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_Keith

B. afredii Zone 9a Hardy?

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palm tree man

He most definitely did not wright that this year! lol Thanks guys for the comments. I was a bit apprehensive to join this forum initially but you all have been warm and welcoming and for that I am grateful.

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palm tree man

Alice Hunter was that your Copernicia in your yard? I can't believe that you guys saw that kind of winter action! We didn't see any of that for the most part. I had no idea it got that rough for you guys this winter on the Gulf.

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Alicehunter2000

Yes, I got 3 albas.....the tall one just got a crownectomy. It's a Brutal Planet.

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palm tree man

Man that was a really nice palm; my condolences to you sir. Honestly, I take my plants personally, possibly too personally and I morn any loss for years. I am still thinking about the night my greenhouse fire went our and I was out of town and I lost my copernicia rigida and my yarey among other juvenille palms. It was tragic for me anyway, so for what it is worth I hope that they bounce back for you better than before.

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palm tree man

Alice let me know how they are please and if any push a new spear please also let me know. I am trying to make a true record of these events that can be passed onward to other gardeners, so that they will know the tolerances of our wonderful palms. Most literature is somewhat lacking in the area of survivability and that has led to a great deal of speculation and experimentation. We can change this and give our fellow palm lovers a true, factual basis to depend upon. I myself have desired this indulgence and I know that many forum members have as well. The question is how can we accomplish this task?

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Tropicdoc

Check out the freeze damage data section... good info there, successes and failures. Or do you mean publishing a book or something?

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Alicehunter2000

Here are the two I got from fishbranch. The first one almost died after transplanting last spring. I think it got dried out on the semi truck trip up here. I cut the head off after the center pulled out. It was doing pretty good but then this winter came along and whacked it again. I wrapped it in a blanket but the fronds pretty much are gone again ... the central spear and petiole base are green tight.post-97-0-96089900-1391569851_thumb.jpg

The other took the full force of the Artic Vortex then was only covered with this beach tent during the big ice freeze. That is ice on the tent.post-97-0-63325000-1391570196_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-80677800-1391570244_thumb.jpg

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palm tree man

No, I had a Sam Adams variety pack last night and got a little carried away. Sorry guys I blame it on all the different types of hops. I am by no means qualified to even co-author a book; I would need much, much more experience and knowledge. There is s nursery in San Diego for example that has some really nice articles on cold hardy palms and there real tolerances this type of thing should be done regionally. Doc our hot and cold is entirely different from California and in the same token your cold, my cold, and what is seen by our brothers in Florida is also different. Through out the years I wish that I had a resource that clearly says if you grow this you better get christmas lights out and frost cloth if this type cold event happens. Honestly, I left out a hyophorbe lagenicaulis out in a pot over night and the temperature got lower than what its tolerances should have been and it was fine. Now it was quickly put in the greenhouse first thing in the morning and it was a very healthy plant before exposure. This lead me to believe that a healthy happy plant can endure more early on. There is a site by Dave Witt, who I had the pleasure of speaking with on several occasions back in the early 2000's. Wow, it is really funny typing that let's just say around 2002. Anyway his records are excellent and he invested a ton of money and if I had talked to him before I would not have spent lets just say a great deal of money on palms that would not work even with protection because they had too many strikes against them right off the bat. Something without fluff that says this palm is best in or has to have this type of soil to be successful. People amend there soil to grow shrubs and vegetables and I feel that a resource that says what ph, soil composition, etc. a given palm likes would really help starting hobbyist become more successful. If someone had told me in 2000 not to mess with Dypsis Decipiens roots I might have been more successful with them then instead of wasting lots of money on a palm that should have been fine otherwise. I treated them like a butia and other palms that I had experience with and didn't know about the heel, etc. There are guides for Livistona Chinensis, Phoenix Canariensis, Wasingtonia Robusta, etc. right on the pot. It is the less common palms that will always be for people like us that need more conclusive information.

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_Keith

Scratch this post.

