Sea Grape Hedge

[spockvr6]

What do you guys think is the minimum width a Sea Grape hedge could reasonably be maintained at?

[spockvr6]

Unfortunately, I dont have a newer pic handy, but here is one from sometime last summer showing where I planted the Seagrapes in an attempt to make a hedge.  They have obviously grown quite a bit since then (prpbably doubled) and I am wondering if I should still try and keep them in bounds and train them into a formed hedge.  I have seen some trained as such, but many times they seem a bit unhappy and sparse (since this shrub wants to get bigger).

What do you guys think?  Yank em or keep em?  I paid very little for these plants (probably less than $25 for the whole hedge), so there will be no $ loss (and I can probably transplant them to another area.

[spockvr6]

And...as a final question......

How easily do these take to transplanting?  Im sure the smaller ones can be moved easily.

But, I have bigger one in back that I might also like to move and its got some thicker trunks (maybe 3" or so).

[junglegalfla]

Larry,

I have a large seagrape. I just don't think they would make a suitable hedge. These are fast growers, get very large and can be messy. Mine is always dropping it's leaves and when they fall in my beds, they cover plants quickly because of their size. I think you're underestimating what that area is going to look like in a year or two. Also, unless if is 8 ft plus onto your property line, your neighbor may no appreciate having to maintain their side and raking their leaves up. Just food for thought.

JG

[spockvr6]

Junglegal-

Thank you very much for your input.  It is appreciated (and I was leaning in your direction when I made this post).

[Dave-Vero]

I pretty much ratify junglegalfla's view.  The best way to control sea grapes seems to be to burn them to the ground every few years (Sebastian Inlet State Park does exactly that.  Makes for a nice landscape of sea oats, silver palmettos, and sea grapes.  Ahhh).  Larger yards in Vero Beach have a fair number of clipped seagrapes, but they seem to do better as rather wide clumps maybe 3-4 feet high, rather than as hedges.

If you'd like a fairly tall hedge, Simpson stopper (Myrcianthes fragrans) is native, hardy, faster growing than you'd think (they never put out long shoots, but they're always adding some new leaves, so they sneak up on you), and the leaves are beautiful.  They ultimately make small trees with bark like crape myrtes or jaboticabas (the latter are in the same family, Myrtaceae).  Coco plums can always be whackec into hedge form.

I would bet that sea grapes transplant easily.

[Really full garden]

Larry ,I have a 125 foot Sea Grape hedge.Its difficult to keep it less than about four feet wide.They need full sun and look best from a distance.They need pruning every two weeks (new foliage is red-pink)and butchered once a year.They are a lot of work and I have two full time gardeners.

                                                         Scott

[SubTropicRay]

Larry,

Tons of plants will do well in our area as a hedge.  Why Sea Grapes?  To a lesser degree, it's like trying to make a hedge out of Live Oaks.  If you want a tropical look, Ixora is a decent choice.  

Ray

[spockvr6]

(Ray, Tampa @ Feb. 20 2007,20:44)

QUOTE

Larry,

Tons of plants will do well in our area as a hedge.  Why Sea Grapes?

Because I got a bunch of good sized ones for practically nothing

Plus, I do like the "look" they offer.

But, in the end I have to sometimes realize that my small residential lot is not well suited to certain plants, and this is likely one of them, especially as a hedge.

[spockvr6]

(scottgt @ Feb. 20 2007,18:05)

QUOTE

Larry ,I have a 125 foot Sea Grape hedge.Its difficult to keep it less than about four feet wide.They need full sun and look best from a distance.They need pruning every two weeks (new foliage is red-pink)and butchered once a year.They are a lot of work and I have two full time gardeners.

                                                         Scott

Scott-

Thank you for the advice.

I only have one part time gardener here (and hes typing this post   ), so I need to take that into consideration as well.

The "look best from a ditance" part is the clincher for me as there is no way that can be achieved with my small lot.

[SubTropicRay]

Larry,

Plant one and sell the rest.

Ray

[epicure3]

If you are away from the coast, sea grape really wants to become a tree....just like ficus benjamina...which also make terrible hedges.

[SubTropicRay]

John,

It's very true what you say about F. benjamina.  Unfortunately, it's too late for thousands of people in south Florida.

Ray

[spockvr6]

(Ray, Tampa @ Feb. 20 2007,23:08)

QUOTE

Larry,

Plant one and sell the rest.

