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WHAT does it take for BS Man to weed his yard? (Palm trauma)


BS Man about Palms

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The reason I asked is because we had some nasty weeds in our yard before we landscaped and hubby used some round up on them. Took a few applications but did the job after a few weeks. Some point after that on a few ocassions we have both seen bees in our yard that seemed stunned. Kind of couldn't fly and landed on the pavement or once on a table near me. They subsequently died there.

I tend to avoid bees having been stung a few times as a kid but these guys could barely move. one tried to fly a way and did this wavy path and then landed on the pavers. subsequently died there. If I hadn't seen it happen a few times I might not give it a second thought; but never recalled having seen this behavior before, it struck us both as unusual. We both wondered if there was a connection and have hesitated using the spray since then. I use to see a lot of bees around our salvia to the point I was afraid to almost walk past them at certains times of day when they were frequented by the bees. but they diminished as well. Not many bees any longer around our flowering mules. Curious what others have noticed.

salvia? your bees were hallucinating... that's why they couldn't fly straight.

Grant
Long Beach, CA

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LOL, got the reference. The bees did love the red salvia, hummingbirds as well. The salvia was pulled up years before we had the weed/round up issues just for point of reference.

The only thing with putting down newspaper, cardboard, etc. is that the voles will continue to tunnel underneath it unobserved. They multiply very quickly and you don't want to end up with an infestation in the neighborhood. If Bill didn't have a vole problem right now, I'd probably agree that the cover approach would be a great way to go for the whole property. We personally prefer to go the least chemical route we can in our yard. If it were me I would just bite the bullet, get some helpers, supervise the removal and manually pull up all the weeds/lawn as quickly as possible.

Talking to your neighbors is also a good tactic in attempting to erradicate or keep the voles (moles, gophers) in check. We ganged up on the varmints and agreed to tell each other if we began to notice a problem again to get an early jump on them. Walking your property with an eye out for tunnels or holes or disturbances in your mulched beds, equally important.

Zone 9b (formerly listed as Zone 9a); Sunset 14

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:rant: Ouch. I got rid of all the grass & weeds in my side yard. A layer of newspaper & 2 inches of mulch. Mulch is your friend. :)

-Randy

"If you need me, I'll be outside" -Randy Wiesner Palm Beach County, Florida Zone 10Bish

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WestCoastGal Debbie has it.. Thats the current plan. I have to SEE the tunnels, mounds, etc to get rid of the gopher and Voles, etc. ALSO a more open undergrowth area will allow the natural predators easier access... gotta give those "attack-hummingbirds" a clear flight right of way..

Everytime I look at the big Dypsis prestoniana it gives me faith..and incentive to carry on and not give up

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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EVERY small Chamaedora I had that was planted is gone.. EXCEPT this one. (Including a male and female set of adscendens.) :rant:

I think this is a C. benzeii I was given by Gary L. It was holding 6 or 7 leaves and flowering, I came out to find it laying at about a 50 degree angle.

post-27-0-34737600-1393620552_thumb.jpg

I decided to dig it up and found a couple intact roots, the trunk also looked like it was trying to root out higher up the trunk too. So I threw it in this 7 gal pot and so far has pushed about 1 1/2" of spear. After I cut off 2/3 of the leaves, seeds and flowers.

post-27-0-58850900-1393620647_thumb.jpg

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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wow Bill very sorry to hear about you losing all these palms especially your your much loved Dypsis species .

Matt has the right idea!

- Weed wacker all the grass and rake up the excess then use roundup to kill off all the weeds then apply a repeat application in 2 weeks time to tackle and you missed . I would hand weed a 6 inch circumference around each palm then spray the rest early in the morning when there is no breeze to avoid drift . Once all the weeds are dead i would -

- lay down a dripper system around the garden.

- go to the mall and collect cardboard boxes lay them down everywhere and get them really wet.

- sprinkle blood & Bone lightly over the cardboard will assist in any nitrogen being taken away by mulch .

