Fukushima is just what I feared it would become...

[Mandrew968]

I posted a thread on this before and got a bunch of negative feedback. A lot of people accused me of making this a bigger incident/issue than it really was. Well, one of my main points was this incident would be worse than the Chernobyl disaster, when it is all said and done... but when will it all be said and done? That's the issue--Japan will not be safe for a very long time and the ground water contamination combined with the leaks flowing into the ocean make this a serious issue with no end in site. I live less than 4 miles from a Nuclear power plant and the thought of losing my house due to an accident is very frightening! Japan has now turned off all of their Nuclear power plants, but for them it may be too late...

[Mandrew968]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/crippled-fukushima-reactor-to-get-ice-wall-1.1335111

The governemnt has stepped in to build an 'Ice Wall' which will not even be completed till mid 2015.

Already an estimated 800-1000 tons of groundwater is being contaminated everyday.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

I don't know how the intensity of the disasters compare, but the locations could not be more different. Chernobyl is in an isolated wilderness where it is easy to move away in any direction. Japan, being a densely populated island, there just are not many choices to make.

[Mandrew968]

I don't know how the intensity of the disasters compare, but the locations could not be more different. Chernobyl is in an isolated wilderness where it is easy to move away in any direction. Japan, being a densely populated island, there just are not many choices to make.

Jerry, that's a great point--aside from Japan being a high density place, it's not much bigger than Florida...

[Mandrew968]

Experts estimate that 300 tons of radioactive water leak into the ocean daily--it has been leaking now for over 2 years!

[Funkthulhu]

Okay, so, this was put out by xkcd right after the tsunami (so it's a bit out dated): http://xkcd.com/radiation/

However, it is good reference for what we're dealing with as far as what the radiation reports actually mean.

Another thing to consider is the capacity of water to absorb and block radiation (hence using it at every nuclear energy plant).

Interestingly enough, you could swim in a pool containing spent fuel rods and so long as you weren't right next to the rods you would probably absorb less radiation than if you were not in the water at all. http://what-if.xkcd.com/29/ Water is just really good at blocking radiation.

I am not, in any way, saying that the Fukushima disaster is less than horrible. I just want to insert a bit of factual information about radiation for general education purposes. Also, keep in mind the inverse square law: if you double your distance from the source you drop your exposure to 1/4th. The worry at Fukushima is not the level of radiation (which is easy to avoid) but the possibility that the radiation could become mobile (like Chernobyl) and make escape from exposure difficult on short notice depending on weather patterns and so on.

[waykoolplantz]

Much worse than Chernobyl...polluting the ocean

Should make night fishing a blast...glowing fish !.

Go Vegan or Glow !!

[Mandrew968]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/is-fukushima-radiation-contaminating-tuna-salmon-and-herring-on-the-west-coast-of-north-america/5346942

This is not a Japan issue, it's a global one.

[Funkthulhu]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/is-fukushima-radiation-contaminating-tuna-salmon-and-herring-on-the-west-coast-of-north-america/5346942

This is not a Japan issue, it's a global one.

If the fish in vancouver were hemoraging from radiation out of fukushima, the entire eastern coast of asia would be dead...

This article is questionable at best.

[Mandrew968]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/is-fukushima-radiation-contaminating-tuna-salmon-and-herring-on-the-west-coast-of-north-america/5346942

This is not a Japan issue, it's a global one.

If the fish in vancouver were hemoraging from radiation out of fukushima, the entire eastern coast of asia would be dead...

This article is questionable at best.

Your "if, then" statement is highly questionable--I don't question that certain people tested tuna and herring and found them to be affected by this nuclear disaster, but you are entilted to... To me it makes perfect sense that a huge disaster like Fukushima could effect a larger area for a long time... your statement leads me to believe you also question ocean currents(as this would explain why the findings were found where they were...) and probably other things stipulated...

[Mandrew968]

"Interestingly enough, you could swim in a pool containing spent fuel rods and so long as you weren't right next to the rods you would probably absorb less radiation than if you were not in the water at all. http://what-if.xkcd.com/29/ Water is just really good at blocking radiation. "

I will let your avatar and this speak for you...

[Funkthulhu]

Just saying, man, if I want to back up my position I quote the peer-reviewed science article, not a fluff piece in conspiracy blog... http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca

I am very aware of how ocean currents work, and where they go. What I think you are not aware of is just how much volume of water is in those currents vs the volume of material leaked from fukushima and the resulting dilution of the radiation. There is little, if any, direct threat to the US or its food supply.

