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Sabal parviflora


BigFrond

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Hi All,

I was never impressed or interested with any sabal until I went to the Palomar College Arboretum over the weekend, and one palm mesmerized me, sabal parviflora.  This palm is huge with massive  fronds up to 15 feet and a trunk 3 feet wide.  Wow!  The speciman was about 35ft tall with 18-20 ft of trunk.  I wonder why SoCal never planted any of this palm in the park or zoo.  I took some pictures and will post them tonight.  Pictures does not do it any justice.  WOW!

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/arbimg1.htm  - I think this link is current.

http://www.palomar.edu/arboretum/picgal.html

The picture of the palm on this website was probably about 10 years ago.

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Dear BigFrond,

Iam a lover of some specific sabal varities_Sabal Palmetto,Sabal

Mexicana,Sabal River-Side and the last one is my most favouriate of all.but after seeing the sabal Parviflora i have

second thoughts that even this fan palm should be included in

my wish list for online seed purchase.

Iam a new member.(Kris Achar From South India).and spending everyday in this forum, not a single day has gone without surprise.i.e seeing new newer palm species ! thanks to all you guys.and i feel that iam not alone in the Quest for the holy grail_

i.e in search for new and peculier looking palms & plants.

One man one tree..

Love,

Kris.

love conquers all..

43278.gif

.

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Many years ago, I also saw a few palms labelled Sabal parviflora a couple of hundred feet to the right on entering FTG by the service entrance.  They had smooth well proportioned off-white trunks about three times the height of your most recent shot.  For me. they were the most beautiful Sabal ever seen.  There was a similar report from the southwest U. S. recently.  Kew reports parviflora to be a synonym for S. palmetto, which is about the ultimate lump.

I've only been to Cuba once, and was quite restrained while I travelled, but remember seeing very large groves of a tall, with almost white, smooth trunked sabal off in the distance.  Whatever "S. parviflora" really is, it requires scrutiny.

merrill, North Central Florida

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I suspect the plant might be Sabal maritima.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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Dave, I believe you are correct that the palm pictured is Sabal maritima.  The Sabal parviflora in Cuba occurs mostly in the south-central part of the country, rather close to Cienfuegos in some rather swampy areas.  It looks very much like Sabal palmetto and hence the reason for lumping the two together.   The palm pictured looks every bit like Sabal maritima, which is widespread in Cuba.  Absolutely magnificent palms!

Below is a picture of Sabal palmetto/parviflora taken in Cuba.

Paul

post-19-1153163566_thumb.jpg

Paul Craft

Loxahatchee, FL

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Here is a photo of Sabal maritima.  It is hard to tell the scale of the palms, but the Coconuts under the Sabals are normal size coconuts about 18 to 20 feet tall.  

Paul

post-19-1153163741_thumb.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Paul Craft

Loxahatchee, FL

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I think Dave and Licuala are correct on the name.  BTW, that is a good picture for size comparison Licuala.  Many people would think nothing of the parviflora/maritima and may even compare to to the washies from pictures(like me previously).  There is no comparison.  There were a few other sabal varieties at the Palomar College Aboretum and they were no comparisons either.

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Hi, Paul:

Nice to hear from you!

Just looked up S. maritima in your excellent encyclopaedia.  It meets the description of what I've seen well.  You state that it "reportedly has survived unscathed a temperature of 27F."  Is there any further info, like how far up the SE U. S. coast it might survive?

merrill, North Central Florida

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Does anyone know of a source for S maritima seed?  Sometimes Sabals have surprisingly unexpected cold hardiness.

merrill, North Central Florida

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Hi Merrill,

I know S. Maritima has done very well up in Tampa.  There was a bunch (over 100) planted in a tree field near there that got up in the 30 to 50 foot range.  They were purchased by an estate in South Florida.  They had to be at the very least 30 years old when bought, which would make them now 35 years old.  They are probably actually older.  That means they have gone through some cold weather but they show no signs of being bothered by it.  I kinda feel they are in the same class as S. domingensis and S. causarum and thus would have about the same cold hardiness.  I have never seen these palms seed, but will watch them more carefully now.  They began flowering about 6 weeks ago.  I have been trying to locate some more of them, but to no avail.  S. maritima is rather rare in cultivation.  

