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Ken Johnson

PalmTalk Forum is at Risk of Closing! Help!

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Ken Johnson

Attention all members. Stay tuned to this topic if you want to keep PalmTalk up and running. We will need a lot of support. The Board of Directors has voted to make some changes that will lead to the demise of PalmTalk. They will need to be reminded of how important this site is and why it is good for the IPS in general to have it.

As new information about this issue is posted here please comment so you can let the Directors know how you feel.

The first (in) action the Board took was to stop private messaging because they felt we were letting to many people trade plants improperly so we had to shut it down to reduce liability. That also makes it so the site can't be moderated...sounds like a big problem to me. No moderator no PalmTalk..

Please post your thoughts here so we can get a groundswell of support for PalmTalk.

PS Please also read the Mods message here... http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/39089-major-changes-for-palmtalk-please-read-and-heed/

He reminds us to be civil...Thanks Dean!

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DoomsDave

PalmTalk is the IPS, like it or not.

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ErikSJI

Cha-ching. Mo money.

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JEFF IN MODESTO

The main reason I joined the IPS was Palm Talk.

Just guessing but I'd say 50% or more of new members come directly from palmtalk.

Jeff

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Milos Srejic

Oh God. Don't do it please. As Dave said, palmtalk is the IPS.

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_Keith

Cha-ching. Mo money.

My thoughts exactly. But,,,,it is really a loss leader for IPS.

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Keith in SoJax

OK, i'm confused. How is palmtalk accepting liability when people use private messaging to trade plants?

Losing Palmtalk would would be a huge blow to IPS and our community.

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sonoranfans

So trading plants is illegal? Is giving them away illegal? I'd hate to see palmtalk go away, it is the #1 resource for palm growers worldwide. Nothing beats talking with other growers when it comes to learning about palms, and no travel is necessary to have that discussion. The information content already in the thread archives far exceeds the knowledge that is available to the masses by ANY other source. But if the IPS thinks it is better off without palmtalk, I suppose they are free to disassemble it. :bummed:

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wimmie

Palmtalk should stay, because it is very important to everyone who is professinally or as a hobby busy with palms!

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paulgila

i echo the sentiments above: the MAIN reason i joined the IPS was to support palmtalk. this website has introduced me to palm people & places all over the world i never would have known without it. please DO NOT let this window to the world of palms disappear!

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Brahea Axel

This is ridiculus. There are modern ways to address this:

When signing up for PalmTalk, there needs to be a liability disclaimer in the terms and conditions that includes one about not following USDA rules when trading plants. Maybe it's time to for the IPS to hire internet savy lawyers that understand the precedents and can write the proper liability waiver when signing up. I work for Mozilla, we deal with liability all the time.

"By illegally trading any species of plants on palmTalk, you are violating the terms and conditions of PalmTalk... bla bla bla"

The hosting cost of running a service like PalmTalk should not exceed $1K a year. If the IPS actually invested some money into some online marketing, membership could climb and the revenues would go up for the IPS. The board is in need of some changes IMHO. For one, there need to be regional forums, that would also help the IPS membership to climb.

Before you shut it down, let me know, I'll be glad to take over hosting it and put out a nice beefy liability waiver in the terms and conditions at signup.

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ghar41

Not a good move IPS. I am a board member of my local PS and a huge supporter of palmtalk.

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sur4z

If we lose Palm Talk, the IPS loses me.

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Phoenikakias

I echo both considerations. By realizing the difference between various climates one can understand deeper the climate in his own place.

So trading plants is illegal? Is giving them away illegal? I'd hate to see palmtalk go away, it is the #1 resource for palm growers worldwide. Nothing beats talking with other growers when it comes to learning about palms, and no travel is necessary to have that discussion. The information content already in the thread archives far exceeds the knowledge that is available to the masses by ANY other source. But if the IPS thinks it is better off without palmtalk, I suppose they are free to disassemble it. :bummed:

i echo the sentiments above: the MAIN reason i joined the IPS was to support palmtalk. this website has introduced me to palm people & places all over the world i never would have known without it. please DO NOT let this window to the world of palms disappear!

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Kennybenjamin

The main reason I joined the IPS was Palm Talk.

Just guessing but I'd say 50% or more of new members come directly from palmtalk.

Jeff

i echo the sentiments above: the MAIN reason i joined the IPS was to support palmtalk. this website has introduced me to palm people & places all over the world i never would have known without it. please DO NOT let this window to the world of palms disappear!

I too only joined the IPS due to myself being active on Palmtalk and I thought if the IPS support Palmtalk then I should support the IPS. If Palmtalk is no longer around I doubt I will renew my IPS membership?

I also thought that loss leaders were a strategic marketing tool and pay per view would no doubt exclude a decent percentage of pt users, this surely diminishes interest in palms and hinders the sharing of knowledge and advancement of palm promotion??

