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A list of Trachycarpus species and forms + map


Tobias Valentin

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Recently, someone asked for a list of Trachycarpus species.

Yesterday, I made a list of Trachycarpus species and forms in a map.

The list + map is available here:

http://www.tobiasvalentin.dk

Cheers,
Tobias

  • Upvote 2

Copenhagen, Denmark
Zone 8 (coastal with cool summer, cold winter)

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Cool map, it would seem that princeps should be about the same cold hardiness as fortuni according to the map.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Good point. T. princeps is certainly one of the northernmost species. It could be quite hardy. I hope so.

One thing that could speak against it, is the fact that the habitat is in a real subtropical environment at 1600 meters a.s.l. (5250 feet). Still, in spite of that, it could have a good cold hardiness, beyond what its habitat demands of it directly. Let´s hope that.

Copenhagen, Denmark
Zone 8 (coastal with cool summer, cold winter)

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From anecdotal evidence here in Atlanta, princeps is not as hardy as fortunei, and is probably a true zone 8a palm. There are no mature specimens in cultivation that I'm aware of, so perhaps it gets hardier with age. Still, I have a hard time believing it could survive single digits unprotected

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Cool map, it would seem that princeps should be about the same cold hardiness as fortuni according to the map.

Pardon my simplistic mind, but it seems they are all, everyone of them, pretty close in cold hardiness.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Cool map, it would seem that princeps should be about the same cold hardiness as fortuni according to the map.

Pardon my simplistic mind, but it seems they are all, everyone of them, pretty close in cold hardiness.

Yes, except for Fortunei which has survived below zero F in North America and Europe, and probably Asia considering how long it's been cultivated. Also, takil is likely hardier than most since it sees snow and fairly cold temperatures in habitat regularly.

Which leads me to ask: since Fortunei is currently only known from cultivation and/or feral populations, since some forms of Fortunei are so much hardier than the other species, and since it's been cultivated for thousands of years, could T. Fortunei be a man-made cultivar/descendant of another trachy species selected over time to grow further north than it's natural range?

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It is an interesting theory. Could T. fortunei (or some varieties), have turned into a more cold hardy version of itself over time through traditional cultivation in China?

Who knows. It is easy to imagine some useful crop getting still more cold hardy over the generations, as the selection pressure towards cold hardiness would occur in the colder zones, being indirectly associated with better yield in the long run, e.g. fibers from the trunk in the case of T. fortunei.

There are, though, a few problems for this to happen. First of all, for an improved cold hardiness trait to begin its course in the first place, the long term likelihood of farmers to be tempted to push T. fortunei into just a slightly colder zone, would have to win over the same "colder zone farmer's" rich possibilities of growing crops that are better suited for the colder zone - crops with maybe similar or more valuable features. Over time, such crops will beat a slow producing palm tree, occupying space. It is clear that the palm growing fun stops at a certain point. On the other hand, a strong driver for "man made" cold hardiness in T. fortunei would be, if its products were so unique compared to other crops in the colder zone, that a lot of people would want it and be willing to offer it enough attention so that it would thrive and evolve locally for generations, fitting better still into the new climatic transition situation. Under the right conditions, this evolution could happen without drama, through the millenniums.

Where this threshold lies in different climatic and mercantile settings, is anyone's guess.

But secondly, there is another problem. When we look at cultivated forms that are slightly hardier than average T. fortunei, we still don't know how many wild populations (wherever they may grow in the wild) that the same kind of cold hardiness would apply to.

I am not saying it didn't happen, only that it is problematic, and well worth some new palm studies!

Copenhagen, Denmark
Zone 8 (coastal with cool summer, cold winter)

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Well said!

I just find it strange that Fortunei isn't found in the wild, and that there are populations on Chusan and in Southern Japan when every single other trachycarpus species is found on or southeast of the Himalayan arc.

I suppose a comparative genetic analysis between the cultivated forms and the other trachy species would solve this question, or if someone can find a truly "wild" population of Fortunei.

Maybe there's a PhD in it for whoever wants to figure this all out!

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Also, it's my understanding that t. Fortunei is often found in temple gardens, especially in Japan. Perhaps the palm had some form of cultural/religious significance which provided incentive to cultivate it outside it's native range?

Or maybe the ancients cultivated it purely for ornamental value and the only people who were able to devote the time to such a luxury were the temple gardeners

Edited by stevethegator
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Well said!

I just find it strange that Fortunei isn't found in the wild, and that there are populations on Chusan and in Southern Japan when every single other trachycarpus species is found on or southeast of the Himalayan arc.

There is no doubt that T. fortunei has been widely introduced in cultivation by man in China (and Japan).

