Brazilian Red Cloak Shrub (need some info)

[Walt]

I suspect feeding it monthly from spring into fall with a complete fertilizer, and adding a thick layer of compost as mulch would do the trick to get this blooming for you. It was a dismal failure for me here in Berkeley, California; lack of heat year round, and winters a bit too long and cool/wet. On the other hand, Justicia aurea blooms quite well here, if not in winter as it does in southern California, and takes light frosts with just leaf loss.

I feed my Brazilian red cloak every three months with a palm special fertilizer 8-2-12-2.5 (magnesium), which I use on almost all my landscape plantings (all my ixora shrubs bloom profusely). But I think I'm going to get some bloom booster (10-52-10) and see what that does.

[Cocoa Beach Jason]

When in shade, the plant's leaves stay huge and deep green and maintain an extremely tropical look. While in sun, the leaves are smaller, more compact, and more hedge-like.

[Palms1984]

Walt:

Maybe it needs a little less water? Here's a photo from my former neighbor's plant which is growing in full, south-facing sun with no water. The soil was hard like concrete. This photo was taken on June 2, 2012.

[Walt]

Walt:

Maybe it needs a little less water? Here's a photo from my former neighbor's plant which is growing in full, south-facing sun with no water. The soil was hard like concrete. This photo was taken on June 2, 2012.

Well, I see a marked contrast between your neighbor's red cloak shrub and mine. I guess once it's established it can tolerate less water.

,I have no control of water now with the rainy season upon me. When I first planted my red cloak I had to water it daily for many weeks, as the root system hadn't grown out and my shrub would wilt badly. It's rooted in now and I only water it if I see it's starting to wilt. But with the consistant rain I've been getting, my shrub is doing fine. In fact, it it growing beyond my expectations in terms of size. It's now starting to touch my roof soffit, which is about 8 feet above the ground. New sprouts or branches are growning off the original base stems. But so far not a single flower. But the rest of the plant is the picture of health. Some of the leaves are 10" or more long.

I took the below two photos today, June 15, 2014.

Above photo: My Brazilian red cloak as of 6/15/14. Note new growth coming up from base.

Above photo: A side view of my Brazilian red cloak shrub in center flanked by Ixora superking on right and Tibouchina heteromolla on left.

[Silas_Sancona]

Looks good Walt. That Super King Ixora is HUGE! The pictures of your specimen keep reminding me that I need to get mine into a bigger pot.. or in the ground, lol. Recently got an update on one id left with a neighbor back in CA before moving. Appears to have survived the winter there in San Jose and looked healthy, from what I could tell in the video he'd sent.

A little off topic, remember you mentioning you had a Peltophorium dubium specimen awhile back. Curious, has it flowered yet?.

-Nathan-

[Walt]

Nathan: Yes, my Peltophorum dubium (if that's the species) has been blooming now for several years. In fact, I've grown some more from the seed from my tree (and planted three of them, gave the rest away).

But mine certainly puzzle me compared to other P. dubium I see growing around here, if in fact they are P. dubium. The others leaf out far earlier than mine and bloom far earlier. The others are in bloom right now, and started coming into bloom several weeks ago. My trees, on the other hand, don't start to bloom until in July sometime. Further, my trees seem to hold their leaves almost all winter long, whereas the others go mostly bare, save for thousands of light brown seed pods.

I"ve compared my P. dubium against the others that grow around here for years now, and there's no variance as to the difference in leafing out and flowering times. Maybe the other ones are P. pterocarpum. The other trees are much more bushy and fuller than mine, also.

I also have a P. africanum. Some years it blooms, some years it doesn't. A few years ago it bloomed fairly heavy. Last year it only had some sporadic blooms. This tree mostly holds its leaves all winter long.

Above photo: Ixora super kings that need pruning.

[Silas_Sancona]

Interesting observations Walt, have noticed similar variance between the 3 species as well. While still seedlings, both of the P. dubium and africanum I have held their leaves through the winter.Have noticed that P. africanum does seem to grow faster that dubium though. Around town, seems that P. pterocarpum are the ones in bloom atm. Have noticed that this species defoliates sooner that the other species. Can't recall if dubium and africanum produce fragrant flowers like pterocarpum does.

