Palm Opinion

[Fouquieria]

OK, so I planted my first palm, a Bismarckia less than two months ago.  It's small but seems to be doing fine and is sending up a new spear.  About a month ago, I got a Brahea decumbens and it is tiny and apparently will have to spend a goodly amount of time in a pot.

So now I'm looking for another palm.  I like the big, robust look of the Bismarckia.  My yard is mostly xerics, so I like things more blue or grey or silver.  Anyway, I went looking, trying to educate myself.  I found a palm that I think is wonderful looking, but I'm not too sure it will do well in SoCal.  The palm is a Copernicia fallaense.  I read it is from Cuba.  I live on a hillside about 10 miles due east of downtown San Diego.  It never goes below 32 here (never).

Is this particular palm too tropical for my environment?

Thanks.

-Ron-

[Matt in SD]

Ron,

I think Copernicia fallaense would survive for you, but the growth rate is VERY slow.  Jerry Andersen had a nice 5g plant last time I was there so you can at least get one.  I almost bought it but decided not to due to the sharp petiole spines.  But also this is a palm that will probably take 10 years to look like anything more than groundcover.  The same is true with Brahea decumbens.

You should consider a Butia capitata.  They are blue/grey, a nice contrast in form from Bismarkia and produce delicious fruit.  You can also get a large plant (24" box) for under $200.  There are also some Sabal species that have bluish leaves.  Sabal 'riverside' is a pretty impressive palm and is a bait blue/grey.  And then there's Brahea armata of course.

Matt

[Tad]

copernicia prunifera also has a nice blueish color.

[MattyB]

I think that Copernicia baileyana offers a couple more degrees of cold hardiness.  I can't tell the difference from a C. fallense.   No matter what, they are an exercise in patience.  If you like slow, blue-grey, xeri-type stuff, you should give Ravenea xerophilla a try too.  Foxtails can comingle with the desert stuff too.  They have a lot of silver/white on the crownshafts, and you can get them pretty much anywhere in large sizes.  Ron, I think I remember you saying that you live on Dictionary Hill.  For those of you who don't know the area, I believe that this is one of the best inland microclimates.  You get that inland heat but the not the extreme inland lows.  It's sort of like a Sunset Zone 24 with more heat.... or a 23 without the lows.  I like this areas climate.

[Fouquieria]

Thanks guys.  

I don't mind them being small and slow.  I'm just a hop-skip-jump from retirement and the house is paid for, so I won't be moving anytime soon.

I've got to look up these other suggestions now.

-Ron-

[Matt in SD]

Ron,

Matt's suggestion of Ravenea xerophila is a good one.  Another painfully slow palm but very cool and it should do great in your climate.  Hyphaene are also worth looking at.  I have seedling Hyphaene petersiana and thebaica, and a 1g Ravenea xerophila, send me a PM because I don't think I'll ever plant all of these (my garden is kind of the opposite of yours...mucho agua), so you could probably talk me out of one.

Matt

[Fred Zone 10A]

Kevin Weaver of KW Palms in Lake Elsinore has nice-sized Hyphaene coriacea in 5 gallon pots.  They grow very well in his climate during the summer, are set back every winter by his frosts and recover again in the spring.  Since you don't have frosts, you won't have to worry about setbacks.

Kevin also has Copernicia alba and prunifera and a bunch of other species.

I also like Matt's suggestion of Butia capitata (I have three in my garden, all planted from 30" boxes) and silver-green Brahea armata (also three, but planted from 24" boxes).  Other Braheas for a xeriscape are B. aculeata and B. dulcis.

Another recommendation is Nannorrhops ritchiana.  There's one at the Huntington (identified as "N. stockiana") that's silver white.

I'm a very few years from retirement myself, but I like to buy as big a specimen as I can find, since I want to be around to enjoy them as adults.

[paulgila]

i tend to agree with matty b.

b.captitata is a great looking palm & its a fast grower

in our climate.i have 2 that have flowered & set fruit in the first 2 years after being planted & both were in 10 gallon pots.