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palm tree man

David you really did get blasted. You guys must have seen the worst of it. I have done the exact same thing with a palm before; we had a snow flurry which is a blue moon event and I had mini greenhouses all over my property. Good thinking with the beach tent. You seem allot like me; I am willing to do things like that to protect my plants. Alba seems to bounce back fairly well and the spear not pulling is a good sign. They are nice palms and I really hope they are ok. I fertilized mine right after the cold and treated them with fungicide too whether they saw any burn or not. I get frantic though when these cold events happen. lol

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Sandy Loam

Hi Daniel.

Here is a link about the Pondoland Palm which you were inquiring about:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/22171-jubaeopsis-caffra-pondoland-palm/

Ed says that it is too tender for the Jacksonville climate and won't survive there without winter protection. I don't know where you are along the Georgia coast, but you probably have a similar climate to Jacksonville. However, the Jubaeopsis Caffra (Pondoland Palm) does appear to grow fine in central Florida. Speculation is that South Florida is too hot and humid for it because it prefers a mediterranean climate, even though South Florida is conducive to tender tropical palms.

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palm tree man

I thought as much; I sold the seedlings that I germinated years ago because I thought they might be tender. About six years ago I put one in the ground but honestly it was too small and it wasn't in the ground long enough before winter. Many people have had limited success with them though. North Florida, some Gulf areas, and extreme south and coastal Georgia might try them but they must be protected during our worst winters much like hibiscus or more tender citrus trees. For me that is usually two to three times, now I can live with that but as I age you might see some nice palms looking for a good home some place warmer. I have come to terms with my climate and have gotten pretty good at protecting plants. I grew up on a farm after all and protecting a crop from a late, surprise frost meant the difference between doing well or selling land at the end of the year. Thank you, I really appreciate your response and I am checking out the thread. I agree about the humidity; I have had trouble with pure non hybrid jubaea in the past. Thank you again and I hope that you have a nice evening.

Daniel

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Tropicdoc

Daniel, I would love to hear or see some of your cold protection tricks. Maybe start a thread, but let me know about it.

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palm tree man

Many of the things I do are pretty simple and allot of it is about prepping the plant ahead of time if possible. For larger palms, I have built make shift cold frames. I was in construction during the building boom, so luckily there is allot of scrap lumber, etc. around my place. When I replace the plastic on my greenhouse, I always keep it to make covers as well. That would be a pretty cool thread really, I know I have honestly freaked out and not known what to do when we had a surprise cold event. It might help other gardeners in the same situation.

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Tropicdoc

I gave up on the makeshift frame thing when one of mine collapsed. Now I just spend the money on spring gardener greenhouses.

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palm tree man

I have a few of those as well and the cheaper carports and enclosures also work. The car enclosures are not vented but they retain heat well and keep the more fragile areas of the plant away from the vinyl or plastic which can transfer some of the cold to the tender green leaves. I double wrap if things are going to get really bad or use what I call a thermal sock.

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palm tree man

Has anyone had any experience with Dypsis Carlsmithii or Dypsis Saintelucei? I have heard good things about Saintlelucei, but have no personal experience with it.

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Sandy Loam

I have Dypsis Saintelucei growing in Gainesville, Florida, but not the other one. I don't even bother protecting the D. Saintelucei on extra cold nights because it has been a slow grower for me and I am not terribly attached to it. I don't think it has experienced any damage in the 2 years that I have had it.

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palm tree man

Do you leave it unprotected this winter? If so this might be a good contender to experiment on the coast. How did it handle frost? Thank you for you response.

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palmsnbananas

Saint Lucei uncovered this winter no damage at 24 degrees, its in oak canopy, definitely one of the best looking 9a palms

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palm tree man

I have heard allot of good things about it and wish that I had taken the initiative to buy seed years ago. If it can handle 24 under canopy without any other protection then it is a tough palm. How does it handle the summer heat and humidity?

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Sandy Loam

no problem with frost for me and no problem with heat and humidity. However, it is taking forever to grow.