-Nathan-

[Palms1984]

Walt:

Maybe it needs a little less water? Here's a photo from my former neighbor's plant which is growing in full, south-facing sun with no water. The soil was hard like concrete. This photo was taken on June 2, 2012.

Well, I see a marked contrast between your neighbor's red cloak shrub and mine. I guess once it's established it can tolerate less water.

,I have no control of water now with the rainy season upon me. When I first planted my red cloak I had to water it daily for many weeks, as the root system hadn't grown out and my shrub would wilt badly. It's rooted in now and I only water it if I see it's starting to wilt. But with the consistant rain I've been getting, my shrub is doing fine. In fact, it it growing beyond my expectations in terms of size. It's now starting to touch my roof soffit, which is about 8 feet above the ground. New sprouts or branches are growning off the original base stems. But so far not a single flower. But the rest of the plant is the picture of health. Some of the leaves are 10" or more long.

I took the below two photos today, June 15, 2014.

Above photo: My Brazilian red cloak as of 6/15/14. Note new growth coming up from base.

Above photo: A side view of my Brazilian red cloak shrub in center flanked by Ixora superking on right and Tibouchina heteromolla on left.

That's most likely very true...since, this one is established it doesn't need very much water. My former neighbor has several very large (more than 15' tall) Brazilian Red Cloaks in his yard. All are from cuttings from my 20 year old plant, which has always been a very good bloomer.

I love your Ixora 'Super King', it's so tall. I have Ixora 'Maui Red' and it blooms like crazy most of the year, but doesn't grow very tall. I think it's a dwarf. How hardy is your Ixora 'Super King' ? I've never had a freezing temp at my house in the eleven years I lived here. Typically, low 40's is the coldest temp I have recorded each winter (because of the south-facing slope I live on).

Edited June 17, 2014 by Palms1984

[Walt]

Walt:

Maybe it needs a little less water? Here's a photo from my former neighbor's plant which is growing in full, south-facing sun with no water. The soil was hard like concrete. This photo was taken on June 2, 2012.

Well, I see a marked contrast between your neighbor's red cloak shrub and mine. I guess once it's established it can tolerate less water.

,I have no control of water now with the rainy season upon me. When I first planted my red cloak I had to water it daily for many weeks, as the root system hadn't grown out and my shrub would wilt badly. It's rooted in now and I only water it if I see it's starting to wilt. But with the consistant rain I've been getting, my shrub is doing fine. In fact, it it growing beyond my expectations in terms of size. It's now starting to touch my roof soffit, which is about 8 feet above the ground. New sprouts or branches are growning off the original base stems. But so far not a single flower. But the rest of the plant is the picture of health. Some of the leaves are 10" or more long.

I took the below two photos today, June 15, 2014.

Above photo: My Brazilian red cloak as of 6/15/14. Note new growth coming up from base.

Above photo: A side view of my Brazilian red cloak shrub in center flanked by Ixora superking on right and Tibouchina heteromolla on left.

That's most likely very true...since, this one is established it doesn't need very much water. My former neighbor has several very large (more than 15' tall) Brazilian Red Cloaks in his yard. All are from cuttings from my 20 year old plant, which has always been a very good bloomer.

I love your Ixora 'Super King', it's so tall. I have Ixora 'Maui Red' and it blooms like crazy most of the year, but doesn't grow very tall. I think it's a dwarf. How hardy is your Ixora 'Super King' ? I've never had a freezing temp at my house in the eleven years I lived here. Typically, low 40's is the coldest temp I have recorded each winter (because of the south-facing slope I live on).

Yes, the Maui is a dwarf. I used to have some at one time, with a paler red flowers,but they all got zapped by freezes. They were coming back so slowly I just dug them up and replaced them with something more cold hardy. They were in a shrub bed on the N.W. side of my house, which is the coldest side, fully exposed to the N.W. winter winds.

