MAJOR CHANGES FOR PALMTALK ????? PLEASE READ AND HEED

[PALM MOD]

Most of you are already aware of this news via another topic started by Ken Johnson - an IPS Director. I want to make some clarifications, and a plea to all those concerned.

The BOD has not decided or contemplated "closing" PT. But they have voted for and/or asked for discussion about some things that IMO could seriously change the personality of PT to the point of becoming a shell of what it is now. They voted to have the PM feature turned off in 30 days. And the President has also asked for the following - "I also want the PT committee to look into a trial period of free use (w/out PM provision) for anyone and after such period, they join the IPS or get locked out."

I strongly disagree with both of these concepts. And I am sure many here share that opinion. However, please remember that each and every Director is a person like you, passionately involved with palms, and they are dedicating their free time to make the IPS better. You may disagree with some policies and decisions, but that is no excuse to be anything but polite and respectful when talking to or about these Directors.

So PLEASE, it is okay to disagree and to express your displeasure with any decision. And remember, if you are an IPS Member these people are your representatives. Either you voted for them, or you allowed them to be voted in. So use your position as an IPS Member to tell them what you think - but do it with the upmost courtesy. And if you disagree strongly enough, your vote is the loudest message you will be able to send.

[DoomsDave]

Well said, Dean.

You're still the best Mod.

[MattyB]

Meaning that you have to pay to use palmtalk? Or pay to use the pm feature?

[MattyB]

30 days is not enough time for a normal person getting into palms and who finds palmtalk to make them want to join the IPS. It's like they're trying to monetize the forum. It'll never work. Very off putting. I predict membership will decline. I know I will not renew my membership if these changes take effect.

[MattyB]

People will end up migrating over to Palmpedia's Forum or to Planet Palm or some other group on Facebook. This spells death to this forum.

[MattyB]

Someone had a good point in another thread. People will just start a thread to PM someone making for a messy forum.

[PalmnutVN]

I agree with Matt!

I was a board 'voyeur' for almost 2 years before I decided to join this forum and get involved and it was only recently

that I decided to take the plunge and become an IPS member.

Ok, maybe some restrictions could be applied to non IPS members, i.e the amount of posts they can leave on the

boards or preventing access to certain features, but blocking non members completely or removing features that

many people enjoy using is simply self defeating and will result in a mass exodus to another forum or board.

[turfpro01]

I can see where they are coming from. This is the IPS forums. And blocking pm to get people to join isn't a big deal.

Giving people a free 30 day trail and them blocking them from the site is a bad idea and will stop new people from even coming here. It will also block information from google searches , that draw people here.

Does this message board cost the IPS money? Do they have something else they think is better for the IPS money to be spent on?

[MattyB]

If they are worried about being liable because the IPS is hosting PMs that can be used to set up illegal plant deals then would they shut down the For Sale forum as well? If not, then people could just put their contact info in the post like most do anyways. I'm confused.

[Kostas]

As Dean says,disabling the PM feature takes all the personality of the forum,the chance to make friendships and members to get to know each other. This cant be good at all. How many IPS members not on PalmTalk do we all know? I know none! And why? Because how can i get to know someone from just a name on IPS members list????? How is this promoting palms,knowledge and their cultivation? How are PRA's set up with members from all over the world? Mostly via pm. So that would not be a good move. The liability issue needs to be worked out somewhat,there are so so many plant forums on the net with pms that i dont see why PalmTalk should remain without. So a good question would be,what keeps those other forums free to use pms without getting legal problems?

[Gonzer]

Promoting politics instead of palms is nastier than Lethal Yellowing.

[Kim]

It would be a very good idea for the PalmTalk membership (IPS or not) to become more educated about the relationship between the IPS and PalmTalk. You will find a lot of information in the top forum, IPS - International Palm Society. Minutes from the board meeting will be posted there when they become available, and the financial statement for the IPS will be published in Palms at some future date.

We have a nice little palm playground here; while it is free for anyone to use, it is not FREE. The IPS will spend $11,200 on PalmTalk in 2014. This is partially offset by advertising revenue, so far from a single source, of $1,900. In 2012 advertising revenue was $4,000, but some have elected not to renew. You will recall the PalmTalk fundraiser in January 2013, which was very successful, raising about $1,900 in donations, plus additional funds from book sales, new memberships, and early renewals, bringing the total closer to $4,800.

