"Landscaping block"...where would my palms fit best into my landscape? (Pictures)

[jfrye01@live.com]

Hello all;) I'm having a little bit of a "landscaping block", I've visited hundreds and hundreds of landscaping websites, but I can't really visualize which plants would like nice in various positions around my house...Here's my collection (And this is it, I won't be buying anymore for a while)...Two windmills (one a foot tall, the other 4 feet tall), a butia (5 feet tall), two washingtonia filibusta (two feet tall), 5 sabal minors (Two McCurtain, three unidentified, all strap-lings), and a European fan palm...I'm thinking I want the Washies on the corners of the house, but I really don't know...I would greatly appreciate any and all ideas;) Thanks everyone!

Here's my home and yard (North is to the left in all pictures, this side of the house faces west):

North yard:

South yard:

[Jeff Searle]

I don't want to discourage you, but from the looks of your property it doesn't appear you have any plants established yet. No hardwood trees, shrubs, accent plants or groundcover. So planting the handful of palms you mentioned, their going to be lost. Your palms once established over the years will really stand out, but you need to start thinking about planting some other trees and plants as well.

[MattyB]

Getting started on a blank canvas is very hard to do, but as you get more and more things in it becomes easier because the garden begins to speak to you and tell you where things want to go. Here's how I started my garden and it worked really well for me.

1. Decide where your roads are going to be. Having access for a truck to dump mulch and haul plant and landscaping material in is a necessity. Take some pavement paint and mark out your access road that will circumnavigate the property. Looks like you have a lot of space so if a truck doesn't have to do a 3 point turn then that's ideal.

2. Next you'll want to decide where your foot paths are going to be. Usually after walking around the property a lot you end up taking certain paths anyways because it's the easiest way to get from one point to another. So, make some of those direct foot paths because they'll come in handy when you're working so you can get around easily. And then make some paths that wander and meander. Again, mark this all out with paint, or dig them in with a shovel, or use string/stakes, etc.

3. Then the areas you have left are blocks of planters or general areas for garden stuff. Think about what your sun angles are and devise a strategy for planting. For example you probably don't want to put anything evergreen and tall on the southside of your house because it'll block all your warming winter sun. Don't plant huge shade trees on the west side of an area if that area is going to have sun loving plants because eventually you'll shade out your sun lovers.

Hope that helps a little.

[Walter John]

Important - Make it fun, it sure looks like it will be, things will evolve..Good luck.

[Palmdude]

Great advice guys! That's the way to go! I always start with the roads and pathways like Matt says then all your beds are implied and you can design one area at a time and it's no longer so overwhelming trying to imagine the whole picture all at once. Take your time, have fun and start getting friendly with the people who have established gardens in your area. Us gardeners like to share! Also drive around and see what people are growing so you get ideas and see what performs well in your area. If you're like me you might even knock on their door introduce yourself and tell them how great their garden is. Other gardeners in your area can be a wealth of information and you might make a few lifelong friends ........ Or you might get shot! Lol

[jfrye01@live.com]

I don't want to discourage you, but from the looks of your property it doesn't appear you have any plants established yet. No hardwood trees, shrubs, accent plants or groundcover. So planting the handful of palms you mentioned, their going to be lost. Your palms once established over the years will really stand out, but you need to start thinking about planting some other trees and plants as well.

That's kinda what I was afraid of:/ However, my intentions are to build greenhouse-like structures that can be easily placed over the plants while they are small (<15 feet or so)

Getting started on a blank canvas is very hard to do, but as you get more and more things in it becomes easier because the garden begins to speak to you and tell you where things want to go. Here's how I started my garden and it worked really well for me.

1. Decide where your roads are going to be. Having access for a truck to dump mulch and haul plant and landscaping material in is a necessity. Take some pavement paint and mark out your access road that will circumnavigate the property. Looks like you have a lot of space so if a truck doesn't have to do a 3 point turn then that's ideal.

2. Next you'll want to decide where your foot paths are going to be. Usually after walking around the property a lot you end up taking certain paths anyways because it's the easiest way to get from one point to another. So, make some of those direct foot paths because they'll come in handy when you're working so you can get around easily. And then make some paths that wander and meander. Again, mark this all out with paint, or dig them in with a shovel, or use string/stakes, etc.

3. Then the areas you have left are blocks of planters or general areas for garden stuff. Think about what your sun angles are and devise a strategy for planting. For example you probably don't want to put anything evergreen and tall on the southside of your house because it'll block all your warming winter sun. Don't plant huge shade trees on the west side of an area if that area is going to have sun loving plants because eventually you'll shade out your sun lovers.

Hope that helps a little.

