Trachycarpus Species List

[Alicehunter2000]

It has probably been done before, but could we get an updated Trachycarpus species list.

Please list in order from least to coldest hardy with associated temps the species will first start showing damage, and also for the ultimate low one could reasonably expect survival with major damage.

[stevethegator]

I'll get this started:

I think the most hardy would be T. Fortunei 'nainital' which has survived below 0F in the Southeast. There are other specific fortunei forms also reported to have survived subzero. Lets just rank all these specific hardy fortunei forms at 0F to be safe.

T. Takil comes from a climate that gets regular frozen precip. and is the textbook hardiest trachy, but since the true form is so rare I've never heard of firsthand accounts of it surviving sub-zero temps like I have with 'nainital'. Lets say hardiness unknown for now.

Regular fortunei and T. Wagnerianus (likely just an ancient fortunei cultivar) are hardy in the neighborhood of 5-10F.

Next? No clue. Maybe T. Princeps? Hardiness somewhere in the mid teens F I'd guess.

Then there's T. Latisectus, reported by some to be only slightly less hardy than fortunei, and rather tender by others. Taking the average of these would put it in the mid teens as well.

Then there's the fabled T. Martianus 'Nepal' form that's been argued about here, it's got some hardiness to it, lets be conservative and say 20F, or liberal and say somewhere in the teens because that's my hunch.

Then there's regular T. Martianus and T. oreophilus which have the most tropical distributions of the genus I believe. They're still hardy though, somewhere in the 20s

The more interesting list would be their tolerance of subtropical conditions (simultaneously hot and humid with no cool down at night for a large part of the year). Being from mountainous habitats at significant elevation, most just aren't good candidates on paper for subtropical low-country conditions, as is observed sometimes with fortunei (the only ones that ever looked good in Gainesville were planted in at least some shade, plants in full sun there just flat out die overtime from the heat/sun/humidity. Disney planted large ones by the Disney McDonalds; they were dead a year later and you know they took care of them).

I'd say takil is the least tolerant of these conditions, my seedlings have all died from warmth and too much moisture and grew best in early autumn when it was in the 60s and low RH. I'd say martianus is the most tolerant of these conditions (combo of subtropical range and lower elevations than the others) but that's just a guess.

Let the debate begin! Haha

Edited February 25, 2014 by stevethegator

[stevethegator]

To clarify, my hardiness numbers above are the lowest limits i.e. "survive with potentially lethal damage." I'm also sure Ive missed some species, like nanus which I know nothing about (and being trunkless I'd rather just plant native rhapidophyllum!)

Edited February 25, 2014 by stevethegator

[palm tree man]

That is a pretty complete list Steve the only ones missing are Nanus and Germisectus and then there maybe a few undiscribed and obscure species. Nanus is a dwarf that can form a very short trunk but is very cold hardy almost like a sabal minor. I had a Takagi years ago which is a hybrid but it didn't like my soil either. You lose some but if given help in the beginning to become established they will do well. You might want to amend your soil some though when you first plant them.

[palm tree man]

Sorry didn't see your Nanus post buddy; my appologies.

[stevethegator]

Sorry didn't see your Nanus post buddy; my appologies.

No worries! Any critiques of my hardiness guesses?

[palm tree man]

They seem to be pretty accurate. I have had soil problems with Trachys in the beginning until they get established; unless I amended the soil. I lost a really nice Princeps last summer when we had unusually high rainfall even for here. I think martianus would be a good bet they aren't as hardy but seem to like our conditions somewhat better. You seem pretty dead on with hardiness from what I know buddy.

[palm tree man]

Oh, I found some latisectus, nanus, and martianus seeds in my bag. Cross your fingers maybe they will germinate; I had a good percentage of sinkers when I floated them.

