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trioderob

proper placement of palms in a home landscape.....................

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doranakandawatta

I think Trioderob and Axel are one and the same dude

If so, this is the problem of virtual web forum where people are not true!

I hope you'r wrong but who knows?

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paulgila

I don't think so. :rolleyes:

we have had that problem before,though, & the mod. was onto the perp before too long.

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Jastin

I don't think so. :rolleyes:

we have had that problem before,though, & the mod. was onto the perp before too long.

The perp? Haha. Too much law and order

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trioderob

I think Trioderob and Axel are one and the same dude

.............................. :floor:

we are not the same Dude bro

classic post

"oh the humanity"

Edited by trioderob

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Bags

The thing is almost every person on this forum does not follow the "rules" laid out here, so to say those rules are some kind of fact on a forum of plant collectors is just odd. I would say that the overwhelming majority of people do not care about their yard. They just want something clean, nice and easy. With that Rob's yard idea works and works for resale as well. For the average person Rob is probably spot on. For a plant collector it is just not a reality. Rob I offended you earlier, I apologize, lets see your yard and you can offer me insight into my yard as well. You can see I have no diagonal corners and It looks like a mass of plants from the street. Once you get past the front planter it opens up to a decent size lawn. The walkway is offset so you can not see the front door, but the path is an easy transition to the front door. I tried to create the walkway so it followed somewhat of a natural path.

IMG_1960_zps60c77665.jpg

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redant

The thing is almost every person on this forum does not follow the "rules" laid out here, so to say those rules are some kind of fact on a forum of plant collectors is just odd. I would say that the overwhelming majority of people do not care about their yard. They just want something clean, nice and easy. With that Rob's yard idea works and works for resale as well. For the average person Rob is probably spot on. For a plant collector it is just not a reality. Rob I offended you earlier, I apologize, lets see your yard and you can offer me insight into my yard as well. You can see I have no diagonal corners and It looks like a mass of plants from the street. Once you get past the front planter it opens up to a decent size lawn. The walkway is offset so you can not see the front door, but the path is an easy transition to the front door. I tried to create the walkway so it followed somewhat of a natural path.

IMG_1960_zps60c77665.jpg

Yuck, get rid of all that stuff and plant some grass will ya!.

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trioderob

right now its not bad.

the problem is that in 5 years it will over dominate the property.

let me be specific so people don't assume I am just an arse.

you have planted what i believe is a aloe Hercules which will triple in size and dominate the center of your property right at the curb.

you have planted a bizze in a perfect location and it will get 30x larger than it is in the photo.

that would be fine if it was not in competition with the other palms

in other words because everything it is in the center of the front yard I believe it will eventually become overwhelming.

all of this is offset by limitations of your yard dimensions of course.

i highly recommend that you take a look at this book -she is an expert.

it will give you ideas how to balance things out

81SEauUo1kL._SL1500_.jpg

Edited by trioderob

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Bags

The aloe actually makes me nervous as does the Bizzy. I know they are going to get huge. I am not afraid to take the chainsaw to palms and have cut down many already. The plants dominating my house is not my concern, as my yard means so much more to me than my house, my main concern is not making my yard feel cluttered and claustrophobic. I had said it in another thread, but I try and not plant bushy plants that block the view of other plants. Most stuff is above or below eye level. I have the book you posted. Great book.

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Bags

I think Pauleen's Dypsis decipiens and ceroxylon had to break a few rules on their way to blowing peoples minds.

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Jeff Searle

Still waiting on the pic of your front of house. Leadership by example.

I agree but I think there is no hope on this thread, and since many posts, no palm- talk... only talk, talk, talk.... :asleep: and no palm anymore! :badday:

I posted my bad example front yard in this thread :)

Dang you Len,

Did you post a pic of my house? I must look back........

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LJG

Still waiting on the pic of your front of house. Leadership by example.