My super kings have red flowers are more darker red than my photo show, as I took the photo in full sun and the color was washed out some.

On the coldest nights where I have frost I cover my ixora with multiple layers of bed sheets, mostly flannel sheets. Still, my ixora could experience a slight leaf drop.

In both January and December of 2010 my ixoras were almost completely defoliated with some die back. Of course, that's nature's pruning, and they all came back.

I have another ixora in the front of my house near the S.E. corner. It has a more fuller growing habit than my super kings and has a dark pinkish flower. Right now there are no flowers on it, as it was cut back hard last summer. I don't know what variety it is.

[Walt]

Well, it's officially Fall now, and still not one bloom yet on my Brazilian red cloak shrub. My shrub is now about 9 feet high at it's highest point and very full. I have no complaints with the size of my shrub, but I am disappointed it hasn't flowered. But the shrub has grown in size beyond my expectations.

[NApalm]

Looks great. Mine is about the size of your first pic. I dont have any answers for you unfortunately, but it does look very healthy. Im crossing my fingers for you

[Silas_Sancona]

Looks good Walt.. still pulling for it's first flowering.. Curious what.. if any.. fertilizer you have applied.. Wondering if maybe it is getting lots of N, thus, pushing lots of growth, but no flowers (yet).. Perhaps throwing something high in K at it might coax it into a flowering cycle?.. Anyhow, feel your frustration on awaiting first flowers on valued specimens in the garden.

-Nathan-

[Walt]

NApalm: That's my puzzlement. My shrub is so healthy -- but not one bloom!

[Walt]

Nathan: I use a palm fertilizer with an analysis of 8-2-12-2.5 (magnesium) with minors on all my landscape palms and shrubs. So my K is 50% more than N. As far as high K fertilizer, I wish I could get some locally. I would like to get a 50# bag of 0-0-62. Lesco (I think John Deere now) used to make it. Home Depot carried Lesco and I asked the nursery manager if they could get me some, and she said I would have to buy a full pallet load!

As far as my shrub not flowering, I think I read this shrub likes more shade, whereas mine is in mostly full sun, at least all afternoon. Still, I would think I would get a bloom or two on the back side (house side) where it gets mostly shade.

In any event, it is what it is. I guess I should make cuttings and start some new plants and then plant them in a more shaded spot.

[Silas_Sancona]

Interesting.. Everything sounds about right Fert-wise. Guess its just being stubborn.

-Nathan-

[Kennybenjamin]

Nathan: I use a palm fertilizer with an analysis of 8-2-12-2.5 (magnesium) with minors on all my landscape palms and shrubs. So my K is 50% more than N. As far as high K fertilizer, I wish I could get some locally. I would like to get a 50# bag of 0-0-62. Lesco (I think John Deere now) used to make it. Home Depot carried Lesco and I asked the nursery manager if they could get me some, and she said I would have to buy a full pallet load!

As far as my shrub not flowering, I think I read this shrub likes more shade, whereas mine is in mostly full sun, at least all afternoon. Still, I would think I would get a bloom or two on the back side (house side) where it gets mostly shade.

In any event, it is what it is. I guess I should make cuttings and start some new plants and then plant them in a more shaded spot.

I'm sure our climates are slightly different but mine has flowered in full sun and is a little smaller than yours....... Yours has confused me slightly but more k can't hurt?

It will flower at some stage and when it does I hope you are happy with it!!

[LJG]

Walt, this plant prefers slightly acidic soils. I know it does fine in higher pH, but too high and it might cause it to not bloom? Not sure what your pH is, but a lot of soils in FL are of course alkaline as you know and to top it off you have it planted against the house where the foundation increases pH as well. Maybe try a Azalea/Camellia type fertilizer. Worth a shot. I doubt it is a sun issue. These things take full SoCal sun and flower like crazy.

Another to remember is unlike palms, most flowering plants require more N than any other macro. Also it is not K that is as important as it is P to stimulate blooming and induce bud set.