Good points, thanks! I actually didn't even think of any of that...being in zone 6b (Actually, according to some USDA folks in Wichita, we have been upgraded to zone 7A), there aren't many people growing palms around here, and those that are just grow Sabals and Trachies...so I don't have a whole lot of examples to follow around here:P

Important - Make it fun, it sure looks like it will be, things will evolve..Good luck.

Thanks! It's a very addictive hobby, and every time I drive through Dallas (More palms than I've ever seen for a city that far north!), I get more and more inspired!

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

-Jacob in Kansas (Now zone 7A)

[jfrye01@live.com]

Great advice guys! That's the way to go! I always start with the roads and pathways like Matt says then all your beds are implied and you can design one area at a time and it's no longer so overwhelming trying to imagine the whole picture all at once. Take your time, have fun and start getting friendly with the people who have established gardens in your area. Us gardeners like to share! Also drive around and see what people are growing so you get ideas and see what performs well in your area. If you're like me you might even knock on their door introduce yourself and tell them how great their garden is. Other gardeners in your area can be a wealth of information and you might make a few lifelong friends ........ Or you might get shot! Lol

Haha! I probably would get shot around here! Unfortunately, there aren't many palms up here in the Land of Dorothy (ugh I hate Wizard of Oz, Kansas isn't really like that!), there are several in Wichita, but you really have to look for them...

[Palmdude]

My garden up north is probably closer to what you'll be doing in Kansas and might give you some ideas on design and I imagine you can grow all of the same stuff along with your palms I admire the fact that your starting out at a young age! That's fantastic! Also maybe join a garden club, the little old ladies will eat you right up and fill your beds with nice plants! Lol

[Palmdude]

[jfrye01@live.com]

Wow!! Amazing gardens, Palmdude!! Thanks for sharing!

[Palmdude]

So just to give you an idea that garden was only about 7 or 8 years old and there was nothing there just sand and then woods no grass no gardens etc. So things can get whipped into shape pretty quickly

[Palmdude]

I'd recommend starting with your foundation plantings and beds around the house first and then expanding out from there. Go with some evergreen shrubs that will look good all year long. Start with the areas on either side of the front door could be a great spot for your windmill for example in front of a row of evergreen shrubs that you can trim up to look nice and manicured

[Sabal Steve]

How much longer do you have before your flight training is over, and you are able to fly commercially?

[jfrye01@live.com]

How much longer do you have before your flight training is over, and you are able to fly commercially?

I have my private certificate, I'm about 80 hours short of my commercial...I'm building hours quickly though!

[Palmdude]

You're quite the adventurer! Flying planes and chasing tornados! My friend was driving through Kansas on his way to California and was chased down the highway by a huge tornado. He said he saw cows in the air and a huge barn get sucked up and torn to shreads in his rear view mirror! He was still visibly in shock when I saw him arrive in California and practically hyperventilating as he retold the story as if he was experiencing it all over again! I had another horrified friend arrive at a party in Sarasota in more or less the same condition after being chased down the street in Clearwater FL it mangled a subway and tore the balcony's off of some condos on the beach. I saw the aftermath yikes!

[jfrye01@live.com]

You're quite the adventurer! Flying planes and chasing tornados! My friend was driving through Kansas on his way to California and was chased down the highway by a huge tornado. He said he saw cows in the air and a huge barn get sucked up and torn to shreads in his rear view mirror! He was still visibly in shock when I saw him arrive in California and practically hyperventilating as he retold the story as if he was experiencing it all over again! I had another horrified friend arrive at a party in Sarasota in more or less the same condition after being chased down the street in Clearwater FL it mangled a subway and tore the balcony's off of some condos on the beach. I saw the aftermath yikes!

Crazy!! I've only seen one tornado, and I had to drive 100 miles to see it..lol tornadoes are way more common in Western Kansas than here in the east...I gotta admit, I had alterior motives for driving to Texas last week, my brother wanted to go tornado chasing, I was scouting for washies;) Hahaha;) We saw a nice supercell and I saw plenty of sabals and washies, so it was successful for both of us;)

[jfrye01@live.com]

I'm thinking about sticking the Butia in the middle of the south yard as a specimen palm, European fan palm in that front flower bed, and if the Trachy would do well with afternoon sun (doubt it, it's SOO hot here in summer), I'd put it on that northeast corner and then stick the washies somewhere else...decisions, decisions, decisions...haha

[Sabal Steve]

How much longer do you have before your flight training is over, and you are able to fly commercially?

I have my private certificate, I'm about 80 hours short of my commercial...I'm building hours quickly though!

Hint, hint...

[jfrye01@live.com]

How much longer do you have before your flight training is over, and you are able to fly commercially?

I have my private certificate, I'm about 80 hours short of my commercial...I'm building hours quickly though!

Hint, hint...

Lol...I guess I'm confused!

[Sabal Steve]

How much longer do you have before your flight training is over, and you are able to fly commercially?