I agree but I think there is no hope on this thread, and since many posts, no palm- talk... only talk, talk, talk.... :asleep: and no palm anymore! :badday:

I posted my bad example front yard in this thread :)

Dang you Len,

Did you post a pic of my house? I must look back........

I should have used your front yard. Cause from the gate it looks like you must live in a tree :)

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SanDimas

Rob

I have to applaud you for this great thread you started no matter what others opinions or preferences may be.

Imagine were on page 4 already and the thread was just recently started.

I think it really boils down to...its my house, I pay rent and mortgage on it

and I really don't care what anyone thinks about it....

I LIKE IT.

Being on this thread is like going to a bar yet youre enrolled in Alcoholics Anonymous.

I keep telling myself...this is the last palm Im going to plant. Ya BASTA.....

BUT I keep buying one last palm after another.

When does it stop? How do we stop? When is enough is enough to plant on your yard?

Im hoping Mr Velez and other Yoda Masters can chime in on this.....PLEASE.

CHEERS everyone. B)

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Jastin

Aaron- To me, your place looks and is inviting. Yes, there are things that are going to get in the way and may look cluttered when mature but if we all followed the "plant thinking of mature size" with enough spacing for the mature crown to not touch anything else we would only have a few palms. And it wouldnt look as filled in for a longer period of time.

I think gardens that have design, have negative space, and have color like Aarons is very unique. I walk through the typical HOA neighborhoods where everything looks the same and I dont understand why designers/buyers like that layout. Another thing to think about is that most of us have "growing pains" and have to tie/cut back things off the pathway until we can walk under it. Next year my paths should open up and become more inviting.

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Hammer

I tend to be from Rob's school of thought. I like the open front yard with palms on the corners like arms wide open inviting you to approach. I also appreciate having fewer palms in the front.

On the otherhand, I am able to appreciate what Bags and Jastin have done with their front yards. They've created a screening of palms from the street. But once inside that screen there is some nice open space.

Go nuts in the back yard. The front yard is the bait that pulls you in. The back yard sets the hook. That's where all the twists and turns and details are hidden and calling out to be discovered. Reference Paulgila's back yard as a great example.

I also like the point made ealier in the thread about planting multiples of the same species in small groups. Or individual specimen plants (bizzies) that are single focal points. Too many various individual palms crammed together can look cluttered.

At the end of the day, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. This beholder prefers a little more design and planning.

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trioderob

g06905art05b.jpgg06905art05a.jpg

Framing the house

g06905art04.jpgFigure 4

By placing progressively smaller plants near the door, you frame the house and focus attention on the entryway.

g06905art03.jpg

Figure 3

Symmetrical, formal balance depends on mirror images (top). Asymmetrical
balance juxtaposes elements with different weights in a way that
"feels" right (middle).

Get it wrong and the elements appear out of balance (bottom).

(this is some great stuff I just posted here - think it aint ?)

Edited by trioderob

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pogobob

Most of us succumb to our compulsive collector gene and end up with "Palm Explosion" disorder :greenthumb:

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pogobob

The only cure for "Palm Explosion" disorder, is a wife with a machete, or in my case, a wife with a chainsaw

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Hammer

The only cure for "Palm Explosion" disorder, is a wife with a machete, or in my case, a wife with a chainsaw

I think maybe my wife is related to yours!! :)

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Jastin

The only cure for "Palm Explosion" disorder, is a wife with a machete, or in my case, a wife with a chainsaw

I think maybe my wife is related to yours!! :)

Nothin like a Phoenix needle under the nail to cure the wife's "I'm gonna get you back" attitude :)

The above pictures would be good for a basic landscape design class - not a collector

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Jastin

I agree with balance, texture, flow, contrast, negative and positive space, etc. The pictures are a general rule of thumb for anyone learning about the basics in design. That concept isn't the only concept out there and the only one we should follow.

