Hawaii Dreams and Reality

[Kim]

Beaches, right, they are mostly rocky. It's an adjustment, not a deal-killer.

My favorite sandy beach on the Big Island is Mauna Kea, which controls the crowd factor by having a small parking lot. For snorkeling near Kona, easiest is Two-Step with an unbelievable wealth of sea life. Saw my first octopus there.

A great beach for waves is Honoli'i heading north out of Hilo, at a river mouth where a high arching bridge passes overhead. Unbelievably scenic, and easy waves for beginners.

Local alternative for snorkeling is Richardson's Beach at the other end of Hilo, part sand, part rock, but easy to enter and exit without cutting your feet. See turtles and colorful fish just beyond your fingertips, or choose to surf or SUP the reef.

Hilo Bay is for paddlers! Get into an outrigger canoe with the locals and learn the culture of paddling and respect for the canoe.

Best local spot near Leilani Estates is Pohoiki Beach, with a boat ramp into a hot-springs warmed protected inlet, and 3 different breaks outside for surfing or body boarding. Not for beginners; I've left a little skin and blood on the rocks, but the scenery is out of this world.

A short distance away is the wave-free hot pond, safe for babies, perfect for floating and chatting while wearing sunglasses and hats under the arch of swaying coconut trees. There are always spaces in the parking lots at these last two, and it's possible to come down out of the clouds at 800 ft. elevation and into the warm coastal sun, driving distance less than 6 miles.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I don't want to beat this to death, but I had to laugh -- yesterday I went to Trader Joe's. The parking lot in this particular shopping center was overflowing with Sunday traffic, to the point there were people in orange vests directing cars in and out. Inside, shoppers were elbow to elbow selecting food almost exclusively wrapped in plastic, pre-sorted packages, or frozen, or in boxes.

(Edit: I don't know what happened -- couldn't finish typing my post, weird!)

Yeah, they have all those orchids for $12, and lots of interesting imported foods. Fine. "Would you be willing to give up Trader Joes? :)" asks Axel.

Let's flip that around. At the Hilo, Pahoa, or Maku'u Farmer's Markets, I can get fresh organic local produce for prices similar to Trader Joe's or less. Bananas come in many colors and sizes, not just the Chiquita version. Sellers will snip bunches of fresh herbs and sprouts for me, exotic tropical fruits are fresh, ripe, and cheap, and while I'm shopping, I can listen to local musicians, or consume a freshly made French-style crepe stuffed with artichoke hearts and olives, or try some barbecued kalua pork on a sandwich. I always run into a number of people I know, so it's a social visit, too. I take my time, visit the plant vendors who know me now, and bring a bromeliad, palm, or vireya they know I will like, and often make a stop at the $5 orchid table for blossoms to decorate the home, then later set out in the ferns in the garden. In Pahoa, I can line up for freshly pounded Thai green papaya salad, just-right spicy, and the lime as fresh as it gets. Best of all, this occurs outdoors, under airy tarps in the Hawaiian sunshine (or soft warm rain).

"Would you be willing to give up Hilo/Pahoa/Maku'u Farmer's Markets?" Oh no, now you are asking too much!

Kim, I came pretty close to becoming a neighbor, so obviously I like the island. I loved the farmer's markets on the Big Island, there's no question they're unbeatable. But Trader Joes would be hard to give up, and we have amazing farmer's markets here in Santa Cruz as well as Trader Joes without the lines you have in Southern California.

One big drawback with living here is that I just got home and my palms look sooooo tiny!

I would be happy as a clam with the right property in the right location and gardening with tropicals to my heart's content. Like Dean, I would probably settle on the Kona side because of the beaches and the calmer, more accessible ocean, and because the weather above 1,000 feet is so much more to my liking there. I am not cut out for the wet rainy conditions of the East side of the island even if it's perfect for palms. Without access to lots of sandy beaches I'd get island fever in a bad way. I prefer Santa Cruz to the East side of the Big Island.

With that being said, whether I love Kona or not is not relevant. The window of opportunity to put an anchor on the island has closed. My wife doesn't deem the Big Island suitable enough for raising kids, the racism and the level of corruption and petty crime is a deterrent for us that far outweighs the natural beauty of the place. Nowhere is the racism more prevalent than in schools. This would not be an issue if we didn't have kids or our kids were already off to college. I hope no one takes offense to this, it's just the reality of what we face. It wasn't easy to let go of the dream of growing perfect palms, but the point of the thread is that palms aren't everything.

[Peter Pacific]

Moving to a new location anywhere is a challenge for anyone. When I read this post I thought "puchica, Hawai'i is a piece of cake"! I moved to the southern Pacific coast of Guatemala after visiting for thirty years. It took me two years of travelling back and forth to see if I could really move there permanently. Ten years later of living in front of the ocean in the boonies and, literally, not mulch else, I love it here. There are no stores, no Macy's or Home Depot and the palms are all very common.

Like Kim said about her new home...ask me if I could move back to the States? Oooohhhh, I don't think so. Hawai'i sounds like a dream!

Peter

[colin Peters]

Axel, I was willing and have.

Wouldn't move back to the mainland for anything. Not that I did't love Seattle, but I love Hawaii much more. I have been here 16 yrs. My wife's family 103 yrs, in the same valley, and on the same land.