- get a huge load of COURSE wood chips not the small grade ones delivered and lay a thick coverage all over the garden beds . I have found wood chips to be extremely effective in weed control and they last for ages especially in a light rainfall climate and using drippers instead of sprinklers will make them last longer and save water . By adding blood-meal under the chips helps a lot .

- get some gro power plus fertilizer and spread around each palm or apex palms plus .

I have been doing this in my garden and hardly ever seen a weed but i allocate a time every week to pull the odd weed that appears .

Alternatively you could dig out and pull up every weed :crying: and looking at the yard at the moment i was psychologically defeated just looking at the pictures and the spray and cover option looks like the way to go mate ! :greenthumb:

one last point Procrastination is the root of all evil - start next weekend ! I work long hrs too Bill but by getting up really early and allocating time i have conquered my weeds permanently .

For example this planter bed along my driveway used to be chock a block full of weed s but by mulching heavily and just directing irrigation to the palms root zone weeding is almost non existent !

post-1252-0-72108600-1393624332_thumb.jp

Cheers Troy


Old Beach ,Hobart
Tasmania ,Australia. 42 " south
Cool Maritime climate

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Looks like you have a nice garden under there somewhere! If you decide to pull them, a pitchfork is the best weeding tool to loosen up the soul and free up the root systems do they're easy to pull, I had an even worse weed problem here in Florida when I left for 7 months! NEVER again! The cardboard/ mulch is a great organic way to go :)

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Bill, once you weed and hopefully mulch, I would consider adding Dimension down. It is about $50 a bag but will prevent a lot of weeds from forming.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Bill, I'm really sad that the Varmints got some of your prize palms. In addition to getting rid of the weeds, go out and get some rat traps and mouse traps and set them in an area where losses have occurred ( I use freshly sliced almonds jammed into the bait slot ). It's not expensive, and with a little luck you may snap up the main offender the first night. Try the rat traps first, it sounds like it may be larger than a mouse.

Perry Glenn

SLO Palms

(805) 550-2708

http://www.slopalms.com

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The varmints are eating the roots and lower trunk so more likely given his location a California vole (a field mouse that is both an above and below ground dweller). Gophers would be really obvious even with his overgrowth. He needs to get to the underground tunnels before they reproduce. Trapping will catch some but not all and could well miss any reproducing females.

His best bet is to get rid of the colony that's in his area before they feast on the rest of his nice palms. Don't think he should spend the time trying to de-weed the area by covering up the ground and their tunnels with material. Just do whatever he can to clear the space as fast as possible, locating the underground tunnels.

We don't normally like to use chemicals or poison for control. However, we got rid our neighborhood voles by using one of those pole applicators that pierces the ground and feeds a bait into the tunnels. You can tell when you hit the tunnel by how easily the rod penetrates the ground. When you locate a tunnel you turn a crank and the bait falls into the tunnel to be eaten. The poison pellet has a short life and everything we read says it won't harm pets or animals if accidentally consummed or poison thru a third party route. The voles die underground in their tunnels and the poison rapidly dissipates. It uses a chemical that also has an antidote should your dog for example get into the whole bag and consume a lot.

Zone 9b (formerly listed as Zone 9a); Sunset 14

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Bill, I'm really sad that the Varmints got some of your prize palms. In addition to getting rid of the weeds, go out and get some rat traps and mouse traps and set them in an area where losses have occurred ( I use freshly sliced almonds jammed into the bait slot ). It's not expensive, and with a little luck you may snap up the main offender the first night. Try the rat traps first, it sounds like it may be larger than a mouse.

Don't use rat traps. I bought two rat traps to give it a try. I dug to expose the tunnel and then blocked the tunnel. The next day the tunnel open again so i set my traps in that spot with some peanut butter on them. I placed an upside down bucket over them and the next morning the traps were cleaned of the peanut butter. I guess they are too small to trip the rat traps. Time to buy mice traps.

