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Livistonia Species List


Alicehunter2000

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As we did for Trachies, please list Livistonia species from coldest hardy to least hardy. Give two temps. ....one for first sign of damage and the second for death of the palm. Include both F. and C. temp. scales. It will be a nice reference thread for those wanting a quick list of possibilities for their particular climate.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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I've found by keeping in touch, and my PT observations, that Livistona are only be appreciated as of the last 7-10 years or so. I stand to be corrected on this statement. I've been injured more by Livistona than any other palm but they are still my fav fan palm.

I hope you get some replies though Dave, be very interesting to see.

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Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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I fear that any cold hardiness list will be inaccurate and contradictory for many reasons, the main one being that Livistona spss hybridize and in fact the performance of a reputedly genuine specimen may well be one of a hybrid! For instance I have one big decora and several smaller ones from different sources. The big one is simply big, because it grows many times faster than the other, but based on its performance during the 2004 and 2008 frost events, I am prone to say that decora would not withstand a -5 C. On the other hand, based on the performance of the other, smaller specimens, I am prone to say that decora would probably stand this low temp! Just to get an idea, what I am trying to say...

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Here in France, Livistona nitida is the most cold hardy, the only one untouched by -6°C./21°F on the french riviera.

Also the fastest growing in my very cool oceanic climate (average summer high is 21°C/70°F), much faster than australis!

Edited by Kelern

Z9b, Crozon peninsula, Brittany, the far west region of France

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Thanks Wal, I believe that people are just beginning to realize the cold hardiness of Livistonia species and for those who live in marginal climates it increases the number of palm species that can be grown. Besides, some of them look pretty tropical in appearance. Hard to beat the good ol' L. chinensis for tropical flavor.

Koeppen, you might be right, however in the States it doesn't appear that they hybridize to a large extent (at least not that is visable). Genetically maybe, but visually not so much. Really the only two that is commonly planted is L. chinensis and L. decora.

Ok, Kelern, let's use your info. to start things off. Feel free to (cut and paste) the following table to expand or correct the info.:

First Damage Death

L. nitida -6°C./21°F

L. decora -6°C./21°F

L. chinensis -3.3/26F

L. saribus

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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All Australian Livistona do fairly well for me, but the very best over all would be Livistona Decipiens "Decora". When I grew them from seed and planted them out they were known as Decipiens. Toby recommended them to me when I started growing palms many years ago. They can handle below 22 degrees but the tips will burn; I do not protect my established Livistona once they are above a five gallon size and have started producing more mature leaves. Great palms, I love them. They are thorny however but most hardy fan palms do have some armament. For me it has been one of my fastest most reliable fan palms; a better, faster grower than Washingtonia Robusta for me at least. I am sure that the opposite might be true for many growers. Marie will burn but will survive 22 or slightly below, but it is very interesting do to the maroon color of the leaves of juveniles. Australis is very hardy, supposedly the most hardy but my Nitida and especially my Decora have out performed them in my location. I have seedlings for some of the other species like Benthamii and carinensis but have not tried them yet. They are not suppose to be as hardy from reports however.

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I have not had a Livistona die yet do to cold and I have had Decora since 2000 and in the ground a few years afterward.

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My Livistona outside are Livistona saribus, L. Australis , L. Mullerii , L. Rigida, L. Decipiens-decora . L drudeiOnly thing I can add is Livistona saribus, L. Australis , L. Mullerii , L. Rigida, L. Decipiens-decora . L drudei, and L. fulva

Best regards

Ed

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Decora tend to be like Washingtonia sometimes; I agree. One tree might receive some damage while the one next to it might show no damage at all. They are still tough though on both counts and should be a solid 9A to 8B with some burn from time to time in 8B. Several spieces look so much alike that like you said if they hybrized it would be very difficult to tell them apart especially if they lean towards one parent or the other appearance wise.

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I have a fulva too Ed and I love it; though it is still small! It is really a beautiul palm but I am a huge fan of Livistona species anyway.