My wife is Hawiian, my boys are Hawaiian. Their culture is Hawaiian. We have at least 300-400 relatives in the same valley. What more security and love would I ask for. Honolulu does have about

the worst traffic in the country. And my neighbors are two feet away on all sides, but at least they are family. You learn to live with the high prices, and adjust your lifestyle. I can see native Pritchardia Bakeri from

my front yard. What more could I want. I have about 10 times more palms and plants in my tiny yard than there should be, but thats what makes it great.

I know it is a totally different lifestyle than the big island, but it is now home.

Just my two cents.

You have to decide what is right for you, I know we have. Much aloha Colin

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel, I was willing and have.

Wouldn't move back to the mainland for anything. Not that I did't love Seattle, but I love Hawaii much more. I have been here 16 yrs. My wife's family 103 yrs, in the same valley, and on the same land.

My wife is Hawiian, my boys are Hawaiian. Their culture is Hawaiian. We have at least 300-400 relatives in the same valley. What more security and love would I ask for. Honolulu does have about

the worst traffic in the country. And my neighbors are two feet away on all sides, but at least they are family. You learn to live with the high prices, and adjust your lifestyle. I can see native Pritchardia Bakeri from

my front yard. What more could I want. I have about 10 times more palms and plants in my tiny yard than there should be, but thats what makes it great.

I know it is a totally different lifestyle than the big island, but it is now home.

Just my two cents.

You have to decide what is right for you, I know we have. Much aloha Colin

Well, going to the island and marrying a beautiful Hawaiian woman and having Hawaiian kids, now that's a whole different story! Talk about instantly integrating into the community. I don't think my wife will like that idea, though.

[bgl]

Apparently, as we already concluded, Hawaii and the Big Island is not for everyone, and clearly not the place for Axel at this point in time. But who knows, things tend to change as we go through life. Axel, I am sorry it didn't work out, but I can certainly understand how you see this and why it's not a good idea for you and your family. A couple of minor points, though (in addition to some of the excellent points made by Kim in her two posts earlier today);

About "crooked real estate agents" - here, like everywhere else, it's really important to get referalls, no matter who you're going to use or hire. Talk to people who have used the services of the company or individual you intend to use and only use the ones where you KNOW that people have had good experiences.

Hilo - wow Axel, I wonder when you went there!? Hilo is a thriving little town, rivaling Grand Central Station in being busy! BUT, you have to know the dynamics and the lifestyle here. The Hilo side of the island is basically a farming community. Up early and go to bed early. Hilo in the evening can be dead as a doornail. In the afternoon, so-so. Many mornings (especially Saturdays and Wednesdays when the Farmers' Market is in full swing), it's busier than busy. If you didn't experience that, you missed out.

And no sandy beaches on the Hilo side of the island - oh, that's THE WHOLE POINT!! Not that we can do much about this, but the great thing about the Big Island is its VARIETY. You want sandy beaches, well, we have the Kona side for that. You want untouched, dramatic and volcanic nature right out to the ocean, well, we have Hilo side for that! What more could we possibly ask for? Would be terribly boring if everywhere we went there'd be sandy beaches.

And minor detail - Leilani Estates is 30 minutes from Hilo, not an hour. That's when traffic is not a problem. And yes, right now there's a major bottleneck (primarily in early morning and during the afternoon) on Highway 130 south of Kea'au. Once the widening of the road is complete, that should no longer be an issue. If you hit that area in non-rushhour then you can cruise through in a few minutes.

And yes, petty theft can occur here, as it can no matter where you live. Unfortunately. Personally, and with the exception of one incident back in early 1996, I perceive this area to be very safe, and that opinion is shared by lots of people here. And "racism", well, since I havn't had school-age children for many years I can't speak about the situation in the schools, even though I have heard stories second and third hand. From a personal point of view, I have had nothing but very friendly interaction with everybody here, and that certainly includes Hawaiians and "locals". I have come to believe this is all in your own attitude. If you're willing to embrace the lifestyle, you will have no problems here.

Bo-Göran

[bgl]

Well, going to the island and marrying a beautiful Hawaiian woman and having Hawaiian kids, now that's a whole different story! Talk about instantly integrating into the community. I don't think my wife will like that idea, though.

Have you discussed it?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Apparently, as we already concluded, Hawaii and the Big Island is not for everyone, and clearly not the place for Axel at this point in time. But who knows, things tend to change as we go through life. Axel, I am sorry it didn't work out, but I can certainly understand how you see this and why it's not a good idea for you and your family. A couple of minor points, though (in addition to some of the excellent points made by Kim in her two posts earlier today);

About "crooked real estate agents" - here, like everywhere else, it's really important to get referalls, no matter who you're going to use or hire. Talk to people who have used the services of the company or individual you intend to use and only use the ones where you KNOW that people have had good experiences.

Hilo - wow Axel, I wonder when you went there!? Hilo is a thriving little town, rivaling Grand Central Station in being busy! BUT, you have to know the dynamics and the lifestyle here. The Hilo side of the island is basically a farming community. Up early and go to bed early. Hilo in the evening can be dead as a doornail. In the afternoon, so-so. Many mornings (especially Saturdays and Wednesdays when the Farmers' Market is in full swing), it's busier than busy. If you didn't experience that, you missed out.

