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Alicehunter2000

Most Northerly area of Florida Considered Zone 10b,10a, and 9b

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Bill H2DB

Here's another decent map from a quite useful book.( Shows how many times in a 20 yr period that the Temp. dropped below 32 deg.)14129959554_667be80170_b.jpg

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Jimbean

interesting

it looks very approximate

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Alicehunter2000

What specific parts of Florida would be the most northerly one could reliably find Zone 9b plants, 10a plants and 10b plants. Please include any islands that are accessible by car and might have land for sale. I have often wondered how far down the Gulf Coast I would have to travel to get to areas where palms that I can't grow here might survive. Would Cedar Key be Zone 9b? How about St. George Island up in the Big Bend area? Any photo's of some of these more obscure locations?

Let me see if I can answer your question.

On the East coast, I have found 9B plants all the way up to Savanna Georgia, but long term probably Jacksonville beach in an area that is warm enough. Otherwise Daytona Beach.

As for 10A, I have seen it as far north as Daytona Beach, but long term Cape Canaveral. Obviously also around the St-Petersberg/Clearwater area

10B as far as Daytona Beach, but long term probably Jupiter, possibly in warmer pockets of South Hutchinson Island or Patrick Air Force Base.

West Coast St. Petersberg, but probably Cayo Costa Key long term.

Cedar Key is zone 9A by my definition. It might be warm enough to grow queen palms long term there, probably not though.

Jim....the immediate Gulf coastal area up here in the Panhandle is considered 9a. Even this brutal winter which was the worst in 25 years, "only" saw 20 degrees F. as the low (the bottom of 9a) along the coast. Queens are not a true 9a palm IMO....all my Bizmarkia's did better than the queens around here.

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Jimbean

The coastal bend is colder, the water is cooler and more shallow. Historically the Gulf coast north of Tampa Bay area has seen temperatures in the teens.

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Jimbean

What specific parts of Florida would be the most northerly one could reliably find Zone 9b plants, 10a plants and 10b plants. Please include any islands that are accessible by car and might have land for sale. I have often wondered how far down the Gulf Coast I would have to travel to get to areas where palms that I can't grow here might survive. Would Cedar Key be Zone 9b? How about St. George Island up in the Big Bend area? Any photo's of some of these more obscure locations?

Let me see if I can answer your question.

On the East coast, I have found 9B plants all the way up to Savanna Georgia, but long term probably Jacksonville beach in an area that is warm enough. Otherwise Daytona Beach.

As for 10A, I have seen it as far north as Daytona Beach, but long term Cape Canaveral. Obviously also around the St-Petersberg/Clearwater area

10B as far as Daytona Beach, but long term probably Jupiter, possibly in warmer pockets of South Hutchinson Island or Patrick Air Force Base.

West Coast St. Petersberg, but probably Cayo Costa Key long term.

Cedar Key is zone 9A by my definition. It might be warm enough to grow queen palms long term there, probably not though.

Jim....the immediate Gulf coastal area up here in the Panhandle is considered 9a. Even this brutal winter which was the worst in 25 years, "only" saw 20 degrees F. as the low (the bottom of 9a) along the coast. Queens are not a true 9a palm IMO....all my Bizmarkia's did better than the queens around here.

And yes, I also consider queens to be a 9B palm, I am assuming zone pushing when I am saying that they might survive on Cedar Key.

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sonoranfans

What specific parts of Florida would be the most northerly one could reliably find Zone 9b plants, 10a plants and 10b plants. Please include any islands that are accessible by car and might have land for sale. I have often wondered how far down the Gulf Coast I would have to travel to get to areas where palms that I can't grow here might survive. Would Cedar Key be Zone 9b? How about St. George Island up in the Big Bend area? Any photo's of some of these more obscure locations?

Let me see if I can answer your question.

On the East coast, I have found 9B plants all the way up to Savanna Georgia, but long term probably Jacksonville beach in an area that is warm enough. Otherwise Daytona Beach.

