Jump to content
trioderob

transplanting a large adult fruiting coconut palm to California ?

Recommended Posts

Cedric

Wow Walts coconut is looking good. Cant some dedidcated scientist put the anti freeze gene from that incredible frog into a palm surely not that difficult ha!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tropicdoc

You know..... once we get cold hardy coconut palms, they will cease to be the universal sign of the tropics and we won't want one anymore. <_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Walt

The below photo shows my small coconut palm in January of 2012 after some frosts and freezes. My coconut palm wasn't hurt during the winter of 2012-2013, at least for the most part. As what happens with most tropical species of palms, they do develop potassium deficiency during the winter months when soil temperatures cool down. My coconut palm developed K deficiency on the bottomost (oldest) four or five fronds (to a lesser extent the younger the fronds were), but once soil temperatures warmed up no further K deficiencies developed.

Cocosnucifera1-30-12_zpsdfa3b15f.jpg

Above photo: My small coconut palm after some frosts and freezes. The fronds were 95% fried but the trunk and meristem weren't hurt because I used heating cables and insulation to wrap the trunk with. As such, new fronds weren't stunted, as you can see from my previous photos and video.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trioderob

anyone find out for a fact that it has been tried in the last 20 years ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moose

:floor:

After Triodes first call, that's what Mike will do on subsequent calls.. with his phone "Letzring".. nothing? to soon..? :rolleyes:

:floor:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moose

Its not about what it gets, but what it does not get...HEAT!

... and humidity! When our relative humidity drops to 40%, our palms and plants really suffer. How often is the California humidity above 50%?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
_Keith

anyone find out for a fact that it has been tried in the last 20 years ?

I think this is the answer we are all waiting for. I know for sure Ken would be up for the delivery, perhaps with a surcharge to insure it arrived with its nuts intact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim in Los Altos

Its not about what it gets, but what it does not get...HEAT!

... and humidity! When our relative humidity drops to 40%, our palms and plants really suffer. How often is the California humidity above 50%?

This is why I will never again buy a palm from Florida. They are wimps when they get out into our dry air and are hard to acclimate. The same species of palms grown in CA are low humidity "hardened off" and ready to go and do well. I'm not saying that about coconuts though but there were some growing near the Salton Sea in inland SoCal desert that looked quite good until the property was sold and the new owners didn't water them. Talk about low humidities, sometimes in the single digits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trioderob

with a surcharge to insure it arrived with its nuts intact

:bemused:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brian Bruning

Coconuts are grown in the Sonoran Desert in Mexico and I'm told a few are around Palm Springs CA.  I'll try one. 

In the 1920s they did bring up mature coconut trunks from Mexico to plant at various estates in southern CA but they all died.  I think the Newport Beach coconut survived as it is in sandy somewhat saline soil, western exposure, right next to the beach area and is surrounded on three sides by asphalt and the fourth is a building.  It has the perfect conditions so it grew despite the owner being oblivious to what it might need. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JEFF IN MODESTO

One thing we are certain , the warmer  parts of SoCal are historically, bordering "right on the edge " of being warm enough to grow coconuts.

just a tiny push... A smidge warmer winters would push coastal SoCal into the coconut zone.

Now scientists claim that climate change will be much more than a "smidge" ...it will be several degrees warmer over the next decades and they say they have proof!

lol

 Nature has a way of making fools out of scientists.

So if the climate changers predictions are correct , coconuts will be the norm along SoCal coast.

If we don't see beaches lined with coconuts in SoCal in the up coming climate change years....Either people were too lazy to plant them or genius scientists were flat out wrong about the change .

 

imo

 

 

jeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cluster

Hm it will be easier with the warming, but apparently the super low freeze (or very low highs/mean temperature) that comes every 10-20 years or cold extremes overall will still be normal and that might kill many of them without the proper protection be it desert or coastal. If they are willing to protect them, it might work out.

Edited by Cluster
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JEFF IN MODESTO

Based on the data I read, there should be no problem to grow in the warming climate.

the Newport coco made it for 30 years .

 scientists tell us that climate warming is guarenteed . Though I haven't seen many investing in the ca copra industry! Lol

That will put SoCal over the hump ( if you believe the y2ker scientists.)