And no sandy beaches on the Hilo side of the island - oh, that's THE WHOLE POINT!! Not that we can do much about this, but the great thing about the Big Island is its VARIETY. You want sandy beaches, well, we have the Kona side for that. You want untouched, dramatic and volcanic nature right out to the ocean, well, we have Hilo side for that! What more could we possibly ask for? Would be terribly boring if everywhere we went there'd be sandy beaches.

And minor detail - Leilani Estates is 30 minutes from Hilo, not an hour. That's when traffic is not a problem. And yes, right now there's a major bottleneck (primarily in early morning and during the afternoon) on Highway 130 south of Kea'au. Once the widening of the road is complete, that should no longer be an issue. If you hit that area in non-rushhour then you can cruise through in a few minutes.

And yes, petty theft can occur here, as it can no matter where you live. Unfortunately. Personally, and with the exception of one incident back in early 1996, I perceive this area to be very safe, and that opinion is shared by lots of people here. And "racism", well, since I havn't had school-age children for many years I can't speak about the situation in the schools, even though I have heard stories second and third hand. From a personal point of view, I have had nothing but very friendly interaction with everybody here, and that certainly includes Hawaiians and "locals". I have come to believe this is all in your own attitude. If you're willing to embrace the lifestyle here, you will have no problems here.

Bo-Göran

Bo, I think Dean said it best, withstanding raising kids, there is something for everyone on the island. For me it would have to be Kona. As for the real estate agent, it wasn't my end that was the problem, I had one of the nicest, most honest agent you could imagine, she is actually a friend. I'd recommend her to anyone in a heartbeat. It was the other end that was crooked. I can't choose the listing agent, that usually comes with the property. With that being said, I wouldn't trust any listing agent over there. The corruption comes from the fact that filing an ethical violation complaint the board of realtors is a waste of time, because they know each other, so there is a ton of conflict of interest. This happens all over the island, there is a "network" and people get away with dishonest behavior on the island that would never be tolerated on the mainland. The same problem occurs with the petty crime and burglaries, good luck getting the police to do anything about the problems, unless you catch the thieves on camera, you're on your own to defend yourself.

[bgl]

Bo, I think Dean said it best, not widthstanding raising kids, there is something for everyone on the island. For me it would have to be Kona. As for the real estate agent, it wasn't my end that was the problem, I had one of the nicest, most honest agent you could imagine, she is actually a friend. I'd recommend her to anyone in a heartbeat. It was the other end that was crooked. I can't choose the listing agent, that usually comes with the property. With that being said, I wouldn't trust any listing agent over there.

Good point, and so sorry that you had that unfortunate experience.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Bo, I think Dean said it best, not widthstanding raising kids, there is something for everyone on the island. For me it would have to be Kona. As for the real estate agent, it wasn't my end that was the problem, I had one of the nicest, most honest agent you could imagine, she is actually a friend. I'd recommend her to anyone in a heartbeat. It was the other end that was crooked. I can't choose the listing agent, that usually comes with the property. With that being said, I wouldn't trust any listing agent over there.

Good point, and so sorry that you had that unfortunate experience.

You guys that live over there should be very active to try to make the island a better place. There are lots of issues that I see that are simply horrible and unethical. Here are some:

Did you know that "Kona Coffee" used to contain about 1% Kona grown coffee? Complaints lead the Hawaiian legislature to pass a law requiring that Kona coffee labels require 10% kona coffee. This is laughable. And when you buy "Hawaiian macadamia", you're buying Australian mac nuts with maybe 1% Hawaii grown macs. And did you know that the mac growing association went out to tell folks to stop growing macs because of over-production, and at the same time the leaders were planting large plantations in Hamakua.

Then there are the folks making money off the geothermal energy conflicts. They buy property next to the proposed geothermal plants, then they run protests, and then they get the energy company to pay top dollar to buy out their property.

And don't even get me started about the anti-telescope expansion in the name of making the volcano "sacred". Using rhetoric from the middle ages and somehow this stuff is taken seriously.

Finally, the biggest threat to palm growers I see is all this anti-non-natives activism that will soon shut down the islands like New Zealand.

Maybe all of this is not visible to people, it certainly was visible to me and it had an impact on how I perceive the island. And the fact that one family owns the waterfront in Kona and Hilo and refuses to invest even a dime to fix it up. I forget the guy's name, he's in his 80's. Anyway, 'nuff said. I turned over a lot of stones and all sorts of things came crawling out, not so nice.

[realarch]

Bo, your observations are spot on. Honestly, palms were down the list on making the decision to move to Hilo back in 2004. We made many visits to the Big Island to find the right spot for us and that

spot happened to be Hilo. We loved the local culture, architecture, attitude and found the 'folks' here very accepting and friendly. In the beginning the fact that we're haole and gay caused a bit of apprehension, but it has not once

been a problem.

Attitude and your approach to life is the key not only here, but everywhere. I could be happy anywhere, but living in Hilo and having my palm garden are icing on the cake. Rain? It's wonderful and

a blessing. Believe me there are enough warm sunny rainless days of working in the garden to make one wonder where the rain has gone. The friends that we have made here

make life full and busy and not having a particular store is insignificant. In the scheme of things, Hilo is a lively small town and offers almost everything on a different level including theater, live music, fantastic local culture, restaurants, and shopping.

Everyone smiles here. Honestly, people are so kind and courteous you have to stop and take time to accommodate it. It's an easy behavior to emulate. I'm typically called 'Uncle' by perfect strangers when being

addressed, it must be the white hair and all the wrinkles.

