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PalmTalk Forum is at Risk of Closing! Help!


Ken Johnson

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Attention all members. Stay tuned to this topic if you want to keep PalmTalk up and running. We will need a lot of support. The Board of Directors has voted to make some changes that will lead to the demise of PalmTalk. They will need to be reminded of how important this site is and why it is good for the IPS in general to have it.

As new information about this issue is posted here please comment so you can let the Directors know how you feel.

The first (in) action the Board took was to stop private messaging because they felt we were letting to many people trade plants improperly so we had to shut it down to reduce liability. That also makes it so the site can't be moderated...sounds like a big problem to me. No moderator no PalmTalk..

Please post your thoughts here so we can get a groundswell of support for PalmTalk.

PS Please also read the Mods message here... http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/39089-major-changes-for-palmtalk-please-read-and-heed/

He reminds us to be civil...Thanks Dean!

  • Upvote 1

I DIG PALMS

Call me anytime to chat about transplanting palms.

305-345-8918

https://www.facebook...KenJohnsonPalms

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PalmTalk is the IPS, like it or not.

  • Upvote 1

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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The main reason I joined the IPS was Palm Talk.

Just guessing but I'd say 50% or more of new members come directly from palmtalk.

Jeff

  • Upvote 3

Modesto, CA USDA 9b

July/August average 95f/63f

Dec/Jan average 55f/39f

Average lowest winter temp 27f

Record low temp 18f

Record high temp 113f

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Cha-ching. Mo money.

My thoughts exactly. But,,,,it is really a loss leader for IPS.

  • Upvote 1

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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OK, i'm confused. How is palmtalk accepting liability when people use private messaging to trade plants?

Losing Palmtalk would would be a huge blow to IPS and our community.

  • Upvote 1

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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So trading plants is illegal? Is giving them away illegal? I'd hate to see palmtalk go away, it is the #1 resource for palm growers worldwide. Nothing beats talking with other growers when it comes to learning about palms, and no travel is necessary to have that discussion. The information content already in the thread archives far exceeds the knowledge that is available to the masses by ANY other source. But if the IPS thinks it is better off without palmtalk, I suppose they are free to disassemble it. :bummed:

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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i echo the sentiments above: the MAIN reason i joined the IPS was to support palmtalk. this website has introduced me to palm people & places all over the world i never would have known without it. please DO NOT let this window to the world of palms disappear!

  • Upvote 1

the "prince of snarkness."

 

still "warning-free."

 

san diego,california,left coast.

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This is ridiculus. There are modern ways to address this:

When signing up for PalmTalk, there needs to be a liability disclaimer in the terms and conditions that includes one about not following USDA rules when trading plants. Maybe it's time to for the IPS to hire internet savy lawyers that understand the precedents and can write the proper liability waiver when signing up. I work for Mozilla, we deal with liability all the time.

"By illegally trading any species of plants on palmTalk, you are violating the terms and conditions of PalmTalk... bla bla bla"

The hosting cost of running a service like PalmTalk should not exceed $1K a year. If the IPS actually invested some money into some online marketing, membership could climb and the revenues would go up for the IPS. The board is in need of some changes IMHO. For one, there need to be regional forums, that would also help the IPS membership to climb.

Before you shut it down, let me know, I'll be glad to take over hosting it and put out a nice beefy liability waiver in the terms and conditions at signup.

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Not a good move IPS. I am a board member of my local PS and a huge supporter of palmtalk.

  • Upvote 1

Glenn

Modesto, California

 

Sunset Zone 14   USDA 9b

 

Low Temp. 19F/-7C 12-20-1990         

 

High Temp. 111F/43C 07-23-2006

 

Annual Average Precipitation 13.12 inches/yr.

 

             

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If we lose Palm Talk, the IPS loses me.

  • Upvote 3

The weight of lies will bring you down / And follow you to every town / Cause nothin happens here

That doesn't happen there / So when you run make sure you run / To something and not away from

Cause lies don't need an aero plane / To chase you anywhere

--Avett Bros

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I echo both considerations. By realizing the difference between various climates one can understand deeper the climate in his own place.

