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Ken Johnson

PalmTalk Forum is at Risk of Closing! Help!

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KennyRE317

i'm not a member of the IPS yet but had intentions of joining, I will join to help vote if there are members on here that will run

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Dr. George

Couple of observations:

1. You don't need 39 directors (more than a 1/3 the size of the US Senate) to run the IPS.

2. Am sure the Directors select the locations of their meetings - on the non-biennial years, don't pick a location you can't afford to attend.

3. Yes, its nice to visit interesting and beautiful locations in conjunction with a Board meeting, but the Board meeting is about running the business of the organization, not about having an excuse for group travel excursions. With today's technology, videoconferencing would be more cost efficient and more inclusive (and with a by-laws change, more frequent), even if Directors gathered together in their individual districts and group videoconferenced between the district sites.

4. If the whole Board meeting isn't going to be videoconferenced, at least allow the Directors who can't attend in person to videoconference into the on-site board meeting.

gmp

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Zeeth

Couple of observations:

1. You don't need 39 directors (more than a 1/3 the size of the US Senate) to run the IPS.

2. Am sure the Directors select the locations of their meetings - on the non-biennial years, don't pick a location you can't afford to attend.

3. Yes, its nice to visit interesting and beautiful locations in conjunction with a Board meeting, but the Board meeting is about running the business of the organization, not about having an excuse for group travel excursions. With today's technology, videoconferencing would be more cost efficient and more inclusive (and with a by-laws change, more frequent), even if Directors gathered together in their individual districts and group videoconferenced between the district sites.

4. If the whole Board meeting isn't going to be videoconferenced, at least allow the Directors who can't attend in person to videoconference into the on-site board meeting.

gmp

3 and 4 are excellent points

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BS Man about Palms

While I have not had the chance yet to read this entire thread, I would offer something on my behalf that has happened. I joined the IPS BEFORE I knew there was a PalmTalk. Yet, it has been PalmTalk that has kept me as an IPS Member as the magazine alone would most likely NOT have the ability to do.

But, just as shocking is that at least 5 or more directors have asked me to be a director, and with PalmTalk in play and the friendships it has created, I have given it consideration of more than several minutes and may likely run or apply in the future. If PalmTalk were to disappear in the future, the likelihood of me following thru on that will approach nil.

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Brahea Axel

Couple of observations:

1. You don't need 39 directors (more than a 1/3 the size of the US Senate) to run the IPS.

2. Am sure the Directors select the locations of their meetings - on the non-biennial years, don't pick a location you can't afford to attend.

3. Yes, its nice to visit interesting and beautiful locations in conjunction with a Board meeting, but the Board meeting is about running the business of the organization, not about having an excuse for group travel excursions. With today's technology, videoconferencing would be more cost efficient and more inclusive (and with a by-laws change, more frequent), even if Directors gathered together in their individual districts and group videoconferenced between the district sites.

4. If the whole Board meeting isn't going to be videoconferenced, at least allow the Directors who can't attend in person to videoconference into the on-site board meeting.

gmp

Don't you just love politics? Imagine a 39 member board. And it they're not going to embrace the internet, they're even less likely to embrace video conferencing.

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Brahea Axel

While I have not had the chance yet to read this entire thread, I would offer something on my behalf that has happened. I joined the IPS BEFORE I knew there was a PalmTalk. Yet, it has been PalmTalk that has kept me as an IPS Member as the magazine alone would most likely NOT have the ability to do.

But, just as shocking is that at least 5 or more directors have asked me to be a director, and with PalmTalk in play and the friendships it has created, I have given it consideration of more than several minutes and may likely run or apply in the future. If PalmTalk were to disappear in the future, the likelihood of me following thru on that will approach nil.

You have my vote if you run. Len also has my vote.

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BigFrond

BOD to the Palmtalk minions.... "Let them eat cake!"

Edited by BigFrond
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joe_OC

Couple of observations:

1. You don't need 39 directors (more than a 1/3 the size of the US Senate) to run the IPS.

2. Am sure the Directors select the locations of their meetings - on the non-biennial years, don't pick a location you can't afford to attend.

3. Yes, its nice to visit interesting and beautiful locations in conjunction with a Board meeting, but the Board meeting is about running the business of the organization, not about having an excuse for group travel excursions. With today's technology, videoconferencing would be more cost efficient and more inclusive (and with a by-laws change, more frequent), even if Directors gathered together in their individual districts and group videoconferenced between the district sites.