As a Director on the Board, I take the position that PalmTalk is the best advertising for the IPS that money can buy. I also take the position that PalmTalk does an extraordinarily good job of fulfilling the Education role for the IPS Mission Statement. I also take the position that PalmTalk is the very best way to make the IPS truly international. I am only one voice on the Board, and while there are several others with similar opinions, we are in the minority, sad to say.

In the last election, even with a contested election for one Directorship, there were under 100 votes cast. If you want to be part of the solution, please, vote for the candidates who participate on PalmTalk. We have tremendous strength here, but it goes untapped. Your vote can really, truly make a difference.

It is not good enough to participate here and ignore the organization that supports PalmTalk. In the IPS forum, (top of main page) I described my work on the Board and asked for nomination from you, the PalmTalk membership. While several people thanked me for my service not a single person has offered to nominate me. Apathy will not help PalmTalk to survive. Please participate in the Board selection process, don't think someone else is going to do it for you. It is all in your hands.

[waykoolplantz]

If the IPS is to survive they need to understand marketing...which sadly they do not.

Some years ago I proposed developing the IPS as a brand...this was not understood, therefore not embraced.

I see a value to both gardens and resorts in IPS "certification" and feel it may be one of the better ways to introduce palms and educate the general public.

[Xhoniwaters1]

It would be like America giving away Hawaii to Russia. NOOOO

[www.dadluvsu.com]

If the IPS is to survive they need to understand marketing...which sadly they do not.

Some years ago I proposed developing the IPS as a brand...this was not understood, therefore not embraced.

I can seriously relate to that...

Palmtalk is the best asset the IPS has to reach the masses. If the IPS wants to be a snooty hoity toity snob club full of nerds who want to look at microscopes and not the people and princes of the plant kingdom that make up the majority of the IPS then by all means go ahead and wreck Palmtalk. I for one will not support such an organization.

I can say with all certainty that this kind of infighting and lack of direction turned me off to the IPS, and who had more enthusiasm than me?! (don't worry palm lovers, palms will be a part of the farm, IPS or not)

[Tomw]

Does anyone have a copy of the IPS mission statement that they could share? I would like to know what is in it.

[Shirleypalmpaws]

As of just a while ago, I became a member of IPS and will vote for PalmTalk people! Be sure to inform me to know who you are.

[_Keith]

If the IPS is to survive they need to understand marketing...which sadly they do not.

Some years ago I proposed developing the IPS as a brand...this was not understood, therefore not embraced.

I see a value to both gardens and resorts in IPS "certification" and feel it may be one of the better ways to introduce palms and educate the general public.

I and others have offered advice and ideas on this over the years. Monetizing PT or IPS is not rocket science. IPS is scared of everything, most prominently they are scared of change. I do not mean this in a derogatory manor, it is simply evident by action, or lack thereof.

[Grasswing]

Hello guys,

I am quite shocked to hear that and I want to share my opinion. Without palmtalk and personal messenger which is my most used part of palmtalk nowadays I would not be able to develop my friendship with people I met here. I know that the forum hosting costs as much as many benefits you have such as chat and PM service but I haven't become an IPS member to hear my favourite is going to get this possibility removed. If the problem is money, this is not going to save it.

Regards,

Andrew

[sur4z]

It would be a very good idea for the PalmTalk membership (IPS or not) to become more educated about the relationship between the IPS and PalmTalk. You will find a lot of information in the top forum, IPS - International Palm Society. Minutes from the board meeting will be posted there when they become available, and the financial statement for the IPS will be published in Palms at some future date.

We have a nice little palm playground here; while it is free for anyone to use, it is not FREE. The IPS will spend $11,200 on PalmTalk in 2014. This is partially offset by advertising revenue, so far from a single source, of $1,900. In 2012 advertising revenue was $4,000, but some have elected not to renew. You will recall the PalmTalk fundraiser in January 2013, which was very successful, raising about $1,900 in donations, plus additional funds from book sales, new memberships, and early renewals, bringing the total closer to $4,800.

As a Director on the Board, I take the position that PalmTalk is the best advertising for the IPS that money can buy. I also take the position that PalmTalk does an extraordinarily good job of fulfilling the Education role for the IPS Mission Statement. I also take the position that PalmTalk is the very best way to make the IPS truly international. I am only one voice on the Board, and while there are several others with similar opinions, we are in the minority, sad to say.