Tim

[doranakandawatta]

Everyone smiles here. Honestly, people are so kind and courteous you have to stop and take time to accommodate it. It's an easy behavior to emulate. I'm typically called 'Uncle' by perfect strangers when being

addressed, it must be the white hair and all the wrinkles.

Hawaiian people must have had a sinhalese education, same happens to me; Philip uncle or Philip Sir..! so many smiles!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I think that's great that many of you who live in Hawaii see the place through rose colored glasses. I did encounter a lot of Aloha spirit too. We went to black sands beach beyond South Point and a Hawaiian lady was selling banana bread, mochi and cookies. It was the end of the day and as she packed up, she loaded us with goodies and refused to accept any of our money. All she said is "please come back and visit Hawaii".

But with a kid, we had to do some research. For those interested in the rest of the story, these are the reasons my wife says no to Hawaii. Here are some links for people to look at. These issues have been confirmed to me by many people who live there, and they choose to live there because these are things that don't really affect them.

The biggest issue: School violence: the last day of school in Hawaii is called "Kill a Haole day". Would you want to send your kids to school to be bullied? Not me. This was even outlined in a book called "So you want to move to Hawaii". But you can find plenty of press on this as well. See for example http://www.hawaiireporter.com/bullying-in-hawaii-a-state-of-denial/123

White children in our schools are harassed, intimidated, and physically abused. The last school day of the year in Hawaii, for example, is traditionally called “kill a haole day”... Anti-white sentiments such as these have been more than 200 years in the making. The pivotal event occurred when American and European businessmen, backed by U.S. military forces, overthrew Hawaii's monarch in 1893 and placed her under house arrest two years later. The United States annexed the islands as a territory in 1898, and they became a state in 1959.

Little wonder then that as Hawaii prepares to observe the 50th anniversary of becoming the 50th state on Aug. 21, it will a muted celebration, devoid of parades or fireworks.

Our kid is the cutest blondest California towhead you can imagine. He'd get harassed like crazy.

Burglaries:

http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/sections/news/local-news/burglaries-surge-big-island.html

Racism and police and judges siding against mainlanders:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/fall/prejudice-in-paradise

Celia Padron went on a Hawaiian vacation last year, lured by the prospect of beautiful beaches and friendly people. She, her husband and two teenage daughters enjoyed the black sand beach at Makena State Park on Maui. But a Hawaiian girl accosted her two teenage daughters, saying, "Go back to the mainland" and "Take your white ass off our beaches," says Padron, a pediatric gastroenterologist in New Jersey.

When her husband, 68 at the time, stepped between the girls, three young Hawaiian men slammed him against a vehicle, cutting his ear, and choked and punched him, Padron says. Police officers persuaded the Padrons not to press charges, saying it would be expensive for them to return for court appearances and a Hawaiian judge would side with the Hawaiian assailants, the doctor contends.

Macadamia Fraud:

http://www.naturalnews.com/021805_macadamia_nuts_mac.html

Kona coffee fraud:

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/two-bills-address-consumer-fraud-in-hawaii-coffee-labeling/123

Real Estate fraud:

http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/hawaiiansovereignty/fraudperfecttitle.html

Finally, for those who think Hawaii is America, have a read, this pretty much says it all. It's not negative, but it does outline the issue that blood is thicker than water, and it will generally trump any legal matters over there. http://mauinow.com/2012/01/13/opinion-hawaii-is-not-america/.

Hawaii is a beautiful place, but if I do consider to live there in the future, I'd apply the same cautions I'd apply to moving to Mexico or Costa Rica. I would never be a true local, and while Hawaii is not a third world country, it's definitely not like living on the mainland either.

[Dr. George]

Did you know that "Kona Coffee" used to contain about 1% Kona grown coffee? Complaints lead the Hawaiian legislature to pass a law requiring that Kona coffee labels require 10% kona coffee. This is laughable.

Axel - As a Kona Coffee grower let me set the record straight. Kona coffee growers do not want anything other than 100% Kona coffee products and labeling - Anything less adulterates the brand and is bad news for the Kona folks who have a very special and quality product. The State has legally defined regions that can bear the Kona name and very strict quality requirements for grading. It is the big distributors in Honolulu with the deep pockets and influence in the legislature who see blending Kona coffee as a profitable approach to getting more dollars for their non-Kona grown beans. Us Kona folks are constantly battling this in the legislature, fought for the truth in labeling to require disclosure of a blended product, and would be happy to have the name Kona Coffee restricted to only 100% Kona grown coffee beans. Look for products with 100% Kona Coffee on the label and that's what you will be getting.

(BTW - we have fresh roasted Estate Grown 100% Kona Coffee available for $28/lb plus shipping - send me a PM if you are interested ) - gmp

[humangenomaproject]

The world is a big place. Why limit your options? Peter is in Guatemala. That's closer to California than Hawaii and I'm sure he can grow just as many palms. Learning another language is the best thing you can do for your brain to avoid getting Alzheimers so that's another plus for retiring in Latin America. Here in Costa Rica, I have a full time gardener that puts me back $2.50 per hour so services are where you really win as retirees generally consume more services (health care, maid, gardener) than goods as peak consumption of goods generally occurs between ages 46-54. I had a crown put in recently for $125. The dentist office was clean and had all the up to date machines and the dentist spoke perfect English. There are hospitals here that are surrounded by hotels whose clients are there specifically for medical tourism (the savings pays for the trip several multiples over). I have organic veggies, meats and eggs delivered to my house at a very cheap price and really only pay up on imported (usually processed) foods that I can frankly do without (even though CR is third world, life expectancy is about even with the US). As a plus to many there is no island fever to worry about (although my step sister once asked me how big the 'island' of Costa Rica is). I can get to Panama in two hours and as far as beaches go there are too many options to list and there is often nobody around (with GREAT surf). I DO miss Trader Joe's though (the cheese here sucks).