4. If the whole Board meeting isn't going to be videoconferenced, at least allow the Directors who can't attend in person to videoconference into the on-site board meeting.

gmp

Point 1 - How does this breakdown with regards to representing the IPS members?

Point 2 - Most members on the board CAN afford it. This is how they limit people from being on the BOD

Point 3 - Same as point 2

Point 4 - Same as point 2

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BS Man about Palms

One other observation I thought of that I wish I could include to the BOD who are against PalmTalk as such is a single question.....

"Is the Appeal of the IPS to you its exclusivity or its inclusiveness ?"

Sadly, I suspect I can guess the answers given by how they vote.

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sonoranfans

Couple of observations:

1. You don't need 39 directors (more than a 1/3 the size of the US Senate) to run the IPS.

2. Am sure the Directors select the locations of their meetings - on the non-biennial years, don't pick a location you can't afford to attend.

3. Yes, its nice to visit interesting and beautiful locations in conjunction with a Board meeting, but the Board meeting is about running the business of the organization, not about having an excuse for group travel excursions. With today's technology, videoconferencing would be more cost efficient and more inclusive (and with a by-laws change, more frequent), even if Directors gathered together in their individual districts and group videoconferenced between the district sites.

4. If the whole Board meeting isn't going to be videoconferenced, at least allow the Directors who can't attend in person to videoconference into the on-site board meeting.

gmp

When IPS dues goes to fund palm talk, or "palm talk" reforms as a separate entity, let me know. I do not support these other activities and hired NY lawyers who are basically looking to run up billable hours.

tblank_75@yahoo.com

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sur4z

I am looking forward to voting for Len, BGL, Kim, Toby, Jack/el Hoagie and Tim/realarch next election. Any one running that post on Palm talk regularly will get my vote as well!

The other existing BOD's will see my boot...

If we fail to save Palm Talk I am out!

Randy

DITTO!!!!

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LJG

I think we don't want to go too far off the cliff with this and conspiracies. The board chooses places well in advance and for the reason to view palms in amazing places. Being able to go from Cloud Forest to Jungles was the reason for this location. Not to mess with PT. Bo can correct me, but it seems like every year lately PT is a big discussion at these meetings.

As far as the 5 votes for palmtalk, I am sure only 10-15 other went against as there is no way more make these trip to give full vote. Either way, we will know when we get the vote data.

I have stated in a round about way here and in other threads before. The IPS seems to be fractionated into hobbyist and PTers in majority with another group being scientist and those that use it for serious related work. (I wonder how many of these scientist have gardens with palms?). Every scientist needs a place to publish. Palms is it for a palm botanist. As long as that journal runs and they have endowment money they have ZERO need to mingle with the masses. I want this to change. From an outsider looking in I see no value to its members having these guys give nothing back even though membership dues and endowments cover a lot their cost. I believe we need to push the IPS forward into the digital age. Instead of a $6000 grant to send a botanist to some jungle maybe a small grant goes to getting a new IPS Web 3.0 webiste and build its social media platform. Have these scientist blog their trips that members have access to. Why isn't the IPS partnered with the San Diego zoo (just an example of hundreds we could use) and members given discounts to enter? If we are about conservation, why are seeds not taken from these palm trips and put into a seed bank or given to IPS member nurseries to sell and pass around? Does anyone really think we would have gotten any Tahina seeds had Metz not found the tree first and it making news here on PT? It would have been like hundreds of other palms visited in the wild - many near extinction - that no one knows about because the people visiting don't collect seed even though it might be present in mass. This happens often.

One last thing in another long winded post, I think the IPS needs to improve holding BODs accountable. They are given certain responsibilities. If they or deadlines are not meet, you are removed. Simple s that. Too many empty seat BODs in my opinion. I know they don't get paid, but don't volunteer unless you plan on doing something. Can't afford to make some annual trips, then make sure from home you are able manage the task of getting partnerships for example. I think getting stuff done is of more value anyway. I would maher few BODs put in as much time as lets say Kim.

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_Keith

I think we don't want to go too far off the cliff with this and conspiracies. The board chooses places well in advance and for the reason to view palms in amazing places. Being able to go from Cloud Forest to Jungles was the reason for this location. Not to mess with PT. Bo can correct me, but it seems like every year lately PT is a big discussion at these meetings.

