Anybody growing heliconia outside in CA ... a few blooming for me

[Jesse]

Here is another one to add to the list.  "Puerto Rico Libre" 

When I found this at the local garden center less than a year ago I really took a chance on it since I doubted it would grow here.  I know we have had a couple mild winters with a low down to I think 35 but this one is in partial shade in a wind protected area and is a heavy clumper. Even through the winter it has put out new shoots. It's apparently loving the heat and all the extra water I'm giving it. I'm very hopeful that this one will work out long term.

[raimeiken]

How hot has it gotten over there? 

I have the "Fire and ice" heliconia I recently got from a member here growing nicely underneath my orange tree here in AZ. Surprisly hasn't burned up even in 115f temps. 

I also just purchase a few more heliconias. I should be getting them tomorrow. I hope they'll do well here. Planning to plant them in protected areas of my garden.

Heliconia 'Rauliana'

Heliconia 'Hot Rio Nites'

Heliconia 'Jacquinii'

 

All three supposed to have some cold tolerance.

[jimmyt]

Ok you "heliconians".   Does anybody have any advice for getting these plants to flower?   I grow them in large nursery tubs and they get luscious big and over-run the tub. But never bloom.  I have fertilized with standard, and blooming fertilizer regularly but no blooms are a bustin'.  It is hot where I live in summer with 40% or less humidity, and freezes in winter.  Non-hardy plants go into the heated greenhouse over winter.  The heliconias and gingers will grow planted in the ground but freeze back each year but come back the next.  This is why I grow them in the tubs so that I can maintain the second year or older growth.  I like the foliage but would love the flowers......

Anybody got any advice, ideas, criticism, anything?   

Signed,  exhausted in Texas,

jimmyt

[Josue Diaz]

3 hours ago, raimeiken said:

How hot has it gotten over there? 

I have the "Fire and ice" heliconia I recently got from a member here growing nicely underneath my orange tree here in AZ. Surprisly hasn't burned up even in 115f temps. 

I also just purchase a few more heliconias. I should be getting them tomorrow. I hope they'll do well here. Planning to plant them in protected areas of my garden.

Heliconia 'Rauliana'

Heliconia 'Hot Rio Nites'

Heliconia 'Jacquinii'

 

All three supposed to have some cold tolerance.

Very cool! Glad to know your heliconia rhizomes made it and are growing.

[Jesse]

3 hours ago, raimeiken said:

How hot has it gotten over there?

We had a couple heat waves recently that I recorded as two days at 109 and a couple days around 105.  Its been very hot the rest of the time, mostly 90s, and I have had little burn except for some freshly opened leaves that I believe weren't hardened off yet.  I've been really cranking up the water to keep them from drying out.

@jimmyt How long have they been in nursery tubs?  Is it possible some varieties may be closer related to gingers in that they send out immature shoots that never bloom before mature shoots are produced? How much sun are they getting? I have been told that some varieties need a lot of sun to bloom. I use a dripper fertigation system to water so it's possible the constant supply of nutrients is helping.

[jimmyt]

@Jesse  They have been in the tubs for 3 years. I have tried them in full sun, and this year in part shade.  The full Texas sun seemed to burn them a little too much and heated up the tubs too hot so I moved them into the part shade. Also out in the open the wind shears the delicate leaves and dries the edges.  Hottest day for me has been 114 so far and generally from July through August will average just around 100.  This year as most of the western US are having a drought so I am watering frequently.  Maybe you are right.  Maybe I need more frequent fertilizer.   What N-P-K do you use on them?  I have been applying fertilizer about every 10 days since spring.

jimmyt

[metalfan]

On 6/4/2018, 1:55:51, BS Man about Palms said:

Time for me to remove large amounts of the Scheideana if anyone wants some..

I'd take a few rhizomes! Will pay postage!

[Jesse]

@jimmyt I use a water soluble 23-13-8 Ferti-Maxx landscape fertilizer.

@BS Man about Palms I wish I had more room otherwise I would take some.

[jimmyt]

6 hours ago, Jesse said:

@jimmyt I use a water soluble 23-13-8 Ferti-Maxx landscape fertilizer.

@Jesse

Hmm......   Maybe I will try to find a fertilizer close to the Ferti-Maxx, N-P-K and give them a dose.......

Thanks Jesse

[mnorell]

On 8/9/2018, 3:23:32, jimmyt said:

Ok you "heliconians".   Does anybody have any advice for getting these plants to flower?   I grow them in large nursery tubs and they get luscious big and over-run the tub. But never bloom.  I have fertilized with standard, and blooming fertilizer regularly but no blooms are a bustin'.  It is hot where I live in summer with 40% or less humidity, and freezes in winter.  Non-hardy plants go into the heated greenhouse over winter.  The heliconias and gingers will grow planted in the ground but freeze back each year but come back the next.  This is why I grow them in the tubs so that I can maintain the second year or older growth.  I like the foliage but would love the flowers......

Anybody got any advice, ideas, criticism, anything?   