[willials]

This list looks pretty dead on to me as well. We don't see quite as many varieties being attempted out here in the Pacific NW other than Fortunei, Wagnerianus, & Takil...although I don't know why since it appears most Trachys were made for this climate. I can buy half dead seedling Trachys for $3-5 per plant at my local box stores and plant them in the ground with no protection or amendment to the soil and they nearly always grow into full mature plants without any issues. Even with the high rainfall and cold temps we get here, Trachys don't typically get diseased or die. From what I have read on this site and others, Trachys don't do as well with super warm summers like you get in the South. Our summer temps top out around 90F and mostly less than 85F all summer and dry. You all have encouraged me to try some new varieties.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Here's the full list with some personal notes.

fortunei -4F highly variable in form, buy as larger palm only to find a form you like

fortunei 'naini tall' (syn. fake takil) 0F enormous fortunei with large stiffer leaves

fortunei 'bulgaria' (probably fortunei x wagnerianus) -10F like wagnerianus but larger stiff leaves

winsan (fortunei 'winsan') 25F spectacular 360 degree leaves, very tropical in appearance, NOT hardy, Portland growers have tried, they croak below 20F and show damage at even higher temps. There are fortunei that also have 360 degree leaves that can be substituted in colder climates, but you have to find them.

geminisectus 20F stiff leatherly leaves

latisectus 20F star-like leaves with less leaflets or leaflets merged together

martianus 'nepal form' 15F slightly smaller stature than khasia form.

martianus 'khasia form' 20F enormous leaves with long petioles

nanus 5F dwarf

oreophilus 12F dry, 20F wet, rots in wet cold temps cocothrinax look-alike, self cleaning trunk

princeps 1F dry, 20F wet, rots in wet cold temps the most ornamental trachy, blue green leaves with white undersides

takil 5F grows sideways at first, a bit like a cross between latisectus and fortunei

nova 15F there is a broad leaf form and a narrow leaf form, original 'fake' princeps, leaves have glaucus undersides.

ukhrulensis (syn. manipur) 15F, possibly less new species that looks like a copernicia

ravenii (not yet in cultivation)

wagnerianus (never found in habitat) 1F cool stiff leaves, totally different in appearance from fortunei

Note: Phil of Jungle Music states that most trachycarpus will die in shade. This statement is questionable, Trachys actually look spectacular in shade and do well there, even in cool places like the Pacific Northwest. Someone should ask him why he claims this.

Another note on trachycarpus fortunei: the various forms actually have been named in China:

Trachycarpus fortunei cv Chusan, common windmill form collected on Chusan island by Robert Fortunei and exported to the West, found throughout the West, this is the one with droopy ligules

Trachycarpus fortunei cv Tesan: hardier, stout and compact trachycarpus

Trachycaprus fortunei cv Winsan: round leaves ,larger petioles, unique seed branch arrangement and faster growing, suspected to be a different species because it doesn't share the hardiness trait of regular fortunei.

Trachycarpus fortunei cv Misan: smaller stature

It's worth shopping around for the right form of fortunei. Someone I know actually has a whole collection of fortunei with 360 degree round leaves, all found by cruising through nursery stock. Do not buy as seedlings if you want a special form.

[palm tree man]

It has been in cultivation for over 1,000 years as far as I know so there have got to be many different varieties and forms. Look at Cycas Revoluta, many different forms of it have been developed by gardeners in Asia and in other parts of the world for that matter.

[palm tree man]

Many great points Axel, you deserve a point yourself good sir!

[Cikas]

Note: Phil of Jungle Music states that most trachycarpus will die in shade. This statement is questionable, Trachys actually look spectacular in shade and do well there, even in cool places like the Pacific Northwest. Someone should ask him why he claims this.

That statment by him is not true at all.

Here in Trsteno ( Dubrovnik ) Arboretum, many of them are grown in full shade for hundreds of years and germinate freely ''wild'' without any problems, and they look just fine.

You can see some of them on this photos from Arboretum grown in shade.

Some more of them in shade.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Cikas

[palm tree man]

Those pictures are amazing what a beautiful garden? How old is the garden?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Note: Phil of Jungle Music states that most trachycarpus will die in shade. This statement is questionable, Trachys actually look spectacular in shade and do well there, even in cool places like the Pacific Northwest. Someone should ask him why he claims this.

That statement by him is not true at all.

Here in Trsteno ( Dubrovnik ) Arboretum, many of them are grown in full shade for hundreds of years and germinate freely ''wild'' without any problems, and they look just fine.

You can see some of them on this photos from Arboretum grown in shade.

Some more of them in shade.

That's what I thought too. I grow many of my trachycarpus in shade. The only exception is wagenrianus, full sun maximizes the waggie look that is so popular. Shade elongates the leaf too much on that species. But it's mostly an esthetic reason.

[Cikas]

Those pictures are amazing what a beautiful garden? How old is the garden?

These pictures are from Arboretum Trsteno ( Dubrovnik ). The Arboretum was founded in the 15th century ( 1498. ). It is the world oldest Arboretum.