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All of these list you are getting in the various post like this are an incredible resource for Zone 9a gardeners. I hope that you are compiling into some kind of master document that you will then share out. Not that you are lacking something to do I am sure, but since a volunteer is needed and you started it, well,,,,,lol.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Decora tend to be like Washingtonia sometimes; I agree. One tree might receive some damage while the one next to it might show no damage at all. They are still tough though on both counts and should be a solid 9A to 8B with some burn from time to time in 8B. Several spieces look so much alike that like you said if they hybrized it would be very difficult to tell them apart especially if they lean towards one parent or the other appearance wise.

Exactly. I have two. One was completely unfazed by this winter. The other looks like poop. It certainly has no long term damage, just cosmetic.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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That is the same thing that I experienced Keith, my youngest one that is in the ground was undamaged while the next to oldest one had burnt leaf tips. I think that wind chill definitely has an effect on these species with ribbon like leaves. I might be wrong but it seems like the there was cold damage if exposed to wind, but it is minor and purely cosmetic.

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Of the ones I have experience with, here's how I would rank them in terms of cold hardiness:

1. L. nitida

2. L. drudei

3. L. decora

4. L. saribus

5. L. chinensis

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I agree with you Tom. So many resources rank Chinensis as being the most cold hardy but I have found all Australian Livistona to be more hardy overall. There are a few more rare species that might not be but most have been for me. Even Saribus seems to hang in there with the Australian Livistona. Chinensis is such a slow grower as well that it takes it longer to recover from any cosmetic damage.

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Yes Keith, a quick and easy reference point. The info is not really new, but hopefully how I'm attempting to compile it is. Instead of multiple palm families and cold hardiness charting, I'm going with a single family of palms. For example, If someone has a L. chinensis that has survived for many years, they can take a quick look at the chart and see what other Livistonia's they could comfortably add. Or, if they want to zone push with a particular palm family, they can see what is next in hardiness on the list.

I think the First Damage ---> Death of the palm is also good info. Some folks don't mind a little frond damage each year or pushing stuff to the brink. Others want everything to stay pristine.

First Damage Death

L. nitida -6°C./21°F ???

L. drudei -6C/21 F ???

L. decora -6°C./21°F ???

L. saribus (green petiole) ??? ???

L. chinensis -3.3/26F ???

L. australis ??? ???

L. mullerii ??? ???

L. rigida ??? ???

L. fulva ??? ???

L. saribus (black petiole) ??? ???

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Walter John, they are underappreciated. It was only after many unsuccessful attempt to grow palms that just would not grow in my area without a greenhouse "I might add like many of you for many years I tried" that I truly appreciated both how durable and beautiful that they truly are. I made Livistona species my foundation planting ten years ago and I simply love them all. It was a wise choice to go with Aussie Livistona than to go with a mass planting of Washingtonia. Livistona just simply seem to like the southeast better. Yes sometimes they will receive cosmetic damage but they shake it off like true champions and live to fight another day. The only think that can compare in my limited experience has been a few species of Sabal which I am also very fond of for both their majesty and their durability.

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Walter John, they are underappreciated. It was only after many unsuccessful attempt to grow palms that just would not grow in my area without a greenhouse "I might add like many of you for many years I tried" that I truly appreciated both how durable and beautiful that they truly are. I made Livistona species my foundation planting ten years ago and I simply love them all. It was a wise choice to go with Aussie Livistona than to go with a mass planting of Washingtonia. Livistona just simply seem to like the southeast better. Yes sometimes they will receive cosmetic damage but they shake it off like true champions and live to fight another day. The only think that can compare in my limited experience has been a few species of Sabal which I am also very fond of for both their majesty and their durability.

Agreed.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Thank you Keith, we see eye to eye often buddy; especially on Sabal and Livistona I might add. Hope you are doing well.

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A good experience of L nitida in California with Jon T here at the last post of that topic : http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/3603-livistona-nitida/

Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:52 PM

Here's an update on my post of 5 years ago (post #1 above): The livistona nitidas all survived that tough run of 14 degree nights, and they are fine and growing well now. I have had temps down to 21 since then, and probably 25 nights in the mid-twenties, and I've never seen any l. nitida damage since that catastrophic winter of 2007. The are much better than australis or decipiens/decora at resisting even cosmetic damage. I believe that livistona nitida is the toughest of the livistonas for a California 9a climate that gets an 8a blast every decade or two. Love to hear updates or similar/alternate experiences from the rest of you!