As far as the 5 votes for palmtalk, I am sure only 10-15 other went against as there is no way more make these trip to give full vote. Either way, we will know when we get the vote data.

I have stated in a round about way here and in other threads before. The IPS seems to be fractionated into hobbyist and PTers in majority with another group being scientist and those that use it for serious related work. (I wonder how many of these scientist have gardens with palms?). Every scientist needs a place to publish. Palms is it for a palm botanist. As long as that journal runs and they have endowment money they have ZERO need to mingle with the masses. I want this to change. From an outsider looking in I see no value to its members having these guys give nothing back even though membership dues and endowments cover a lot their cost. I believe we need to push the IPS forward into the digital age. Instead of a $6000 grant to send a botanist to some jungle maybe a small grant goes to getting a new IPS Web 3.0 webiste and build its social media platform. Have these scientist blog their trips that members have access to. Why isn't the IPS partnered with the San Diego zoo (just an example of hundreds we could use) and members given discounts to enter? If we are about conservation, why are seeds not taken from these palm trips and put into a seed bank or given to IPS member nurseries to sell and pass around? Does anyone really think we would have gotten any Tahina seeds had Metz not found the tree first and it making news here on PT? It would have been like hundreds of other palms visited in the wild - many near extinction - that no one knows about because the people visiting don't collect seed even though it might be present in mass. This happens often.

One last thing in another long winded post, I think the IPS needs to improve holding BODs accountable. They are given certain responsibilities. If they or deadlines are not meet, you are removed. Simple s that. Too many empty seat BODs in my opinion. I know they don't get paid, but don't volunteer unless you plan on doing something.

There is generally no lack of places to publish, but there is a finite number of places from which to get funding. Dissemination of info and other items to PT is simply because there is no incentivation for that. I have heard that conflicts of interest on the BOD may actually deincentivize this. I am not certain of this, but I have heard it from multiple sources.

And you are absolutely right on the BOD. I have been on several BODs and the more members, the less accountability and the more tendency for a small group of them to dominate, or in many cases for the bureaucrats to dominate.

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joe_OC

I don't think there is any conspiracy going on here. I think it's just a mindset.

I love golf, so I will use a golf analogy...

IPS is to Augusta National Golf Club as Palmtalk is to Happy Gilmore. ;)

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yachtingone

I am looking forward to voting for Len, BGL, Kim, Toby, Jack/el Hoagie and Tim/realarch next election. Any one running that post on Palm talk regularly will get my vote as well!

The other existing BOD's will see my boot...

If we fail to save Palm Talk I am out!

Randy

DITTO!!!!

Add Bill(BS Man about Palms) gets my vote too! Who else is thinking about running? I have been approached about running but haven't considered it until now. Jeff Searle will get my vote as well.

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_Keith

Guys, there will be a very limited number of seats available. It will not be a free for all.

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DoomsDave

i'm not a member of the IPS yet but had intentions of joining, I will join to help vote if there are members on here that will run

I'm a director and the biggest PT junkie of all . . .

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_Keith

i'm not a member of the IPS yet but had intentions of joining, I will join to help vote if there are members on here that will run

I'm a director and the biggest PT junkie of all . . .

Mr Director, exactly how many seats will be up to be filled in the next election cycle, and exactly when will that be?

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Rafael

Since 2009 i have been involved here, learning and socializing and it this has really modified my life.

So much that i ended up in a unforgetable biennial in Thailand, where i met. so many friends i admired from palmtalk.

Sincerely, from what i have been observing, i think palmtalk is the most usefull dimension of the IPS. And it has done more than anything else for publicizing and sharing so much knowledge about palms.

So, i find ridiculous that some people, maybe jealous and unable to participate, think about ending with palmtalk.

As an IPS member Bill, Len, Paul Denton, Jeff Searle or Axel (hi Axel...) can count with my vote.

If we loose palmtalk, IPS will loose my membership.

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LJG

I think we don't want to go too far off the cliff with this and conspiracies. The board chooses places well in advance and for the reason to view palms in amazing places. Being able to go from Cloud Forest to Jungles was the reason for this location. Not to mess with PT. Bo can correct me, but it seems like every year lately PT is a big discussion at these meetings.