In the last election, even with a contested election for one Directorship, there were under 100 votes cast. If you want to be part of the solution, please, vote for the candidates who participate on PalmTalk. We have tremendous strength here, but it goes untapped. Your vote can really, truly make a difference.

It is not good enough to participate here and ignore the organization that supports PalmTalk. In the IPS forum, (top of main page) I described my work on the Board and asked for nomination from you, the PalmTalk membership. While several people thanked me for my service not a single person has offered to nominate me. Apathy will not help PalmTalk to survive. Please participate in the Board selection process, don't think someone else is going to do it for you. It is all in your hands.

I don't know if someone has done so before me, but I just nominated you. Thank you for being willing to serve.

[KennyRE317]

the biggest thing about PalmTalk is that it's promoting IPS to the younger crowd. If the IPS wants this group to succeed in the future they have to keep PT open or else they'll just keep seeing their membership numbers drop every year even factoring the initial loss of members from PT, it's just a way of life. I can guarantee you that the average age of IPS members that aren't on PT is much higher than the age of IPS members on PT. there's no other way for the IPS to continue in 10-15 years without this younger generation of members

[Tomw]

In my opinion making changes to PT that would adversely effect the effectiveness for education or study of palm, their propagation, culture, conservation, care and development would directly go against the IPS’s mission statement (from IPS web sight) which is:

Our mission statement

The International Palm Society, Inc. is operated solely and exclusively for scientific and/or educational purposes related to the study of palms, their propagation, culture, conservation, care, and development.

[_Keith]

It would be a very good idea for the PalmTalk membership (IPS or not) to become more educated about the relationship between the IPS and PalmTalk. You will find a lot of information in the top forum, IPS - International Palm Society. Minutes from the board meeting will be posted there when they become available, and the financial statement for the IPS will be published in Palms at some future date.

We have a nice little palm playground here; while it is free for anyone to use, it is not FREE. The IPS will spend $11,200 on PalmTalk in 2014. This is partially offset by advertising revenue, so far from a single source, of $1,900. In 2012 advertising revenue was $4,000, but some have elected not to renew. You will recall the PalmTalk fundraiser in January 2013, which was very successful, raising about $1,900 in donations, plus additional funds from book sales, new memberships, and early renewals, bringing the total closer to $4,800.

As a Director on the Board, I take the position that PalmTalk is the best advertising for the IPS that money can buy. I also take the position that PalmTalk does an extraordinarily good job of fulfilling the Education role for the IPS Mission Statement. I also take the position that PalmTalk is the very best way to make the IPS truly international. I am only one voice on the Board, and while there are several others with similar opinions, we are in the minority, sad to say.

In the last election, even with a contested election for one Directorship, there were under 100 votes cast. If you want to be part of the solution, please, vote for the candidates who participate on PalmTalk. We have tremendous strength here, but it goes untapped. Your vote can really, truly make a difference.

It is not good enough to participate here and ignore the organization that supports PalmTalk. In the IPS forum, (top of main page) I described my work on the Board and asked for nomination from you, the PalmTalk membership. While several people thanked me for my service not a single person has offered to nominate me. Apathy will not help PalmTalk to survive. Please participate in the Board selection process, don't think someone else is going to do it for you. It is all in your hands.

Kim, what is the annual cost to print "Palms."

[joe_OC]

It would be a very good idea for the PalmTalk membership (IPS or not) to become more educated about the relationship between the IPS and PalmTalk. You will find a lot of information in the top forum, IPS - International Palm Society. Minutes from the board meeting will be posted there when they become available, and the financial statement for the IPS will be published in Palms at some future date.

We have a nice little palm playground here; while it is free for anyone to use, it is not FREE. The IPS will spend $11,200 on PalmTalk in 2014. This is partially offset by advertising revenue, so far from a single source, of $1,900. In 2012 advertising revenue was $4,000, but some have elected not to renew. You will recall the PalmTalk fundraiser in January 2013, which was very successful, raising about $1,900 in donations, plus additional funds from book sales, new memberships, and early renewals, bringing the total closer to $4,800.

As a Director on the Board, I take the position that PalmTalk is the best advertising for the IPS that money can buy. I also take the position that PalmTalk does an extraordinarily good job of fulfilling the Education role for the IPS Mission Statement. I also take the position that PalmTalk is the very best way to make the IPS truly international. I am only one voice on the Board, and while there are several others with similar opinions, we are in the minority, sad to say.