As for 10A, I have seen it as far north as Daytona Beach, but long term Cape Canaveral. Obviously also around the St-Petersberg/Clearwater area

10B as far as Daytona Beach, but long term probably Jupiter, possibly in warmer pockets of South Hutchinson Island or Patrick Air Force Base.

West Coast St. Petersberg, but probably Cayo Costa Key long term.

Cedar Key is zone 9A by my definition. It might be warm enough to grow queen palms long term there, probably not though.

Jim....the immediate Gulf coastal area up here in the Panhandle is considered 9a. Even this brutal winter which was the worst in 25 years, "only" saw 20 degrees F. as the low (the bottom of 9a) along the coast. Queens are not a true 9a palm IMO....all my Bizmarkia's did better than the queens around here.

And yes, I also consider queens to be a 9B palm, I am assuming zone pushing when I am saying that they might survive on Cedar Key.

I don't know about queens being assumed to be a zone 9B palm. I dont hink you will find any palm literature saying queens are 9B palms. the lowest winter temp in 9B is 25F, queens are good well below that. I have had 9 queens survive 22F(all of them, none died) and come back strong. this would say they are a moderate 9A palm. the coldest 9A environs will kill queens, but the zone is grouped by minimum temps, and 20-25F is 9A, 25-30F is 9B.

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empireo22

I have seen a ratty looking queen in Savannah area. They might even be able to survive in the outer banks area microclimate. But for sure, to have healthy looking queen all year a 9b climate is more appropriate. So in someway they are a 9b palm that lives in 9a. kind of like a coconut is a 10b palm that lives in 10a?

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Jimbean

Yes. As a rule of thumb, you can push a plant by a zone and it will still fair okay most of the time. So, royals will do well in 9B short term, queens in 9A short term, etc.

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palmsOrl

I have seen a ratty looking queen in Savannah area. They might even be able to survive in the outer banks area microclimate. But for sure, to have healthy looking queen all year a 9b climate is more appropriate. So in someway they are a 9b palm that lives in 9a. kind of like a coconut is a 10b palm that lives in 10a?

I agree with this. Coconuts are not at all uncommon in most true FL zone 10a climates, except those that are relatively recent in origin due to the influences of human civilization. Cocos is definitely a zone 10b palm for complete long term reliability. For example, Fort Myers (zone 10a) has been as low as 24F, a temp which would kill virtually every Cocos in the city, even in favorable microclimates.

Regarding queen palms, I would also say this species is generally a zone 9b palm, which can be grown with some success in 9a (and shorter term with yearly damage in some warm 8b areas). It wouldn't surprise me if a large, initially healthy (well cared for, etc.) queen palm could survive a few consecutive mild winters on the barrier islands of the NC Outer Banks with some yearly burn/foliage damage from cold winds and overall chilly temps.

I would say, with palms at least, you can generally push by 1/2 zone with some degree of success.

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Jimbean

I have seen a ratty looking queen in Savannah area. They might even be able to survive in the outer banks area microclimate. But for sure, to have healthy looking queen all year a 9b climate is more appropriate. So in someway they are a 9b palm that lives in 9a. kind of like a coconut is a 10b palm that lives in 10a?

I agree with this. Coconuts are not at all uncommon in most true FL zone 10a climates, except those that are relatively recent in origin due to the influences of human civilization. Cocos is definitely a zone 10b palm for complete long term reliability. For example, Fort Myers (zone 10a) has been as low as 24F, a temp which would kill virtually every Cocos in the city, even in favorable microclimates.

Regarding queen palms, I would also say this species is generally a zone 9b palm, which can be grown with some success in 9a (and shorter term with yearly damage in some warm 8b areas). It wouldn't surprise me if a large, initially healthy (well cared for, etc.) queen palm could survive a few consecutive mild winters on the barrier islands of the NC Outer Banks with some yearly burn/foliage damage from cold winds and overall chilly temps.