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Did you know that "Kona Coffee" used to contain about 1% Kona grown coffee? Complaints lead the Hawaiian legislature to pass a law requiring that Kona coffee labels require 10% kona coffee. This is laughable.

Axel - As a Kona Coffee grower let me set the record straight. Kona coffee growers do not want anything other than 100% Kona coffee products and labeling - Anything less adulterates the brand and is bad news for the Kona folks who have a very special and quality product. The State has legally defined regions that can bear the Kona name and very strict quality requirements for grading. It is the big distributors in Honolulu with the deep pockets and influence in the legislature who see blending Kona coffee as a profitable approach to getting more dollars for their non-Kona grown beans. Us Kona folks are constantly battling this in the legislature, fought for the truth in labeling to require disclosure of a blended product, and would be happy to have the name Kona Coffee restricted to only 100% Kona grown coffee beans. Look for products with 100% Kona Coffee on the label and that's what you will be getting.

(BTW - we have fresh roasted Estate Grown 100% Kona Coffee available for $28/lb plus shipping - send me a PM if you are interested ) - gmp

George, we have a wholesale source in Kona for the 100% grown Kona coffee and are selling it here at our B&B in Santa Cruz. (I won't say how much I paid.) it's some of the best coffee on the planet!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

The world is a big place. Why limit your options? Peter is in Guatemala. That's closer to California than Hawaii and I'm sure he can grow just as many palms. Learning another language is the best thing you can do for your brain to avoid getting Alzheimers so that's another plus for retiring in Latin America. Here in Costa Rica, I have a full time gardener that puts me back $2.50 per hour so services are where you really win as retirees generally consume more services (health care, maid, gardener) than goods as peak consumption of goods generally occurs between ages 46-54. I had a crown put in recently for $125. The dentist office was clean and had all the up to date machines and the dentist spoke perfect English. There are hospitals here that are surrounded by hotels whose clients are there specifically for medical tourism (the savings pays for the trip several multiples over). I have organic veggies, meats and eggs delivered to my house at a very cheap price and really only pay up on imported (usually processed) foods that I can frankly do without (even though CR is third world, life expectancy is about even with the US). As a plus to many there is no island fever to worry about (although my step sister once asked me how big the 'island' of Costa Rica is). I can get to Panama in two hours and as far as beaches go there are too many options to list and there is often nobody around (with GREAT surf). I DO miss Trader Joe's though (the cheese here sucks).

Costa Rica would be a wonderful option! We love both Nosara and Arenal, and the Costa Rica plain-clothed tourist police (http://www.enchanting-costarica.com/hot-news/costa-rica-commits-to-safe-tourism-with-tourist-police/) does a much better job at making sure foreigners are safe. We really enjoy it there, and yes, the language and culture would be a big plus. We spent our honeymoon in Costa Rica! Maybe I can send you some Trader Joe's cheese.

[Dr. George]

Did you know that "Kona Coffee" used to contain about 1% Kona grown coffee? Complaints lead the Hawaiian legislature to pass a law requiring that Kona coffee labels require 10% kona coffee. This is laughable.

Axel - As a Kona Coffee grower let me set the record straight. Kona coffee growers do not want anything other than 100% Kona coffee products and labeling - Anything less adulterates the brand and is bad news for the Kona folks who have a very special and quality product. The State has legally defined regions that can bear the Kona name and very strict quality requirements for grading. It is the big distributors in Honolulu with the deep pockets and influence in the legislature who see blending Kona coffee as a profitable approach to getting more dollars for their non-Kona grown beans. Us Kona folks are constantly battling this in the legislature, fought for the truth in labeling to require disclosure of a blended product, and would be happy to have the name Kona Coffee restricted to only 100% Kona grown coffee beans. Look for products with 100% Kona Coffee on the label and that's what you will be getting.

(BTW - we have fresh roasted Estate Grown 100% Kona Coffee available for $28/lb plus shipping - send me a PM if you are interested ) - gmp

George, we have a wholesale source in Kona for the 100% grown Kona coffee and are selling it here at our B&B in Santa Cruz. (I won't say how much I paid.) it's some of the best coffee on the planet!

Good for you! - gmp

[Really full garden]

I rarely post anymore on PT but this topic moved me. Hawaii has been on my radar for decades. It is my "Plan B" in the event I need to flee Guatemala.I dont think anyone should move based on the number of palm species that can be grown.It should be a quality of life issue.This varies from person to person.

There are problems everywhere ,thats life.

[humangenomaproject]

Scott, Your heliconia in your avatar is amazing. Is it Pogonantha or a Ramonensis variety? Your elevation probably affords you the ability to grow most varieties. I'm at 550 feet and many of the cool species (such as Griggsiana) will rot out. I have about 120 varieties now and realize that these plants are masochists (the more trash you throw at them the better they do - I just threw a milk carton on one the other day and it looks better than ever).

