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Most Northerly area of Florida Considered Zone 10b,10a, and 9b


Alicehunter2000

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I'm definitely no expert on Orlando's temperatures, but I have noticed it looks way less tropical there than St. Petersburg south, I mean 1 or 2 growing zones different. That being said, Eric at Leu Gardens seems to be able to grow some pretty tropical stuff there, so who knows. The reason I'm pretty confident about the weather from St. Pete to Ft. Myers on the gulf coast, as well as Palm Beach County, is because on cold nights, I stay up late and compare their real-time temps from all the user-submitted weather stations on Wunderground, and although it may not be 'scientific' or 100% accurate, they consistently show the same noticeably different temperature patterns for the various areas, depending on how much wind there is.

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I'm definitely no expert on Orlando's temperatures, but I have noticed it looks way less tropical there than St. Petersburg south, I mean 1 or 2 growing zones different. That being said, Eric at Leu Gardens seems to be able to grow some pretty tropical stuff there, so who knows. The reason I'm pretty confident about the weather from St. Pete to Ft. Myers on the gulf coast, as well as Palm Beach County, is because on cold nights, I stay up late and compare their real-time temps from all the user-submitted weather stations on Wunderground, and although it may not be 'scientific' or 100% accurate, they consistently show the same noticeably different temperature patterns for the various areas, depending on how much wind there is.

I do the same thing, and I have good knowledge of Brevard, Indian River, St. Lucie, and Martin counties, and most of Orange and Seminole counties.

As for Orlando, it is really a warm 9B, the metro area long term averages something like 30F to 31F. The areas around that average something like 26F to 30F.

Brevard County, Fl

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I am doing a map of Orange and Seminole counties. I have a workload for the next two weeks, so we will see how much spare time I am going to have.

Brevard County, Fl

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Nice to see my thread still going....jeez...I should get an award or something.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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LOL @ Alicehunter2000. I suspect Jimbean is probably correct about Orlando, city and metro. Just my opinion, though.

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I can't wait to see the latest version of the maps for Orange and Seminole counties. Thank you for all the time and energy to do this Jim.

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Today I took a drive up on the ridge (Lake Wales Ridge) into town (Lake Placid, Florida) and decided to check out some of the few coconut palms growing there. I maintain that most winters the town is a solid USDA zone 10b. I know for a fact that two of the coconut palms growing there have been there for 15 years. In 2010 these palms were hurt, but mostly from prolonged cold. They were not totally defoliated as I have photos of them. They did look like they were suffering from manganese and/or boron deficiency, but they grew out of it.

I wrote an article back in 2014 in the Central Florida Palm and Cycad Society's Palmateer magazine (now an online publication) of my experiences with temperature gradients on the ridge. One winter morning (on a radiational cooling morning) my wife left for work around 6:30 a.m. and her car thermometer read 31 degrees at the head of our driveway. She was in communication with me, both on or cell phones. As she started up the ridge to US 27 the temperature rose little by little, as she read off 32, 33, 34, etc., until she got to the top of the ridge where her thermometer read 39 degrees. I estimate that 95% of our coldest mornings here in Lake Placid are radiational cooling events, thus there is a marked air stratification, with the warmest air being at the higher points on the ridge. Also, the town of Lake Placid is surrounded by 12 lakes. The relative warm air off these lakes waft up on the ridge, which also helps. What chaps my butt now is that I had a chance to buy 5 acres up on the ridge between Lake June and Placid Lake (2nd and 3rd respectively largest lakes in Highlands County) back in 1997 when I moved here, but I had no idea at the time the value (warmer at night) of higher ground, plus I had no idea I would fall head over heels in the palm and tropical plant growing hobby. I could still buy some high ground property now, but I'm too old now to start over. Wife says we aren't going anywhere -- and she's right.

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Mad about palms

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Absolutely beautiful Jamaican Talls, with nuts in interior Florida!

They look more like Maypans to me...

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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Today I took a drive up on the ridge (Lake Wales Ridge) into town (Lake Placid, Florida) and decided to check out some of the few coconut palms growing there. I maintain that most winters the town is a solid USDA zone 10b. I know for a fact that two of the coconut palms growing there have been there for 15 years. In 2010 these palms were hurt, but mostly from prolonged cold. They were not totally defoliated as I have photos of them. They did look like they were suffering from manganese and/or boron deficiency, but they grew out of it.

I wrote an article back in 2014 in the Central Florida Palm and Cycad Society's Palmateer magazine (now an online publication) of my experiences with temperature gradients on the ridge. One winter morning (on a radiational cooling morning) my wife left for work around 6:30 a.m. and her car thermometer read 31 degrees at the head of our driveway. She was in communication with me, both on or cell phones. As she started up the ridge to US 27 the temperature rose little by little, as she read off 32, 33, 34, etc., until she got to the top of the ridge where her thermometer read 39 degrees. I estimate that 95% of our coldest mornings here in Lake Placid are radiational cooling events, thus there is a marked air stratification, with the warmest air being at the higher points on the ridge. Also, the town of Lake Placid is surrounded by 12 lakes. The relative warm air off these lakes waft up on the ridge, which also helps. What chaps my butt now is that I had a chance to buy 5 acres up on the ridge between Lake June and Placid Lake (2nd and 3rd respectively largest lakes in Highlands County) back in 1997 when I moved here, but I had no idea at the time the value (warmer at night) of higher ground, plus I had no idea I would fall head over heels in the palm and tropical plant growing hobby. I could still buy some high ground property now, but I'm too old now to start over. Wife says we aren't going anywhere -- and she's right.