I would say, with palms at least, you can generally push by 1/2 zone with some degree of success.

that is basically what I just got done saying :winkie:

Edited by Jimbean

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Jimbean

How I understand it, it is this:

A queen palm can survive to 23F without damage, but 17F can kill it, which means that it is hardy down to the 25F increment (9B being between 25F to 30F), so it is hardy in zone 9B. It can theoretically survive in zone 9A down to the 20F increment, but it will not survive down to the 15F increment. So, assuming that minimum temperatures do not go below the average minimum annual temperature for any local area, that the system holds; for course it does not, which prompted me to do my own map.

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palmsOrl

I have seen a ratty looking queen in Savannah area. They might even be able to survive in the outer banks area microclimate. But for sure, to have healthy looking queen all year a 9b climate is more appropriate. So in someway they are a 9b palm that lives in 9a. kind of like a coconut is a 10b palm that lives in 10a?

I agree with this. Coconuts are not at all uncommon in most true FL zone 10a climates, except those that are relatively recent in origin due to the influences of human civilization. Cocos is definitely a zone 10b palm for complete long term reliability. For example, Fort Myers (zone 10a) has been as low as 24F, a temp which would kill virtually every Cocos in the city, even in favorable microclimates.

Regarding queen palms, I would also say this species is generally a zone 9b palm, which can be grown with some success in 9a (and shorter term with yearly damage in some warm 8b areas). It wouldn't surprise me if a large, initially healthy (well cared for, etc.) queen palm could survive a few consecutive mild winters on the barrier islands of the NC Outer Banks with some yearly burn/foliage damage from cold winds and overall chilly temps.

I would say, with palms at least, you can generally push by 1/2 zone with some degree of success.

that is basically what I just got done saying :winkie:

Sorry to be redundant Jim! :interesting: The only difference is I said palms tend to be able to be grown with a lot of success up to 1/2 zone colder than rated. You may get a palm to grow a full zone colder for a fairly short period, but it won't be long term without substantial protection.

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edbrown_III

Dern!--- like I said earlier theyre sure are lots of queens palms and P. robellinnii --- I reckon this makes me zone 9B

I can't tell you how happy about being wrong about this!

Best regards

Ed

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Jimbean

Jacksonville is 9A/8B long term. You can grow 9B short term, but with record low of 7F, or even with the added heat island effect you are still looking at 8F to about 10F, 9B plants will all be killed. The only exception to this is maybe the beach if the plants are hardy enough, but I frankly doubt it.

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Cocoa Beach Jason

Here's another decent map from a quite useful book.( Shows how many times in a 20 yr period that the Temp. dropped below 32 deg.)14129959554_667be80170_b.jpg

The problem with that zone map is it doesn't attempt to show the warmer microclimates of the barrier islands. Coastal central Florida is not the same as Orlando. East of US-1 from Cape Canaveral on down is a solid 10-A and borderline 10-B.

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Jimbean

East of US-1 from Cape Canaveral on down is a solid 10-A and borderline 10-B.

Any how many coconut palms survived on US-1 between cocoa and Melbourne after the 2011 freeze?

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Jimbean

I just did a quick count in my head, and there are maybe five survivors between 520 and Pineda

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edbrown_III

Jacksonville is 9A/8B long term. You can grow 9B short term, but with record low of 7F, or even with the added heat island effect you are still looking at 8F to about 10F, 9B plants will all be killed. The only exception to this is maybe the beach if the plants are hardy enough, but I frankly doubt it.

Darn! looks Like I gotta chain saw a whole bunch of palms that shouuldnt be here ---some of them are 25 years old and very tall.

Best regards

Ed

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Jimbean

or just wait for another 1989 like event :winkie:

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Xenon

or just wait for another 1989 like event :winkie:

How would you classify these Texas cities?