[BS Man about Palms]

(MattyB @ Jul. 14 2006,15:31)

QUOTE

I think that Copernicia baileyana offers a couple more degrees of cold hardiness.  I can't tell the difference from a C. fallense.   No matter what, they are an exercise in patience.  If you like slow, blue-grey, xeri-type stuff, you should give Ravenea xerophilla a try too.  Foxtails can comingle with the desert stuff too.  They have a lot of silver/white on the crownshafts, and you can get them pretty much anywhere in large sizes.  Ron, I think I remember you saying that you live on Dictionary Hill.  For those of you who don't know the area, I believe that this is one of the best inland microclimates.  You get that inland heat but the not the extreme inland lows.  It's sort of like a Sunset Zone 24 with more heat.... or a 23 without the lows.  I like this areas climate.

Ron,

I hadn't thought about it when I lived there, but I lived at the base of Dictionary hill on La Presa.  In the 6-7 years I lived there, I saw frost on the ground once.  Probably very good for the xeriscape stuff and the palms mentioned.

Maybe a Latania?

Bill

[MattyB]

Not only is Dictionary Hill a hill (duh), but Spring Valley lies below it.  This gives it superior cold drainage.  Gosh I wish I could afford a nice house up there.  It's like a more economical Mt. Helix.  Good view of Downtown and the ocean too.  And if you get that urge for some crack rock you can always run down the hill to La Presa and see some of Bills old friends.   Ron, I'm jealous.

[BS Man about Palms]

(MattyB @ Jul. 15 2006,01:13)

QUOTE

Not only is Dictionary Hill a hill (duh), but Spring Valley lies below it.  This gives it superior cold drainage.  Gosh I wish I could afford a nice house up there.  It's like a more economical Mt. Helix.  Good view of Downtown and the ocean too.  And if you get that urge for some crack rock you can always run down the hill to La Presa and see some of Bills old friends.   Ron, I'm jealous.

Hey!  I resemble that remark!

I only left to buy my home in Oceanside. When I left in 95, I was paying only $550 a month rent for a 3 bedroom house  w/ a 2 1/2 car garage on the biggest lot on the block.

I do have to say that the view, the neighborhood, and climate can all vary wildly all within a quater mile of the top of "the hill"

PS- for those that don't know, "Dictionary Hill", gots its name from some company prior? to the turn of the century giving away tiny lots with the "dictionary option" of their Encyclopedia set when you bought them.

It also currently has the steepest paved roads in San Diego county!

Bill

[Kris]

dear fouquieria,

Your are very wise to start a opnion poll on palms before

you could buy and plant them in your garden. this is the

safest method to start your collection.

But in this discussion, i hear a lot of new varities. we indians

have never heard off Palms such as the copernicia etc.

if members have pictures of these palms kindly share with us.

so even new members like me who are new to palms & cycas

world could enjoy seeing it rather than mere imagining it as a

beautiful palm tree.

Kindly understand our courisity !

One Man One Tree..

Love,

Kris (From S.India_Madras)Avg Temp 94 to 104F Always.

[Fouquieria]

This is what I have to work with for a yard.  Yep, La Presa is right below me.

-Ron-

[MattyB]

Ron, are all those pepper trees on your property?  Ahhh man what a spread!!!  Are you off Helix St.?

[STEVE IN SO CAL]

Ron...Google up a Brahea Clara image. A very distinctive look, and silvery blue. A nursery here in Fallbrook has 24" boxes for $165...a great deal and instant size for cheap.

My Cop Fallaense died winter of 04/05 in all the rain. I don't think they like a cool wet winter...it's not just a frost thing. I do have a Cop Bailyana in an island surrounded by asphalt(in my driveway) that is doing well, though.

[Trópico]

(krisachar @ Jul. 15 2006,02:30)

QUOTE

dear fouquieria,

Your are very wise to start a opnion poll on palms before

you could buy and plant them in your garden. this is the

safest method to start your collection.

But in this discussion, i hear a lot of new varities. we indians

have never heard off Palms such as the copernicia etc.

if members have pictures of these palms kindly share with us.

so even new members like me who are new to palms & cycas

world could enjoy seeing it rather than mere imagining it as a

beautiful palm tree.

Kindly understand our courisity !

One Man One Tree..

Love,

Kris (From S.India_Madras)Avg Temp 94 to 104F Always.