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Jastin

With only 2 min to respond I can tell you that if palm talk went away, so would my yearly IPS renewal. I don't care to get a paper in the mail every few months talking about directors. That's what the IPS gives me. I would rather put my yearly money into Palmtalk because it gives me a daily feeding of all the knowledge I can handle, plus the friendships are invaluable, especially since 99% of them are from other places.

Really bad move for the IPS, Palmtalk is the glue that holds the palm community together and is a need for our younger generation of palm people.

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Jerry@TreeZoo

I said something similar before the last IPS Board of Directors election. Ask your directors how they feel and what they voted. Although they may be nice people, people I like, personally I think at least half of them should go. They are out of touch.

Palm Talk should stay and board members who vote against it should go.

Can the minutes of the Board meeting be posted so we can see what was discussed?

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Brahea Axel

It's time to secede from the union. Let PalmTalk become a stand alone non-profit public resource and disconnect it from the IPS. I'll donate hosting space to run our own instance of ip.board.

Then maybe we can merge PalmPedia and palmTalk into a great online internet resource on palms, and the old IPS can continue doing their stuff on paper until all the people who use paper are gone.

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Stevetoad

Bad bad bad. No Palmtalk no membership from me. This is the only part of the ips that I use. HUGE mistake

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Bill Austin

No palmtalk on member ship from Bill .

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LJG

It's time to secede from the union. Let PalmTalk become a stand alone non-profit public resource and disconnect it from the IPS. I'll donate hosting space to run our own instance of ip.board.

Then maybe we can merge PalmPedia and palmTalk into a great online internet resource on palms, and the old IPS can continue doing their stuff on paper until all the people who use paper are gone.

Coming from someone that use to host the IPS forums, I say be careful what you ask for. There is a lot of data and a requirement to secure that data with daily backups. You won't fit this on some $4.99 GoDaddy account.

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Palm Tree Jim

I also would like to see the minutes from the board meeting.

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Keith in SoJax

OK, clearly we need a small, concise committee chaired by someone that understands all of the internet commerce issues to come up with and implement a solution. I'm barely internet literate, but I want to keep PT alive. How do we do this?

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Brahea Axel

It's time to secede from the union. Let PalmTalk become a stand alone non-profit public resource and disconnect it from the IPS. I'll donate hosting space to run our own instance of ip.board.

Then maybe we can merge PalmPedia and palmTalk into a great online internet resource on palms, and the old IPS can continue doing their stuff on paper until all the people who use paper are gone.

Coming from someone that use to host the IPS forums, I say be careful what you ask for. There is a lot of data and a requirement to secure that data with daily backups. You won't fit this on some $4.99 GoDaddy account.

$4.99 x 12 = $50, not even thinking of shared hosting. I currently host on dedicated servers with backup for $1K/year. There is overhead as well to include. Doing it on the Amazon Cloud would be less expensive due to the ability to grow and shrink the capacity with demand. And better security to avoid DoS.

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Cindy Adair

I too joined the IPS because of Palmtalk.

Palmtalk can't exist in its current wonderful form without the support of the IPS. Those who have gone to or hope to go to any Biennials certainly want us all together. The BOD are all volunteers who spend much time sincerely trying their best. We can work this out.

Palmtalk is equally essential to the IPS! I think that is the point we need to stress to those who are not frequent visitors.

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LJG

It's time to secede from the union. Let PalmTalk become a stand alone non-profit public resource and disconnect it from the IPS. I'll donate hosting space to run our own instance of ip.board.

Then maybe we can merge PalmPedia and palmTalk into a great online internet resource on palms, and the old IPS can continue doing their stuff on paper until all the people who use paper are gone.

Coming from someone that use to host the IPS forums, I say be careful what you ask for. There is a lot of data and a requirement to secure that data with daily backups. You won't fit this on some $4.99 GoDaddy account.

$4.99 x 12 = $50, not even thinking of shared hosting. I currently host on dedicated servers with backup for $1K/year. There is overhead as well to include. Doing it on the Amazon Cloud would be less expensive due to the ability to grow and shrink the capacity with demand. And better security to avoid DoS.

Have a link? I'm not buying its a solid solution WITH backups for $83/mo. Regardless, the IPS has been down this road before. I believe they are on a Cloud offering now.