Galveston (record low of 7F)

Brownsville (record low of 12F)

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sonoranfans

Jacksonville is 9A/8B long term. You can grow 9B short term, but with record low of 7F, or even with the added heat island effect you are still looking at 8F to about 10F, 9B plants will all be killed. The only exception to this is maybe the beach if the plants are hardy enough, but I frankly doubt it.

Darn! looks Like I gotta chain saw a whole bunch of palms that shouuldnt be here ---some of them are 25 years old and very tall.

Best regards

Ed

Gee Ed, 25 years old, that is "short term".... LOL! I wonder how long queens live.... I'll take the 25 years and let the chicken littles worry about another 30 year cold snap...

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sonoranfans

or just wait for another 1989 like event :winkie:

How would you classify these Texas cities?

Galveston (record low of 7F)

Brownsville (record low of 12F)

Largo, Florida has a record low of 19F, guess they shouldnt grow foxtails or royals there.... But I saw lots of great looking public plantings of foxtails and royals in largo, fantastic and spectacular palms with royals topping at about 60 feet.... but if they saw another 19F freeze they could die.... OR you can enjoy growing these beautiful palms and await climate changing to warmer temps!

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empireo22

East of US-1 from Cape Canaveral on down is a solid 10-A and borderline 10-B.

Any how many coconut palms survived on US-1 between cocoa and Melbourne after the 2011 freeze?

Is this the 5?

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.20187,-80.661782,3a,15y,14.32h,88.27t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s98hiykyZ-16qb9NPptQLjA!2e0?hl=en

Also mainland side east of Us-1 between pineda and 520 coconuts are few and far between. now on the islands things look different.

even if coastal Brevard was 10b they still don't look like coconuts in south floridas 10a locations. Well anyway for central florida its good enough.

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edbrown_III

I fought the doom and gloom real hard as I replanted afer 1983 and 1985 and the 1989 took out everything but a queen mule, L chinesnis and saribus and washingtonias

it was a good 5 years or so before I planted anything out marginal alot of stuff I planted out after 2005 --- I just havent seen anything quite as bad only 19F at the very lowest. though 2001 and 2010 were pretty brutal---- map says 9A though. Believe it or not there were a few queens and Sabal causeriums in oddd places in Jax particularlur near buildings or natural microclimates. I think it was the very strong gale force winds that killed most of the plants . the buildings were just enought windbreak and heat gain to provide survival.

Best regards

Ed

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Jimbean

or just wait for another 1989 like event :winkie:

How would you classify these Texas cities?

Galveston (record low of 7F)

Brownsville (record low of 12F)

Comparing Texas and Florida is almost like comparing apples and oranges. I have not physically been in any of these locations, but based on what I gather Brownsville is a 10B in the very short term, 10A in the mid term, and a 9A in the long, long term. I'd place it something like a warm 9B comparable to metro Orlando in the long term.

Galveston is funny, it is just in a weird location and microclimate. Off the wall guess, it's probably a cold 9A long term (similar to south Jacksonville or New Orleans), but you can get away with calling it a 9B/10A in the short term.

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Jimbean

or just wait for another 1989 like event :winkie:

How would you classify these Texas cities?

Galveston (record low of 7F)

Brownsville (record low of 12F)

Largo, Florida has a record low of 19F, guess they shouldnt grow foxtails or royals there.... But I saw lots of great looking public plantings of foxtails and royals in largo, fantastic and spectacular palms with royals topping at about 60 feet.... but if they saw another 19F freeze they could die.... OR you can enjoy growing these beautiful palms and await climate changing to warmer temps!

the heat island effect does mitigate cold snaps, but only to the degree that the area has been urbanized. Until another 1962 like cold snap hits that area again, by all means enjoy it!

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Jimbean

East of US-1 from Cape Canaveral on down is a solid 10-A and borderline 10-B.

Any how many coconut palms survived on US-1 between cocoa and Melbourne after the 2011 freeze?

Is this the 5?