Signed,  exhausted in Texas,

jimmyt

Hi Jimmy--

I  have tested over a hundred heliconia species/cultivars over the years in southern California, the Gulf South and the Florida Keys. I did most of that testing at my garden in Natchez, Mississippi (9a), and while your climate is rather different due to the intense heat, sun and lower humidity, I can give you a quick rundown, as there are very few that can make it in the frosty semi-tropical southeast U.S. With some careful attention to the differences in your climate I would think you could have similar results in 8b/9a Texas (e.g., Austin).

The proven performers (in order of cold hardiness and flowering in a season) are:
- Heliconia 'Mexican Gold' (far and away the best and has returned/bloomed every year even after a dip to the low teens), blooms Sep-Nov
- Heliconia latispatha 'Distans' (may die/rot below 20F), blooms Sep-Nov
- Heliconia latispatha (large orange-red forms) (may die/rot below 20F), blooms Aug-Nov
- Heliconia lingulata (may die/rot below 20F), blooms Aug-Nov

As annual or plunged/greenhoused plants go, you can of course plunge H. psittacorum every year and it will bloom all summer. H. angusta ('Christmas' red/yellow/orange) are pretty hardy and bloom in a season but not until Thanksgiving/Christmas so will be frozen back by the time they thrown blooms. Forms of H. rostrata are fairly hardy and will come back after mild winters but will refuse to bloom as stalks must overwinter. But they do very well in large containers wintered in the greenhouse.

Please note that the hardy single-season bloomers must be placed in FULL SUN (perhaps a bit of afternoon shade where you are) or they cannot throw enough leaves to initiate and finish an inflorescence before the end of the season. Start your rhizomes in a hot, sunny spot in containers filled with COARSE sand, with just a bit of peat/perlite/fertilizer, such as Miracle-Gro Potting Mix, mixed in.

Avoid any of the tropical stalwarts such as H. bihai or H. caribaea, as tempting as they may be. They are either not hardy or extraordinarily marginal outside of South Florida and the tropics, no matter what any websites (including one major and very misinformed company in Hawai'i) may tell you. H. subulata and H. schiedeana are easy and cold-hardy but you won't see them bloom unless they are greenhoused.

Plant in slightly raised beds in nice loamy, well-aerated soil and be generous with high N and K fertilizers and lots of water during the growing season. If you like, you could also cover the bed with solid black plastic in winter to warm the roots and stop cold rain from penetrating. I would think that would give you the best chance at results. Good luck!

[raimeiken]

Fantastic info thanks! I wish you posted a couple days ago before my purchase from that Hawaii nursery. All three that I got are Bihai type and all said they're cold tolerant. I guess we'll see. We've had some pretty mild winters lately here, so I'm not so worried.

[jimmyt]

@mnorell  Thanks so much for heliconia lesson.  I will take your information forward for the betterment of my heliconia.   This was more than I could have hoped for.

I would think that any heliconia grower could benefit from your knowledge.  Thank you for sharing......

jimmyt

 

[raimeiken]

Just got my heliconias in the mail this afternoon and they are big! I wasnt expecting this size of rhizomes. 

 

Do you guys think these can be split up into two? Or should I just leave them be and plant them? 

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, raimeiken said:

Just got my heliconias in the mail this afternoon and they are big! I wasnt expecting this size of rhizomes. 

 

Do you guys think these can be split up into two? Or should I just leave them be and plant them? 

Nice starter plants!.. I myself would give them a year to add some additional new growth points, then divide. Have tried separating smaller starters like this in the past with mixed results..

[mnorell]

Don't split those plants right now. Put them in a bucket of nice warm water for a few days (many will even sprout this way if you have consistent warmth). But the safest thing is to soak them first, then prepare pots of very coarse sand with some sterile organic material and a little time-release fertilizer mixed in...put them just deep enough so they are level with the color-change at the base of the stem. In the Phoenix area I would guess you might just want them to have sun in the morning at this time of year so they don't completely cook. Water liberally as the sand will prevent pooling and fungal problems. Be patient...it can be weeks before you see any kind of action above ground. Who knows, you might have some better luck with these outside. 'Hot Rio Nites' in particular, as it is a pretty strong hybrid. I had it survive one winter in Natchez as I remember so you may get it through. But there are always problems wherever you go. Now in the Keys I deal not with cold but with the high pH of our "soil" (read: coral rock) and our herd of Key Deer, who look at Heliconias like Famous Amos cookies. 'Hot Rio Nites' is subject to chlorosis in basic substrates so be prepared for that in your neck of the woods. Straight H. bihai has for me the least trouble with limestone conditions but of course it hates the cold.

Where lowland southern Arizona (and Coachella/Imperial Valley areas) are better off than coastal SoCal from the point-of-view of a lowland tropical plant is that despite the dangers of the summer sun and cooking temps you have only a three-month winter, but out near the Pacific they have a six-month winter (including the cold foggy season called "spring") and that is what will do them in. That's why some of the very high-elevation species do well at the coast while the lowland forms just sulk or rot away, coconut-style, with a few exceptions.