As far as the 5 votes for palmtalk, I am sure only 10-15 other went against as there is no way more make these trip to give full vote. Either way, we will know when we get the vote data.

I have stated in a round about way here and in other threads before. The IPS seems to be fractionated into hobbyist and PTers in majority with another group being scientist and those that use it for serious related work. (I wonder how many of these scientist have gardens with palms?). Every scientist needs a place to publish. Palms is it for a palm botanist. As long as that journal runs and they have endowment money they have ZERO need to mingle with the masses. I want this to change. From an outsider looking in I see no value to its members having these guys give nothing back even though membership dues and endowments cover a lot their cost. I believe we need to push the IPS forward into the digital age. Instead of a $6000 grant to send a botanist to some jungle maybe a small grant goes to getting a new IPS Web 3.0 webiste and build its social media platform. Have these scientist blog their trips that members have access to. Why isn't the IPS partnered with the San Diego zoo (just an example of hundreds we could use) and members given discounts to enter? If we are about conservation, why are seeds not taken from these palm trips and put into a seed bank or given to IPS member nurseries to sell and pass around? Does anyone really think we would have gotten any Tahina seeds had Metz not found the tree first and it making news here on PT? It would have been like hundreds of other palms visited in the wild - many near extinction - that no one knows about because the people visiting don't collect seed even though it might be present in mass. This happens often.

One last thing in another long winded post, I think the IPS needs to improve holding BODs accountable. They are given certain responsibilities. If they or deadlines are not meet, you are removed. Simple s that. Too many empty seat BODs in my opinion. I know they don't get paid, but don't volunteer unless you plan on doing something.

There is generally no lack of places to publish, but there is a finite number of places from which to get funding. Dissemination of info and other items to PT is simply because there is no incentivation for that. I have heard that conflicts of interest on the BOD may actually deincentivize this. I am not certain of this, but I have heard it from multiple sources.

And you are absolutely right on the BOD. I have been on several BODs and the more members, the less accountability and the more tendency for a small group of them to dominate, or in many cases for the bureaucrats to dominate.

Where else is a palm botanist going to publish? Sure they could do so in general or broad publications, but only one exist for palm related only.

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Dr. George

i'm not a member of the IPS yet but had intentions of joining, I will join to help vote if there are members on here that will run

I'm a director and the biggest PT junkie of all . . .

Mr Director, exactly how many seats will be up to be filled in the next election cycle, and exactly when will that be?

From the IPS website - the following directors have terms that expire in 2014.

Directors 2010-2014

Elena Beare - Uruguay

Norm Bezona - Hawaii, USA

Faith Bishock - Florida, USA

Kimberly Cyre - California, USA

Ray Hernandez - Florida, USA

Bo-Goran Lundkvist - Hawaii USA

Francisco (Paco) Marti Navarro - Spain

Don Martin - California, USA

Fernando Roca - Peru

Tobias Spanner - Germany

David Tanswell - Brisbane, Australia

Nominations information on IPS website: https://www.palms.org/nominations.cfm

Nomination deadline Nov 20th for 2014-2018 terms.

Also - The website has a menu across the top - select "The Society" and you will get a scroll down menu that includes a link titled "Directors" - that will bring up a webpage listing all the IPS officers and directors by term. Click on each director's name and it will bring up their e-mail address.

gmp

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joe_OC

My math tells me that's nine (9), keeping Kim and Bo, potential seats for a "Pro-Palmtalk" Directors...

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LJG

My math tells me that's nine (9), keeping Kim and Bo, potential seats for a "Pro-Palmtalk" Directors...

Remember too with a few more Internet savvy directors, other minds can change. So those that vote one way now could be persuaded to vote another with more accurate information.

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_Keith

My math tells me that's nine (9), keeping Kim and Bo, potential seats for a "Pro-Palmtalk" Directors...

Your math may be better than my memory, but it seems in the last election there were not nearly that many seats at play.

Mr Directors Ken & Dave, you ran and were elected last cycle. Can you elaborate on this?,

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joe_OC

So how many palmtalk people are willing to be on the BOD?

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_Keith

So how many palmtalk people are willing to be on the BOD?

To be more specific, how many IPS members who are active on PT are willing to be on the BOD?

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MASOALA JASON

IPS OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS

Click the person's name to send an email. Double click on "info" to view biographical information and a photo (if available).