In the last election, even with a contested election for one Directorship, there were under 100 votes cast. If you want to be part of the solution, please, vote for the candidates who participate on PalmTalk. We have tremendous strength here, but it goes untapped. Your vote can really, truly make a difference.

It is not good enough to participate here and ignore the organization that supports PalmTalk. In the IPS forum, (top of main page) I described my work on the Board and asked for nomination from you, the PalmTalk membership. While several people thanked me for my service not a single person has offered to nominate me. Apathy will not help PalmTalk to survive. Please participate in the Board selection process, don't think someone else is going to do it for you. It is all in your hands.

I had no idea the participation from the members were so low for BOD votes. Of course the old guard is going to vote...Makes me change my perspective...

[SanDimas]

Ive been on PalmTalk for a year and had no clue that IPS is a separate entity.

I thought they were one and the same?

It was PalmTalk and the great rapor and personalities on this site

that got my interest back into collecting

and growing palms again and not the IPS.

In fact Im not aware of the other sites that MattyB pointed out.

Ritchy

[redant]

Obviously I have been on this forum for along time and really should be an IPS member, although it just really comes about in my life to do so. In defense of this fact MANY IPS members have benefited from the ridiculous amount of palms I have bought over the years, all of which I would have never known about (the sales) without this forum. In the long run closing this forum will have a huge impact on the people who need it the most, the sellers.

I haven't had time to read the rest of this yet but will.

Edited October 18, 2013 by redant

[_Keith]

I proposed an "PT Only" IPS membership a few years ago. Makes total sense, and might add up to a bunch of new members. But they want the money to publish the vanity mag "Palms." In return for your IPS membership to enjoy PT, you are treated like the necessary red-headed stepchildren. Now I said it, add me besides Len to the "beating" list.

[joe_OC]

How many PT members are IPS members?

I was an IPS member before, but chose to not renew because I got more value from PT alone. I did contribute to PT, but it looks like I should have stayed with the IPS to have a voice. What's frustrating is how the IPS Officers / Executives / Directors are not very accessible. There is no transparency and very little communications with it's members. Why not use PT as the vehicle to do this? Meeting minutes, a running balance should all be made available.

As an IPS member, you vote for the Directors and Officers, but how much input do members have on policy? They really don't have to answer to the members, do they?

[LilikoiLee]

Does anyone have a copy of the IPS mission statement that they could share? I would like to know what is in it.

Mike and I were up very late last night reading all of the posts and also wanted to know what the IPS mission statement is so we looked on the IPS website. Here it is:

The International Palm Society, Inc. is operated solely and exclusively for scientific and/or educational purposes related to the study of palms, their propagation, culture, conservation, care, and development.

PT has been very educational for me. How about you?

I buy and read almost every palm book I hear about but I also learn a lot from this forum....and have a good time while I'm doing it. Also, sometimes the books contain information that is more technical than my current level of plam knowledge. PT makes topics more alive and interesting and inspires me to wade through those heavy tomes to learn more. Obviously the books are invaluable but I believe the number of people reading them is far smaller than the people participating on palm talk.

Also, I haven't heard many conversations between palm lovers that are at the same detail level as the books are. What I hear is a lot of passion and enthusiasm which leads to the purchase and growth of palms. Obviously science and research is very important to the preservation of the genus, but what good is the knowledge if people don't buy, grow and propagate them?

The people on PT are contributing something very important!!!! Let's not the board let them change it or take it away.

[dalmatiansoap]

Cmmon folks, UR the only ones that can change this.

As Kim mentioned, U all need to roll this up

http://www.palms.org/nominations.cfm

rules are simple although unreasonable complicated IMO.

Push this up, give me a reason to join IPS FREE PT section in days to come.

[redant]

If the IPS is to survive they need to understand marketing...which sadly they do not.

Some years ago I proposed developing the IPS as a brand...this was not understood, therefore not embraced.

I see a value to both gardens and resorts in IPS "certification" and feel it may be one of the better ways to introduce palms and educate the general public.

True when I go on other forums they are self sustaining entities with no memberships, I gather they attract enough traffic that the advertising sustains them. I really hadn't thought about how much it may cost to keep the board running, Kim's figures where useful to know, although seems high but what do I know about running a forum.

Edited October 18, 2013 by redant

[O'o Bar Master]

It would be a very good idea for the PalmTalk membership (IPS or not) to become more educated about the relationship between the IPS and PalmTalk. You will find a lot of information in the top forum, IPS - International Palm Society. Minutes from the board meeting will be posted there when they become available, and the financial statement for the IPS will be published in Palms at some future date.