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.20187,-80.661782,3a,15y,14.32h,88.27t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s98hiykyZ-16qb9NPptQLjA!2e0?hl=en

Also mainland side east of Us-1 between pineda and 520 coconuts are few and far between. now on the islands things look different.

even if coastal Brevard was 10b they still don't look like coconuts in south floridas 10a locations. Well anyway for central florida its good enough.

I was specifically talking about along US-1.

I have several coconut palms growing around my area of Merritt Island, which is even north of all of that.

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Jimbean

East of US-1 from Cape Canaveral on down is a solid 10-A and borderline 10-B.

Any how many coconut palms survived on US-1 between cocoa and Melbourne after the 2011 freeze?

Is this the 5?

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.20187,-80.661782,3a,15y,14.32h,88.27t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s98hiykyZ-16qb9NPptQLjA!2e0?hl=en

Also mainland side east of Us-1 between pineda and 520 coconuts are few and far between. now on the islands things look different.

even if coastal Brevard was 10b they still don't look like coconuts in south floridas 10a locations. Well anyway for central florida its good enough.

I was specifically talking about along US-1.

I have several coconut palms growing around my area of Merritt Island, which is even north of all of that.

and I mean mature ones with coconuts on them.

what I meant was on the mainland of Brevard County they did not fair too well north of the Pineda causeway

edit:

and no, those are not the five I was talking about. There are a couple of nice looking coconut palms a block east of US-1 in Rockledge.

Edited by Jimbean

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empireo22

East of US-1 from Cape Canaveral on down is a solid 10-A and borderline 10-B.

Any how many coconut palms survived on US-1 between cocoa and Melbourne after the 2011 freeze?

Is this the 5?

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.20187,-80.661782,3a,15y,14.32h,88.27t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s98hiykyZ-16qb9NPptQLjA!2e0?hl=en

Also mainland side east of Us-1 between pineda and 520 coconuts are few and far between. now on the islands things look different.

even if coastal Brevard was 10b they still don't look like coconuts in south floridas 10a locations. Well anyway for central florida its good enough.

I was specifically talking about along US-1.

I have several coconut palms growing around my area of Merritt Island, which is even north of all of that.

and I mean mature ones with coconuts on them.

what I meant was on the mainland of Brevard County they did not fair too well north of the Pineda causeway

edit:

and no, those are not the five I was talking about. There are a couple of nice looking coconut palms a block east of US-1 in Rockledge.

I have seen Veitcha arecina on Rockledge by the river. nice microclimate. Also some large trunking coconuts in suntree area west of us 1.

here is one I know of but I have seen others in suntree near by.

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.228914,-80.674865,3a,20.3y,20.4h,86.85t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1swlWP_XxRuckJe74pzLSypQ!2e0?hl=en

Merritt Island around 520 is probably around the same zone as Sebastian, thanks to the river, even though im an hour south.

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Jimbean

or just wait for another 1989 like event :winkie:

How would you classify these Texas cities?

Galveston (record low of 7F)

Brownsville (record low of 12F)

This is my guestimate of Texas' zones:

texas_black2.png

Green: 8A

Blue: 8B

Orange: 9A

Yellow 9B

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Jimbean

I am assuming that if I were to use the same standards as I would use in Florida applied to Texas, I can imagine it would look something like the above.

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Jimbean

East of US-1 from Cape Canaveral on down is a solid 10-A and borderline 10-B.

Any how many coconut palms survived on US-1 between cocoa and Melbourne after the 2011 freeze?

Is this the 5?

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.20187,-80.661782,3a,15y,14.32h,88.27t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s98hiykyZ-16qb9NPptQLjA!2e0?hl=en

Also mainland side east of Us-1 between pineda and 520 coconuts are few and far between. now on the islands things look different.

even if coastal Brevard was 10b they still don't look like coconuts in south floridas 10a locations. Well anyway for central florida its good enough.

I was specifically talking about along US-1.

