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trioderob

transplanting a large adult fruiting coconut palm to California ?

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KennyRE317

All I know is I got a trunking Bizzie today - yeaaa haaa

4 years from 3 foot to trunking aint bad for this area

sorry to derail my own thread............................ :bemused:

I don't believe you. I'm calling you out on this one. If it was really 3 feet tall, and you planted it 4 years ago, there's no way you have a trunking (clear trunk) Bizzie unless you ripped the shit out of those leaf bases and it's a measley 8" in diameter. Post a pic.

I have a bizzie that should be about 6' in a bucket and I don't think mine's close to trunking

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Cedric

I was thinking the same thing Keith. The climate is similar to Central Florida, although the wet months are much wetter and the dry months somewhat drier there. Also, the extreme cold that Central FL has periodically experienced does not affect Hong Kong to the same degree. The lowest temperature on record there is 32F, which (as a quick overnight low) would not kill a Coconut. Also, Cocos are some of the most hurricane/typhoon tolerant arborescent plants (technically not a tree) out there. If any such plant would by suitable to a warm tropical cyclone prone area, a Cocos is it.

Looking at Hong Kong average temps, I would expect Cocos to fair about the same as in Bermuda, as long as the plants were irrigated during the driest months. I would expect that few would set fruit.

Cocos are some of the most hurricane/typhoon tolerant plants out there? I would also think so but I'm questioning this wisdom. It's interesting because where we are and in some other areas close by typhoons are a regular thing, but where coconuts thrive in SEA south East Asia they don't get hurricanes or typhoons at all, just the odd tsunami which nothing can stand against. I'm not sure where in the world coconuts do thrive that are relentlessly assaulted by typhoons and hurricanes? We get on average three to four typhoons a year.

I'm thinking coconuts are certainly tropical coastal salty wind tolerant and tend to lean gracefully in the sand to accommodate this but against typhoons and hurricanes they are flattened "level with the grevel" as they say.

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palmsOrl

Cocos thrive in the Caribbean, the South Pacific and the Philippines. These three areas (just to name a few) are full of Cocos and are quite tropical cyclone prone. Coconut palms are renowned for their resistance to high winds, as trees go (yes, not a true tree). Granted, a strong enough tropical cyclone can take down any tree or plant.

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Cedric

Good point both the Philippines and the Caribbean certainly get seasonal onslaughts of hurricanes and typhoons and coconuts thrive there, maybe it's the sandy beach soil, they just get shifted around as opposed to decapitated, toppled or hurled through the sky. We get most of our typhoons second hand from the Philippines, Utor just spread its wild arms grabbing us in its path yesterday.

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Xenon

Cedric, do you have any pics of coconuts in Hong Kong? I always wondered why coconuts were so rare in Hong Kong...they seem to be pretty common on the beaches in Shenzhen.

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JEFF IN MODESTO

If my memory serves me, Hong Kong stats for winter air temp, 59f high 50f low for a mean air temp of 54.5f, which may well be the average winter soil temp as well... far below the bare basic of tropical soil temp of 64f and a bare min of 58f-60f that is needed to keep cocos from going dormant and the roots rot.

Close to Socal in averages.

Jeff

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Tropicdoc

Do yall think coconuts rot with 60F soil but no water? Just wondering. I have potted coconuts and was going to put them in a greenhouse set to a minimum low around 55F. I assume the soil in the pots will follow the temp curve of the air.

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Xerarch

I looked up weather stats for Hong Kong recently, being just within the tropics, I was surprised to see how cool it is in the winter, January highs average only about 65 according to what I read (Wikipedia). Granted it doesn't get very cold there, but with the highs being so low, it's easy to see why Cocos wouldn't thrive. On the other hand, summer precip is astounding, 94 inches in a year and almost all of it in the summer. you really must get pounded by those cyclones.