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Jon T-Central CA coastal valley foothills-9A
Forever seeking juania australis...
Edited by Kelern

Z9b, Crozon peninsula, Brittany, the far west region of France

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These are the hardiest Livistona, easily tolerate into the lower 20sF

australis

boninensis

chinensis

decora (decipiens)

mariae

nitida

saribus (green petiole form)

This group of Livistona are half hardy, good into the mid 20sF

benthamii

concinna

drudeii

fulva

jenkinsiana

lanuginosa

muelleri

nasmophila

rigida

saribus (maroon petiole form)

speciosa

These are the most tender, below 28-29F will severely burn them

carinensis

endauensis

merrillii (now Saribus merrillii)

robinsoniana (now Saribus robinsonianus)

rotundifolia (now Saribus rotundifolius)

woodfordii (now Saribus woodfordii)

These are dry climate palms, I have never gotten them to survive here so don't know how hardy they are

alfredii

eastonii

humilis

inermis

lorophylla

victoriae

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Eric would you say they start to show damage or die at those temps?

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Start to show damage

The first group I would estimate they are killed between 16-20F

The second group below 22-25F would be fatal

The third below 25-26F would kill them.

But this can vary, depending on weather/freeze conditions and genetics. Some palms are stronger, others weaker. Just a general guide but not an absolute statement.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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I agree and I have realized like Eric that mass plantings have shown great genetic differences even within an individual species which could or could not be do to some past hybridization with less hardy species at times. I have not had much success with the last group yet either but I am going to try a few again in a sandy more elevated area of my property. Great list Eric it covers just about everything.

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Here's additional data Killed scorched

L. saribus ( green) <16 F (1989 surv) b

L. sarbus (wine colored) ? 21 F (2001 )

L, australis >16F (1989)

L. drudei <19F 20-25F

L. fulva <19 20-25

L. robinsaniana 25

L. chinensis <10F (some alive from 83 and 85) mine were scorched badly in 1989

L, muelli < 19F 22-25

L rigida < 10F Merrill s survived in 1985 one at Kanapaha that has seen what has happend since then

I had L. chinensis L. australis and saribus out in 1989 --- firt year planting so these were 3 gallons L. australis was the only one killed

All the other species were planted after 1989 so havent really seen below 19F so the lethal point is probably between 15 and 20,

Scorching has beeen variable some years its just the older bottom leaves die real fast after words and the tops arent bohtered. Many times we have bad droughts afterwords that probably factor. 2001 and 2010 we had real hard winters -- never got below 20 or so but weeks of freezes and this was when alot of the scorching occurred.

My experiences here in Jax

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If mine see any damage it is usually on the leaf tips and about 75% of the leaf will remain green. Saribus is much tougher than I had originally thought. Has Rigida proven to be more hardy than Marie?

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L. nitida, saribus (green), decora, drudei, and chinensis have all recovered from 13F (not this winter) at the Coastal Botanical Gardens in Savannah. The key, of course, is short duration.

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They are much tougher than they get credit for especially Saribus. I know that I have decora inland at our farm and they experienced snow in 2009 "I think might have been 2010" for a short time but only had minor leaf tip burn. It did not get below twenty degrees for sure but they were no worse for the wear. They also produced fresh green spears within a few weeks when the weather was back to normal.

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  • 1 month later...

Yes Keith, a quick and easy reference point. The info is not really new, but hopefully how I'm attempting to compile it is. Instead of multiple palm families and cold hardiness charting, I'm going with a single family of palms. For example, If someone has a L. chinensis that has survived for many years, they can take a quick look at the chart and see what other Livistonia's they could comfortably add. Or, if they want to zone push with a particular palm family, they can see what is next in hardiness on the list.

I think the First Damage ---> Death of the palm is also good info. Some folks don't mind a little frond damage each year or pushing stuff to the brink. Others want everything to stay pristine.