I have several coconut palms growing around my area of Merritt Island, which is even north of all of that.

and I mean mature ones with coconuts on them.

what I meant was on the mainland of Brevard County they did not fair too well north of the Pineda causeway

edit:

and no, those are not the five I was talking about. There are a couple of nice looking coconut palms a block east of US-1 in Rockledge.

Merritt Island around 520 is probably around the same zone as Sebastian, thanks to the river, even though im an hour south.

The all time record low here is 21F; with the heat island effect it might be 22F-23F, which still puts it at 9B in my opinion, albeit a warm 9B at that though.

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Xenon

100 Year Minima

Tallahassee (68 years): 19F

Jacksonville: 24F

Daytona (90 years): 28F

Orlando: 29F

Tampa: 31F

St. Petersburg Albert Whittted: 35F

West Palm Beach: 36F

Miami: 39F

Other places of interest

Houston: 23F

Houston Hobby (67 years): 25F

New Orleans (67 years): 25F

Galveston: 28F (very warm decade, late 90s-2010 missing)

Brownsville: 31F

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Jimbean

100 Year Minima

Tallahassee (68 years): 19F

Jacksonville: 24F

Daytona (90 years): 28F

Orlando: 29F

Tampa: 31F

St. Petersburg Albert Whittted: 35F

West Palm Beach: 36F

Miami: 39F

Other places of interest

Houston: 23F

Houston Hobby (67 years): 25F

New Orleans (67 years): 25F

Galveston: 28F (very warm decade, late 90s-2010 missing)

Brownsville: 31F

:winkie:

Those are just averages.

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Xenon

100 Year Minima

Tallahassee (68 years): 19F

Jacksonville: 24F

Daytona (90 years): 28F

Orlando: 29F

Tampa: 31F

St. Petersburg Albert Whittted: 35F

West Palm Beach: 36F

Miami: 39F

Other places of interest

Houston: 23F

Houston Hobby (67 years): 25F

New Orleans (67 years): 25F

Galveston: 28F (very warm decade, late 90s-2010 missing)

Brownsville: 31F

:winkie:

Those are just averages.

Yes 100 year average of annual minimum temperatures

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Jimbean

100 Year Minima

Tallahassee (68 years): 19F

Jacksonville: 24F

Daytona (90 years): 28F

Orlando: 29F

Tampa: 31F

St. Petersburg Albert Whittted: 35F

West Palm Beach: 36F

Miami: 39F

Other places of interest

Houston: 23F

Houston Hobby (67 years): 25F

New Orleans (67 years): 25F

Galveston: 28F (very warm decade, late 90s-2010 missing)

Brownsville: 31F

:winkie:

Those are just averages.

Yes 100 year average of annual minimum temperatures

...which unfortunately does not tell you much about what grows there long term.

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Jimbean

My area for example averages well into a zone 10A, and you will see street plantings of royals, 30ft tall mangroves, coconuts in people's backyards, 40ft fall ficus trees with about 10-15 foot diameter trunks, but it is not a 10A zone. This area has experienced a record low of 21F in 1989.

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Jimbean

I should take pictures of this area and have you guys tell me what zone you think I am in.

Edited by Jimbean

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Shirleypalmpaws

I should take pictures of this area and have you guys tell me what zone you think I am in.

Jimbean, that's what Michael & I did this last February (or maybe it was March). We took photos of our neighborhood's palms, trying to more accurately nail down our zone….which we believe is a very warm 9b and thinking it might actually be inside 10a. We're boarder-liners, pretty close to the east of the Indian river, maybe a mile but my brain cannot remember right now. Alrighty. Very much one of these days I'd like to make a thread about it, so PalmTalk can help us describe our garden zone. But it seems like no one around here knows the accuracy. Joe Alf thinks we're at least 10a. So we set out with the dogs and a camera. Almost everyone in our neighborhood is really wonderful. And most of the neighbors were really nice about us wanting to take pictures for PalmTalk, but one person asked, hey you're not the yard nazi's, are you? lol.