Trioderob- by you saying "I prefer a little more design and planning" are you meaning that you prefer the above way that you described to design? I can think of many great gardens that don't always follow these rules.

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trioderob

well first there must be an agreement that when it comes to design be it landscape, art, music or even palms,

there are some people who have a special talent and other who dont. this is something that can developed but we all know at some basic level that not everyone is going to be a recognized master. it comes down to having an eye and mind that can make a expert judgement. whats interesting about this is that for some reason if I introduced you to a young man who was extremely tall and strong looking you would not have a problem excepting that he was a better basketball player than you - on the other hand if i told you he was smarter than you very few would easily except this. same thing goes with design - some folks have an expert eye.

many things can be learned from these type people. some here may be that type of person.

so before you can expand from the rules you need to know what the rules are

1) why are you breaking the rules ?

2) what have you done design wise thats special ?

3) its it really special ?

of course all of this goes out the window if you just dont give a rats arse and just want to plant palms

it only means something if you care

here is an example of one of the best - both are his :

Hundertwasser.jpg


Hundertwasser-Geb%C3%A4ude,_Essen.jpg

Edited by trioderob

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trioderob

so yes - design your own garden and use your own rules

just use expert judgement - like these Dudes from Cali did when they designed home interiors

craftsman-dining-room.jpg

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Hammer

so yes - design your own garden and use your own rules

just use expert judgement - like these Dudes from Cali did when they designed home interiors

craftsman-dining-room.jpg

Love the old craftsman design. Just love it.

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LJG

You are forgetting one key variable - taste.

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sonoranfans

I have found that simple asymmetric or symmetric landscape designs look boring. To me the designs in post 135 are typical of landscaping in every cookie cutter development out there. Its like the stepford landscapers association, all of one mind. These are meant to accentuate the house, not to feature a garden or integrate a house into a garden. Garden art does not have the house as the centerpiece, but part of the flow. And art changes over time as new creative approaches are developed. At one time impressionist works of art were considered junk and not permitted in la Louvre, and modern art had a rough road in the early days. To me the art of landscaping has a lot to do with departure from the common or ordinary and it includes detail that stimulates and captures the attention of a more sophisticated audience but goes right over the head of the uninformed. Commercial landscaping (like pop music) needs to appeal to but not overwhelm the common homeowner(listener) and by doing so will likely lose the interest of the more sophisticated gardener. This doesn't mean that basic concepts aren't useful, but it does mean that the most interesting "designs" to me are NOT the commercial ones for the masses. I prefer the approach where my view out from the house takes preference to that of neighbors of visitors looking in. I do laugh though when I see someone putting a bizzy right in front of the front door, this is a mistake on many levels....

I do agree that these are good concepts and rules if you want to sell your house..... but I have no intention of doing that with all the work I have put in my garden.

I actually find the house and landscaping in post 141 hard on the eyes..... it looks in poor taste with little imagination outside the houses gaudy coloring, sloping grounds surrounding it, and interestingly shaped windows.... the yellow, gold, and red seem discordant with the subtle green landscape.

Edited by sonoranfans
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_Keith

Early draft 2. I am still working my way on the structure of this.

Intention of the Garden - Time, Style, Symmetry, Contrast, Uniqueness, Harmony/Healing

Constraints of the Site – Water, Light, Surroundings, what you can change, and what you must adapt to

Site –Structures, Framing, Soil macro

Structures, Functional Areas

Macro level - Scale, Mass, Shape

Plant Selection

Native plant considerations

Soil Preparation at the Macro Level - Site wide

Plant installation

Care – Keeping them alive

Watering

Fertilization

Insecticides

Herbicides

Wildlife

Sustainability

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Jim in Los Altos

well first there must be an agreement that when it comes to design be it landscape, art, music or even palms,

there are some people who have a special talent and other who dont. this is something that can developed but we all know at some basic level that not everyone is going to be a recognized master. it comes down to having an eye and mind that can make a expert judgement. whats interesting about this is that for some reason if I introduced you to a young man who was extremely tall and strong looking you would not have a problem excepting that he was a better basketball player than you - on the other hand if i told you he was smarter than you very few would easily except this. same thing goes with design - some folks have an expert eye.

many things can be learned from these type people. some here may be that type of person.

so before you can expand from the rules you need to know what the rules are

1) why are you breaking the rules ?

