to grow palm trees and tropical ornamentals.

Edited by IslandPalms
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I would like to restate my assertion that Metro Orlando is now a zone 10a due to the urban heat island that is ever-expanding. I am in the northern suburbs, and my 10a palms all survived the 2010 freezes (a really bad year, but with the modern expanded heat island keeping up the absolute extreme lows). Besides, the averages in town during the past ~20 years support a cool 10a climate here in Orlando. I wouldn't expect massive numbers of large and really healthy Cocos in a cool 10a zone.

Cocos should be considered a 10b indicator palm in my opinion. Yes, they can survive and look well in most 10a FL climates most of the time, but the rating I have always seen assigned to Cocos in literature is 10b. They might tend to look less well in 10a Orlando, because of the lower average temps than other 10a areas in FL, but I would bet you if Cocos were planted as relatively large landscape palms en masse in the Orlando area (as in, say, Miami), most would survive for a number of years (or many years in certain cases) and look okay to decent overall (but not great). I have 10 in the ground here in Winter Park now, so I guess my challenge is to have them gain some substantial size over the next several years, then see how they do in our anthropogenically engineered climate near a large city. I'm hoping for a few mild winters.

As a side note, we recently had the pleasure of vacationing in Marco Island. It was great with tons of beautiful palms and was very clean. The overall feel was not quite as tropical as Ft. Lauderdale/Miami, but close.

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palmsOrl: I concur with your assertion. A metro area the size of Orlando with all it's heat sinking concrete and asphalt roadways, concrete buildings, heat generating vehicles, buildings, homes, etc., most definitely are going to influence (store and give off heat so as to modify ambient air temperature) during winter time nights and early mornings. Plus, being inland, daytime highs would tend to run a little warmer than coastal areas at the same latitude (depending on wind direction. If wind is coming off the water it will be cooler along the coast.)

Cocos nucifera is a 10b rated palm by every book source I have. But I assert that the type 1 zone 10a is 10b 99% of the time. It's probably only that one day each winter where the low might dip below 35 degrees (the bottom threshold of zone 10b). And the Type 1 10a has great day time heat. Its the Type 2 10a that would tend to have less overall heat, due to cooler day time temperatures due mainly to proximity of cool water (winter time) and to a lesser extent, a more northerly latitude. On the other hand, this same Type 2 location will probably have more nighttime heat during the summer months (than inland Type 1 10a locations) when nighttime temperatures are held up due to the Gulf/ocean water being so warm.

One thing of note, I have a buddy who lives on the east side of Lake June (3,405 acres in area) in a lake front community, just west of downtown Lake Placid, Florida. There are lots of mature fruiting coconut palms growing in his community. The nighttime temperatures in his community (during the coldest winter nights) are almost always higher than at Homestead, Florida. This surely has to be due to the lake heating effect. However, Homestead, being inland and more southerly in latitude normally has higher daytime temperatures.

The bottom line as I see it, coconut palms will survive in any zone 10a (Types 1, 2, 3) Florida climate, at least until we get a killer freeze like in December of 1989 or a prolonged cold event such as we had in January of 2010 and again in December of 2010 (which was worse than the proceeding January, at least in my location). While coconut palms may not look their best in the marginal zone 10a areas, they will survive decently.

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Mad about palms

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I would like to restate my assertion that Metro Orlando is now a zone 10a due to the urban heat island that is ever-expanding. I am in the northern suburbs, and my 10a palms all survived the 2010 freezes (a really bad year, but with the modern expanded heat island keeping up the absolute extreme lows). Besides, the averages in town during the past ~20 years support a cool 10a climate here in Orlando. I wouldn't expect massive numbers of large and really healthy Cocos in a cool 10a zone.

Cocos should be considered a 10b indicator palm in my opinion. Yes, they can survive and look well in most 10a FL climates most of the time, but the rating I have always seen assigned to Cocos in literature is 10b. They might tend to look less well in 10a Orlando, because of the lower average temps than other 10a areas in FL, but I would bet you if Cocos were planted as relatively large landscape palms en masse in the Orlando area (as in, say, Miami), most would survive for a number of years (or many years in certain cases) and look okay to decent overall (but not great). I have 10 in the ground here in Winter Park now, so I guess my challenge is to have them gain some substantial size over the next several years, then see how they do in our anthropogenically engineered climate near a large city. I'm hoping for a few mild winters.

As a side note, we recently had the pleasure of vacationing in Marco Island. It was great with tons of beautiful palms and was very clean. The overall feel was not quite as tropical as Ft. Lauderdale/Miami, but close.

There are 9B coconuts all over where I live, many of which are over 15 foot tall with coconuts.

Brevard County, Fl

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