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In case people haven't seen this before, I think this Yard Butler is the same device we used to dispense the bait: http://www.amazon.com/Yard-Butler-GBA-1-Gopher-Applicator/dp/B000RYL1NE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1393712069&sr=8-2&keywords=bait+dispenser and believe we used Kaput Gopher/mole/vole bait for it. Also sold online. The bait is individually packaged into small packets and comes in a plastic tub so you keep it dry and only expose a small amount when you need it. You tear open a packet, empty it into the little dispenser box on the device and when you turn the crank it dispenses a dose into the underground hole. You don't even have to handle the bait.

Our neighbor ended up buying the applicator and a supply of the bait and said any of us could borrow it from him if we start to see holes, tunneling or eaten plants in our yards. Call it the neighborhood defense plan.

Zone 9b (formerly listed as Zone 9a); Sunset 14

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Oh yeah! Justin's got a great idea. Steve Toad layed cardboard down all over and then we put mulch on top. His yard has never looked better. He did have to spot treat with roundup after thethe fact because the bermuda grass can work it's way up through the cardboard, but from what I remember it wasn't a mass application, just a little here and there. Much more earth friendly.

Man, I am sorry for your losses Bill.

I agree with Matty. I've dressed almost all my beds with a lasagna style layering of organic fertilizer on top of the soil, a thin layer of composted mulch, a layer of cardboard and a thick layer of mulch over that. I've been very pleased with the results. Just be sure to leave enough clearance around the trunks of your palms for air, water and etc.

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I'm so sorry Bill. You know we all truly sympathize.

I can add to my own dead palms list this week, a lovely little Socratea exorrhiza grown from seed from Tim (Realarch) after our 2013 PT fundraiser. It was the first one up and certainly the fastest grower with 2 fully open little leaves. It seemed healthy one day and completely dead by the next.

Cindy, we lost one of our Socratea while the other two (planted in the same area) are doing very well. I hope someone here can explain this to both of us.

Four actually trunking, fruiting, big palms all have died mysteriously in Puerto Rico since we bought our farm: a Veitchia arecina, huge Roystonea borinquena, Archontophoenix alexandrae and Saribus rotundifolia. They were perfect one visit and long dead by the next. Never more than one per year and spread out over the farm, but still quite disconcerting since I have no idea what killed them. I know there are no gophers and I've never heard of voles there or wild pigs at least in my area. The leaves were too tall to blame the neighbor's cows.

Has anyone suggested a fungal problem? I think, don't know with certainty that is the cause, but I am someone will be able to tell us.

We look forward to seeing your new palm growing area. I'd loan you the guy in Puerto Rico who's a whiz with a machete if I could. He expects only $6 an hour and a sandwich for lunch and trims weeds extremely quickly to the bare dirt if you like. Even the few days a year he helps us out when we are there are wonderful to clean up the paths. And yes, we always add a tip that he's embarrassed about and tries to refuse. He even finds plants we'd forgotten about in weeds higher than our PVC pipe markers.

At that fee and the mess we have it would almost be worth it to fly him over here for a few weeks.

After your weeds are minimized, plan some retail therapy (in lieu of flowers or a donation in honor of your dead palms) and support your local palm nurseries with new trees!

I will be sure to share your 'retail therapy' suggestion Mike.

Lee

Located at 1500' elevation in Kona on the west side of the Big Island of Hawaii.

Average annual rainfall is about 60"; temperature around 80 degrees.

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OUCH, Bill. I feel your pain! Glad you have those other glorious palms to help you cheer up. The Big Curly is fabulous!

I've never heard of Clinosperma bracteale. Does anyone have pictures of larger/mature ones?

Lee

Lee

Located at 1500' elevation in Kona on the west side of the Big Island of Hawaii.

Average annual rainfall is about 60"; temperature around 80 degrees.

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I feel your pain! Glad to know that you have some other beautiful palms to help lessen the pain. The 'Big Curly' is gorgeous!

I had never heard of Clinosperma bracteale. Does anyone have pictures of larger ones to share?

Lee

Lee

Located at 1500' elevation in Kona on the west side of the Big Island of Hawaii.

Average annual rainfall is about 60"; temperature around 80 degrees.