Kris,

Please see the photos of copernicia included here from davesgarden and appreciate the beauty of this magnificent genus.

[Kris]

Dear Tropico,

You have made my day ! i love you Pal.

the link for 'davegarden' to have a first hand view of those

devine creatures was in deed worth my lives existance.

Meaning_ i have never seen such Fan Palms that even over shadowed my faviouriate palms like Bis Mark,Breha Armeta,

Washy Filifera,Sabal River-side,Joey Palms,trachycarpus,

CIDP & Med Fan Palm.

Now a new addition has been included they are Copernicia_

Baileyana & Hospita. Truely Lovely fan palms,which i have not seen in my life.& are these seeds avaliable at rarepalmseeds (RPS).

I love you guys & i certainly suggest Fouquieria to go for it provided these 2 Copernicia Fellows Suits your Climate.

Tropico you are my buddy !

One man one tree..

Love,

Kris (to all my friends).

[DoomsDave]

Ron:

You certainly are perched precariously on the precipice up there.

Copernicias, lovely as they are, are SLOW here.  That said, try a few, looks like you've got a bit of room to spare.

I concur with Fred Zone 10's suggestions, particularly for the braheas.  

If you don't mind spending the dough, maybe get yourself a nice cycad -- Encephalartos horridus?  That's a pretty blue color, too, and would look great near your nice house, if you've got room for it there.

dave

[amazon exotics]

Serenoa repens (silver) has the color your looking for.

[kylecawazafla]

I really like the Hyphanae idea. H. coricaea can be as blue as Bismarkia.

If you are willing to experiment there are some blue Corypha out there (I think some C. utan) that would really look great if they survived. I only know of one person that has Corypha alive in So. Cal though, although I haven't heard of any failures.

Another great desert palm is trithinax... trithinax campestris is a very blue one.

[Neofolis]

Kris, you should pay a visit to Palm & Cycad Society Of Austrailia Website, they have pictures of thousands of species of palms and cycads, as well as useful information on each species.  It is very easy to find what you are looking for, because it is indexed by genera then species.

[Gtlevine]

Brahea Clara is a good suggestion, but my favorite Xerophytic palm is Ravenea Xerophylla which would be perfect for you.

Gary

[Fouquieria]

OK, bullheaded me...I went out and got one at JD Andersen's sale last week.  Boy was that place hard to find.

-Ron-

[Kris]

Dear Neo Folis  

thanks for that nice link to plants site in

austrilia.

thanks to U.

Love,

Kris.

[Al in Kona]

How about Sabal uresana, a very nice drought tolerant palm (once established) and most are quite glaucous blue/gray.

[BS Man about Palms]

(Fouquieria @ Oct. 21 2006,19:43)

QUOTE

OK, bullheaded me...I went out and got one at JD Andersen's sale last week.  Boy was that place hard to find.

-Ron-

Ron-

"Got one" what?    You didn't say what.

Is it a C. Fallense?   I picked up a Cop. Baileyana  from there on Thurs., About the same size.

[Neofolis]

If you don't mind trying slow species, why not try a Jubaea.  More than capable of dealing with the heat and definitely won't be troubled by a frost free climate.  Not many people have sufficient space, but I think one would look nice towering over the hilltop.  In 50 years or so, it could be a nice land mark visible from the ocean.

[Walter John]

Try Dypsis decaryii. It has the colour you may like as well.

Here's a couple around the corner from me. They are good priced palms and grow faster than most if not all of the other species mentioned here.

[BS Man about Palms]

(Neofolis @ Oct. 23 2006,00:24)

QUOTE

If you don't mind trying slow species, why not try a Jubaea.  More than capable of dealing with the heat and definitely won't be troubled by a frost free climate.  Not many people have sufficient space, but I think one would look nice towering over the hilltop.  In 50 years or so, it could be a nice land mark visible from the ocean.

Corey, his house would be a good 25 miles at least from the ocean!  It would have to be a telescope that could spot it!  

[Kris]

Dear Wal  

those triangle's look very healthy and dam

sexy ! like a peacock dancing in cool evening

welcoming the rain & its Mate.

triangle palm is indeed a good choice to try.

Love,

Kris.

[MattyB]

Wal, were those triangles in a fire?  The trunks look burnt to me.