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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

The rapidly disappearing ice

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Dypsisdean

Axel,

1) Before you so easily dismiss comments as if they come from "all you people who've never ever done any research" perhaps you should do a little research on those people first.

2) The type of research we are discussing here not only requires, but depends on data from satellite analysis, astronauts, oceanographers, statisticians, etc etc etc, all of whom have vested interests - sometimes obvious interests, but many times not. We are not talking simple research here where you construct a hypothesis, set up your controls, and begin your double blind study - but instead begin by analyzing data from people and sources who most likely have agendas - especially if they are corporate or governmental.

3) And to refer to human nature once again - people are very reticent to change their deeply held beliefs - and many times become irritated, and close their mind when challenged. And the scientific community is no different. History is replete with examples of scientifically accepted and "proven" facts that time and new knowledge rendured obsolete.

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Prominant scientists (IPCC) have politicized Global Warming/Climate change. Not very ethical or objective when they pick and choose the data.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2011/11/23/climategate-2-0-new-e-mails-rock-the-global-warming-debate/

Oh yeah, the E-mail raid, how could we forget. deadhorse.gif

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enigma99

... but instead begin by analyzing data from people and sources who most likely have agendas - especially if they are corporate or governmental.

Thank you for making that point. Also, after reading recent threads by the pro-global warmists, I'm shocked that their ideologies are borderline fascism. They may think that they are doing a service here to convert the "non-believers", but the truth is they are doing the exact opposite. Global warming was started by Maurice Strong (UN) as a method of global taxation and governance. Also, you warmists need to go back 100, 200, 300,000 years to really get enough "data points" to understand what is happening today. Even on the other thread, there wasn't much response to the interglacials. Just the typical, WE'VE GOT CREDENTIALS, so just shut up and accept it what we say is the truth

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_Keith

I have not stated whether or not I think there is global warming, or if I think there is, whether or not I think it is man-made. And while I have seen some evidence supporting various theories, I just have an issue with absolutes and absolute statements. Black/white absolute truth doesn’t exist in real science. Science seeks evidence to support or refute a hypothesis (or some other scientific principle like a theory). It’s all about the evidence (and the quality thereof), not about proving that it’s either this or that. Most principle investigators that I have known would not say we have man-made global warming or that we have irrefutable evidence. They may say that the evidence I have seen at this time points to,,,,,

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enigma99

Yeah, one Russian scientist has the little ice age theory, I posted a thread about that. A lone voice in the wilderness that gets amplified by bloggers desperate for any news suggesti g global warming is a hoax.

Alex, your google+ account has some interesting topics and a things I am into as well such as String theory, Quantum mechanics, etc. So I think it's just man caused global warming where we are in disagreement. Let's agree to disagree

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PALM MOD

I am very close to closing/deleting this thread. Only because it has run its course, and I don't see anything more productive or conclusive to come of it. I would prefer to quit while we are ahead.

So if anyone has an irresistible desire to make one last point, now is your chance.

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Mr. Coconut Palm

I remember as a boy growing up in Abilene, Texas in the 1970's, our skies were clearer and bluer than they are now on a "clear" day, even with the dust storms we would have there, we still had clearer skies more often than now. Now on a "clear" day in Texas, there is always a grey haze on the horizon, with the only exception being the day after a heavy rainfall in the area. About a month ago, here in Corpus Christi, I noticed a distinct smog layer hanging over the city on a "clear" day. I never saw that before when I would come here as a boy to visit my uncle and aunt.

Also, I am a certified diver, but mostly do a lot of snorkeling now in the warmer months. When I was younger, the warmest the Gulf would be in the Corpus Christi area was about 84F or 85F in July. In recent years the Gulf water temp here has reached 87F to 89F in the summer. In Galveston, the warmest the water would usually get to was 87F in July. At least twice in the last ten years, the Gulf water temp in Galveston has reached 90F and 91F, with many summers reaching 88F to 89F. That takes a huge amount of atmosperic heat above a giant body of water like the Gulf of Mexico to heat it up that much above normal. This winter, the Gulf water temp briefly dropped to 49F, when it normally wouldn't drop below about 55F. In 2012, we had one of the hottest years on record here in Texas, and for the past three years, we have had the worst drought on record in Texas. This winter has been unusually cold this far south.