Officers of the IPS
IPS Officers are elected for two-year terms, serving from one Biennial to the next.

Leland Lai California USA -- President Jeff Brusseau California USA -- Vice President Ray Hernandez Florida USA -- Vice President Tom Jackson California USA -- Treasurer Susan Hubbell Puerto Rico USA -- Correspondence Secretary Larry Noblick Florida USA -- Administrative Secretary Scott Zona, Ph.D. Florida USA -- Editor

Executive Committee
The IPS Executive Committee is appointed by the President from the Officers and Board of Directors at large. The current Executive Committee includes:

Biography Leland Lai California USA Biography Jeff Brusseau California USA Biography Ray Hernandez Florida USA Biography Susan Hubbell Puerto Rico USA Biography Larry Noblick Florida USA Biography Michael Merritt Hawaii USA Biography John Dransfield, Ph.D. - Editor United Kingdom Biography Scott Zona, Ph.D. Florida USA Biography Jim Cain Texas USA

Directors
The Board of Directors is divided into groups elected for four-year terms. The groups are elected at alternating biennials to ensure continuity within the IPS Board

Directors 2010-2014

Biography Elena Beare Uruguay Biography Norman Bezona Hawaii USA Biography Faith Bishock Florida USA Biography Kimberley Cyr California USA Biography Ray Hernandez Florida USA Biography Bo-Göran Lundkvist Hawaii USA Biography Francisco (Paco) Marti Navarro Spain Don Martin California USA Biography Fernando Roca Peru Biography Tobias Spanner Germany David Tanswell Brisbane Australia

Directors: 2012-2016

Biography David Bleistein California USA Biography Tim Brian Hawaii USA Biography Jeff Brusseau California USA Biography Jim Cain Texas USA Biography Paul Craft Florida USA Biography John DeMott Florida USA Biography R. Haresh India Biography Susan Hubbell Puerto Rico USA Biography Tom Jackson California USA Biography Ken Johnson Florida USA Biography Leland Lai California USA Biography Michael Merritt Hawaii USA Biography Kathryn Morgan Louisiana USA Biography Carlo Morici Spain Biography Larry Noblick Florida USA Biography Jack Sayers California USA Biography Grant Stephenson Texas USA Biography Scott Zona, Ph.D. Florida USA

Directors: 2014-2018

Biography Horace O. Hobbs. Jr., Texas USA

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MASOALA JASON

I agree with others who have stated that we need to let directors know in numbers how their decision will affect the future of the IPS and how they need to embrace Palmtalk as a tool to grow the IPS. At the same time, I think it is always better to state your difference of opinion in a professional manner and one that does not represent Palmtalk in a poor manner. Lets use our vote like others have said also to change the power structure on the BOD. The current directors who voted against crucial aspects of Palmtalk need to know votes will be taken away if they do not repeal their vote.

Mod Edit: Jason, thanks for your effort. I changed the format to a downloadable .pdf in order to limit the possibility of generating spam for the Directors.

Director Emails.pdf

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_Keith

So, please correct me if I am wrong, on the Executive Committee, which is where the real power always exist in this kind of structure, only one of the 12 folks is only marginally active on PT?

And of all 40 Directors, only 3 are regularly active and another 4 are only partially active on PT.

I would think that says it all.

And we have to seem to have one already elected to the 2014 BOD. Probably a permanent position based on donations, if I had to guess. Not complaining, on non-profs, like it of not, being able to bring money to the table is always a consideration on board seats.

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_Keith

So, please correct me if I am wrong, on the Executive Committee, which is where the real power always exist in this kind of structure, only one of the 12 folks is only marginally active on PT?

And of all 40 Directors, only 3 are regularly active and another 4 are only partially active on PT.

I would think that says it all.

And we have to seem to have one already elected to the 2014 BOD. Probably a permanent position based on donations, if I had to guess. Not complaining, on non-profs, like it of not, being able to bring money to the table is always a consideration on board seats.

And I might also note, and feel free to shoot me now, that some of these folks were much more active on PT prior to getting BOD seats.

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Phoenikakias

Although I promised not post ever in this forum, since apparently my participation is not wished by the majority of BOD, I allow me a single exception. I am very curious to read here an authentic argumentation (not a reproduction by a dissident) supporting their controversial attitude to PT.