Ray

I dont think Ive ever sold a plant in my life!

Buy, I am good at buying them

What I plan to do is move all of these Seagrapes (I believe I have 6-8 of them in this hedgerow), and plant them all as a semi-cluster in a certain area of my yard previously used for a banana patch.   6-8 will be too many over the long run, but this will allow them to fill the area more quickly.  I will then thin them out when they get bigger.

I have a single bigger Seagrape in the backyard that would be 15 ft tall by now if I have not kept topping it back 3-4 times a year.  But, this one is close to a Bismarckia and to get enough roots for the Seagrape to transplant I fear I might disturb the Bismarckia roots too much.  So, as much as I hate to kill plants (no rope light jokes please!), I will likely just chop this one down.

[SunnyFl]

(spockvr6 @ Feb. 21 2007,08:34)

QUOTE

I dont think Ive ever sold a plant in my life!

Buy, I am good at buying them

Hey, same here!  

I would lovvvve to have a seagrape in my backyard collection - but I'm worried about it sending up shoots all over the place.  It does that, doesn't it?  Any way to control it, or is it only around the base of the plant?

I think the best use of sea-grape would be as an accent toward the back of the garden - their leaves are so striking.  But as for native plants to use as hedges, I second the coco-plum suggestion.  Don't have any myself (yet), but I've seen them used quite nicely.  The stoppers are good choices, too.

Ficus benjamina makes a terrible hedge, what a problem it becomes.  But there's a native ficus that may be better, forgot its name though.

[spockvr6]

(SunnyFl @ Feb. 22 2007,07:10)

QUOTE

I would lovvvve to have a seagrape in my backyard collection -

If you want a some.....youre welcome to a couple of mine.  I will be digging them out this weekend.

[spockvr6]

(SunnyFl @ Feb. 22 2007,07:10)

QUOTE

but I'm worried about it sending up shoots all over the place.  It does that, doesn't it?  Any way to control it, or is it only around the base of the plant?

I havent noticed it being a "runner" per se, but it does want to get wide.  Most of the shoots seem to go up and out, eventually leaning over and thus adding the width.

[spockvr6]

(SunnyFl @ Feb. 22 2007,07:10)

QUOTE

 But as for native plants to use as hedges, I second the coco-plum suggestion.  

Absolutely...these are wonderful hedge plants.  The front of my yard (along the sidewalk) is lined with the red tipped variety.  

Starting from he most available 3 gallon size, thye grow fast enough to make a respectable hedge in about 1.5-2 years, but not so fast as to be a maintenance nightmare as far as trimming goes.

But, left completely to their own devices, these plants will get big and tall as well.

[junglegalfla]

Sunny,

My sea grape has never sent out runners. Biggest complaint is the shedding of leaves. The leaves cover the yard in no time and because of their size, take forever to decay. I have mine cut back every year, if i didn't do this, it would be gigantic!

[spockvr6]

(junglegalfla @ Feb. 22 2007,09:35)

QUOTE

I have mine cut back every year, if i didn't do this, it would be gigantic!

You mean like this Junglegal?

[BobbyinNY]

Why not Bamboo??? They make a great hedge, and are hardy as hell... I planted min last spring, and they're as green as can be - and they look very tropical.

[spockvr6]

(BobbyinNY @ Feb. 22 2007,10:28)

QUOTE

Why not Bamboo??? They make a great hedge, and are hardy as hell... I planted min last spring, and they're as green as can be - and they look very tropical.

Bamboo = big NY style bucks Bobby!

hehehehehehe

I think I am going to put a line of Dypsis lutescens along this row.   A local grower has a bunch of them which were grown from single seedlings, and as such many of them have 3-4 trunks per pot and all are in a line.  As such, they have a similar from (in a generalized sense) as something like a Travellers Tree.  So, these will work well with the width requirements of this area.

[BobbyinNY]

Bamboo = big NY style bucks Bobby

are u serious, Larry? Is it that expensive down there....  It was kinda pricey here when I bought it.. I got the Golden Bamboo in (3) different 9in pots. there were $90.00 each, and were about 4ft high with 3-4 canes in each pot.. The nursery told me to plant them about 3 ft apart and within a couple years, I'd have a nice tropical hedge...

[junglegalfla]

Larry,

Yes, that is the monster mine longs to be some day!