[Walt]

LJG: Then you just puzzled me even more, as my soil is very acidic. Being located on the spine (center line of the state), I'm as far away from the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of Mexico as you can be. There is no limestone and sea shell in my area like the coastal areas of Florida. Most pH of soils here are well below 5.0, say in the low 4.0 range. Even though my Brazilian red cloak is growing up close to my house foundation (where lime can leach into the soil and raise the pH), I highly doubt the soil pH is too high. When I went through our county extension office master gardener program about 13-14 years ago my class had to check their soil pH. Most of the students recorded in the low 4.0. I did a composite sample and registered 3.64! It may have been a fluke or bad reading, but I've been involved with the soil pH testing for customers (such as home owners and landscaping and lawn maintenance companies) and the soil is very acidic here.

That being said, I have many flowering plants that don't want to bloom. For instance, I have a Delonix regia tree that I planted as a 7 gallon and it is now been in the ground 12-13 years -- and has never bloomed.

My Peltophorum africanum tree hasn't bloomed for the past several years (although it's bloomed before that).

My 16 year old jacaranda tree has never bloomed. I have several other jacaranda trees up to 20 feet tall and have never bloomed.

My largest Peltophorum dubium only produced minimal blooms this summer. I have another P. dubium one year younger that is maybe only 1/4 the size of my larger tree (why that is I don't know) and hasn't bloomed for several years now, although it's bloomed several times before many years ago.

I have a 15-18 feet tall Caesalpinia pulcherrima that has never bloomed, and I grew this small tree from seed.

I realize some of the above species prefer dry winter conditions to produce maximum blooms. But winter is Florida's dry season (less than 3" per month. Some months less than 2")

It's one thing, IMO, for a flowering tree or shrub to only have sparse, sporadic blooms -- but no blooms at all?

No matter, I like my Brazilian red cloak shrub for its foliage, so if I have to continue to wait for blooms, that's fine.

[LJG]

Walt, if your soil is that acidic that would cause issues too. I can't beleive you have seen 3.64. That's crazy. I would do the reverse then. Hit it with dolomitic lime. I would also use more phosphorus. When you remove light, water, pest and fungus from the equation there really isn't much left past soil and nutrition. Good luck!

[Walt]

LJG: I think I will take in a soil sample (I can do it myself at my extension office) from the root area of my Brazilian red cloak shrub and see what the pH is.

I have potassium and magnesium deficiency issues with some species of palms, and I do put down dolomitic lime (and also wood ash) to help bring up the pH. I managed to get the soil on these palms up to 6.2 and 5.9 the last time I did a pH test.

I will post back in the future once I find out what the pH is -- or if I get my first flower.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Walt, I think your Brazilian Cloak is too happy. It is staying in a permanent vegetative state and does not see the need to bloom. The leaves are about twice the size of most around here, and much greener. I think phosphates are your friend here.

[Walt]

Jerry: Sounds logical to me. My plant is so happy and unthreatened by nature it has no need to flower and reseed for self-preservation of its species.

[LJG]

Mine is really going off this time of year. It has gotten very large over the years.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Showoff.

[Walt]

LJG: I'd say your Brazilian red cloak has put on an ostentatious display of flowers! I'd be a happy man if my shrub did the same. I think my wife would flip out, as she loves just about any plant that flowers. I may have to show her your shrub so she will know what our shrub would look like in flower.

.

[mnorell]

Walt, I think it's as simple as the Megaskepasma simply not being in their bloom-season this time of year in south Florida (I should modify that to say at least not in the Keys, though in my casual observations I have never noticed them flowering on the mainland this time of year, either). They usually start blooming in winter for me (I've also noticed this at Fairchild) and keep going into early summer, with some variation and/or extension of that schedule. But right now is their growth-only time. And re Jerry's statement that your shrub is too happy and your leaves are too large--I think I have to differ in opinion, as I think there's another mechanism involved in flower-initiation. My leaves are even larger than yours (gigantic!) and that is with no supplemental water to speak of. They just thrive on our limestone and look lush and green and the leaves are HUGE. And when the flowers start in winter they are spectacular. It is one of the most strangely underrated and unknown shrubs.