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Walt

i'm not a member of the IPS yet but had intentions of joining, I will join to help vote if there are members on here that will run

I'm a director and the biggest PT junkie of all . . .

Yes, I remember you were one of the first PT (if it was called that at the time) to respond to my first post. That was probably 12-14 years ago. I can't recall now.

I stumbled upon the IPS PT website searching for palm information after I took an interest in expanding and building my palm garden. I obtained a lot of good information here, so I thought it would behoove me to join the IPS, so I joined.

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MattyB

Awesome post Jason.

Shouldn't we figure out what they are changing first? Are they charging for palmtalk or charging for PM's, or trial period for either, or are they just doing away with the PM system?????. Have we figured out what the changes are going to be?

If we all just shoot out an email saying, "we need palmtalk please don't shut it down" and they were never considering to shut it down then they will think we're all stupid.

Maybe someone who knows what the proposed changes are exactly, should draft a sample letter, that we here on palmtalk can copy, edit to make our own, and send it along, so all of these letters sound educated on the issue.

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_Keith

Awesome post Jason.

Shouldn't we figure out what they are changing first? Are they charging for palmtalk or charging for PM's, or trial period for either, or are they just doing away with the PM system?????. Have we figured out what the changes are going to be?

If we all just shoot out an email saying, "we need palmtalk please don't shut it down" and they were never considering to shut it down then they will think we're all stupid.

Maybe someone who knows what the proposed changes are exactly, should draft a sample letter, that we here on palmtalk can copy, edit to make our own, and send it along, so all of these letters sound educated on the issue.

Matt, perhaps your question is the issue. They are changing something, but where is the communication to the effected individuals?

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akamu

The IPS was started to study, find ,and save rare and endangered species . What better way of trading these species to every part of the globe than PT and starting them in like environements. Iam just saying what is there real reason. I wouldn't know how others in my community are doing with certain species. unless I had away to reach these people and trade plants and knowledge. PT IS MUCH MORE USEFUL TO US THAN SOME MAGAZINE ABOUT 5 PLANTS AT TIME. NO PT NO IPS :rant:

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palmmermaid

With today's technology, a face-to-face board meeting isn't even necessary. I work for a Forbes 100 company - as a remote employee. We conduct business meetings all over the US and the world using technology. With a computer, the internet, and a phone/data line, it is easy to conduct meetings. With the ability to share screens, documents, Skype, and other software - much of it free! - these costly trips to board meetings is just another way to have the IPS be an elitist group.

And 34 board members! How many other members are there? That sounds like a huge number of board members for a small organization. My company doesn't have that many! Talk about top heavy and controlling - the IPS BOD is a poster child!

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_Keith

With today's technology, a face-to-face board meeting isn't even necessary. I work for a Forbes 100 company - as a remote employee. We conduct business meetings all over the US and the world using technology. With a computer, the internet, and a phone/data line, it is easy to conduct meetings. With the ability to share screens, documents, Skype, and other software - much of it free! - these costly trips to board meetings is just another way to have the IPS be an elitist group.

And 34 board members! How many other members are there? That sounds like a huge number of board members for a small organization. My company doesn't have that many! Talk about top heavy and controlling - the IPS BOD is a poster child!

Amen sista, and you can even allow unlimited viewers while recording the whole danged thing to be viewed by members at any time. My company does the same.

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akamu

:greenthumb: GREAT OBSERVATION PALMMERMAID TIME TO WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER

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ErikSJI

I have been seeing biennial photos of the recent trip being posted on facebook yet none being shared here on PT as of yet. Interesting.

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LilikoiLee

Couple of observations:

1. You don't need 39 directors (more than a 1/3 the size of the US Senate) to run the IPS.

2. Am sure the Directors select the locations of their meetings - on the non-biennial years, don't pick a location you can't afford to attend.

3. Yes, its nice to visit interesting and beautiful locations in conjunction with a Board meeting, but the Board meeting is about running the business of the organization, not about having an excuse for group travel excursions. With today's technology, videoconferencing would be more cost efficient and more inclusive (and with a by-laws change, more frequent), even if Directors gathered together in their individual districts and group videoconferenced between the district sites.

4. If the whole Board meeting isn't going to be videoconferenced, at least allow the Directors who can't attend in person to videoconference into the on-site board meeting.

gmp

And we all know how things go in DC. Lee

Great ideas Dr. George.

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