[Stevetoad]

For once Eric and I agree on something.

[paulgila]

always question the source.

[DoomsDave]

Laugh all you want, but nuke power for mass generation isn't feasible in the long run. Forget for a moment about the accidents waiting to happen with their cooling systems. What are we going to do with all the waste? It has a half-life of 10,000 years.

There used to be an operating nuke plant right near the San Diego / Orange County border, tsunami-ready, right on the ocean.

It's been shut down now, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Onofre_Nuclear_Generating_Station.

I hope the Japanese will take the time to develop what would appear to be very large geothermal resources, since they don't have any oil. Imagine Japan as a net energy exporter?

[Dypsisdean]

As Paul said - always question the source of "news" story. In addition, I have never found that highly technical and scientifically complex subject matter such as this always suffer severely when dragged through the standard media. And virtually everyone of these "news" outlets have a predisposed bias that influences the reporting. And much of the hyper-negative and alarmist reporting are from sources that oppose nuclear power. And people who read them come away with statements like Andrew's - "I told my brother I am concerned for him living in Southern California as they get japan's winds"

I have not yet read any credible evidence that people in SoCal have been in any danger. Energy for modern man has to come from somewhere. There isn't a method of creating it that doesn't have a downside. And like all technology and scientific advancements, we learn from our mistakes and make things better and safer. The burning of fossil fuels has a much larger and negative impact on a global scale than Fukushima ever will. The pH of all of the world's oceans is turning more acidic from the increased CO2 in the atmosphere. Worldwide we are told to limit our intake of certain fish due to mercury contamination from burning coal - but not from radiation from Fukushima.

Nuclear power does neither. Perhaps it is (or could become) a safer source of energy than what we use now. It would be a shame to abandon the potential for safer energy sources by listening to the alarmists and proclaiming here on PalmTalk in the immediate aftermath that, "Reindeer meat in Finland has tested positive for radioactive isotopes, a large radiation cloud is over the East Coast of Australia and thyroid cancer has increased in America"

[Dypsisdean]

DoomsDave, on 23 Sept 2013 - 10:05, said:

Laugh all you want, but nuke power for mass generation isn't feasible in the long run. Forget for a moment about the accidents waiting to happen with their cooling systems. What are we going to do with all the waste? It has a half-life of 10,000 years.

Dave - have you ever heard of scientific advances? They have achieved many things once thought to be infeasible.

[DoomsDave]

DoomsDave, on 23 Sept 2013 - 10:05, said:

Laugh all you want, but nuke power for mass generation isn't feasible in the long run. Forget for a moment about the accidents waiting to happen with their cooling systems. What are we going to do with all the waste? It has a half-life of 10,000 years.

Dave - have you ever heard of scientific advances? They have achieved many things once thought to be infeasible.

So, what can be done to make the waste harmless? Or at least not have to store it for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

So far as now known, nothing.

If you know, better share!

[Dypsisdean]

DoomsDave, on 23 Sept 2013 - 10:05, said:

Laugh all you want, but nuke power for mass generation isn't feasible in the long run. Forget for a moment about the accidents waiting to happen with their cooling systems. What are we going to do with all the waste? It has a half-life of 10,000 years.

Dave - have you ever heard of scientific advances? They have achieved many things once thought to be infeasible.

So, what can be done to make the waste harmless? Or at least not have to store it for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

So far as now known, nothing.

If you know, better share!

Quote from a 14th century forum...

So, what can be done to cure this Black Plague? Or at least to prevent it from killing us for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

So far as now known, nothing.

If you know, better share!

[DoomsDave]

Well, we now have drug-resistant diseases which are incurable, like some strains of TB.

And, you didn't really answer the question, which was: how can nuclear waste be made disposable without having to entomb it? A comment from a long-dead scholar who cannot have a clue does not answer the question.

[Dypsisdean]

Well, we now have drug-resistant diseases which are incurable, like some strains of TB.

And, you didn't really answer the question, which was: how can nuclear waste be made disposable without having to entomb it? A comment from a long-dead scholar who cannot have a clue does not answer the question.

Come on Dave - do I really have to help you with this??? Drug resistant TB only means it is resistant to the drugs we have now. What happened when penicillin was the only antibiotic and a disease became resistant?

But to answer your question - how could someone have explained to Columbus how it was possible to attach a few tiny boxes to his ships and everyone around the world could watch his entire voyage at their leisure in high definition color from the comfort of their sofa on a reality show?

You want me to explain technology to you that does not yet exist?