And it's very interesting--but not that unusual for some plants--that Len's specimen is flowering in SoCal right now. Schedules are often reversed between here and there. Spathodea is a perfect example. Their general behavior is to flower in cool coastal California in late summer and fall (right now), when there is finally some heat buildup. And only in very mild years does it flower there during Florida's and Hawai'is typical season of Feb-May. I have noticed this behavior for many years. What's strange is that with the near-tropical 2014 that California has had, Spathodea bloomed not only in spring but are also doing their fall bloom right now. My sister lives in Cardiff-by-the-sea and she told me today that there is a row of eight trees near her house, and seven are in full bloom. One doesn't have a flower on it. Funny. Megaskepasma I think is equally strange. I grew it in Natchez, Mississippi for a few years as a returning half-hardy perennial and it refused to ever bloom, I think because it needed a frost-free winter on which to harden growth before flowering...like Alpinia gingers. This is highly unusual behavior for the typically cultivated plants in the Acanthaceae. While I don't think there is any photoperiod trigger for this species, you might want to make sure you don't have any bright lights on your plant at night...just on the off-chance that day-length plays some part in flowering.

[Walt]

Mike, Thanks for your comprehensive reply.

I started my Brazilian red cloak from two cuttings a palm acquaintance sent me in the mail. He made the cuttings from his shrub in Vero Beach, Florida (where he got blooms).

I rooted my cuttings in 2012 and planted out a well established potted plant in the spring of 2013. So, my shrub went through the fall and winter of 2013-14 -- with no blooms. And my shrub was close to five feet high during last winter, so judging from photos of other's flowering shrubs, I feel my shrub was at least big enough to produce some blooms.

Fearing my shrub might get frost damaged last winter I constructed a crude enclosure to completely cover it with layers of flannel sheets (basically a tent). The foliage incurred no cold/frost damage. I only covered the shrub on nights where frost was predicted and uncovered the shrub during the day. It's good I did cover it because my huge Tibouchina heteromalla (right next to my red cloak) got major frost damage. I cut the tibouchina way down. But that's no problem for the tibouchina since it regrows with lightening speed. It got so large it fell over from wind that blew down from my house roof.

My Brazilian red cloak is now too large to protect. I'm sure it will get frost damage and maybe some wood damage this coming winter, especially if it gets colder than last winter, where my coldest low was 30 degrees with frost. This spring I plan to prune my red cloak and also make some cuttings so to try this plant in other locations about my property. This time I will put a plant in a more shaded or broken sun location.

You noted different bloom periods of various flowering trees. My Ceiba speciosa hasn't a bloom on it, but lots of buds that should soon start to open soon. Yet, other trees in my area have been in bloom since August. I was down in Ft. Myers last August and noticed C. speciosa were in bloom.

[mnorell]

I have a feeling you will see blooms this winter/spring...if, fingers crossed, there is no devastating freeze at your place. I have been told that it will grow and flower in Houston in mild years, so it should take right around the freezing point and perhaps just a little bit of frost and still do fine. It seems such a carefree shrub but if it doesn't bloom this coming season, then perhaps Jerry and Len are right and you need to play with your fertilizer regime. I had not noticed your mention of extreme low pH, and I think they could be right that this is surely an area to investigate! My soil is not rich in the least, it is very high pH, and perhaps it does have something to do with the incredibly long bloom-period at my place. I have seen plants blooming in 7-gallon containers in a nursery (though maybe due to cramping stress?), and mine have bloomed at young ages after planting cuttings. Since this is one of the easiest and quickest plants to propagate (like lots of the other Acanthaceae), maybe you should think about taking your cuttings now before any undesirable cold has a chance to whittle down your opportunity in the spring. Have you thought about planting some of these under some evergreen tree-canopy for frost protection? They grow and bloom beautifully in shade.