Paul

Paul Craft

Loxahatchee, FL

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I have a nice one,It is being used I think be RPS as an example. As for mine it has taken 22degs and heavy frost with no damage,Merrill I have alot of small plants I'll give you one. John Soggy in Old Miakka

Old Miakka, Florida

23 miles inland from Sarasota Bay

Zone 9b

middle of a swamp in SW Central FL

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Here are a few photos of John's Sabal maritima. I like this palm a lot.

post-48-1153251179_thumb.jpg

Jeff Wilson

SW Florida - 26.97 N 82 W

Port Charlotte, FL, United States

Zone 9b/10a

hot, humid subtropical climate - mild winters

approx. 50" rain annually during growing season

Summer came too early, springtime came too late...

went from freezing cold to bleached out summer days

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Forgot to note that seed was collected in Nagril years ago........

post-48-1153251464_thumb.jpg

Jeff Wilson

SW Florida - 26.97 N 82 W

Port Charlotte, FL, United States

Zone 9b/10a

hot, humid subtropical climate - mild winters

approx. 50" rain annually during growing season

Summer came too early, springtime came too late...

went from freezing cold to bleached out summer days

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(Jeff Wilson @ Jul. 18 2006,15:37)

QUOTE
Forgot to note that seed was collected in Nagril years ago........

Wow!  Hey Jeff, how old is your specimen?  That is awsome!  The specimen that I pointed out at the begining of the thread is at least 3 times as wide as yours from frond tip to frond tip.

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Hi, Paul:

Thanks for all that info.  Your photos show S. maritima to be a very impressive palm.  I'd be very interested in some seed [ if the opportunity arises] to have a bit of variability.  It seems a chance worth taking here!  Oddly, I've lost causiarum 2-3 times, but kept a domingensis alive for years.  There is still a surviving causiarum on the UF campus here in Gainesville.  Unfortunately, my domingensis is suspect because it seems to be a runt.

Hi, John:

I'd be very grateful for a an S. maritima seedling!  Several of your friends have offered S. quinquefaria seedlings, which I'd like to buy or trade for, too.  I'm pretty definite on PalmFest at St. Augustine, as I'm sure you are.  Hope to see you there.

Hi, Jeff:

Thanks for those photos.

merrill

merrill, North Central Florida

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That palm at John's place is very impressive.  More so than a picture can show.  It is immediately identified as something different and has extremely concave boots that are sharp on the edges.

John,

Please call me when you get a chance.

813-625-3438

Thanks

Rob

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The Sabal pictured at Palomar definitely looks like a maritima, with its' massive, deeply arched and costapalmate leaves. By the way, there's one with six feet of trunk in  the Mission District of San Francisco, so it's a palm that can thrive without a lot of heat. On the other hand, it's probably never experienced a temperature below 25F, and that on only one occasion (in l990)

Zone 10a, at sea level, eastern shore of San Francisco Bay,where baymuck met dry land 100 years ago;  swampy  during the rainy season;rarely below 35F or above 95F;  Northern  California Chapter Vice-President and Oakland Lakeside Palmetum Director

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Pablo, did you ever see the sabals at Grant Stephenson's old location in s.w. Houston, the place off the s.w. fwy?  He asked me (at least 7, maybe as long ago as 9) yrs ago if I knew what they were,  I did not, nor did he.  The heavily booted and quite light colored trunks were AT LEAST three ft. wide, probably wider.   The leaves were not that impressive, as the palms had the typical "hurricane cut" for transplanting.

I guess they MIGHT have been maritima. Can't remember where he said he got them; but, as you know, GS had contact all over North America.

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Hey Roberto,

I vaguely remember the Sabals at Grant's.  He asked me what they may be and I could not hazard a guess.  When they are that size, it is really hard to distinguish between causarium, domingensis, and maritima.  Throw in "Riverside" (whatever that is) and it is anyones's guess.  I don't remember where they came from.

pablo

Paul Craft

Loxahatchee, FL

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  • 7 years later...

S. "Riverside" is supposedly a cross of S. bermudana and S. dominguensis. That's what I heard anyway. I have seedlings and a few seeds. They grow faster and taller likley due to hybrid vigour.

S. "Brazoria" is known now to be an ancient cross of S. palmetto and S. minor. Super hardy, it survived the ice age in Texas when S. palmetto was forced to retreat to S. Florida for the duration and is now taking back lost territory.

Brian Bruning

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