I have my private certificate, I'm about 80 hours short of my commercial...I'm building hours quickly though!

Hint, hint...

Lol...I guess I'm confused!

Have you looked into the job market in California and Florida, and into state certifications and licensing in these places? Are you set on staying in Kansas? I hope that this doesn't come out the wrong way, but if you have a willingness to move, the sooner the better. The quality of life is much better out here (I used to live in the midwest), and while it's expensive, it is much more obtainable than most sources will lead you to believe. Flordia is even cheaper. The only regret that I have os movjng to a more centrally located area of the city as opposed to just on the outskirts where things are half the price and about an extra 15-20 mins commute to downtown. With proper measures it will be possible to grow palms out there probably, but I think the heating costs will start to snowball. After those you won't be satisfied and you will want more and more new palms! Mark my words;)

[jfrye01@live.com]

Oh yeah, I'd love to get out of Kansas...I just have to finish college first. My parents would disown me if I dropped out of college...I often fantasize about living in a warmer climate with my own airstrip, and REAL palms (cocos, royals, phoenix,) instead of the "uglier" hardy palms;) I've never been to Cali, but I have spent tons of time in S. Florida...

Edit: By ugly, I'm referring to needles and other shrubby palms...I absolutely love my Trachy, Sabals, Butia, and Washies;)

Edited March 24, 2014 by jfrye01@live.com

[Sabal Steve]

One things for sure, when you do take the leap, it will be obvious that YOU AREN'T IN KANSAS ANYMORE! Sounds like you have a good strategy. One other thing that might be fun would be to get some seed of less hardy/rare/slow growing stuff to grow now to get a head start on things. I wish that I had done that and had a few things ready to go. Maybe some 9A stuff just incase you are in a colder region? Like a Jubaea or Sabal sp.?

[Sabal Steve]

Most of the stuff that you are growing now will be available in large containers for real cheap out here. In cali you can probably get 24" boxed butias for $100.

[jfrye01@live.com]

Well, it's funny how life changes your plans, just today, a friend of mine who works at Cessna told me he may be able to get me in the door at Cessna, which, as you probably know, is headquartered in Wichita...so if that's the case, looks like I'm stuck in zone 7 for the time being...Darn.

Sabal Steve: If I am indeed stuck here in Wichita, what would be the best trunking sabal to grow? Now, I know they're all a very big gamble here, but if I am indeed stuck here, what would be the best one to experiment with in terms of cold hardiness? S. palmetto? S. domingensis? Other?

Edited March 24, 2014 by jfrye01@live.com

[Sabal Steve]

Well, it's funny how life changes your plans, just today, a friend of mine who works at Cessna told me he may be able to get me in the door at Cessna, which, as you probably know, is headquartered in Wichita...so if that's the case, looks like I'm stuck in zone 7 for the time being...Darn.

Sabal Steve: If I am indeed stuck here in Wichita, what would be the best trunking sabal to grow? Now, I know they're all a very big gamble here, but if I am indeed stuck here, what would be the best one to experiment with in terms of cold hardiness? S. palmetto? S. domingensis? Other?

Probably not S. palmetto, and no-go on S. domingensis. Both would get way too large to protect. Truthfully, I'm not sure that any would make it, but maybe try S. birmingham - there have been reports to -4F. It's real slow.... There's also a small trunking S. minor variety called S. louisiana that should be pretty hardy.

[jfrye01@live.com]

Yeah, I didn't think S. palmetto would be an option here...especially since it's only hardy to 10F...it got down to 5F briefly a couple times this year...on a normal year, it often drops to 10F at least a couple times...so a palmetto would probably be gone in a couple years at most...

[Sabal Steve]

Yeah, I didn't think S. palmetto would be an option here...especially since it's only hardy to 10F...it got down to 5F briefly a couple times this year...on a normal year, it often drops to 10F at least a couple times...so a palmetto would probably be gone in a couple years at most...

Theres too many variables when figuring the hardiness of the species, and although I agree with you on the 10F mark for S. palmetto, I wouldn't be surprised about it surviving 0F for a brief time. One thing is for sure though, it will defoliate to some extent , if not die, and it wont look pretty.

Here's a link I think you will enjoy - http://www.garysnursery.com/SabalBirmingham.html

The other topics on the site will have useful info too.

[jfrye01@live.com]

Thanks for the link!! Unfortunately, much to the consternation of my bank account, I have a serious zone pushing issue...I can't help but try to grow zone 8 and 9 palms here in zone 7 (they say I'm in zone 7 now, I'd still call it a zone 6, especially after this winter!)...I'm gonna plant what I have (Trachycarpus, butia, sabal minors, Washingtonia) with heavy protection and what makes it, makes it. What dies, dies...if I can find a sabal really really cheap, I may be forced to experiment, even knowing the thing will ultimately die...I know I'm not the only one who has this problem;) However, if the majority of my palms survive winter 2014/2015, next year, I will buy some (2 or 3) sabal birmingham...