2) what have you done design wise thats special ?

3) its it really special ?

of course all of this goes out the window if you just dont give a rats arse and just want to plant palms

it only means something if you care

here is an example of one of the best - both are his :

Hundertwasser.jpg

Hundertwasser-Geb%C3%A4ude,_Essen.jpg

well first there must be an agreement that when it comes to design be it landscape, art, music or even palms,

there are some people who have a special talent and other who dont. this is something that can developed but we all know at some basic level that not everyone is going to be a recognized master. it comes down to having an eye and mind that can make a expert judgement. whats interesting about this is that for some reason if I introduced you to a young man who was extremely tall and strong looking you would not have a problem excepting that he was a better basketball player than you - on the other hand if i told you he was smarter than you very few would easily except this. same thing goes with design - some folks have an expert eye.

many things can be learned from these type people. some here may be that type of person.

so before you can expand from the rules you need to know what the rules are

1) why are you breaking the rules ?

2) what have you done design wise thats special ?

3) its it really special ?

of course all of this goes out the window if you just dont give a rats arse and just want to plant palms

it only means something if you care

here is an example of one of the best - both are his :

Hundertwasser.jpg

Hundertwasser-Geb%C3%A4ude,_Essen.jpg

OMG, this is ghastly! I can't see anything of good taste or design on this property. It's scary bad.

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Jastin

I have found that simple asymmetric or symmetric landscape designs look boring. To me the designs in post 135 are typical of landscaping in every cookie cutter development out there. Its like the stepford landscapers association, all of one mind. These are meant to accentuate the house, not to feature a garden or integrate a house into a garden. Garden art does not have the house as the centerpiece, but part of the flow. And art changes over time as new creative approaches are developed. At one time impressionist works of art were considered junk and not permitted in la Louvre, and modern art had a rough road in the early days. To me the art of landscaping has a lot to do with departure from the common or ordinary and it includes detail that stimulates and captures the attention of a more sophisticated audience but goes right over the head of the uninformed. Commercial landscaping (like pop music) needs to appeal to but not overwhelm the common homeowner(listener) and by doing so will likely lose the interest of the more sophisticated gardener. This doesn't mean that basic concepts aren't useful, but it does mean that the most interesting "designs" to me are NOT the commercial ones for the masses. I prefer the approach where my view out from the house takes preference to that of neighbors of visitors looking in. I do laugh though when I see someone putting a bizzy right in front of the front door, this is a mistake on many levels....

I do agree that these are good concepts and rules if you want to sell your house..... but I have no intention of doing that with all the work I have put in my garden.

I actually find the house and landscaping in post 141 hard on the eyes..... it looks in poor taste with little imagination outside the houses gaudy coloring, sloping grounds surrounding it, and interestingly shaped windows.... the yellow, gold, and red seem discordant with the subtle green landscape.

Exactly, well said!

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Jastin

Please tell me your just picking ugly house, ugly design, and ugly landscape just to be funny. This is so bad in so many ways. I would take the cartoon drawing over this crapmanship. If you think this is a master designer in home and landscape then that relieves me because now I know your basis on a good designer! Haha.

I would love to post my front yard design up so everyone could give me their constructive criticitism. I'm by no means saying that I am a master designer at all-or even good, but I believe I have a good eye for what's right and wrong, and I am open minded to other options and ideas as I will be a student in this my whole life(always learning)and then like Len said, people have their own taste.