I think it just stands to reason that after 150+ years of the Idustrial Revolution pumping pollution into the atmosphere, water, and land, that is going to have a significant effect on the climate and health of the environment. Since deregulation of industry here in Texas, our beaches are more polluted than ever, our waterways and groundwater are more polluted than ever, and our soils have more toxic chemicals in them than ever before. Fracking, used to get natural gas out of the Earth, is using huge amounts of water and very harmful chemicals to extract the gas and has had a devastating effect on groundwater here in Texas. Also, the fracking process appears to be literally cracking the Earth's mantle and causing new fault lines and fissures in the Earth's mantle that never existed before. There are even earthquakes being recorded in areas that have never experienced them before and worse earthquakes in areas that have small naturally occuring fault lines. I honestly think it is only big industry and their bought and paid for politicians that have a vested interest in denying man made climate change. Wake up and grow up people. We should be good stewards of this beautiful Earth we were blessed with, and not exploiting it and innocent people for the sake of corporate profit margins!

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

I say delete this thread, it's turned into a global warming bashing thread anyway. Nobody has even bothered to watch the video and make intelligent comments on it.

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DALION

I say delete this thread, it's turned into a global warming bashing thread anyway. Nobody has even bothered to watch the video and make intelligent comments on it.

I think people saw the video and if they looked at it without sound as I did the first time and again with sound they might omit politics from their arguments. I am not a believer of global warming or climate change or what ever the new catch phrase is but I do see that ice caps are melting. Things happen for a reason and "theories" are just guesses regardless who states them.

Didn't the smartest minds on the planet once believe the earth was the center of the solor system? And who thought the world was flat? Emart people are not always right.

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Zeeth

Didn't the smartest minds on the planet once believe the earth was the center of the solor system? And who thought the world was flat? Emart people are not always right.

Those weren't scientists. Those were religious zealots.

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Dypsisdean

Didn't the smartest minds on the planet once believe the earth was the center of the solor system? And who thought the world was flat? Emart people are not always right.

Those weren't scientists. Those were religious zealots.

Exactly, and today the religious zealots have been replaced with political zealots.

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amazondk

Axel,

I did comment that the video is very impressive. I also commented that it must have been an incredible sight when the last ice age ended. I am sure many events would have made that one a smaller show.

I agree with Dean that the issue of climate change has taken on a scope beyond simple science and has a lot of politics and economic around it. I do not believe that the fact the Earth is getting warmer or not is the issue. It is to what degree do humans influence it. And, what could be done within current technology and economic conditions to do anything about it. And, what cost will that have to humanity. We have colonized the sea shores of the world because they are some of the best places to live for many reasons. But, we did that without taking the history of the Earth into account. Sea shores have never been static. They have always moved up and down. And, this has been due over the course of the ice age era, which we appear still to be in, to melting or advancing ice.

There is a part of Afro Brazilian religion (Candomblé) called Jogo de Buzios. This is where the spiritual master of Candomblé (the religion) throws sea shells on a table. From the shells he or she has insights into the future. Sometimes they can be quite accurate. Maybe more so than the IPCC climate models. I also can not remember seeing a realistic proposal as to what can be done to truly mitigate any man made changes to climate. It is to man's best interest to take the best care of his home as possible though, It is after all the only one we have.

Jogo-de-B%C3%BAzios-em-Curitiba_49265_im

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Dypsisdean

I also can not remember seeing a realistic proposal as to what can be done to truly mitigate any man made changes to climate.

Don - the main part of the proposal that we are lead to believe is the answer is simple --- impose more taxes.

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amazondk

And, that would go along with more government, right?

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tjwalters

Folks you are treading into dangerous territory if you want this thread to live on. Remember politics is off limits on PT. Best to stick to the science, or lack thereof.

"Skating on thin ice" might be the appropriate metaphor.

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Sabal Steve

I visited Chicago in January and there was ice on Lake Michigan. When I went back in August I noticed that it was gone. It was at that point that I became concerned.

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PALM MOD

I am closing this now. Enough is enough.

Thanks for proving that we can have discussions, and have differences of opinion, without making it personal.

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