The third and fourth seasons of ''Game of the thrones'' are filmed here.

[palm tree man]

Hey that makes me love Game of Thorns that much more!

[Brad Mondel]

Cool, I wanted to know where it was filmed. Beautiful Garden.

[JLeVert]

Trachycarpus look better in high shade in the Augusta, GA area. The high shade protects them from the wind, but more importantly, in sandy soil it lessens the possibility of nematode damage/death. All Trachy's in my sand need a lot of mulch and maybe even the addition of clay to the soil to keep them beautiful and alive.

T. fortunei 'Tesan' looks particularly good after this harsh winter. 'Manipur' was seriously defoliated after about 14F. The T. martianus in Savannah was damaged badly at 18F.

[palm tree man]

T. Martianus is probably the least cold tolerant trachy. There are several forms, I will have to look but one was reported to be more tolerant of frost. Mine have had more soil issues than anything else. Most of them like clay and I just have sandy loam for the most part. Princeps would be my pick but some of that is just personal preference. It is not as hardy as Takil for sure however.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

T. Martianus is probably the least cold tolerant trachy. There are several forms, I will have to look but one was reported to be more tolerant of frost. Mine have had more soil issues than anything else. Most of them like clay and I just have sandy loam for the most part. Princeps would be my pick but some of that is just personal preference. It is not as hardy as Takil for sure however.

I think latisectus is less cold tolerant than martianus. My latisectus is one of the only palms I grow that got cold damaged in my lower garden.

[palm tree man]

I have had more success with latisectus but again it was probably do to overhead canopy and soil augmentation. I can believe that they aren't as hardy though; you grow allot of rare palms Axel so if some of your dypsis didn't get damaged and the latisectus did during a cold event that is proof enough for me my friend.

[Tom GA]

Food for thought: here is a specimen of Trachycarpus takil at Plant Delights Nursery in Raleigh, NC. Tony Avent planted it in the garden in 1996 or so and it's been through quite a bit. It's probably as hardy as T. fortunei, though there are so few specimens anywhere (at least in the Southeastern USA) that it would be hard to make any blanket statements about T. takil at this point.

[stevethegator]

I need to get over to the Atlanta botanical gardens to see how their large takil did this winter. Mature fortunei are relatively undamaged so I'm sure it's probably ok.

In my experience tails are very finicky as seedlings (all of mine ended up dying after taking a year to germinate and then another year to grow a few leaves) but given takil's natural habitat I have no doubt that it has significant hardiness once it grows up

[Tom GA]

I have three in 5-gallon containers that I germinated and have grown up. They are the real deal. I got the seeds from Europalms...I think they are now out of business. In any case, I can't wait to plant them. I will not plant them at my home here on the Georgia coast but at some family property upstate abotu 40 miles south of Athens. That area is definitely Trachy country!

[stevethegator]

I have three in 5-gallon containers that I germinated and have grown up. They are the real deal. I got the seeds from Europalms...I think they are now out of business. In any case, I can't wait to plant them. I will not plant them at my home here on the Georgia coast but at some family property upstate abotu 40 miles south of Athens. That area is definitely Trachy country!

Nice! How cold did it get at the property this winter? 5F here in Atlanta plus two ice storms and even sabal palmettos survived.

I've always wanted to try a trachy somewhere in the southernmost areas of the blue ridge mountains. Call me crazy but there are a bunch of microclimates and I think it could be done! Haha

[Tom GA]

I think the absolute min there this winter was 9-10F. They had one ice/snow event...yuck.

Somewhere (in a drawer) I have photos of some really beautiful Trachycarpus near Toccoa with mountains in the background. There are quite a few in northeast Georgia. Climatalogically, even areas around Toccoa are about as warm as Atlanta, though their daytime highs are probably a little lower. But that wouldn't be a problem for Trachycarpus. I've seen some beautiful specimens in the mountains of South Carolina as well.

[Alicehunter2000]

So an easy to read "nutshell" here are the results so far............please add to the data and list with associated temps the species will first start showing damage, and also for the ultimate low one could reasonably expect survival with major damage. Feel free to cut and past using the following format. Also, for our folks that use Celsius...feel free to add to make it easy for you.