So trading plants is illegal? Is giving them away illegal? I'd hate to see palmtalk go away, it is the #1 resource for palm growers worldwide. Nothing beats talking with other growers when it comes to learning about palms, and no travel is necessary to have that discussion. The information content already in the thread archives far exceeds the knowledge that is available to the masses by ANY other source. But if the IPS thinks it is better off without palmtalk, I suppose they are free to disassemble it. :bummed:

i echo the sentiments above: the MAIN reason i joined the IPS was to support palmtalk. this website has introduced me to palm people & places all over the world i never would have known without it. please DO NOT let this window to the world of palms disappear!

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The main reason I joined the IPS was Palm Talk.

Just guessing but I'd say 50% or more of new members come directly from palmtalk.

Jeff

i echo the sentiments above: the MAIN reason i joined the IPS was to support palmtalk. this website has introduced me to palm people & places all over the world i never would have known without it. please DO NOT let this window to the world of palms disappear!

I too only joined the IPS due to myself being active on Palmtalk and I thought if the IPS support Palmtalk then I should support the IPS. If Palmtalk is no longer around I doubt I will renew my IPS membership?

I also thought that loss leaders were a strategic marketing tool and pay per view would no doubt exclude a decent percentage of pt users, this surely diminishes interest in palms and hinders the sharing of knowledge and advancement of palm promotion??

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With only 2 min to respond I can tell you that if palm talk went away, so would my yearly IPS renewal. I don't care to get a paper in the mail every few months talking about directors. That's what the IPS gives me. I would rather put my yearly money into Palmtalk because it gives me a daily feeding of all the knowledge I can handle, plus the friendships are invaluable, especially since 99% of them are from other places.

Really bad move for the IPS, Palmtalk is the glue that holds the palm community together and is a need for our younger generation of palm people.

  • Upvote 5

Grateful to have what I have, Les amis de mes amis sont mes amis!

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I said something similar before the last IPS Board of Directors election. Ask your directors how they feel and what they voted. Although they may be nice people, people I like, personally I think at least half of them should go. They are out of touch.

Palm Talk should stay and board members who vote against it should go.

Can the minutes of the Board meeting be posted so we can see what was discussed?

So many species,

so little time.

Coconut Creek, Florida

Zone 10b (Zone 11 except for once evey 10 or 20 years)

Last Freeze: 2011,50 Miles North of Fairchilds

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It's time to secede from the union. Let PalmTalk become a stand alone non-profit public resource and disconnect it from the IPS. I'll donate hosting space to run our own instance of ip.board.

Then maybe we can merge PalmPedia and palmTalk into a great online internet resource on palms, and the old IPS can continue doing their stuff on paper until all the people who use paper are gone.

  • Upvote 1
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Bad bad bad. No Palmtalk no membership from me. This is the only part of the ips that I use. HUGE mistake

  • Upvote 2

"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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It's time to secede from the union. Let PalmTalk become a stand alone non-profit public resource and disconnect it from the IPS. I'll donate hosting space to run our own instance of ip.board.

Then maybe we can merge PalmPedia and palmTalk into a great online internet resource on palms, and the old IPS can continue doing their stuff on paper until all the people who use paper are gone.

Coming from someone that use to host the IPS forums, I say be careful what you ask for. There is a lot of data and a requirement to secure that data with daily backups. You won't fit this on some $4.99 GoDaddy account.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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OK, clearly we need a small, concise committee chaired by someone that understands all of the internet commerce issues to come up with and implement a solution. I'm barely internet literate, but I want to keep PT alive. How do we do this?

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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It's time to secede from the union. Let PalmTalk become a stand alone non-profit public resource and disconnect it from the IPS. I'll donate hosting space to run our own instance of ip.board.

Then maybe we can merge PalmPedia and palmTalk into a great online internet resource on palms, and the old IPS can continue doing their stuff on paper until all the people who use paper are gone.