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Xenon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_kong#Geography_and_climate

Winters average about 61-62F (66/58). Still zone 11 with 6 months averaging lows above 74F though. Here are some coconuts on the beach immediately north of Hong Kong on the mainland: http://goo.gl/maps/5l6M3, http://goo.gl/maps/NMYT3, http://goo.gl/maps/p3ywW, http://goo.gl/maps/REJfX.

Edited by Xenon

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palmsOrl

I think it is astounding that in a climate with 94" of rain a year, it is too dry in the dry season to keep Cocos alive (disregarding the temp factor). I guess this is the extreme nature of strongly monsoonal climates.

Here in Orlando, we barely average 50" of rain annually, and established Cocos get enough rainwater here to survive (again, not including the temp factor). Though we are quite dry in the winter, precipitation isn't usually absent entirely in the dry season.

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mwardlow

Walked by the Newport Beach coconut today and took a picture. Not as Bo mentioned " visually pleasing".

post-3191-0-40111800-1377376034_thumb.jp

post-3191-0-92047200-1377376048_thumb.jp

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_Keith

90 replies on this thread. Got to be something in the water.

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Zeeth

Walked by the Newport Beach coconut today and took a picture. Not as Bo mentioned " visually pleasing".

That looks awful!

That's the worst picture I've seen of it.

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Xerarch

Walked by the Newport Beach coconut today and took a picture. Not as Bo mentioned " visually pleasing".

Wow we're getting toward the end of summer here, I thought it might be a little bit better looking than that right now. I've seen other photos where it looks a little better than that anyway.

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Hammer

Looks like someone gave it a washie style haircut. I've always been an optimist about this palm. But with so few leaves left, I have to wonder if it is facing a serious up hill battle this winter.

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LJG

Walked by the Newport Beach coconut today and took a picture. Not as Bo mentioned " visually pleasing".

What a specimen. Rob, take this photo to the Zoo meeting to show how magnificent this plant can look here. Maybe they they will box a few in.

  • Upvote 1

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Gonzer

5 to 1 it won't be around to celebrate it's birthday next year.

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Gtlevine

It never really looked that good, but now it's a cockroach! I believe it will finally be dead by next spring, along with all this So Cal Coconut talk. I do give it credit for living as long as it did, I predicted its demise years ago. Gary

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paulgila

it looks bad because its getting ready for a growth "explosion."

or maybe its an "implosion."

:sick:

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_Keith

it looks bad because its getting ready for a growth "explosion."

or maybe its an "implosion."

:sick:

If that picture was taken on August 23rd, it had better start exploding yesterday.

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Gtlevine

We should start a betting pool on how much longer before its dead?

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empireo22

I hope it makes it. The summer must have been cool this year in Newport? Is that a Brahea armata flowering in the background of the pic?

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trioderob

does it get proper water ?

does it get any ferts ?

does it get micros ?

does it get mulch ?

is it a known fact that a large healthy fruiting coco given proper care would fade away ?

at the start of the thread I asked if you guys were or knew of a nurseryman who has properly attempted this transplant.

still thinking about asking the zoo to try it.

sure it sounds nuts - so do alot of things.

for example if i told you that there is a pass that gets you into the zoo for a year and it costs less than one admission - would you think i was crazy ?

what if I told you that the zoo does not advertise this pass more than the law forces them to - true or falsehood ?

Edited by trioderob

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Gtlevine

Its not about what it gets, but what it does not get...HEAT!

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palmsOrl

Walked by the Newport Beach coconut today and took a picture. Not as Bo mentioned " visually pleasing".

That looks awful!

That's the worst picture I've seen of it.

I was thinking the same thing Zeeth! If I lived nearby, I would honestly head over with some water and fertilizer every few months. It is mostly a temperature issue, I'm sure, but being in a desert climate and soil w/ virtually no nutrients no doubt contributes too. I do think, however, that it is too late now to turn things around. That poor palm looks to have entered a slow death spiral, with the pencil pointing trunk and barely any leaves. I think it has a few years left, but only a few. Kind of sad considering it has been there for 30 years. I would still try to help it if I could.