1st Damage DEATH

T.fortunei 'bulgaria' -10F

T. fortunei -4 F

T. fortunei 'naini tall' 0F .
T. Takil 0-5 F

T. nanus 5F
T. wagnerianus 5-10F

T. Martianus 'Nepal' form 15F

T. nova 15 F

T. ukhrulensis (syn. manipur) 15F

T. princeps 1F dry, 20F wet

T. oreophilus 12F dry, 20F

T. latisectus 15-20F

T. geminisectus 20F

T. martianus 'khasia form' 20F

T. fortunei 'winsan' 25F

T. oreophilus 25 F

[Tom GA]

I would definitely rank T. wagnerianus on par with fortunei. There is no difference in hardiness as far as I can see.

[palm tree man]

The Takagii hyrbrids that I had were all just as hardy as T. Fortunei and they were half Waggy! I have always heard that they are much better for areas with high winds or coastal areas. This has not been tested by myself, but it is just what I learned from a long time grower in California. There are some nice Trachy's at the Bamboo Farm too!

[stevethegator]

I'm skeptical of any trachy surviving -10F. Maybe one palm survived that once somewhere but I wouldn't bet on it I lived somewhere that it that cold regularly.

5F has already killed small fortuneis around town here and damaged some larger ones. Others seem unaffected.

Fortunei is a very variable species but 15 degrees difference in hardiness between cultivars? I think anything below zero F is risky even with the hardiest palms.

[stevethegator]

Somewhere (in a drawer) I have photos of some really beautiful Trachycarpus near Toccoa with mountains in the background. There are quite a few in northeast Georgia. Climatalogically, even areas around Toccoa are about as warm as Atlanta, though their daytime highs are probably a little lower. But that wouldn't be a problem for Trachycarpus. I've seen some beautiful specimens in the mountains of South Carolina as well.

Good to know! I usually travel to the Clayton/Dillard/Franklin NC area. It's borderline 7a/6b but the terrain is variable and there are a ton of microclimates in the area.

I've never seen palms anywhere up there, not even needles, but while Franklin got below zero this winter, Clayton stayed around 5F I believe so I know it's possible!

[Tom GA]

Next time you're up that way, stop by Toccoa.

[_Keith]

Trachycarpus look better in high shade in the Augusta, GA area. The high shade protects them from the wind, but more importantly, in sandy soil it lessens the possibility of nematode damage/death. All Trachy's in my sand need a lot of mulch and maybe even the addition of clay to the soil to keep them beautiful and alive.

T. fortunei 'Tesan' looks particularly good after this harsh winter. 'Manipur' was seriously defoliated after about 14F. The T. martianus in Savannah was damaged badly at 18F.

They look much better in shade in Louisiana as well. It gives them the break they need from our very hot summers.

[stevethegator]

Trachycarpus look better in high shade in the Augusta, GA area. The high shade protects them from the wind, but more importantly, in sandy soil it lessens the possibility of nematode damage/death. All Trachy's in my sand need a lot of mulch and maybe even the addition of clay to the soil to keep them beautiful and alive.

T. fortunei 'Tesan' looks particularly good after this harsh winter. 'Manipur' was seriously defoliated after about 14F. The T. martianus in Savannah was damaged badly at 18F.

They look much better in shade in Louisiana as well. It gives them the break they need from our very hot summers.

Same in Atlanta, the shade is very beneficial to trachies in summer and provides some shelter from winter exposure as well

[stevethegator]

Next time you're up that way, stop by Toccoa.

Will do!

[Tropical North]

Hi all,

I have a 10 foot (3 meter) T.Fortunei x T.Wagnerianus hybrid that has experienced -8F (-22c) this winter as well as multiple nights at zero Fahrenheit (-18c)

Although it was sheltered in an enclosure from wind and kept dry to avoid our actual temps that went down as low as -40 F (-40c) here in snowy Mississauga Canada, near Toronto.

the only damage is some brown tips on some of the fronds.

It looks pretty good considering.

I will add a picture as soon as I figure out how as I'm new here lol.

[Tropical North]

Here we go.

This picture was taken March 12th during a snow storm that deposited over a foot of snow and got down to 0 Fahrenheit (-18c)

The following 2 days were at around 8F (-13c)

[Tropical North]

Forgot to mention there is also a small silver European Fan palm at the base in the above picture.

It got a rose cone put over it later that day for a little protection.

[palm tree man]

All trachy's love a degree of shade here as well but they also love our rich sandy loam soal with some degree of augmentation at times. Honestly right above the "fall line" in Georgia is almost perfect for a Trachy. They love the soil and the climate.