So based on what I read , plant coconuts a bit away from the shore since most of the current beaches will be flooded very soon.

i am excited to get the warmer temps and thus the coconut lined California beaches.

i just wonder how far north they will grow. Based on the "facts"Pismo beach should be able to grow cocos about 2025.

if that turns out to be wrong, remember the names of the scientists   .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zeeth

Looks like Pismo beach is 9b-10a from what I'm reading, and coconuts need an 11a or 11b zone in cool climates like coastal California. What have you read that claims 10+ degrees of warming will happen in the next 10 years? Most models put the average global temperature rising by about 4 degrees by the year 2100, with the majority of that happening at the poles. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JEFF IN MODESTO

Pismo is zone 10a along the coast,

where does it say 10 degrees in ten years?

The article  I have read was a rise of 5c over the next couple decades.

then like all good scientists he clearified by saying " your mileage may vary!

to be considered legit a scientist cannot leave doubt.

so if science says we will get dramatic climate increase , who am I to argue ?

i see it as an opertunity to make money based on their wisdom.

so who is with me? 

If you believe in dramatic climate change , then let's invest in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zeeth

10 degrees increase in averages would be needed to bring the 10a to 11a, which is the bare minimum for coconut survival in a Mediterranean type climate. I would like to see the article that you're mentioning though, as 5 C in the next few decades seems a lot higher than any data I've ever read. Even the most extreme predictions call for 8oF of warming by 2100, and this one assumes that the use fossil fuels continues to accelerate at it's current rate. 

 

Either way, I think the issue is that you're either misinterpreting or misrepresenting the data. The number of degrees of warming is worldwide. It's a much different thing to say that a specific area will rise by X degrees, and this isn't something that anyone is doing. Also, like I said before, most of the warming is said to occur at the poles anyway. There are a lot of ocean currents that modify land temperature of coastal cities, and it's difficult to say what will happen to those currents if the temperature and salinity change. The gulf stream is one entity that a lot of people worry about in the event of a large amount of global warming, because the current stream relies on the temperature stratification between the warm waters of the tropics and the cold waters of the arctic. I don't know much about how the currents off of California affect your temperatures though, so it could go either way. 

I think all of this is outside of the realm of what should be discussed on Palmtalk though. The fact that we disagree on an issue like this shouldn't affect our ability to talk about palms and I think the mod might not like a thread on the main forum devolving into an argument about global warming. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JEFF IN MODESTO

You are splitting hairs, we are palm nuts here, if you are looking to discuss political issues, there are plenty of boards elsewhere. 

 

. I am talking about Coconut growing conditions. This is palm talk and last I heard coconut is a palm. Climate is the growing condition. The politics involved ... I could care less about.... So lets not discuss that issue. PALMS are the issue.

Whether the new  PCCCB.... " Post climate change coconut belt "  begins or ends in San Francisco , Pismo, or Santa Barbara,  isn't that important.

  If you believe in climate change is, it will be undeniable that  be able  able to grow lots more stuff based on predicted increases.

. If we cant,  the " science " is as much of a scientific lie as blood letting.

We know that right now...coastal socal is just a tiny bit to cool to regularly grow coconuts.

Stands to reason that a nudge in warmer temps.... such as what climate change people are claiming, will make coastal SoCal go from "marginal" to "better than marginal" coconut growing weather.

Same goes for Florida. Areas where cocos struggle now should, with a degree or two increase warmer weather allow cocos growing further north.

I truly believe that if we don't see any movement. .... Well, remember Y2k?.

I don't think the scientists that wrote realize how many of us operate our gardens on a margin. A couple degrees cooler than normal weather and our palms suffer. A couple degrees above the normal ( climate warming ) and they are happy.  

Of course there are other things to consider, but to me... a warmer winter.... a couple of degrees warmer I wont complain.

Edited by JEFF IN MODESTO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rprimbs

I'm looking forward to the coconut palms, and the mangosteen and durian trees!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JEFF IN MODESTO

Me too !

A couple of warm winters wont help me though.

I have a Jakfruit tree, does that count?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John Case

Keith, the USDA zones have nothing to do with he average temps, just the mean low temps. If the lows move up 56-10 degrees, it means nothing to the average temps. From my perspective, I would love a few degrees higher temps in Jan or Feb; that would make all of the difference as to what I could plant with confidence here in my 9b climate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ben in Norcal

Climate change isn't something one can "believe" or "not believe." It's just a fact and already happened - it's just a matter of how much more will happen.  Only the argued causes of it are politicized, and I agree that discussion has no place on this board!