Just remember that you still won't see any flowering on these unless you can keep them above freezing all winter long (sometimes they also just fade away and "reset" every spring no matter how hard you try after a cool winter). Bihai is a tough species to keep going in non-tropicalish places, though some of the hybrids can be stronger. Heliconias are such wonderful plants but so many of them are just so darned frustrating because we all want them to be as hardy as a Hedychium ginger or a canna. At least they are hardier than Etlingera or Alpinia purpurata! If you order more, try latispatha and hybrids with latispatha, and perhaps straight rostrata as it is pretty strong and soil-tolerant and might take the short winters in Phoenix. Also 'Pedro Ortiz' is strong but may dislike the desert sun and low humidity. Keep trying and you may find the magic bullet!

[raimeiken]

thanks for all the info. I'll keep them as is and not divide them. I'll plant them with some sand to keep drainage good. 

Do you know of any other good online nurseries to buy from? And do you know of any that tolerates low humidity better than others? 

[Josue Diaz]

H. scheidiana continues to actively grow theough cool weather. we haven't been above 65F for several weeks. Here is my tallest unfurling a new leaf

[raimeiken]

The one you sent me has been growing steadily as well. I'm surprised, I thought these would stop growing in this cold weather.

[Ben in Norcal]

Schiediana does so well here it develops huge clumps.  I end up using unwanted growth as mulch!

[Palm Tree Jim]

1 hour ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Schiediana does so well here it develops huge clumps.  I end up using unwanted growth as mulch!

Grows year round hear in Southern CA. And it can take over a part of the garden with no problem.

[Josue Diaz]

4 hours ago, raimeiken said:

The one you sent me has been growing steadily as well. I'm surprised, I thought these would stop growing in this cold weather.

that's great to hear! With the heat you get in summer, I imagine it will grow very well for you. 

3 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Schiediana does so well here it develops huge clumps.  I end up using unwanted growth as mulch!

Yeah, i'm beginning to think it will for me also. These were divisions from a friend's massive clump which he no longer wanted. His place is a bit colder than mine so he was never able to get these to bloom. Hence, the need for removal. 

2 hours ago, Palm Tree Jim said:

Grows year round hear in Southern CA. And it can take over a part of the garden with no problem.

it would be really neat if someone developed hybrids with scheidiana and some of the showier species, given how reliable this one is in CA. 

[Josue Diaz]

I know I've said it before, but scheidiana is proving to be such a good grower for me in Fresno. Pics are from yesterday after a particularly wet and cold winter season. 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Josue Diaz

[raimeiken]

Over here as well. We've had a colder and wetter winter this year and this heliconia haven't stop growing.  I wanna spread more of it around other parts of my yard.

 

The others though that I got from plantgrouphawaii above didn't fair so well. One rotted, two just recently died back, but I think the rhizomes are still good. I hope they'll come back this spring.

[raimeiken]

H. Schiedeana 'Fire and Ice' survived another hot summer here and really starting to clump. I dug up a few shoots to spread more around the yard to see how much sun it can handle.

 

I want to try more of these hardy ones listed in this topic like the Mexican Gold, Coral Surprise, Pedro Ortiz, Dwarf Rostrata, Lingulata, and Latisphata. If anyone have any rhizomes to share/sell, PM me please

[T Durden 9b]

Hope you guys don't mind me reviving this thread! I'd love to know how your plants are doing? ( @raimeiken ? @Josue Diaz ?). Any additional suggestions for heliconias able to grow in California?

@mnorell -- I really appreciated your rundown above! Such great info! If you have any updates or current suggestions, I'd love to hear them!

I'm in the North Bay of NorCal with a protected patio that I tent in the winter nights as well as an unheated greenhouse that I can move things into. I've had H. schiediana for about 4 years and successfully split it a few times, but haven't been able to get it to bloom (yet!). I'm still trying different places around the yard to see where it grows the best. My plants outside (including a smaller H. schiediana that I split off a year or two ago) all somehow survived a 27° hard freeze last January! I can attest that H. schiediana is cold tolerant. Now I'm looking to try some others!

Thx in advance!

[Josue Diaz]

5 hours ago, T Durden 9b said:

Hope you guys don't mind me reviving this thread! I'd love to know how your plants are doing? ( @raimeiken ? @Josue Diaz ?). Any additional suggestions for heliconias able to grow in California?

@mnorell -- I really appreciated your rundown above! Such great info! If you have any updates or current suggestions, I'd love to hear them!

I'm in the North Bay of NorCal with a protected patio that I tent in the winter nights as well as an unheated greenhouse that I can move things into. I've had H. schiediana for about 4 years and successfully split it a few times, but haven't been able to get it to bloom (yet!). I'm still trying different places around the yard to see where it grows the best. My plants outside (including a smaller H. schiediana that I split off a year or two ago) all somehow survived a 27° hard freeze last January! I can attest that H. schiediana is cold tolerant. Now I'm looking to try some others!

Thx in advance!

My canes on my Pedro Ortiz hybrid died to the ground because of the prolonged cold, but I'm seeing new canes coming up. My scheidiana have yet to bloom for me, but they didn't die back or have any effect from the prolonged winter we just had. Others here in Fresno get scheidiana to bloom every year but I think they give their plants more sun than I do. We didn't go below 34F but we were in the mid30s for lows and mod 50s for a high for a very long time. And we had lots of rain at those temps