Coming from someone that use to host the IPS forums, I say be careful what you ask for. There is a lot of data and a requirement to secure that data with daily backups. You won't fit this on some $4.99 GoDaddy account.

$4.99 x 12 = $50, not even thinking of shared hosting. I currently host on dedicated servers with backup for $1K/year. There is overhead as well to include. Doing it on the Amazon Cloud would be less expensive due to the ability to grow and shrink the capacity with demand. And better security to avoid DoS.

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I too joined the IPS because of Palmtalk.

Palmtalk can't exist in its current wonderful form without the support of the IPS. Those who have gone to or hope to go to any Biennials certainly want us all together. The BOD are all volunteers who spend much time sincerely trying their best. We can work this out.

Palmtalk is equally essential to the IPS! I think that is the point we need to stress to those who are not frequent visitors.

Cindy Adair

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It's time to secede from the union. Let PalmTalk become a stand alone non-profit public resource and disconnect it from the IPS. I'll donate hosting space to run our own instance of ip.board.

Then maybe we can merge PalmPedia and palmTalk into a great online internet resource on palms, and the old IPS can continue doing their stuff on paper until all the people who use paper are gone.

Coming from someone that use to host the IPS forums, I say be careful what you ask for. There is a lot of data and a requirement to secure that data with daily backups. You won't fit this on some $4.99 GoDaddy account.

$4.99 x 12 = $50, not even thinking of shared hosting. I currently host on dedicated servers with backup for $1K/year. There is overhead as well to include. Doing it on the Amazon Cloud would be less expensive due to the ability to grow and shrink the capacity with demand. And better security to avoid DoS.

Have a link? I'm not buying its a solid solution WITH backups for $83/mo. Regardless, the IPS has been down this road before. I believe they are on a Cloud offering now.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Liability. Just because someone posts plants for sale out of Florida and someone from California wants to buy them, why is it assumed that the IPS is responsible for ensuring that this transaction is under full legal terms? Does Craigslist assume responsibility for ensuring that a bicycle being sold by a owner is in fact not stolen? No the parties in the transaction have the liability. Just go to Ebay and see the number of plants being sold out of Florida to all over the place. Many are legal and some are not, but it is not Ebay's job to ensure that the grower in Florida is acting legally. Yes, if they get a report that they are selling illegally then sure Ebay may take action to prohibit future sales, but to make them the cop upfront is not right. Damn this legal liabilty BS ruins pretty much everything good out there. I was in Utah once at a hamburger chain and they asked me how I wanted my burger cooked and I said a bit pink on the inside. They told me due to liability they could not cook it that way. The organization is naive if it doesn't realize that the digital medium is the future of the organization with the ability to speak instantly with anyone around the world is key. I would guess that many of the posters on this board give the journal a cursory look at best. The focus of the journal is academic palm science and most of us are palm nut/hobbyists and the two don't always overlap that much. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.....

Bonita, California (San Diego)

Zone 10B

10 Year Low of 29 degrees

6 Miles from San Diego Bay

Mild winters, somewhat warm summers

10 Miles North of Mexico/USA Border

1 acre

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I too joined the IPS because of Palmtalk.

Palmtalk can't exist in its current wonderful form without the support of the IPS. Those who have gone to or hope to go to any Biennials certainly want us all together. The BOD are all volunteers who spend much time sincerely trying their best. We can work this out.

Palmtalk is equally essential to the IPS! I think that is the point we need to stress to those who are not frequent visitors.

apaandssa, I think the BOD does get some kind of compensation. I have no idea how much they get (its probably small), but, technically, they aren't volunteers.

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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no comment from Dean , doubt if anything will happen .

storm in a teacup ..

Michael in palm paradise,

Tully, wet tropics in Australia, over 4 meters of rain every year.

Home of the Golden Gumboot, its over 8m high , our record annual rainfall.

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no comment from Dean , doubt if anything will happen .

storm in a teacup ..