I curse my tree this time of year because of it's messiness but it really is a great looking tree! That one is in Orlando isn't it? I thought I saw Eric post that a while ago. Beautiful speciman!

[spockvr6]

(junglegalfla @ Feb. 22 2007,11:11)

QUOTE

That one is in Orlando isn't it? I thought I saw Eric post that a while ago. Beautiful speciman!

This one is in Bradenton.  I would suspect that they would have a hard time getting to this size in Orlando.

I did a serious doubletake when driving by as I had never seen them this large before.

[spockvr6]

(BobbyinNY @ Feb. 22 2007,10:52)

QUOTE

Bamboo = big NY style bucks Bobby

are u serious, Larry? Is it that expensive down there....  It was kinda pricey here when I bought it.. I got the Golden Bamboo in (3) different 9in pots. there were $90.00 each, and were about 4ft high with 3-4 canes in each pot.. The nursery told me to plant them about 3 ft apart and within a couple years, I'd have a nice tropical hedge...

Yes...bamboo is generally pricey down here as well.

I would estimate that, to fill this same area I am talking about with bamboo rather than the Dypsis would cost 3-4 times as much.  Plus, one has to be careful about certain bamboos taking over with runners, etc.

That, coupled with the fact that I think Ill like the "look" of the Dypsis trunks better, makes me want to go this way.

[Dave-Vero]

Dypsis can be controlled by removing stems, but hedges of it can get enormously big.  Even Rhapis hedges can get pretty big, but that's getting impossibly expensive.  Sort of a project for the next generation.

[spockvr6]

(Dave-Vero @ Feb. 22 2007,12:14)

QUOTE

Dypsis can be controlled by removing stems, but hedges of it can get enormously big.  

Thats OK with me.....all the BIG will be UP!

The width of the "hedge" at the bases will be less than a foot.

[spockvr6]

(Dave-Vero @ Feb. 22 2007,12:14)

QUOTE

Even Rhapis hedges can get pretty big, but that's getting impossibly expensive.

I have seen some houses in the old part of Tarpon Springs that have yards almost completely full of the largest Rhapis hedges I have ever seen.  I guess some folks planted a few stems eons ago and they took over.  I can only imagine what they are worth now!  

I will take some pics sometime and post them.

[Dave-Vero]

Of all things, I spotted a slender seagrape hedge about 4 feet tall not far from my house.  I might possibly have a photo tomorrow.  I suspect it gets pruned a couple of times a month.

I should  also go around and photo some examples of City-owned palms on streets and in parks that are benefitting from being trimmed less often.  The Sabal palmetto are looking far happier and even Syagrus romanzoffiana looks a lot better when it has leaves.

[SunnyFl]

(Dave-Vero @ Feb. 28 2007,19:19)

QUOTE

Of all things, I spotted a slender seagrape hedge about 4 feet tall not far from my house.  I might possibly have a photo tomorrow.  I suspect it gets pruned a couple of times a month.

I should  also go around and photo some examples of City-owned palms on streets and in parks that are benefitting from being trimmed less often.  The Sabal palmetto are looking far happier and even Syagrus romanzoffiana looks a lot better when it has leaves.

Hehe - they do tend to look better with leaves

Glad to hear they're not victims of overzealous pruning.  They look so much better without that.

Hope you do post the photos, would like to see the sea-grape hedge.  I saw one down in Naples - not too far from Driftwood Garden Center.  Very nice, with an underplanting of S. arboricola variegata.  Looked like a bit high-maintenance, but worth it if they can be kept looking like that.

[Bilbo]

Hedges eh?

Many years ago in Japan there lived a wise teacher of wisdom who moved to a magnificent new garden with spectacular coastal views.

Everyone wanted to know what he had made of that remarkable situation and so they visited . . .

Well all they saw was greenery and NO coastal views . . .  until they came to a tiny gap under which they had to bow to gain access . . . and then there was indeed a spectacular coastal view.

Maybe sometimes less is more?

I think Kris will understand.

Regardez

Juan

[gsn]

Bilbo,

Coastal views ,rolling hills,forests, streams, meadows, all can provide great views from ones garden without question.

However the neighbors across the street, or next door,with their rusty swing sets, above ground pools, junk cars up on blocks,ect. sometimes defeats the purpose of ones garden,if those views are not hidden! ::

Plus some just like a degree of privacy in a more urban setting!