But we can't tell if this process has resulted in improved cold hardiness, or if the T. fortunei cultivation belt generally - in terms of winter temperature - simply corresponds to its original habitat, or at least to the species' unaltered, natural potential for cold hardiness.

On the European Palm Society forum, there has been photos showing T. fortunei in natural surroundings. But so far, no one knows the locations - the photos were found by accident on the internet.

Also, It seems no one knows if they represent original habitat or "just" escaped, naturalized cultivated T. fortunei.

Personally, I believe that T. fortunei eventually will be discovered in a truly wild state, somewhere on a steep mountain side above 1,000 meters, near the 28th latitude in China.

Copenhagen, Denmark
Zone 8 (coastal with cool summer, cold winter)

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Well said!

I just find it strange that Fortunei isn't found in the wild, and that there are populations on Chusan and in Southern Japan when every single other trachycarpus species is found on or southeast of the Himalayan arc.

There is no doubt that T. fortunei has been widely introduced in cultivation by man in China (and Japan).

But we can't tell if this process has resulted in improved cold hardiness, or if the T. fortunei cultivation belt generally - in terms of winter temperature - simply corresponds to its original habitat, or at least to the species' unaltered, natural potential for cold hardiness.

On the European Palm Society forum, there has been photos showing T. fortunei in natural surroundings. But so far, no one knows the locations - the photos were found by accident on the internet.

Also, It seems no one knows if they represent original habitat or "just" escaped, naturalized cultivated T. fortunei.

Personally, I believe that T. fortunei eventually will be discovered in a truly wild state, somewhere on a steep mountain side above 1,000 meters, near the 28th latitude in China.

Are you aware of the fact that there are many diverse forms of t. Fortunes all over wild China? The original t. Fortunei comes from Zhoushan island.

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Well said!

I just find it strange that Fortunei isn't found in the wild, and that there are populations on Chusan and in Southern Japan when every single other trachycarpus species is found on or southeast of the Himalayan arc.

There is no doubt that T. fortunei has been widely introduced in cultivation by man in China (and Japan).

But we can't tell if this process has resulted in improved cold hardiness, or if the T. fortunei cultivation belt generally - in terms of winter temperature - simply corresponds to its original habitat, or at least to the species' unaltered, natural potential for cold hardiness.

On the European Palm Society forum, there has been photos showing T. fortunei in natural surroundings. But so far, no one knows the locations - the photos were found by accident on the internet.

Also, It seems no one knows if they represent original habitat or "just" escaped, naturalized cultivated T. fortunei.

Personally, I believe that T. fortunei eventually will be discovered in a truly wild state, somewhere on a steep mountain side above 1,000 meters, near the 28th latitude in China.

Are you aware of the fact that there are many diverse forms of t. Fortunes all over wild China? The original t. Fortunei comes from Zhoushan island.

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Are you aware of the fact that there are many diverse forms of t. Fortunes all over wild China? The original t. Fortunei comes from Zhoushan island.

Yes, but it seems they are cultivated forms - including the ones from Zhoushan Island / Chusan Island (according to Gibbons & Spanner in "The genus Trachycarpus").

I think they do exist in the wild, and I look foreword to the day someone will openly show the hard evidence of that.

Copenhagen, Denmark
Zone 8 (coastal with cool summer, cold winter)

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DNA is the only way to tackle this problem, but it needs funding and a lot of good accessions from all over China. Just one of the issues is how to differentiate otherwise between natural and naturalized populations.

Best, TOBY

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Yes, that would be nice - a survey with a large material of Trachycarpus DNA.
Sleepless nights and speculations would be spared.

Edited by Tobias Valentin

Copenhagen, Denmark
Zone 8 (coastal with cool summer, cold winter)

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My hope if to find a trachy form that's reliably hardy to 0F or slightly below, possible?

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From anecdotal evidence here in Atlanta, princeps is not as hardy as fortunei, and is probably a true zone 8a palm. There are no mature specimens in cultivation that I'm aware of, so perhaps it gets hardier with age. Still, I have a hard time believing it could survive single digits unprotected

I have to agree with Steve, I had four planted out as one gallons a few years ago and one died after three nights @ 12F ( growing out in the open) but all the seedlings fortunei made it with no problems. The other three princeps were in more protected spots. I also don’t think it likes really wet winters with hard freezes. 8a sounds right to me.

Great map too.

Edited by Palm crazy
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  • 4 weeks later...

I would talk to Garry in China,he seems to find a few different Trachys every year,

none seem to be typical Fortunei but they may all be Fortunei-the only stable

form of Trachy is Fortunei and they are all mutts!

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