So then why mention it?

Grateful to have what I have, Les amis de mes amis sont mes amis!

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Boo. I will cancel my IPS membership

  • Upvote 1

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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I too joined the IPS because of Palmtalk.

Palmtalk can't exist in its current wonderful form without the support of the IPS. Those who have gone to or hope to go to any Biennials certainly want us all together. The BOD are all volunteers who spend much time sincerely trying their best. We can work this out.

Palmtalk is equally essential to the IPS! I think that is the point we need to stress to those who are not frequent visitors.

apaandssa, I think the BOD does get some kind of compensation. I have no idea how much they get (its probably small), but, technically, they aren't volunteers.

None

I DIG PALMS

Call me anytime to chat about transplanting palms.

305-345-8918

https://www.facebook...KenJohnsonPalms

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I too joined the IPS because of Palmtalk.

Palmtalk can't exist in its current wonderful form without the support of the IPS. Those who have gone to or hope to go to any Biennials certainly want us all together. The BOD are all volunteers who spend much time sincerely trying their best. We can work this out.

Palmtalk is equally essential to the IPS! I think that is the point we need to stress to those who are not frequent visitors.

apaandssa, I think the BOD does get some kind of compensation. I have no idea how much they get (its probably small), but, technically, they aren't volunteers.

I have read the available information regarding board compensation or lack thereof. I'm not a board member of anything, but as far as I know, a potential tax write off to help cover a percentage of actual costs for attending board meetings is the only potential monetary benefit. So I think they still qualify as volunteers. Someone actually on the board can feel free to comment.

Cindy Adair

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no comment from Dean , doubt if anything will happen .

storm in a teacup ..

I have been on the phone with Dean. I have copies of emails from Leland, the President. Want to see them? The Board of Directors has voted to stop IM's on PalmTalk. This is not good.

I DIG PALMS

Call me anytime to chat about transplanting palms.

305-345-8918

https://www.facebook...KenJohnsonPalms

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Liability. Just because someone posts plants for sale out of Florida and someone from California wants to buy them, why is it assumed that the IPS is responsible for ensuring that this transaction is under full legal terms? Does Craigslist assume responsibility for ensuring that a bicycle being sold by a owner is in fact not stolen? No the parties in the transaction have the liability. Just go to Ebay and see the number of plants being sold out of Florida to all over the place. Many are legal and some are not, but it is not Ebay's job to ensure that the grower in Florida is acting legally. Yes, if they get a report that they are selling illegally then sure Ebay may take action to prohibit future sales, but to make them the cop upfront is not right. Damn this legal liabilty BS ruins pretty much everything good out there. I was in Utah once at a hamburger chain and they asked me how I wanted my burger cooked and I said a bit pink on the inside. They told me due to liability they could not cook it that way. The organization is naive if it doesn't realize that the digital medium is the future of the organization with the ability to speak instantly with anyone around the world is key. I would guess that many of the posters on this board give the journal a cursory look at best. The focus of the journal is academic palm science and most of us are palm nut/hobbyists and the two don't always overlap that much. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.....

Ebay and others do not just magically get their shield from liability. They have to comply with certain legal procedures, which the BOD apparently does not understand or want to undertake.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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no comment from Dean , doubt if anything will happen .

storm in a teacup ..

I have been on the phone with Dean. I have copies of emails from Leland, the President. Want to see them? The Board of Directors has voted to stop IM's on PalmTalk. This is not good.

I've also been on the phone with Dean, at length.

Trust me, he cares.

A LOT.

As do Ken and I.

You should, too.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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So obviously everyone on here cares. What else can we do?

Grateful to have what I have, Les amis de mes amis sont mes amis!

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Looks like PalmPedia to the rescue!

John Case

Brentwood CA

Owner and curator of Hana Keu Garden

USDA Zone 9b more or less, Sunset Zone 14 in winter 9 in summer

"Its always exciting the first time you save the world. Its a real thrill!"

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