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Jim in Los Altos

I have found that simple asymmetric or symmetric landscape designs look boring. To me the designs in post 135 are typical of landscaping in every cookie cutter development out there. Its like the stepford landscapers association, all of one mind. These are meant to accentuate the house, not to feature a garden or integrate a house into a garden. Garden art does not have the house as the centerpiece, but part of the flow. And art changes over time as new creative approaches are developed. At one time impressionist works of art were considered junk and not permitted in la Louvre, and modern art had a rough road in the early days. To me the art of landscaping has a lot to do with departure from the common or ordinary and it includes detail that stimulates and captures the attention of a more sophisticated audience but goes right over the head of the uninformed. Commercial landscaping (like pop music) needs to appeal to but not overwhelm the common homeowner(listener) and by doing so will likely lose the interest of the more sophisticated gardener. This doesn't mean that basic concepts aren't useful, but it does mean that the most interesting "designs" to me are NOT the commercial ones for the masses. I prefer the approach where my view out from the house takes preference to that of neighbors of visitors looking in. I do laugh though when I see someone putting a bizzy right in front of the front door, this is a mistake on many levels....

I do agree that these are good concepts and rules if you want to sell your house..... but I have no intention of doing that with all the work I have put in my garden.

I actually find the house and landscaping in post 141 hard on the eyes..... it looks in poor taste with little imagination outside the houses gaudy coloring, sloping grounds surrounding it, and interestingly shaped windows.... the yellow, gold, and red seem discordant with the subtle green landscape.

Exactly, well said!

Me too. I completely agree and as a landscape architect I rarely follow the "rules" because very few of my clients want average "blend in with the neighborhood" landscapes. It's important to keep in mind balance, harmony, and a sense of flow in a garden. Lots of gardens are full of one of these and one of those throughout and it can be chaotic to the eye and even disturbing to be near. You need a theme and repeat of given species of plants. This applies to a heavily planted tropical style garden as well as a xeroscaped yard or any style for that matter. Negative spaces such as lawns, pathing, patios, etc. are important in order to be able to enjoy the different aspects of the garden. My own house is very heavily planted but the front entry is visible from the street which I find important but you still come "into" the garden as you approach the front door.

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Shon

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I get compliments on my yard all the time but I also get plenty of turned up noses. I like the crowded look and love many gardens on this forum that follow this. Bags,Pauls Len's Newcal's Daryl's and Wal's first garden are some my personal faves. I also like other ones that aren't crowded but would not want that for my place. Rob has posted photos of his yard before and from those photos I don't remember him adhering to any landscape design.

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Brahea Axel

Examples of good looking closely spaced palms:

pr76583.jpg

Rhopalostylis_sapida1%20(Medium).JPG

Greg%27s%20pool%20(Large).JPG

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Jim in Los Altos

Axel, Those are great examples. Beauty in numbers.

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Jastin

Great examples Axel. Where is that amazing picture of the pool from?

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Brahea Axel

Great examples Axel. Where is that amazing picture of the pool from?

It was featured in Sunset magazine long, long time ago, Phil has a picture of it on his Junglemusic website, it's in Encinitas.

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Hammer

Great examples Axel. Where is that amazing picture of the pool from?

It was featured in Sunset magazine long, long time ago, Phil has a picture of it on his Junglemusic website, it's in Encinitas.

Sunset's Western Design book a couple years ago also had some shots of it. I believe it indexed to the designer who designed it. I could tell you for sure but I loaned that book out. You can guess how that worked out for me.

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LJG

Great examples Axel. Where is that amazing picture of the pool from?

It was featured in Sunset magazine long, long time ago, Phil has a picture of it on his Junglemusic website, it's in Encinitas.

Sunset's Western Design book a couple years ago also had some shots of it. I believe it indexed to the designer who designed it. I could tell you for sure but I loaned that book out. You can guess how that worked out for me.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/33745-pssc-tours-asbaghouer-gardens/?hl=asbagh

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