[colin Peters]

Axel, Hawaii does have its problems. There is no pefect place, IMO. My boys go to private school for a reason. I feel more than blessed to be able

to send them to one of the best in the country. There are places here I do not go and hang around,. But, I feel safe where we live, and

even though I and my boys are haole looking, I feel safe. No worse than in Seattle, and Tim they call you Uncle, because it is respect and you are one

of the nicest and most genuine people I have ever met, I am proud to know you.

With very much Aloha

Colin

[Really full garden]

Scott, Your heliconia in your avatar is amazing. Is it Pogonantha or a Ramonensis variety? Your elevation probably affords you the ability to grow most varieties. I'm at 550 feet and many of the cool species (such as Griggsiana) will rot out. I have about 120 varieties now and realize that these plants are masochists (the more trash you throw at them the better they do - I just threw a milk carton on one the other day and it looks better than ever).

It is a H.ramonensis.I am fortunate to live at the perfect altitude for most heliconias.It can be a little gloomy at this altitude.We are often covered in fog and mist.

[ghar41]

I think that's great that many of you who live in Hawaii see the place through rose colored glasses. I did encounter a lot of Aloha spirit too. We went to black sands beach beyond South Point and a Hawaiian lady was selling banana bread, mochi and cookies. It was the end of the day and as she packed up, she loaded us with goodies and refused to accept any of our money. All she said is "please come back and visit Hawaii".

But with a kid, we had to do some research. For those interested in the rest of the story, these are the reasons my wife says no to Hawaii. Here are some links for people to look at. These issues have been confirmed to me by many people who live there, and they choose to live there because these are things that don't really affect them.

The biggest issue: School violence: the last day of school in Hawaii is called "Kill a Haole day". Would you want to send your kids to school to be bullied? Not me. This was even outlined in a book called "So you want to move to Hawaii". But you can find plenty of press on this as well. See for example http://www.hawaiireporter.com/bullying-in-hawaii-a-state-of-denial/123

White children in our schools are harassed, intimidated, and physically abused. The last school day of the year in Hawaii, for example, is traditionally called “kill a haole day”... Anti-white sentiments such as these have been more than 200 years in the making. The pivotal event occurred when American and European businessmen, backed by U.S. military forces, overthrew Hawaii's monarch in 1893 and placed her under house arrest two years later. The United States annexed the islands as a territory in 1898, and they became a state in 1959.

Little wonder then that as Hawaii prepares to observe the 50th anniversary of becoming the 50th state on Aug. 21, it will a muted celebration, devoid of parades or fireworks.

Our kid is the cutest blondest California towhead you can imagine. He'd get harassed like crazy.

Burglaries:

http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/sections/news/local-news/burglaries-surge-big-island.html

Racism and police and judges siding against mainlanders:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/fall/prejudice-in-paradise

Celia Padron went on a Hawaiian vacation last year, lured by the prospect of beautiful beaches and friendly people. She, her husband and two teenage daughters enjoyed the black sand beach at Makena State Park on Maui. But a Hawaiian girl accosted her two teenage daughters, saying, "Go back to the mainland" and "Take your white ass off our beaches," says Padron, a pediatric gastroenterologist in New Jersey.

When her husband, 68 at the time, stepped between the girls, three young Hawaiian men slammed him against a vehicle, cutting his ear, and choked and punched him, Padron says. Police officers persuaded the Padrons not to press charges, saying it would be expensive for them to return for court appearances and a Hawaiian judge would side with the Hawaiian assailants, the doctor contends.

Macadamia Fraud:

http://www.naturalnews.com/021805_macadamia_nuts_mac.html

Kona coffee fraud:

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/two-bills-address-consumer-fraud-in-hawaii-coffee-labeling/123

Real Estate fraud:

http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/hawaiiansovereignty/fraudperfecttitle.html

Finally, for those who think Hawaii is America, have a read, this pretty much says it all. It's not negative, but it does outline the issue that blood is thicker than water, and it will generally trump any legal matters over there. http://mauinow.com/2012/01/13/opinion-hawaii-is-not-america/.

Hawaii is a beautiful place, but if I do consider to live there in the future, I'd apply the same cautions I'd apply to moving to Mexico or Costa Rica. I would never be a true local, and while Hawaii is not a third world country, it's definitely not like living on the mainland either.

I went to elementary school in Kailua, Oahu back in the 1970's. I was also a blonde haired haole and caught my share of teasing, but it was never extreme save the times I was bullied out of the surf when the sets came in. Maybe it's worse now; racism exists everywhere, and is wrong in every form.

One note on the ridiculousness of racism. My mother is a 4th generation "hawaiian" of portuguese descent. She does not meet the generational requirements to be deemed a hawaiian . Interestingly, when she first came to the mainland in the 1950's her fair complexion was deeply tanned prompting airline personal to seat her in the rear of the airplane on her flight to St. Louis Mo. A year later when she returned home, her tan had faded and she was allowed to sit in the front!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel, Hawaii does have its problems. There is no pefect place, IMO. My boys go to private school for a reason. I feel more than blessed to be able

to send them to one of the best in the country. There are places here I do not go and hang around,. But, I feel safe where we live, and

even though I and my boys are haole looking, I feel safe. No worse than in Seattle, and Tim they call you Uncle, because it is respect and you are one

of the nicest and most genuine people I have ever met, I am proud to know you.