We have a nice little palm playground here; while it is free for anyone to use, it is not FREE. The IPS will spend $11,200 on PalmTalk in 2014. This is partially offset by advertising revenue, so far from a single source, of $1,900. In 2012 advertising revenue was $4,000, but some have elected not to renew. You will recall the PalmTalk fundraiser in January 2013, which was very successful, raising about $1,900 in donations, plus additional funds from book sales, new memberships, and early renewals, bringing the total closer to $4,800.

As a Director on the Board, I take the position that PalmTalk is the best advertising for the IPS that money can buy. I also take the position that PalmTalk does an extraordinarily good job of fulfilling the Education role for the IPS Mission Statement. I also take the position that PalmTalk is the very best way to make the IPS truly international. I am only one voice on the Board, and while there are several others with similar opinions, we are in the minority, sad to say.

In the last election, even with a contested election for one Directorship, there were under 100 votes cast. If you want to be part of the solution, please, vote for the candidates who participate on PalmTalk. We have tremendous strength here, but it goes untapped. Your vote can really, truly make a difference.

It is not good enough to participate here and ignore the organization that supports PalmTalk. In the IPS forum, (top of main page) I described my work on the Board and asked for nomination from you, the PalmTalk membership. While several people thanked me for my service not a single person has offered to nominate me. Apathy will not help PalmTalk to survive. Please participate in the Board selection process, don't think someone else is going to do it for you. It is all in your hands.

Kim,

Your contributions are invaluable. We need you on the Board.

Mike

[_Keith]

So, you want to criticize, second guess, or become a board member. This is not about a reaction to PT or its existence. It is not about PM, or IM, or anything like that. It is about sustainability and evolution of an organization. Read, and not just the latest thread, or even two or three. Educate yourself. State your platform for the continuation of the organization, not just a part of it, for the whole of it. Quit reacting and get proactive. WHAT WILL YOU DO TO HELP? It is not all about Palmtalk?

I am going to post this in every related thread.

[PALM MOD]

There is a lot of misinformation, incomplete information, false assumptions, invalid conclusions, unfeasible solutions/suggestions, etc. in all the recent posts throughout the forum regarding this issue. There is no way I can respond and correct all of it. There is 8 years of history here, legal issues (that in an of themselves are IMO debatable between attorneys), and many factors that would take me hours over a beer to even begin to enlighten you all on.

But I will try to address any specific questions here in this thread, or correct any misinformation that is presented here, but I cannot do it everywhere - there is way too much, and I am bombarded at the moment. I feel like I am trying to control an explosion. So, don't base your reactions and opinions on what you may read elsewhere. If you want specific info from me, I will try my best to provide it here - nowhere else.

[LilikoiLee]

It is not good enough to participate here and ignore the organization that supports PalmTalk. In the IPS forum, (top of main page) I described my work on the Board and asked for nomination from you, the PalmTalk membership. While several people thanked me for my service not a single person has offered to nominate me. Apathy will not help PalmTalk to survive. Please participate in the Board selection process, don't think someone else is going to do it for you. It is all in your hands.

Kim,

I guess I didn't read your original post well enough and assumed that you had already been nominated. I am sure that everyone here is aware of your valuable contributions. I need to take care of our palms right now but I will submit a nomination for you this evening.

Lee

[PALM MOD]

Blockin PMs is a huge issue for me. That is how I communicate with everyone, and they with me. That is how people report things to me and how they contact me with the problems they are having. I already get 200+ emails everyday - I cannot run the additional numerous PMs I get through my email and keep track of everything with the ease and with the features I have as Admin with the PM system.

In other words, it is vital for me to do my job well.

[PALM MOD]

If the IPS is to survive they need to understand marketing...which sadly they do not.

Some years ago I proposed developing the IPS as a brand...this was not understood, therefore not embraced.

I see a value to both gardens and resorts in IPS "certification" and feel it may be one of the better ways to introduce palms and educate the general public.

True when I go on other forums they are self sustaining entities with no memberships, I gather they attract enough traffic that the advertising sustains them. I really hadn't thought about how much it may cost to keep the board running, Kim's figures where useful to know, although seems high but what do I know about running a forum.

The main differences between PT and other forums are as follows.