I have done the same thing Walt, driving around Houston and monitoring my car's thermometer reading. The Houston terrain is flat but there are local areas that show some local variation and across the town there are warm areas like downtown and toward Galveston Bay. The best time to do this is on clear cold windless nights, when radiational effects are maximized.

One night a few years ago I was driving 50 miles WNW of Austin Texas in the Texas Hill Country on a clear calm winter night at about 4am. It was amazing to see 6-8 degree temperature changes going up and down and around the hills. Austin is in zone 8b and the western side of town is very hilly. I would bet that there are 9a climates in spots on the western side of town.

Ed in Houston

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Today I took a drive up on the ridge (Lake Wales Ridge) into town (Lake Placid, Florida) and decided to check out some of the few coconut palms growing there. I maintain that most winters the town is a solid USDA zone 10b. I know for a fact that two of the coconut palms growing there have been there for 15 years. In 2010 these palms were hurt, but mostly from prolonged cold. They were not totally defoliated as I have photos of them. They did look like they were suffering from manganese and/or boron deficiency, but they grew out of it.

I wrote an article back in 2014 in the Central Florida Palm and Cycad Society's Palmateer magazine (now an online publication) of my experiences with temperature gradients on the ridge. One winter morning (on a radiational cooling morning) my wife left for work around 6:30 a.m. and her car thermometer read 31 degrees at the head of our driveway. She was in communication with me, both on or cell phones. As she started up the ridge to US 27 the temperature rose little by little, as she read off 32, 33, 34, etc., until she got to the top of the ridge where her thermometer read 39 degrees. I estimate that 95% of our coldest mornings here in Lake Placid are radiational cooling events, thus there is a marked air stratification, with the warmest air being at the higher points on the ridge. Also, the town of Lake Placid is surrounded by 12 lakes. The relative warm air off these lakes waft up on the ridge, which also helps. What chaps my butt now is that I had a chance to buy 5 acres up on the ridge between Lake June and Placid Lake (2nd and 3rd respectively largest lakes in Highlands County) back in 1997 when I moved here, but I had no idea at the time the value (warmer at night) of higher ground, plus I had no idea I would fall head over heels in the palm and tropical plant growing hobby. I could still buy some high ground property now, but I'm too old now to start over. Wife says we aren't going anywhere -- and she's right.

I have done the same thing Walt, driving around Houston and monitoring my car's thermometer reading. The Houston terrain is flat but there are local areas that show some local variation and across the town there are warm areas like downtown and toward Galveston Bay. The best time to do this is on clear cold windless nights, when radiational effects are maximized.

One night a few years ago I was driving 50 miles WNW of Austin Texas in the Texas Hill Country on a clear calm winter night at about 4am. It was amazing to see 6-8 degree temperature changes going up and down and around the hills. Austin is in zone 8b and the western side of town is very hilly. I would bet that there are 9a climates in spots on the western side of town.

Ed in Houston

Ed: Usually, on the coldest radiational cooling nights our local meteorologist will give a report typically calling for, say, 30 low ground and 37 high ground, etc. I've lived here since 1997 and my coldest advective night was only 29 degrees, back in December of 2003. It's the radiational cooling nights that are the coldest for me. I had a low of 20.8 (my all-time low) in December of 2010. But up in town was at least 10 degrees warmer, as I rode up there and papaya plant leaves weren't damaged.

But out here in the deepest inland south central Florida, low ground can get very cold. In fact, about 10 miles south of me is an anomaly kind of area (Archbold Biological Station and immediate surrounding area) that is now rated USDA zone 9a (and I think that is conservative; I believe it's closer to 8b). Yet, on many occasions they've had lows in the mid teens, with 13 degrees being their all-time lowest record. Out here high ground and proximity to a large lake makes all the difference in the world.

Mad about palms

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Keith,

You may be right. You guys in Florida have a lot more experience with Maypans. Maybe Walt knows since they are in his neck of the woods.

John

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  • 5 years later...
On 5/2/2014 at 9:36 AM, Alicehunter2000 said:

What zone is Cedar Key? Zone maps are probably pretty useless for this tiny island so far north. I wonder if P. roebelini grows long term there? Or might it be even warmer than that. I understand that there are freak cold events that extend well into Florida.....but barring a 100 year freeze. ...might some place like that support growing Royal's?

Royals even grow in Jacksonville, but they die in bad winters.

Edited by EastCanadaTropicals

Nothing to say here. 

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  • 4 months later...

I have lived in Cocoa Beach Fl (appx 1 mile from ocean) many years. Winter lows lower to mid 50s and RARELY in 40s. So, 10a, 10b whatever 

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