One of our neighbors was very helpful and gave us a little history of his royal, saying he planted it as a small maybe 7 footer overall height several years ago (he couldn't remember exactly and bought it from a big box store), well before the 2009/2010 winter zap. It is now over the roof line. He said he's never fertilized it, just only watered it. Seriously, I was dazzled by its beauty, and forgot to photograph his palm! Sometimes I just need a pat on the head and for somebody to say it's okay, everything's gonna be all right. Here's the internet's photo.

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Shirleypalmpaws

Whoops. Not east of the Indian river, but west -----just about a mile from it.

We're the little red x in the bird's eye view:

CloserthanIthought.jpg

xUs. ^Indian River ^Banana River ^Atlantic Ocean

Joe Alf thinks we have an excellent micro-climate because of the way our yard is situated and protected by other houses to our north, and I wonder that we're benefiting because of being surrounded by the developing urban-heat effect of the building boom years.---And I've always have wondered why it seems this area in particular is so hard to track historical climate data. Sometimes, this little spot truly feels like rains forgets us and it becomes the mohave! Still the winters here are just way better than the summers where I was born and raised.

Just as an aside, we go by the general rule, which I learned from PalmTalk, that if it grows in Orlando, it'll grow here in our neighborhood. lol.

Btw, this thread is yet another in a big giant mountain of most terrific threads ever on PalmTalk! Just the best school on Planet Earth :wub2:

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    • kinzyjr
      By kinzyjr
      NOAA makes weather records from the Florida stations available to download for free.  Out of the 1,700+ stations, 358 contain at least some temperature data.  If one were to download all of these records, import them into a database, and use some crafty SQL queries to generate sheets for each of the impact freezes it would provide a really good side-by-side resource to compare the microclimates in each region of Florida.
      That is exactly what has been done with the 0000_202011040720_F_SQL_v2.xlsx spreadsheet attached to this post.  Each tab in the spreadsheet contains records for one of our unfortunate cold events.  The records come sorted first by the TAG column, which represents one of the areas in the pictures and is defined by a set of latitude and longitude boundaries.  A second sort is by the station name alphabetically.  This gives you a region of weather stations sorted alphabetically that allows you to see the temperatures in the region beside each other.
      The lists are able to be filtered or sorted in any way you choose, so if you are only interested in weather stations in a particular region or set of regions, this is easily accomplished.  For easy viewing, the rows for each region alternate in shading.  This is easy to remove or change if you wish.
      If you would like to see the boundaries of a region, the weather stations used with a link to their corresponding Weather Underground station, or a listing of the freezes and some commentary lifted from Florida Citrus Mutual’s website, or a description of the station location, the 202007121300_NOAA_WeatherStations_TemperatureOnly.xlsx sheet will have a plethora of this information.
      For anyone who likes to look at the various airport weather stations on Wunderground, 202004292350_AirportWeatherStations.xlsx will give you as complete listing of these stations as I could assemble.
      Now for a description of the various TAGs:
      PEN = Pensacola area