1) The demands to keep all infringements such as porn, pharmaceuticals, and even cuss words off the forum at all times, with never the embarrassment of lewd photos popping up here and there is onerous, and consumes procedures and time that contribute greatly to cost. It is not uncommon to come across such things on other forums. The IPS wants this board squeaky clean - even to the extent of not allowing ads that are not palm or garden related - thus limiting 95%+ of the ad revenue possibilities. There are hundreds of attempted spam registrations everyday. And a lot of the automated screening systems are constantly being broken and constantly need to be tweaked. And the few hundred that slip through every week as legit or manually registered by spammers have to be manually screened before admitting. This is a process I go through the first half hour of my day - every day.

2) Our lifeblood is photos. And I have chosen to allow higher quality photos than most sites allow for two reasons. One is that I think detail and good photography enhances our site and is important for our appreciation of the subject matter. And two - many people have an impossible time resizing and posting photos if I place a limit to their size. So, after 8 years of this - and with retaining the ability to serve up these quality photos to multiple users at a tolerable speed, we need a substantial server. And don't forget the logistics of regularly backing up huge amounts of data.

3) And I don't work for free. I earn about $10-$12/hour for the 60 (and growing) hours a month I put into this gig - checking in everyday for the last 8 years, three times or more a day, to assure hackers are at bay, you all are behaving, and the site is functioning.

But if anyone wants my job, let me know. I may step down, or I could be let go. In either case, I assume I would be the person interviewing and training someone new. If you are interested - you need a knowledge of dedicated Linus server management including ssh and ftp protocols, some MySQL, php and html, ability to set up and manage server and database backup, and some familiarity with managing, upgrading, patching, etc. some type of forum software. This is not a "managed" platform - although this new server is much more forgiving than the previous one. If interested, PM your name and ability and I will keep you name just in case.

[PALM MOD]

I proposed an "PT Only" IPS membership a few years ago. Makes total sense, and might add up to a bunch of new members. But they want the money to publish the vanity mag "Palms." In return for your IPS membership to enjoy PT, you are treated like the necessary red-headed stepchildren. Now I said it, add me besides Len to the "beating" list.

If you remember Keith, the logistics, software, bookkeeping, etc to do an online membership isn't practical. How many forums do you know that do it? There are reasons why. The main one being that just the task of keeping it secure, so that non-members couldn't get around it, would be substantial. Why charge $20/yr. for a membership and limit participation if the hassle to manage it amounts to $20/yr?

[PALM MOD]

And for my last post for a bit - easily 15 hours at this over the last 48 hours.

Regarding the cost issue --- we pulled in, with ad revenue and the fund raiser, possibly as much as $7000 so far this year. That is a big chunk of the $11-12,000 it costs to provide. And this does not account for any memberships generated here, or donations that may have been made outside of the Donate Button.

It should be noted that when the IPS gives away grant money - what is it getting in return? So why if it gives money to PT, why does it suddenly expect a return? I would hate to have witnessed the state of the IPS today if PT had not been in existence the last 8 years. IMO - the money could not have been better spent.

But the big problem is that there is no method in place to credit PT with any of this generated revenue. I know, that's ridiculous - but don't get me started. Get ready to announce your candidacy when the new IPS Election Forum opens.

And - has anyone nominated Kim yet? We also need a second.

[_Keith]

Dean, with modern tec

I proposed an "PT Only" IPS membership a few years ago. Makes total sense, and might add up to a bunch of new members. But they want the money to publish the vanity mag "Palms." In return for your IPS membership to enjoy PT, you are treated like the necessary red-headed stepchildren. Now I said it, add me besides Len to the "beating" list.

If you remember Keith, the logistics, software, bookkeeping, etc to do an online membership isn't practical. How many forums do you know that do it? There are reasons why. The main one being that just the task of keeping it secure, so that non-members couldn't get around it, would be substantial. Why charge $20/yr. for a membership and limit participation if the hassle to manage it amounts to $20/yr?

Dean, this is only because the IPS is technology deficient, if that. This is simply not an issue in a modern world. Having worked in large modern organizations, some with very specific grant funding, this is very simple. The main issue, imho, is that IPS is run in an archaic tradition at best, and doesn't really want to know at the worst.. I mean really, they apparently already track PT expenditures (the hard part) by their very own numbers of saying what it cost in Kim's recent post. How hard would it be to track PT specific memberships. This should be elementary from an membership point. I am not buying into this one at all.