I'd love ultimate lows to be just a few degrees higher, just like John.  I'm not sure about the rest of what comes with that though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John Case

Climate change isn't something one can "believe" or "not believe." It's just a fact and already happened - it's just a matter of how much more will happen.  Only the argued causes of it are politicized, and I agree that discussion has no place on this board!

I'd love ultimate lows to be just a few degrees higher, just like John.  I'm not sure about the rest of what comes with that though!

Outside of a week or 2 each summer for the past few years, we have had some pretty mild summers, as well as mild winters. It appears to me that much of the 'warming' is occurring in the urban heat islands, rather than as a general increase in temps everywhere.

I am being selfish, of course, but more od the same for the 20 years would be OK with me! I'll let the other play with their coconuts, but there would be so many things that both of us could attempt!

I moved here from SoCal in 1982 to get away from the smog which was terrible. Even now, I would not be able to deal with it, despite the improvements it is still bad. This area is great for me for now. Since Costa Rica does not appear to be in the cards,.....I'll accept any warming I can get!

 

JC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gtlevine

I have lived in San Diego since 1972. I have not noticed any change in temperature, storms, droughts, etc..... Its just weather. The minute we start planting coconuts thinking we could grow one, bam! Its a 2007 freeze again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ben in Norcal

I don't even really get the whole coconut thing.  There are so many super cool things you CAN grow in SoCal that I would rather have than a coconut.  I guess it's a matter of always wanting what we cannot have?

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Danilopez89

I don't even really get the whole coconut thing.  There are so many super cool things you CAN grow in SoCal that I would rather have than a coconut.  I guess it's a matter of always wanting what we cannot have?

Yo don't "get the whole coconut thing" that's what's wrong with you...:mrlooney:

I'd rather grow coconuts because they are awesome. :bemused:

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JEFF IN MODESTO

Whew.... If climate change has already happened... then worrying about it would just be silly, since nothing has any noticeable change....The older I get , it does seem like records are broken... but that is the nature of time. ( 2007 wasn't even bad here, 1990 was a killer )

( I know people claim to compare satellite photos over the last 2000 years :P and claim to found ice caps shrinking is the cause of all of Ca floods last 114.47 years)  but if that is it then there goes my whole " coconut groves in Socal idea."

Ben, I agree the politics need not discussed. Certain groups of people cant get the scientific facts in order, get angry, then it would just be an argument. For the record, I've seen the documentaries and read a lot about it.....I think the code word "Y2K " says it all. I just hope no one is bulldozing condos in santa monica, getting ready for the coconut groves ! lol.

I've heard USDA plant hardiness zones quoted a lot on this board.

.... the USDA zones are based on the " average winter lowest temp of the winter ". For example, Here at my house for the 2014-2015 winter season the only sub freezing mornings were in Jan. I had two mornings of 29f and one of 30f. My lowest temp of the winter was 29f ( by itself a usda z 9b) but some years I see 25f, 27f, 33f, 28f, as the lowest day of the year.... it don't matter how many freezing morning lows, it is the lowest of the year that counts then average them over a period of time that is what decides your zone.

 

My average lowest temp of the year is around 26f-27f at my house .... zone 9 b.

Without looking at the charts directly, I'd say that where 90-95% of the population lives in all of California, we are a zone 9a to 10b. yet look at how diverse plantings are. A degree or two can make a big difference...

Hence this discussion.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trioderob

nothing is more cool than a fruiting coconut in Cali

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Danilopez89

nothing is more cool than a fruiting coconut in Cali

IMG_20150604_36399.thumb.jpg.051e28a3c2dIMG_20150604_8382.thumb.jpg.169a8ea3c6e3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DoomsDave

Come to the PSSC  meeting in November, 2015 and see a nice coconut, at least getting close to "nutty" size.

IMG_20150605_5299.thumb.jpg.484134ca921a

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Danilopez89

could bring it in from extreme southern Texas on a flat bed - no ?

 

that would cut the trip in half and i don't think they get all the nasty bugs like Florida has.

 

cheaper than Hawaii even

 

not saying this is easy or cheap - just may be the ONLY way to ever do it -if it can be done.

Or you can buy some cheap land by the Salton Sea and field grow them like they do with Phoenix sp. palms...

IMG_20151101_46956.thumb.jpg.c70a0b0e091IMG_20151102_35708.thumb.jpg.0f2113f38b2IMG_20151102_48296.thumb.jpg.c3ffef2e805

 

 

"BUY BUY BUY"!:D Triodrob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paranormal

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...