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I'm so sorry Bill. You know we all truly sympathize.

I can add to my own dead palms list this week, a lovely little Socratea exorrhiza grown from seed from Tim (Realarch) after our 2013 PT fundraiser. It was the first one up and certainly the fastest grower with 2 fully open little leaves. It seemed healthy one day and completely dead by the next.

Cindy, we lost one of our Socratea while the other two (planted in the same area) are doing very well. I hope someone here can explain this to both of us.

Four actually trunking, fruiting, big palms all have died mysteriously in Puerto Rico since we bought our farm: a Veitchia arecina, huge Roystonea borinquena, Archontophoenix alexandrae and Saribus rotundifolia. They were perfect one visit and long dead by the next. Never more than one per year and spread out over the farm, but still quite disconcerting since I have no idea what killed them. I know there are no gophers and I've never heard of voles there or wild pigs at least in my area. The leaves were too tall to blame the neighbor's cows.

Has anyone suggested a fungal problem? I think, don't know with certainty that is the cause, but I am someone will be able to tell us.

We look forward to seeing your new palm growing area. I'd loan you the guy in Puerto Rico who's a whiz with a machete if I could. He expects only $6 an hour and a sandwich for lunch and trims weeds extremely quickly to the bare dirt if you like. Even the few days a year he helps us out when we are there are wonderful to clean up the paths. And yes, we always add a tip that he's embarrassed about and tries to refuse. He even finds plants we'd forgotten about in weeds higher than our PVC pipe markers.

At that fee and the mess we have it would almost be worth it to fly him over here for a few weeks.

After your weeds are minimized, plan some retail therapy (in lieu of flowers or a donation in honor of your dead palms) and support your local palm nurseries with new trees!

I will be sure to share your 'retail therapy' suggestion Mike.

What symptoms are you guys seeing when they die? Are they small (seedlings)? Do the leaves all turn a pale green/gray? Is the stem mushy?

Jon

Brooksville, FL 9a

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OUCH, Bill. I feel your pain! Glad you have those other glorious palms to help you cheer up. The Big Curly is fabulous!

I've never heard of Clinosperma bracteale. Does anyone have pictures of larger/mature ones?

Lee

I made a mistake on that... No less common, but it was a Moratia cerifera. A lot of the New Caledonia palms are hard to come by. Once planted I've actually had good luck growing them. Really Basselinea tomentosa seems to almost be a "no go" here. But even then I'd like to try again someday..

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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I had also let my green house go and it had gotten nearly impossible to get in there and I had not looked in a while. I had more less got in the habit of setting a sprinkler at the door and running it several hours. When I looked closer this week, pretty much every palm was gone via being consumed. The cycads had a very good survival rate.

So far the biggest surprise was a Voaniola in a citrus pot untouched with 4 green leaves in the greenhouse. Hard to pick the saddest but I had a large 5 gal Masoala madagascarensis that is completely gone like a salad consumed. :bemused:

Thanks again for all the condolences. If it helps as a reminder for others, its wasn't all for naught.

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Bill, once you weed and hopefully mulch, I would consider adding Dimension down. It is about $50 a bag but will prevent a lot of weeds from forming.

Not heard of this Len. What is it?? spray? Granules??

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Bill's garden is one of the legends

Have to charge admission

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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I had also let my green house go and it had gotten nearly impossible to get in there and I had not looked in a while. I had more less got in the habit of setting a sprinkler at the door and running it several hours. When I looked closer this week, pretty much every palm was gone via being consumed. The cycads had a very good survival rate.

So far the biggest surprise was a Voaniola in a citrus pot untouched with 4 green leaves in the greenhouse. Hard to pick the saddest but I had a large 5 gal Masoala madagascarensis that is completely gone like a salad consumed. :bemused:

Thanks again for all the condolences. If it helps as a reminder for others, its wasn't all for naught.

Not the greenhouse too....all I can say is you must have some of the plumpest, well-fed voles out there. How in the world do they fit back into their tunnels?!

Glad the rains will make weeding an easier job at least. Our news up here says rain Monday and Thursday.