[jfrye01@live.com]

My favorite palm is my Trachy, weird I know, but it's probably because it's almost as tall as me with two feet of trunk or so...and I honestly don't think I have a good place to put it:/ The side and front yards drain well, but they are in direct sunlight in the summer. The backyard has a good amount of shade, but it is 90% clay and it turns into a swamp after a rain...even grass grows intermittently back there...

[Sabal Steve]

I wouldn't worry about the soil. It will take a little time, but it can be amended - I'll let more experienced growers chime in on the best way of doing this. I haven't had the pleasure of growing birmingham personally, but it is certainly among the most cold hardy trunking palms out there. Your palms will het hardier with size, and you should be able to protect them for a number of years.

[jfrye01@live.com]

Yeah, I've read several ways to do it on here, I'm not worried about the soil there so much as I am concerned with the way that all the water in the yard pools back there...Maybe I'll just do what my original plan was, plant the trachy on the southwest corner of the house and hope it gets enough shade from the house during the late afternoon, when the sun is more in the north....That way, it will also receive winter light.

[stevethegator]

Yeah, I didn't think S. palmetto would be an option here...especially since it's only hardy to 10F...it got down to 5F briefly a couple times this year...on a normal year, it often drops to 10F at least a couple times...so a palmetto would probably be gone in a couple years at most...

No way. Palmettos survived this winter in Atlanta with minor damage, and there are a few that survived in central Alabama where it got down to -1.

On another hardy palm board, there was a recent post that had picture of a small palmetto next to a trunking tachy, and the trachy looked worse than the palmetto.

I'll admit, 5F in Atlanta is different than 5F in Kansas but palmetto is hardier than Butia (which are either dead or defoliated around here right now) and waaaaaay hardier than washingtonia

[Sabal Steve]

Small ones are cheap enough. Try em' all and let is know. If you are going down this route you might as well consider a Jubaea. They probably won't tolerate soggy soil, but are similar in hardiness to the other palms mentioned. Perhaps the "mazari" palm too. Chalk ut up to an experiment:)

[jfrye01@live.com]

Wow, that makes me really optimistic! Especially since I passed a place in Dallas that sold 20 ft Sabals for around $90! Might have to borrow my brother's truck and make a run to Dallas this week;) My Trachy was about $150, so I'm really trying to find the best place possible for it, I'm thinking by my vegetable garden, which is out in the open, but winter protection is gonna be boxes, so summer heat is what I'm most worried about. June-July-August often sees many days in the high 90s, even passing 100...those temps would shrivel a trachy in a day...:/

Edit: For winter protection on a palmetto, would it be wise to hurricane cut it and wrap the heart with Christmas lights and insulation ?

Edited March 26, 2014 by jfrye01@live.com

[stevethegator]

Probably not, palmettos don't take to defoliation as well as washies. They take two years to regrow a full crown after being hurricane cut for transplant in Florida. I'd just tie up the fronds and wrap it.

Oh and if you buy a trunked hurricane cut palmetto, plant it as early as possible in the spring and protect it really well with heat for the next couple of years, they take awhile to get established.

A local mosque planted some trunked palmettos at least three years ago and they look like crap right now, whereas the specimens that are established look good. Buying instant trunk is tempting but I'd go with the largest potted specimen you can and let it acclimate to your conditions

[Zeeth]

Oh yeah, I'd love to get out of Kansas...I just have to finish college first. My parents would disown me if I dropped out of college...I often fantasize about living in a warmer climate with my own airstrip, and REAL palms (cocos, royals, phoenix,) instead of the "uglier" hardy palms;) I've never been to Cali, but I have spent tons of time in S. Florida...

Edit: By ugly, I'm referring to needles and other shrubby palms...I absolutely love my Trachy, Sabals, Butia, and Washies;)

There's a subdivision in eastern Sarasota county called hidden river airpark that has it's own runway and 5 acre plots per house. Faith Bishock lives there actually.

[jfrye01@live.com]

Oh yeah, I'd love to get out of Kansas...I just have to finish college first. My parents would disown me if I dropped out of college...I often fantasize about living in a warmer climate with my own airstrip, and REAL palms (cocos, royals, phoenix,) instead of the "uglier" hardy palms;) I've never been to Cali, but I have spent tons of time in S. Florida...

Edit: By ugly, I'm referring to needles and other shrubby palms...I absolutely love my Trachy, Sabals, Butia, and Washies;)

There's a subdivision in eastern Sarasota county called hidden river airpark that has it's own runway and 5 acre plots per house. Faith Bishock lives there actually.

Well that would work!! I'm taking my Cessna to Key West this summer, a 9 or so hour flight from here, I might have to stop in on the way through!