But just a couple of possibilities:

- a genetically modified bacteria that consumes radioactive waste

- a technology (new kind of reactor) that can use spent fuel to create even more electricity, converting it to a benign element or one with much shorter half-life.

But if nuclear waste is such a concern, are you equally concerned about the waste from x-ray machines, cancer treatments, and radioactive diagnostic methods? Maybe we should stop using radiation altogether because it is inherently dangerous - like fire.

Don't you understand that there are still advances in technology to be made that we may not yet begin to imagine - ways to make it safer. In the grand scheme of things, nuclear physics is still a fledgling science.

[Hammer]

Aaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!! We're all gonna die!!!!

[redant]

Aaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!! We're all gonna die!!!!

Truest statement ever made on palmtalk!

[Stevetoad]

Nuclear energy is still the most safe, clean and efficient way to make electricity. You ever drive through a wind or solar farm? Those things are disgustingly ugly and ruin miles of natural habitat. One day we might even find a beneficial use for nuclear waste. Not to mention that if you totaled all the nuclear waste ever produced world wide it would only fill a football (American football) field 7 meters high. That is a tiny amount for 40 years of waste.

[Kim]

While I don't advocate burying one's head in the sand, if you are really concerned about extending your life, follow these three simple rules:

1) Don't smoke (anything)

2) Wear a seatbelt every time you are in a moving vehicle

3) Don't ride motorcycles

Follow those easy steps, and you may live long enough to find out if anyone in California will ever be affected by the radiation leaks at Fukushima.

[Stevetoad]

While I don't advocate burying one's head in the sand, if you are really concerned about extending your life, follow these three simple rules:

1) Don't smoke (anything)

2) Wear a seatbelt every time you are in a moving vehicle

3) Don't ride motorcycles

Follow those easy steps, and you may live long enough to find out if anyone in California will ever be affected by the radiation leaks at Fukushima.

What about smoking fish and pork???

[Kim]

...as long as you don't inhale...

[Hammer]

While I don't advocate burying one's head in the sand, if you are really concerned about extending your life, follow these three simple rules:

1) Don't smoke (anything)

2) Wear a seatbelt every time you are in a moving vehicle

3) Don't ride motorcycles

Follow those easy steps, and you may live long enough to find out if anyone in California will ever be affected by the radiation leaks at Fukushima.

If I may add two additional things? Eat reasonably healthy and exercise. I know, it's not supposed to be an exhaustive list.

[palmmermaid]

I would expound on Hammer's reply just a little - Eat food. Mostly plants. Not too much.

[Funkthulhu]

While I don't advocate burying one's head in the sand, if you are really concerned about extending your life, follow these three simple rules:

1) Don't smoke (anything)

2) Wear a seatbelt every time you are in a moving vehicle

3) Don't ride motorcycles

Follow those easy steps, and you may live long enough to find out if anyone in California will ever be affected by the radiation leaks at Fukushima.

What about smoking fish and pork???

Have you ever tried to light a salmon? They're impossible to smoke!

[paulgila]

[DoomsDave]

Now is the time for the sacred word:

BLEAH!

[Mandrew968]

As Paul said - always question the source of "news" story. In addition, I have never found that highly technical and scientifically complex subject matter such as this always suffer severely when dragged through the standard media. And virtually everyone of these "news" outlets have a predisposed bias that influences the reporting. And much of the hyper-negative and alarmist reporting are from sources that oppose nuclear power. And people who read them come away with statements like Andrew's - "I told my brother I am concerned for him living in Southern California as they get japan's winds"<br /><br />I have not yet read any credible evidence that people in SoCal have been in any danger.<br /><br />Energy for modern man has to come from somewhere. There isn't a method of creating it that doesn't have a downside. And like all technology and scientific advancements, we learn from our mistakes and make things better and safer. The burning of fossil fuels has a much larger and negative impact on a global scale than Fukushima ever will. The pH of all of the world's oceans is turning more acidic from the increased CO2 in the atmosphere. Worldwide we are told to limit our intake of certain fish due to mercury contamination from burning coal - but not from radiation from Fukushima.<br /><br />Nuclear power does neither. Perhaps it is (or could become) a safer source of energy than what we use now. It would be a shame to abandon the potential for safer energy sources by listening to the alarmists and proclaiming here on PalmTalk in the immediate aftermath that, "Reindeer meat in Finland has tested positive for radioactive isotopes, a large radiation cloud is over the East Coast of Australia and thyroid cancer has increased in America"

Dean, you are cheating!! You can't erase a topic and then pull words from it to make a point--no one else can do that! not fair; play by the rules... in any event, you agree with me that this is not good(Japan's position), there is cover-up going on, and this is the worst Nuclear disaster the world has ever seen. If you don't agree with that, then let's talk about that--after all, YOU are the one who pulled the plug on my last thread--be consistant

[Mandrew968]

Well, we now have drug-resistant diseases which are incurable, like some strains of TB.

