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Definition of "Cold Hardy palm growing"


Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Who belongs in the Cold Hardy palm forum?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. Who belongs in the Cold Hardy palm forum?

    • Anyone growing Palms in places where palms normally don't grow like Kansas or the Netherlands
      6
    • Anyone growing Palms outside of Hawaii, Coastal San Diego, south of Queensland or South Florida
      6
    • Anyone growing Palms North of the tropic of Cancer or South of the tropic of Capricorn
      3
    • If you can't grow a coconut without protection, then you belong in the cold hardy forum
      4
    • If you can't grow a kentia without protection, then you belong in the cold hardy forum
      10
    • If you can't grow a trachy without protection, then you belong int he cold hardy form
      5


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After spending some time on PalmTalk, I've come to realize that cold hardy means different things to different people. I've not posted much on the cold hardy palm forum because I viewed it as a forum for people who try to grow palms in non-palm climates like Kansas or the Netherlands, or where palms are uncommon, such as the Pacific Northwest or England.

But more and more, I realize that for many, hardy palms is anyone trying to grow palms outside the tropics, Hawaii, far South Florida, and outside the mild coastal zones of Southern California. So should we be posting solely to this forum instead? Most of my topics get tagged "cold hardy" anyway. My zone maybe 10a, but the law of averages dictates we drop to 9b once in a while, so I try to stick with mostly 9b palms to begin with. I keep my true zone 10a plants on the hill with a lot of protection.

What say you?

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There was a previous discussion along these lines. In that conversation the consensus seemed to be the line between Zone 9a and 9b. I am not sure where that falls in the descriptions above, but I chose this one which was the closest I saw.

"Anyone growing Palms outside of Hawaii, Coastal San Diego, south of Queensland or South Florida"

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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I think 9a and below are cold hardy palms/growers. This is probably 5% or less of all palm species. If 95%+ aint good enough for you, I dont know what to say. Of course, the people in 7a and below are the champs of cold hardy palm growing.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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I think 9a and below are cold hardy palms/growers. This is probably 5% or less of all palm species. If 95%+ aint good enough for you, I dont know what to say. Of course, the people in 7a and below are the champs of cold hardy palm growing.

Agreed.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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There was a previous discussion along these lines. In that conversation the consensus seemed to be the line between Zone 9a and 9b. I am not sure where that falls in the descriptions above, but I chose this one which was the closest I saw.

"Anyone growing Palms outside of Hawaii, Coastal San Diego, south of Queensland or South Florida"

I think he means us Keith

Best regards

Ed

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This is beginning to clarify things for me. PalmPedia has a good breakdown for the various zones. See http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/MEDITERRANEAN_SURVIVABILITY_INDEX for the West Coast and for Southeast Australia and New Zealand, and http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/SUBTROPICAL_SURVIVABILITY_INDEX for folks in Florida and Queensland.

Which brings me to the simple question: which survivabiliity zone is the cut off to be considered for the hardy palm forum?

Based on the comments above, I would nominate the following:

Subtropical: anything colder than SSI#5A: http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/SPECIES_ZONE_SCALE_5A:_The_Coco_Zone

Mediteranean: anything colder than MSI#4B: http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/MEDITERRANEAN_SURVIVABILTY_INDEX_ZONE_4B:_The_Coconut_Zone

So that basically means that if you can't grow a coconut, you belong in the cold hardy forum.

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So a Royal Palm is a cold hardy palm? I would probably stick to the 9a and colder definition of cold hardy. Also, the coconut definition would make all of California in the cold hardy zone.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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Long Live the Zone 5B Container Ranch!!!

(I'd step over my own mother for a viable coconut in husk!)

"Ph'nglui mglw'napalma Funkthulhu R'Lincolnea wgah'palm fhtagn"
"In his house at Lincoln, dread Funkthulhu plants palm trees."

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I'd say anywhere you cant drive down the street and cant see palms almost everywhere, you probably should be on the cold hardy board.

Another way of looking at it, if you cant grow oranges in your home garden, you'd should probably be on the cold hardy board.

If the ground freezes where you live, you probably should be on the cold hardy palm board.

If your official 50 year low is below 15f.... well, you get my point.

Jeff

Modesto, CA USDA 9b

July/August average 95f/63f

Dec/Jan average 55f/39f

Average lowest winter temp 27f

Record low temp 18f

Record high temp 113f

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I'd say anywhere you cant drive down the street and cant see palms almost everywhere, you probably should be on the cold hardy board.

Another way of looking at it, if you cant grow oranges in your home garden, you'd should probably be on the cold hardy board.

If the ground freezes where you live, you probably should be on the cold hardy palm board.

If your official 50 year low is below 15f.... well, you get my point.

Jeff

That definition puts Seattle people in the main forum, there are trachys all over Seattle, I've been there and seen it. Your definition leaves our friend Funkthulhu to socialize with our Axel from Amsterdam and a small minority of others in this forum.

Nope, I say if you have to worry about a 50 year freeze that takes you into the low 20's, you belong in the cold hardy palm forum.

In fact, I say that if you have to talk about Winter survivability, that by definition puts you in the cold hardy palm forum. There's no such thing as "Winter" in tropical places.

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I think it's also a question of perception. I always have to smile a little bit when some people talk about hard or 100 year freezes with temperatures that can still occur in april where I live. For me a coldhardy palm is one that can take cold temperatures (around 0C) for a longer period of time. In German we also use a term which translates as "winter-hardy" because most coldhardy plants are still not winter-hardy where we live. So, as winter-hardy I consider palms that can handle prolonged frosts and wet and recover quickly enough even with low temperatures. This basically leaves one with Trachycarpus, maybe Chamaerops. Younger Sabal and Rhapidophyllum will gradually decline and eventually die. I have no experience with older, settled in plants however.

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In my climate, which is rather distinguished through irregular dips but with dry hot summer and warm fall temps, cold hardy means also to a very significant extent the abiltiy of a palm to replace quickly damaged fronds, such as Coccothrinax and Pritchardia.

Edited by Phoenikakias
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I think 9a and below are cold hardy palms/growers. This is probably 5% or less of all palm species. If 95%+ aint good enough for you, I dont know what to say. Of course, the people in 7a and below are the champs of cold hardy palm growing.

I think that this is probably a better way to define it. Percentage of palm species that can be grown.

Don't know where line is that would coincide with the 80/20 rule that is found throughout nature and life in general, but that might be considered as well.....maybe 9b/10a line?

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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