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pogobob

So sad, makes me want to dig it up, steal one of those monster boats from across the street, and haul ass across the pacific, and transplant the miserable wretch in Bo's garden. He can grow any palm better than anyone, and we will never hear the end of it!

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Hammer

I'm free until around 5pm on Saturday. I'll bring a shovel. What time are we meeting?

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Gonzer

5 to 1 it won't be around to celebrate it's birthday next year.

We should start a betting pool on how much longer before its dead?

Gary, read the spread!

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Cedric

I think it is astounding that in a climate with 94" of rain a year, it is too dry in the dry season to keep Cocos alive (disregarding the temp factor). I guess this is the extreme nature of strongly monsoonal climates.

Here in Orlando, we barely average 50" of rain annually, and established Cocos get enough rainwater here to survive (again, not including the temp factor). Though we are quite dry in the winter, precipitation isn't usually absent entirely in the dry season.

Yes absolutely. We can have a week of solid down pour followed immediately by a week of fire danger warning anytime of the year but winters generaly are bone dry.

In winter the mountain streams mostly all dry up of running water I use one or two for irrigation of the garden as we are in the middle of the forest up a hill overlooking the south China Sea. Winter though is absolutely fabulous, it's like the tropics without the heat and reminds me very much of parts of India I've visited. Tiger country semi deciduous subtropical forest, nice deep dry leaf litter, king cobra that sort of thing. We had tigers too not so long ago, the British were responsible for the shooting of HK's last tiger poor thing must have been rather miserable being the last tiger.

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Cedric

Xenon, on 16 Aug 2013 - 12:24, said:

Cedric, do you have any pics of coconuts in Hong Kong? I always wondered why coconuts were so rare in Hong Kong...they seem to be pretty common on the beaches in Shenzhen.

Oh no no no no Hong Kongs coconuts don't look like the one at Newport Beach that's one very sad palm. I dont think there should be talk of importing mature trees but of saving this poor thing it's pencil top hell, it needs a cold frame or better and a zimmer frame.

Ours get full heavy shaggy crowns and fat sturdy trunks. The only problem seems to be the leaflets get brownish tips in winter making them look a bit thatchy. I've yet to see a very tall specimen but this could be because of the type planted they tend to be short fat and curving nicely.

Xenon I will ask my better half to take a shot tomorrow with the Samsung (rather spiffing camera lense on that) theres one growing outside a block of flats in Choi Hung where I pass every morning. I can't take a picture myself without it being blurred for some reason.

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Cedric

P Hess I've never seen coconuts in Shenzhen are they any good? Actually I've never been to a beach in Shenzhen either didn't know they had any, they do excellent massages though it's worth the day trip.

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Cedric

Xenon, on 16 Aug 2013 - 23:56, said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_kong#Geography_and_climate

Winters average about 61-62F (66/58). Still zone 11 with 6 months averaging lows above 74F though. Here are some coconuts on the beach immediately north of Hong Kong on the mainland: http://goo.gl/maps/5l6M3, http://goo.gl/maps/NMYT3, http://goo.gl/maps/p3ywW, http://goo.gl/maps/REJfX.

No not coconuts those look like scrawny Roystonias far as I can tell.

Take that back some do look a bit like coconuts hmmmm maybe the warm sea helps some kind of current?

Edited by Cedric

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_Keith

It would never fruit again, and die a slow agonizing painful to look at death. Just about the same as a Sequoia would in Miami.

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Cedric

Like Clematis, Delphinium, Veronica spicata 'Glory', Mecanopsis 'India ink' Crocus, Calamagrostis acutiflora 'Karl Foerster" in Hong Kong, even Californian poppies there's always something you want but just can't grow and that applies to everyone everywhere.