With very much Aloha

Colin

I agree, none of the stuff I mentioned actually would have deterred me from moving to Hawaii. The school is an issue, but I would find ways to work around it. On the Big Island, the beaches and the weather and closeness of services all draw me to Kona as opposed to Hilo. Best palm growing area IMHO is Hamakua, because there's both soil and rainfall and water streams. I would have been willing to make the sacrifice of beaches and services for the right Hamakua spot on a waterfall. Alas one can't have everything! I wouldn't trade Santa Cruz County for anything during the warm season. but the months from thanksgiving through about mid February would be nicer spent in Kona.

[realarch]

Rose colored glasses? That borders on insulting. Those of us that live here have no illusions about the realities of this place.

Colin, thanks for the compliment, I'm speechless. Back at you man.

Tim

[bgl]

And comparing crime in Hawaii with Costa Rica, wow, INTERESTING! That made me think of the Biennial in 2008. I went out for a morning run every day. Through a couple of pretty nice neighborhoods, that would have been considered fairly average suburbs in most US cities, or maybe just slightly above average. All the houses had tall walls surrounding them with broken glass and barbed wire on top, wrought iron fence protecting all the windows AND an armed guard patrolling the neighborhood. By comparison, Hawaii sounds like a pretty good option to me....

[Kim]

Maybe I should sell my property on the Big Island and move to Santa Cruz -- no crime, no fraud, no racism, no bullying in the schools, all the real estate people are honest, all the beaches are white sand*, all the Kona coffee is 100% -- sounds like paradise on earth! And with Trader Joe's, cheap milk, and an amazing selection of food and merchandise on all levels! And drought and tiny palms! Heck yeah! Let's go! Tell me who is wearing the rose-colored glasses again? Sorry Axel, it's my wicked alter ego at work. You and your family are quite content where you live now; Voltaire would approve. Each must cultivate his own garden. You've checked out the dream, and it's not really your dream after all. Now you know. Do come visit again, you will be welcome.

*Nevermind the hypothermia-inducing water temperature

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Rose colored glasses? That borders on insulting. Those of us that live here have no illusions about the realities of this place.

Colin, thanks for the compliment, I'm speechless. Back at you man.

Tim

No insult was intended, rose colored glasses simply means you think everything is perfect and you don't see any of the downsides. There are downsides wherever you live.

And comparing crime in Hawaii with Costa Rica, wow, INTERESTING! That made me think of the Biennial in 2008. I went out for a morning run every day. Through a couple of pretty nice neighborhoods, that would have been considered fairly average suburbs in most US cities, or maybe just slightly above average. All the houses had tall walls surrounding them with broken glass and barbed wire on top, wrought iron fence protecting all the windows AND an armed guard patrolling the neighborhood. By comparison, Hawaii sounds like a pretty good option to me....

Don't jump to conclusions, there was NOTHING in my comment about Costa Rica that compared Hawaii to Costa Rica. I was actually comparing Costa Rica with other third world Countries. I feel safer in Costa Rica than in Mexico.

There's nothing wrong with looking at both pros and cons about living anywhere. You don't have to take it personally. There are plenty of downsides living in Santa Cruz, I've lived here many years and my honeymoon is over. Kim, maybe if you lived there full time, you'd also eventually reach the end of your honeymoon with Hawaii. We all make our choices and accept tradeoffs. No big deal.

[doranakandawatta]

I feel safer in Costa Rica than in Mexico.

I feel safer in Doranakanda's village than in Geneva, palms agree … if rain comes...

[bgl]

Costa Rica would be a wonderful option! We love both Nosara and Arenal, and the Costa Rica plain-clothed tourist police (http://www.enchanting-costarica.com/hot-news/costa-rica-commits-to-safe-tourism-with-tourist-police/) does a much better job at making sure foreigners are safe. We really enjoy it there, and yes, the language and culture would be a big plus. We spent our honeymoon in Costa Rica! Maybe I can send you some Trader Joe's cheese.

Well, the armed guards I saw certainly weren't "plain-clothed tourist police" so maybe we are talking about different things. But I am guessing that the people who live in those walled-in compounds probably feel pretty safe while they are in their prison like homes, with an armed guard posted outside. For some weird reason, the relaxed and easygoing atmosphere here in Puna just appeals to me a tad more than living in fear some place else, whether it's Costa Rica or Mexico or wherever. I know, different priorities!

[Dypsisdean]

I have to comment again - on the crime issue.

1) My house hasn't been locked in ten years. But I have started to lock my car more. We get the crime report every week for the West side of the island, and there is about a half dozen petty theft reports from vehicles or homes/condos, and one or two vehicle thefts - for the entire week - and the entire 100 mile coastline of the west side.

2) Violent crime is almost non-existent, and is relegated almost exclusively to a few domestic alcohol fueled incidents. In the last ten years there have been only two reported beach incidents that could have been seen as either local against haole or local against tourist, "fights." And they made the front page of the local paper because they were such "big news." And I can almost guarantee you there was alcohol involved, probably by both "sides," and there is/was no telling who said what, or who provoked who.

However, if you want to witness some local against "outsider" violent crime, I can tell you that it would be very easy to find. I'll tell you where to go, who to walk up to, and exactly what to say - and you can witness it first hand.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I have to comment again - on the crime issue.