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Sandy Loam

I take it back. I don't think I should give an opinion about frost because it probably has never experienced "frost" per se. My dypsis saintelucei was not yet in the ground when we had that dreadful 2009/2010 freeze event.

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Tropicdoc

hmmm dypsis st lucei is a 9a palm?

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palm tree man

I am not sure doc; I am going to try one under oak canopy and see what happens. It appears to be pretty tough though and maybe not as picky as some dypsis, so I am going to try it. Frost can be easy to guard against as long as you get a heads up on a frost event, so for me that isn't really an issue. We are typically on par with or warmer than Gainesville for sure. I started growing allot of palms because they were doing well at UF. They aren't that expensive and I need an experiment this year, so wish me well.

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palm tree man

I am glad that we aren't getting that artic mass on the Atlantic side. My low for tonight is 47 and will be above 40 for the next two weeks. The Alfredii that I have in the ground is small but I know it can take 26 degrees unprotected or with very little protection. It is not out in the open but on the south side of my house but not under any form of shelter other than the house blocking the cold north and west winds. I would protect it at 20 though; I am just overly cautious. Good luck and I hope that the forecast is off like it often is here and you don't see a frost. :)

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palmsnbananas

It's clearly a 9b palm, but 9a is just another word for "im going to try 9b palms!" It loves the heat and humidity, I think some so cal people might have a tough time because its too dry/sunny for it (my guess).

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palm tree man

This is most true, if you live in 9A you desire to grow 10A plants, but I feel that we have come to realize that we can successfully on most counts but only if we are willing to sacrifice a small amount of time to protect them during the very worst of our cold season. It is all about commitment really, a 10A plant can easily grow in Georgia, Alabama, South C., or northern Florida but certain precautions must be taken into consideration.

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Perito

Beccariophoenix alfredii may or may not have survived Winter, but it certainly died in this thread.

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palm tree man

Yes my small palm still has young green leaves, but it is still alive and has seen the worst cold front that I have experienced in coastal Georgia in nearly forty years. This palm is truly one that should be experimented with in the southeastern United States. It appears to enjoy our warm seasons but will survive our cold as a seedling. The verdict is not in yet but I feel that we should give this amazing palm a chance.

Edited by palm tree man

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_Keith

The B. alfredii are starting to look quite rough. Even with some protection, this anything but normal 9a winter may have been too much for the newly planted youngsters. They were not to the size that they would have much energy in their roots and trunks. I am afraid their only hope I think is if the heat comes early and they can start to put on some new growth fast.

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Sutter Bob

I would never plant another one in the open here but would try with high cover.

My best two of three had basically no visible damage this winter.

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palm tree man

I had high hopes for it to possibly be an alternative to the fairly expensive mule palm, but it seems that more mature trunking palms need to be tested. Cover is the key with many species here as well. If you have a nice evergreen canopy, you have a marginal palm growers utopia as long as the species you are growing can tolerate the shade anyway.

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Sandy Loam

B. Alfredii was quite shade-tolerant for me.

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palm tree man

I might big mine up an plant it under oak canopy that will give it a fighting chance until it gets larger.

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_Keith

I might big mine up an plant it under oak canopy that will give it a fighting chance until it gets larger.

That is exactly where I have the 4 that Chad gave me. Didn't help much with the years advective freezes. In a normal year, they would have been fine.

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palm tree man

Advective freezes are the worst and unfortunately they are a reality in the South. They are rare but they are a brutal reality.

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Sandy Loam

Hey PalmTreeMan --

I do not recommend digging up your Beccariophoenix Alfredii unless it was planted within the past year at most. After I dug mine up to move it, mine soon went into decline as a result of the roots being disturbed. It seems to be root-sensitive once established, like certain other palms. The roots were not like a tap root going straight down. When I dug it up, the rootball looked like a bunch of rots heading way off to the left and right with very few roots directly beneath it. Many of the roots were surprisingly close to the surface, unlike most palms.

If you transplant yours, I would recommend digging up a very large quantity of earth around the rootball when you do so.

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palm tree man

It was just a thought, I think after hearing that info that it should remain where it is. :)

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