[Walt]

Michael: Generally, I won't get my first frost until very late December, sometimes the first part of January. I would hope by then I would at least start to see some flowers beginning to form. If so, I may try to erect a down and dirty cover to at least try to protect my red cloak to some extent. I may even cut my shrub down some, after all, I never expected it to start growing above the roof.

I may take your suggestion and make some cuttings now and get a head start on this spring. And yes, I do plan on planting some more of these shrubs in more shaded and broken sun areas. I looked in one of my plant books and it said they prefer a more shaded spot. Had I known that before I planted my shrub I would have planted it elsewhere. Further, in my shaded area my nighttime low temperatures are usually a few degrees higher, and also far more less prone to get frost. I have a digital pocket thermometer that is graduated in tenths of a degree F, and it's fairly sensitive. On my coldest nights and mornings I would walk around my property and note the temperatures on my highest ground areas and lowest ground areas and canopied areas. I purposely did this many times to find where my best microclimates were for planting purposes.

I always try to plant strategically. For frost sensitive plants I try to plant under high tree canopy, but on the south side so the plant (if it is sun loving plant) can get maximum sunshine and the soil can absorb lots of solar radiation. If it's a shade loving plant, then I will plant on the north side of the canopy or west side, etc.

[Walt]

Finally! After so long! My Brazilian red cloak shrub is finally starting to develop flowers. I only saw these two emerging ones this morning when my wife and I were walking about the property inspecting our landscape.

I will re post photos once my shrub (hopefully) is full of blooms. I'm not concerned about frost, as I have a good two months + before I need to concern myself about that. By then my shrub should have put on a good show. But perhaps the blooms will only be sparse, who knows. In any event, I look forward to seeing what happens.

[Silas_Sancona]

Congrats Walt!!

Was thinking about your specimen while looking at the plant in USF's Botanical garden. Was there for the fall sale.

-Nathan-

[The Silent Seed]

I just picked up two or three of these today - about 2 feet tall. I noticed that the stem bulges at each set of leaf nodes - almost like buddha's belly bamboo. Anyone else notice this funky aspect ?

[Silas_Sancona]

Jude,

Pretty normal on this species, also see this on some Justica species.. or, has been my observations on my own plants.

-Nathan-

[The Silent Seed]

Very cool - thanks!

[Al in Kona]

I planted my first Brazilian Red Cloak about 10 years ago. It grew well with virtually no care, set seed and a few volunteers came up of which I transplanted several more to other areas. Since then all the plants now growing are all from volunteers. This is one of the plants that have naturalized in the garden without having become a pest or "weed". Seems there are flowers blooming on some plants a good part of the year - winter to early spring less, however. If they grow too tall, they can be trimmed back as far as you want and new growth will start again. I have never fertilized mine or give them supplemental water, other than rain. Here's a pic of one that grew on its own to the rear of two cycads: Zamia inermis (L), and Zamia pygmea (smaller one) to the right side.

[Al in Kona]

I planted my first Brazilian Red Cloak about 10 years ago. It grew well with virtually no care, set seed and a few volunteers came up of which I transplanted several more to other areas. Since then all the plants now growing are all from volunteers. This is one of the plants that have naturalized in the garden without having become a pest or "weed". Seems there are flowers blooming on some plants a good part of the year - winter to early spring less, however. If they grow too tall, they can be trimmed back as far as you want and new growth will start again. I have never fertilized mine or give them supplemental water, other than rain. Here's a pic of one that grew on its own to the rear of two cycads: Zamia inermis (L), and Zamia pygmea (smaller one) to the right side.

[NApalm]

Pump it up!!!!

[MattyB]

Andrew gave me a plant of this several months ago and iit's now huge and flowering profusely with water only once every two weeks

[The Silent Seed]

Hi guys

Lots of you mention take cuttings - does it matter where you cut, in relation to the "bumps?" Is green wood OK, or should it be last year's wood?

[Matt in OC]

Got a tease of my first bloom. This was the second summer I'd had this in the ground. The first summer it did very little, but then all of a sudden exploded this year. I think they love lots of water and prefer their roots in shade. Looking forward to more blooms in the spring!!