1) My house hasn't been locked in ten years. But I have started to lock my car more. We get the crime report every week for the West side of the island, and there is about a half dozen petty theft reports from vehicles or homes/condos, and one or two vehicle thefts - for the entire week - and the entire 100 mile coastline of the west side.

2) Violent crime is almost non-existent, and is relegated almost exclusively to a few domestic alcohol fueled incidents. In the last ten years there have been only two reported beach incidents that could have been seen as either local against haole or local against tourist, "fights." And they made the front page of the local paper because they were such "big news." And I can almost guarantee you there was alcohol involved, probably by both "sides," and there is/was no telling who said what, or who provoked who.

However, if you want to witness some local against "outsider" violent crime, I can tell you that it would be very easy to find. I'll tell you where to go, who to walk up to, and exactly what to say - and you can witness it first hand.

I actually heard the same thing regarding violent crime - super low on the island, it's just the burglaries and petty theft that are rather high on the East side and even the local real estate agents go through the trouble to explain this. Kona has a much lower rate of petty crime, but it might be on the rise with the new saddle road, which makes Kona more accessible to the meth heads.

[Gtlevine]

I've tried to buy there as well and I would have no problem with the lifestyle. But I have accepted my fate (Which is still a very good one), living in a great city, San Diego. It was my wife that made the decision for me, she hates Hawaii for all the reasons you mentioned and a few more.

Gary

[humangenomaproject]

Costa Rica would be a wonderful option! We love both Nosara and Arenal, and the Costa Rica plain-clothed tourist police (http://www.enchanting-costarica.com/hot-news/costa-rica-commits-to-safe-tourism-with-tourist-police/) does a much better job at making sure foreigners are safe. We really enjoy it there, and yes, the language and culture would be a big plus. We spent our honeymoon in Costa Rica! Maybe I can send you some Trader Joe's cheese.

Well, the armed guards I saw certainly weren't "plain-clothed tourist police" so maybe we are talking about different things. But I am guessing that the people who live in those walled-in compounds probably feel pretty safe while they are in their prison like homes, with an armed guard posted outside. For some weird reason, the relaxed and easygoing atmosphere here in Puna just appeals to me a tad more than living in fear some place else, whether it's Costa Rica or Mexico or wherever. I know, different priorities!

In any big city (like San Jose or Alajuela which you probably saw when the biennial happened) there are bars and armed guards. Violent crime is not off the charts (like Guatemala, El Salvador or Honduras). Murders are roughly twice what they are per capita in the total US (http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Murder-rate#2009). What you do have to worry about is petty theft. Robberies are out of control and you really need a good camera system that gives you alerts in real time or have someone on your property at all times. This is feasible due to the low labor cost (my gardener lives on the property and either he or I are on the property at all times for which in exchange he gets a small house rent free). It helps to realize that the median wage per year here is about $6000 (last I checked). You would expect more theft but I would strongly disagree with lumping Costa Rica in with Mexico (or any other Central American country save Panama) regarding crime. They are much less prone to violence and the armed guards are mostly there to deter theft. Fortunately I live in the Southern zone (near the surfing hamlet of Dominical) and it is very tranquilo. I don't live in a walled compound and I am not living in fear as I only see armed guards at the banks down here. I also think it is harder to lump a whole country vs. Hawaii as the cities tend to skew the statistics. I get four feet of trunk a year on my Bentinkias/A. Calapparias which of course is a MAJOR benefit as well. Yep, pretty happy here.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I've tried to buy there as well and I would have no problem with the lifestyle. But I have accepted my fate (Which is still a very good one), living in a great city, San Diego. It was my wife that made the decision for me, she hates Hawaii for all the reasons you mentioned and a few more.

Gary

yeah, I figured I wasn't alone. He he, it's true, my wife is much less fond of Hawaii than I am. She really didn't like the Big Island. But if we had $1.5M to fork out for a place in Hanalei, she'd be all for doing it.

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

There's nothing wrong with looking at both pros and cons about living anywhere. You don't have to take it personally. There are plenty of downsides living in Santa Cruz, I've lived here many years and my honeymoon is over. Kim, maybe if you lived there full time, you'd also eventually reach the end of your honeymoon with Hawaii. We all make our choices and accept tradeoffs. No big deal.

Soooo true.

Hawaii can be heaven or it can be hell. Though a person should never be judged by race.

Your links above were really good examples.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

I too am considering a move to Havaikii. I don't have skool age kids so that issue does not bother me. There might be some resistance (for lack of a better word) to outsiders, but that is to be expected in any small town rural atmosphere and it is usually overcome with the right attitude.

The three things that concern me are:

High electric costs (looking for property with running stream and enough drop for mini hydro plant)

state income tax (not really a way around that, or is there?)

politics are different from mine (OK, OK, EVERYBODY'S politics are different from mine, sheessh!)

[Gonzer]

And what exactly is the job market like over there? Kinda hard to up and leave behind a vested job that will make you comfy in your waning years.

[Rafael]

Wow, now i was thinking about moving to Haway

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

And what exactly is the job market like over there? Kinda hard to up and leave behind a vested job that will make you comfy in your waning years.

For most people, Hawaii is retirement. For some, it's the ability to be mobile. I can work from anywhere, so it doesn't matter where I am, as long as there is a reliable internet connection. Tahiti would be a cool place to work from.