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palmaddict

Liability. Just because someone posts plants for sale out of Florida and someone from California wants to buy them, why is it assumed that the IPS is responsible for ensuring that this transaction is under full legal terms? Does Craigslist assume responsibility for ensuring that a bicycle being sold by a owner is in fact not stolen? No the parties in the transaction have the liability. Just go to Ebay and see the number of plants being sold out of Florida to all over the place. Many are legal and some are not, but it is not Ebay's job to ensure that the grower in Florida is acting legally. Yes, if they get a report that they are selling illegally then sure Ebay may take action to prohibit future sales, but to make them the cop upfront is not right. Damn this legal liabilty BS ruins pretty much everything good out there. I was in Utah once at a hamburger chain and they asked me how I wanted my burger cooked and I said a bit pink on the inside. They told me due to liability they could not cook it that way. The organization is naive if it doesn't realize that the digital medium is the future of the organization with the ability to speak instantly with anyone around the world is key. I would guess that many of the posters on this board give the journal a cursory look at best. The focus of the journal is academic palm science and most of us are palm nut/hobbyists and the two don't always overlap that much. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.....

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Keith in SoJax

I too joined the IPS because of Palmtalk.

Palmtalk can't exist in its current wonderful form without the support of the IPS. Those who have gone to or hope to go to any Biennials certainly want us all together. The BOD are all volunteers who spend much time sincerely trying their best. We can work this out.

Palmtalk is equally essential to the IPS! I think that is the point we need to stress to those who are not frequent visitors.

apaandssa, I think the BOD does get some kind of compensation. I have no idea how much they get (its probably small), but, technically, they aren't volunteers.

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aussiearoids

no comment from Dean , doubt if anything will happen .

storm in a teacup ..

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Jastin

no comment from Dean , doubt if anything will happen .

storm in a teacup ..

So then why mention it?

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MattyB

Boo. I will cancel my IPS membership

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Ken Johnson

I too joined the IPS because of Palmtalk.

Palmtalk can't exist in its current wonderful form without the support of the IPS. Those who have gone to or hope to go to any Biennials certainly want us all together. The BOD are all volunteers who spend much time sincerely trying their best. We can work this out.

Palmtalk is equally essential to the IPS! I think that is the point we need to stress to those who are not frequent visitors.

apaandssa, I think the BOD does get some kind of compensation. I have no idea how much they get (its probably small), but, technically, they aren't volunteers.

None

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Cindy Adair

I too joined the IPS because of Palmtalk.

Palmtalk can't exist in its current wonderful form without the support of the IPS. Those who have gone to or hope to go to any Biennials certainly want us all together. The BOD are all volunteers who spend much time sincerely trying their best. We can work this out.

Palmtalk is equally essential to the IPS! I think that is the point we need to stress to those who are not frequent visitors.

apaandssa, I think the BOD does get some kind of compensation. I have no idea how much they get (its probably small), but, technically, they aren't volunteers.

I have read the available information regarding board compensation or lack thereof. I'm not a board member of anything, but as far as I know, a potential tax write off to help cover a percentage of actual costs for attending board meetings is the only potential monetary benefit. So I think they still qualify as volunteers. Someone actually on the board can feel free to comment.

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Cindy Adair

Thanks for the clarification Ken!

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Ken Johnson

no comment from Dean , doubt if anything will happen .

storm in a teacup ..

I have been on the phone with Dean. I have copies of emails from Leland, the President. Want to see them? The Board of Directors has voted to stop IM's on PalmTalk. This is not good.

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DoomsDave

Liability. Just because someone posts plants for sale out of Florida and someone from California wants to buy them, why is it assumed that the IPS is responsible for ensuring that this transaction is under full legal terms? Does Craigslist assume responsibility for ensuring that a bicycle being sold by a owner is in fact not stolen? No the parties in the transaction have the liability. Just go to Ebay and see the number of plants being sold out of Florida to all over the place. Many are legal and some are not, but it is not Ebay's job to ensure that the grower in Florida is acting legally. Yes, if they get a report that they are selling illegally then sure Ebay may take action to prohibit future sales, but to make them the cop upfront is not right. Damn this legal liabilty BS ruins pretty much everything good out there. I was in Utah once at a hamburger chain and they asked me how I wanted my burger cooked and I said a bit pink on the inside. They told me due to liability they could not cook it that way. The organization is naive if it doesn't realize that the digital medium is the future of the organization with the ability to speak instantly with anyone around the world is key. I would guess that many of the posters on this board give the journal a cursory look at best. The focus of the journal is academic palm science and most of us are palm nut/hobbyists and the two don't always overlap that much. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.....

Ebay and others do not just magically get their shield from liability. They have to comply with certain legal procedures, which the BOD apparently does not understand or want to undertake.

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DoomsDave

no comment from Dean , doubt if anything will happen .

storm in a teacup ..

I have been on the phone with Dean. I have copies of emails from Leland, the President. Want to see them? The Board of Directors has voted to stop IM's on PalmTalk. This is not good.

I've also been on the phone with Dean, at length.

Trust me, he cares.

A LOT.

As do Ken and I.

You should, too.

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Jastin

So obviously everyone on here cares. What else can we do?

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John Case

Looks like PalmPedia to the rescue!

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Rafael

Please do not close palmtalk.

Years and years of precious shared experiences...

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