Zone 9b (formerly listed as Zone 9a); Sunset 14

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The mulch in my "dogs yard" makes maintenance a piece of cake. I've given up on trying to grow turf grass & weeds, as you can see in this section.

post-1035-0-62600300-1393853582_thumb.jp

"If you need me, I'll be outside" -Randy Wiesner Palm Beach County, Florida Zone 10Bish

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Bill, once you weed and hopefully mulch, I would consider adding Dimension down. It is about $50 a bag but will prevent a lot of weeds from forming.

Not heard of this Len. What is it?? spray? Granules??

It is mainly a pre-emergent.

http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDAS/dh_08e8/0901b803808e855c.pdf?filepath=turf/pdfs/noreg/010-60450.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Bill,

I know that it does not mean much, but the fact that the varmints are so active in your soil demonstrates the quality of the growth medium. I know of many areas in San Diego where you find no gophers or voles because the sole is so dense and hard that it is impossible for them to be active. So if you clean the varmint problem up and be vigilant your soil is some of the best for palm growing.

Patrick

Bonita, California (San Diego)

Zone 10B

10 Year Low of 29 degrees

6 Miles from San Diego Bay

Mild winters, somewhat warm summers

10 Miles North of Mexico/USA Border

1 acre

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Randy,

Damn, what a nice looking, beautiful setting you have created.

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Speechless.

post-27-0-35924400-1394343694_thumb.jpg post-27-0-76994400-1394343984_thumb.jpg

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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Still some more to clean up and address, but should I start a new thread to show it "done"??

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Please! The 2 photos are just a tease. :winkie:

Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, 1/4 mile from the 2018 flow
All characters  in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

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Ok... but it will be a little bit yet before I post it. Its really sunny and windy, not the best for taking pics... Plus There are some things still to remove.

Oh yeah, I had put out rat/mouse bait about 2 weeks ago.. We found 1 big dead rat.. That was a good thing.. plus I noticed the chewing had reduced some.

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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wow, sorry for your loses ......

Dypsis hovomantsina and ampansandavae are 2 of my favorite dypsis species that hopefully one day I can find and try and grow, yours were pretty good sized too :(

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good thing I'm super anal about my weeds, I haven't had time to lay out the sod for the pathways and small grass areas but spent about an hour at around midnight pulling out everything I can find in the ground right after the recent rain

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Bill, WOW!!!!

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Looking forward to this Bill, no pressure. :)

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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amazing - even better than spraying - can't wait ti see the rest all done .

YOU MUST FEEL RELIEVED TO HAVE NO WEEDS LOL

Don't forget the backyard ! I want to see it looking like this in six months !

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/13076-before-and-after/

More Pictures Please

Old Beach ,Hobart
Tasmania ,Australia. 42 " south
Cool Maritime climate

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Looks great Bill! And although you did have the weeds situation going strong, I wouldn't beat yourself up too bad about it. If I remember correctly-you work a full time job (and sometimes more than that) and you are redoing your house -which eats up time, and hopefully have some fun time as well. There are times when I am too busy with growing a crop to worry about the weeds in my gardens and they look pretty bad-so I get it. Roundup is your best friend here since you don't have tons of spare time. I spray roundup right up close to the palms and other plants that I have in the garden and never had a problem. You just have to get the lower leaves out of the way. Also, if you do get Roundup on some leaves, if you rinse them off right away with water, they will be ok too. But when you weigh the option of spraying everything in an hour vs hand weeding for days, realistically Roundup wins everytime for me.

Getting rid of the weeds will also allow your plants to have better aeration down around the base also-but it isn't going to help much with voles if that is your problem, I don't think. Voles/moles come out at night when its dark, but you should see/feel tunnels if it is one of the above rodents. Voles are a bitch to get rid of-I do know that the less that you dig up the ground (keep it compacted) the harder it is for the vole to dig in it. Rototilled ground is an invitation for them to move in!

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Wow, amazing garden. I knew it was rats. So, you pulled everything? That's a crap load of work

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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