HK is nothing like Southern California, winter or summer and Hanain island is truly tropical even though its a mere 40minutes flight or something so it's "strain" of coconut wont do.

Problem is where ever they do grow only marginaly like here in HK they get a good long humid wet summer and a dryish not very long or cold winter, our true winter is realy only January one month and it never dips bellow 10-15 and only at midnight for longer than a couple of days in the middle of mostly 15-23%c.

Having said that micro climates are the thing, were I am is generaly 2-5 degress cooler than sea level which is a blessing in the tropical summers we have now that go on until early November more or less.

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Walt

The Newport Beach coconut is testament to the difference and variance of USDA hardiness zones, specifically California vs. Florida.

At my location in deep (about as deep inland you can go in pennisula Florida, as I'm equal distance from the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico) south central Florida, my lowest wintertime temperatures are lower than that of Newport Beach, but my daytime high temperatures and overall average temperatures are far higher. That includes soil temperatures, too.

I'm guessing Newport Beach is either zone 10b or 11, while my zone is a low 9b. Further, in December of 2010 I experienced my all-time low temperature of 20.8 degrees in the open yard.

Last winter my low was 32 degrees. This was only the second zone 10a winter I've experienced in the 16 years living here.

In any event, my coconut would have been killed years ago had I not protected it. When it was smaller I could totally wrap it and use heating cables under the wraps. But a few years ago it finally got to big in girth and overall height to safely try to wrap it. That's when I just protected the trunk and meristem by using heating cables spirally wrapped around the trunk and up past the meristem. Then I would use mover's blankets for insulation of the trunk and meristem.

My small palm put out four spaths this summer. One opened about a week ago. This is the first time in at least three years it has flowered. It only flowered once before and produced small, immature nuts. I don't know what variety of coconut palm I have, but I know it's slow growing compared to others I see. Of course, I guess that's a good thing as I can better wrap the trunk during the winter. The trunk is just under 4'-6".

No doubt you guys in So. Cal. are much more challenged to grow a coconut palm than I, notwithstanding your higher USDA zone than mine. If I lived in So. Cal. and wanted to grow a coconut palm in the ground I would try to devise a way to apply supplemental heat to the trunk, meristem, and possibly the soil during the winter months.

Cocosnucifera_zps408209c4.jpg

Cocosnuciferainflorescence_zps3b6c2f57.j

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Tropicdoc

Walt, you are only driving my obsession to pull off a coconut in 9a! That thing is incredible.

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Walt

Walt, you are only driving my obsession to pull off a coconut in 9a! That thing is incredible.

If you've followed any of my posts over the years concerning my coconut palm, then you know it's been fried (almost totally defoliated) many winters. There's no way I can practically protect the fronds. In addition to wrapping the trunk and meristem with heating cables and mover's blankets, I also train a 30K BTU forced air propane heater on it, directing the heated air flow up towards the fronds, hoping this will help some in keeping frost from forming. But if I get a very hard freeze the propane heater isn't enough, although the heating cable and insulation keeps the trunk and meristem protected.

I got lucky this past winter as the only damage my coconut palm got was potassium deficiency on the four lower most fronds. I cut at least two fronds off since they totally died. When my coconut is completely defoliated it will only regrow about a half of a full crown by the end of the growing season. But a coconut palm with only a half crown, IMO, is better than no coconut palm.

I think trying to grow a coconut palm at your location would be much harder than at minekk although it probably could be done. I would try growing a royal palm or picabeen palm, since they are hardier.

th_Cocosnucifera_zps6a6c4397.jpg

Above: Click on image above to start video

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Tropicdoc

Didn't know about the propane heater! I looked at climate data... On average our lows and highs are about 5 degrees lower than yours through the winter. I have some king palms that I will do some creative heating on. I am going to grow my coconuts in pots/ greenhouse until they are too big. They are cheap palms.... Kind of disposable. They are nice to look at even at juvenile stage, though. Best of luck to your cocos!

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