And, you didn't really answer the question, which was: how can nuclear waste be made disposable without having to entomb it? A comment from a long-dead scholar who cannot have a clue does not answer the question.

Come on Dave - do I really have to help you with this??? Drug resistant TB only means it is resistant to the drugs we have now. What happened when penicillin was the only antibiotic and a disease became resistant?

But to answer your question - how could someone have explained to Columbus how it was possible to attach a few tiny boxes to his ships and everyone around the world could watch his entire voyage at their leisure in high definition color from the comfort of their sofa on a reality show?

You want me to explain technology to you that does not yet exist?

But just a couple of possibilities:

- a genetically modified bacteria that consumes radioactive waste

- a technology (new kind of reactor) that can use spent fuel to create even more electricity, converting it to a benign element or one with much shorter half-life.

But if nuclear waste is such a concern, are you equally concerned about the waste from x-ray machines, cancer treatments, and radioactive diagnostic methods? Maybe we should stop using radiation altogether because it is inherently dangerous - like fire.

Don't you understand that there are still advances in technology to be made that we may not yet begin to imagine - ways to make it safer. In the grand scheme of things, nuclear physics is still a fledgling science.

Dean, you are coming off as arrogant--Dave just wanted you to admit that there is no technology at present to get Japan out of the mess they are in.

[Mandrew968]

Everyone, despite what you might think about a website or information I have posted GO ONLINE AND SEARCH FOR YOURSELF--I believe you will find some scary information on Japan's current state of affairs. I implore you to look. If you find something worth noting, please post it on this thread for us all to see.

I keep hearing that it's ok for the plant to be leaking. Kim says don't smoke and you will be alright--how come no one is offended by the way Japan is handling this?! The ocean is not theirs to polute! Of the entire world, Japan probably fishes more than any other country and for them to have this problem, cover it up with band aids and not ask for global help is horrible.

Kim do you have any kids??? I do and I think it is not right for Japan to poison the ocean even a little! I consider myself a steward of this Earth and would like to leave it in a better state than when I was handed it. Steve--you have kids so you should be taking a stand as well, and not the whole "the Ocean can take it because it has so many gallons"--that's not fair to your kid's future.

Who is Japan to ruin the oceans even a little bit?!

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-09-06/world/41812809_1_fukushima-daiichi-reactor-buildings-toxic-water

[Mandrew968]

Here is what seems to be a pretty comprehensive look at what is going on: http://www.cbsnews.com/2718-202_162-1082/disaster-in-japan/

[bgl]

"......and this is the worst Nuclear disaster the world has ever seen...."

This one pales in comparison with the worst nuclear disasters the world has ever experienced. And that's a serious understatement. The nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki left countless dead and injured, and with serious health issues for future generations as well. Japan, as the only country at the receiving end of a nuclear attack, is probably more conscious of these issues than any other country.

[yachtingone]

While I don't advocate burying one's head in the sand, if you are really concerned about extending your life, follow these three simple rules:

1) Don't smoke (anything)

2) Wear a seatbelt every time you are in a moving vehicle

3) Don't ride motorcycles

Follow those easy steps, and you may live long enough to find out if anyone in California will ever be affected by the radiation leaks at Fukushima.

Rule #3, I guess I am dead meat!

Randy

[Mandrew968]

"......and this is the worst Nuclear disaster the world has ever seen...."

This one pales in comparison with the worst nuclear disasters the world has ever experienced. And that's a serious understatement. The nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki left countless dead and injured, and with serious health issues for future generations as well. Japan, as the only country at the receiving end of a nuclear attack, is probably more conscious of these issues than any other country.

Yes, Bo. As far as Life lost, you are correct. However, there are many ways to look at the overall impact of such disasters--human lives is just one aspect. Egocentrically, it seems the most important aspect to consider, but I try not to be so egocentric.

[bgl]

Andrew,

You are correct. There are more ways than one to look at this, and number of dead is only one way. But it's probably the number one issue for those who are affected. And let's not forget, the United States, as well as France and Great Britain, were guilty of deliberately destroying the lives and livelihoods of people in the Pacific for about 50 years without actually directly killing them. They just poisoned their environment with hundreds of nuclear tests.

Bo-Göran