      PAN - Panama City Area

      TAL - Tallahassee Area

      EPN - Eastern Panhandle

      CNF - Central North Florida

      JAX - Jacksonville area

      NEF - Northeast Florida - Dayona + St. Augustine and surrounding area

      NWC - Northwest Central Florida

      SWC - Southwest Central Florida

      NIC - North Inland Central Florida

      SIC - South Inland Central Florida

      ECF - East Central Florida

      SWF - Southwest Florida

      SEF - Southeast Florida

      MUK - Miami and the Upper Keys

      KEY - The South and Western Florida Keys

      0000_202011040720_F_SQL_v2.xlsx 202007121300_NOAA_WeatherStations_TemperatureOnly.xlsx 202004292350_AirportWeatherStations.xlsx
    • Tracy
      By Tracy
      La Nina patterns or cooler equatorial sea surface temps from the Central Pacific through to the Easter Tropical Pacific are occurring right now.  These patterns often lead to dry and clear Autumn and Winter weather patterns here in Southern California where I live.  The west coast just experienced a typical La Nina weather pattern last weekend with an inside slider storm coming down the coast with strong winds and leaving us now with cool dry nights and no marine layer.  I hope that this isn't a sign of what is to come as we get deeper into Autumn and enter Winter.  With clear skies, I bottomed out at 39 degrees last night, and even the weather station at Moonlight Beach right on the ocean was reading 43 degrees this morning at first glow. 
      The leaves on my banana plants got pretty beat up, and the Encephalartos laurentiaunus below which is flushing had some leaflets ripped off in the strong winds.  Everything below the wall was protected, while everything above the wall felt the full force of the wind.
      So how are you and your garden doing this during this La Nina Autumn?


    • kinzyjr
      By kinzyjr
      While perusing a few threads referencing the 1835 freeze, 1894-1895 freeze and the 1899 freeze, there were a few mentions of this book.  There are used copies available on Amazon for less than $20 so I decided to order it.  After reading it, I’d certainly recommend it.  While the content is presented primarily from the point of view of someone interested in commercial citrus growing, the information about each of the events is certainly relevant to palm horticulture.
      The book was a welcome relief from staring at a screen all day after working a job that typically centers around doing the same.  There are a lot of references and to the small cities throughout the state since they are typically where citrus is grown, and the weather data is obviously of interest to anyone growing palms since the same freezes are typically what impacts what is long-term or bulletproof in an area.
      The book contained weather records and quotes from the various growers as well as descriptions of the weather before and after the freeze.  Some of the quotes are humorous in spite of the fact that these folks likely lost a lot of money due to these events.  Almost all areas are at least represented in the weather records, including Key West in some cases.
      There are actually two freezes from California noted in the book (1937 and 1990).  In my case, the book does provide some weather readings from Lakeland City Hall rather than the airport, and has some weather readings from Bok Tower to compare to the Mammoth Grove area in Lake Wales to illustrate the difference elevation makes during a radiational event vs. an advective event.  There is also information on a few of our early and late season frosts that have the potential to impact tropical plants and citrus alike.  There book also covers an inverted freeze, where north and central Florida were not impacted as harshly as south Florida. 
      The cover photo actually came from our local newspaper, The Ledger.
      As the book was released in 1997, the 1996 freeze is the last one fully covered.  If you want a screen break and you like the data on the weather forums - give this one a read.
      Book Information: A History of Florida Citrus Freezes by John A. Attaway, Ph.D. (June 1st, 1997)
      Amazon Listing: https://www.amazon.com/John-Attaway/dp/0944961037/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=A+History+of+Florida+Citrus+Freezes&qid=1599060452&sr=8-1
      Some links posted by @richtrav @tropical1 and @Matthew92 referencing this book:
      https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/4720-long-and-lat/&do=findComment&comment=81717
      https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/9124-freezing-degree-hours/&do=findComment&comment=153877
      https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/9289-what-is-a-dewpoint/&do=findComment&comment=157382
      https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/59364-orlando-area-winters-recent-trends-and-history/

    • missknich
      By missknich
      Need help identifying this palm tree. Thank you.

    • chinandega81
      By chinandega81
      Hello,
       
      As many people know, South Florida has been much warmer than usual over the past few years (summers, winters). Lately there have been many record high lows and high daytime highs. 
       
      I have seen graphs showing a general warming trend in Miami over the past 100 years or so...it averages out to 2 or 3 degrees warmer than what it used to be in the early 1900s.
       
      My question is, do you think this is just because of cyclic patterns of warm and cool periods coinciding with urbanization? Or is this a long term trend? I have read about frosts being somewhat frequent at Fairchild in the 70s and now they are very rare if any even occurr in a winter.

      What are your experiences in South Florida regarding this warming?
      I have noticed many bread fruit trees in my neighborhood, but I also know they grow fast so they probably haven't been around for too many years.
       
      Please share your thoughts or experiences in the garden and weather world from South Florida, I would love to hear them.
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