First Damage Death

L. nitida -6°C./21°F ???

L. drudei -6C/21 F ???

L. decora -6°C./21°F ???

L. saribus (green petiole) ??? ???

L. chinensis -3.3/26F ???

L. australis ??? ???

L. mullerii ??? ???

L. rigida ??? ???

L. fulva ??? ???

L. saribus (black petiole) ??? ???

Thanks for this list, just what I was looking for. I've got three livistona I want to liberate from their pots this spring: drudei, fulva and languinosa x drudei. How shade tolerant are all of these as seedlings? Is blazing sun best?

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I agree with Eric's observations.

Also, L. nitida and L. mariae have been my hardiest Livistonas. My deep freeze of 14F a few years ago killed mullerii, rigida, and saribus (assuming the maroon petiole form) outright and completely defoliated all of my decora and nearly half had their spears pull (pretty much all recovered). L. australis had major 50% leaf damage while nitida and mariae, while still showing some leaf damage, were relatively untouched compared to all of the rest my Livistonas.

I am not growing L. chinensis at my new house but this species saw in the upper teens at my old house and showed only minor damage. The chinensis is in a relatively frost free spot. Those chinensis in town that were exposed to upper teens and frost showed major leaf damage, some nearly defoliated.

Merrill Wilcox has been growing Livistonas for a LONG time and experienced a freeze that dropped into the low teens here in Gainesville, FL. All of his Livistonas died except for L. mariae. He was not growing L. nitida at the time.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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During the 14F freeze I experieced (outside of town) my old house (in town) recorded 17F on a digital thermometer in an exposed location.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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I agree that Marie is tough even as seedlings. They also have such interesting foliage as well.

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Here are three Livistonas growing at the Bamboo Farm in Savannah, GA:

L. chinensis is in the front, L. saribus is tucked in behind it, and L. nitida is the tall one. The tall palm to the left is a Washingtonia something.

DSC_0066_zps78b80ca9.jpg

And this was labeled Livistona drudei. It has always done well in Savannah.

DSC_0086_zps00f33203.jpg

Joseph C. Le Vert

Augusta, GA

USA

Zone 8

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Joe,

Thanks for the pictures. I've never tried to grow L. drudei here in N. Florida because of many reports of its lack of (extreme) cold hardiness.

Actually got talked out of buying a 15gal plant from Rockledge Gardens Nursery in Cocoa/Rockledge Fl. because they didn't think it would survive in Gainesville. They had a few large ones planted out at the Nursery and related how these took damage during most of their freezes.

Could this plant be misidentified?

I really like the way the leaves on younger plants look.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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It could certainly be misidentified! I grew it from a seed, but who knows if the seed was correctly labeled....or if my labeling remained accurate. I work with students and sometimes they mix things up and so do I. However, it doesn't look like chinensis or nitida. It is growing near a lake under high pines in an area that is periodically wet. The drainage is actually pretty good, but Savannah can get some big storms and it takes a while for the water to percolate down. Close by there are several Sabals growing under the same conditions and they are also pretty happy.

Here is L. decipiens growing near the others. There are two B x S (Mules) growing in the background as well as a tall Acrocomia totai. Way in the back, that little Butia is B. archeri. It is mature and bearing seed. I've tried to germinate them, but had no success. There is also a tree-form S. repens in the background.

DSC_0064_zpsfcbca163.jpg

Joseph C. Le Vert

Augusta, GA

USA

Zone 8

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That Acrocomia totai is nice! .... didn't try one here because of the needles. Didn't think that needles and beach apparel ( ie no shoes or flip flops) would go together. Just how brutal are they? do needles get dropped on the ground ocassionaly?

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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I haven't been around it too much, but the only needles that looked like they might do some damage were ones still attached to old leaf petiole bases. Those 'boots' would have made a dandy mediaeval weapon!

Joseph C. Le Vert

Augusta, GA

USA

Zone 8

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David I know that even seedlings and juvenile acrocomia have black needles ver similar to the wild dew berry that grows all over the Southeast. Yes they are sharp but definitely no prickly pear cactus or Spanish bayonette. The worst needles to me are from our own native cactus; they even penetrate gloves and have to be removed with tweezers. They are much less offensive than the thorns on the common rose as well at least they are not deceptively hidden below bright beautiful flowers.

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