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Palm crazy

Livinstona chinensis

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Palm crazy

Newest palm from indoor box store. This will be the last one for this year going in the ground.

I’m guessing I could get two clumps out of it. Not root bound at all.

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All planted and was very easy since the roots where not that full or deep.
Was able to make, two clumps.

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Same palm clump different angle.

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Second clump.

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Should be hardy to 15F with protection, but the taller leaves will slowly die off in the next few years. New leaves will be much more shorter, wider, stronger than this greenhouse grow one, but with only 3 hours of sunlight I may be dreaming.….below 15F it curtains!

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

The most common mistake people make with the Chinese cabbage palm is to grow it in full sun.

They need plenty of shade to grow well and look good. Besides, the leaves are definitely not hardy to 15F even if the plant itself survives. So you need to grow it under canopy where you live. You will have much better luck and you probably won't loose the original stretched leaves either.

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Phoenikakias

Axel, here are some remarks, since I have a mature, fruiting exemplary: Planting those babies in clumps is not a good idea, because their stem base is gonna be fairly thick and leaves enormous. Yes shade at seedling age is preferable, but this livistona is not very tolerant of to humid (like in UK) and cold weather (leaves catch yellow spotting). I'd say it is in shade so moist sensitive as some tender Chamaerops cultivars.

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Walter John

Here's a pair of lovely chinensis growing a few houses up the road from me. They are in full sun, no canopy, but then again, no freeze either.

post-51-0-99620100-1373280215_thumb.jpg

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Rafael

Mine is in full sun and moist climate.

3 mts of trunk.

It's doing very well and fruiting.

post-3292-0-09877100-1373287235_thumb.jp

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Palm crazy

Have one on the westside of the house and it gets at least 5 hours of full sun. Not a problem here, plus the humidity is higher so it can take more full sun. Overhead canopy is a big plus, b/c of radiation freeze we get in winter, for long periods some times. More sun here the better to fatten up the trunks and produce more sugar for winter. This palm is really good with handling our very wet winters, tolerates lots of wet soil in winter too.

It not long term hardy of me…thats for sure!

Clumping never get over crowded in 8a. Main thing for me is keeping them from being perennials, LOL! Grows three new leaves a year, that’s more than my chameadorea in the ground!

Edited by Palm crazy

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

They grow in full sun but look way better in shade, that was the point I was trying to make. The pictures above reinforce this point. So in a marginal climate it's even more important to grow them in shade because not only do they look better but they're protected.

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Perhaps my point is best illustrated with a photo:

07E10EF4-AE5F-4BA7-93A4-01AF06BC1E5F-299

This is actually a triple, so they do grow fine together. While they grow fine in full sun, in California, full sun l. chinensis don't look so good, they get more yellow. Shade grown l. chinensis produce large droopy lush green leaves with very, very thick and rich crowns.

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Palm crazy

I like the look of that one too Axel, good shade grown one.

But lets all agree that L. chinensis can be grown in Full Sun, Sun to Partial Shade, Light Shade, Partial to Full Shade!

That’s what great about this palm. You’ll never see any that big here in the PNW.

Remember that small one growing in B.C. never looks bigger or smaller and its been around a long time,

I don’t think anyone takes care of it though.

Edited by Palm crazy

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Tampa Scott

I planted a 3gal pot of L.chinensis some years ago that had 5 plants in the pot. Today the tallest of the group has about 12' of clear trunk. The other trunks in the group are 2.5', 1.5' and 2 @ 10".

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sonoranfans

I grew one of these in Arizona in 1/2 day sun. this is probably more sun than you ever get in Washington. I also have a multi in florida, it gets full afternoon sun. I have seen them all over florida, and they do look better, more lush and elongated in shade. In sun they grow more compact and look fine, just not as good as they do in shade.

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Palm crazy

Scott do you have a pic?

Axel and Tom, I would say these two new ones I planted are in mostly shade especially the first clump has dry shade, other wet shade. There is also big holly tree (very messy) over both of them for some protection.

Takes winter wet as long as the soil drains good. I always protect below 25F to keep the leaves from getting damaged.

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Tampa Scott

I will take a picture this afternoon of the clump.

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Zeeth

I grew one of these in Arizona in 1/2 day sun. this is probably more sun than you ever get in Washington. I also have a multi in florida, it gets full afternoon sun. I have seen them all over florida, and they do look better, more lush and elongated in shade. In sun they grow more compact and look fine, just not as good as they do in shade.

Have you seen the Livistonia growing wild in the Indian mound trail on Emerson point? I can't place what species they are...

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sarasota alex

One of the palmtalkers here used to own a nursery here in Sarasota. They sold it a long time ago and it was mostly developed, but until recently there were still a few acres left where some of the palms remained to grow wild, including L. chinensis. There were some nice 40' specimens there.

Also for anyone local - Have you seen the 20'+ Livistona australis planted around the new entrance to the Sarasota Memorial Hospital? About a dozen of them there. Still under construction, so I couldn't get to close. And they are shade grown, so they got burned some. Still nice.

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Howard007

That's a beautiful and healthy looking specimen, Palm crazy. Good luck with it! :)

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Tampa Scott

Here...

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Tampa Scott

My L.australis

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Tampa Scott

I can not take credit for the lean on the australis. The lean was courteous of Hurricane Charlie in 2004. The palm had about 3' of trunk then and I did not bother to straighten it back.

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Palm crazy

That's a beautiful and healthy looking specimen, Palm crazy. Good luck with it! :)

Thanks, Howard, will update once it gets settled in, in a few years. LOL!

  • Upvote 1

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Zeeth

I can not take credit for the lean on the australis. The lean was courteous of Hurricane Charlie in 2004. The palm had about 3' of trunk then and I did not bother to straighten it back.

It's a good thing you didn't! That thing is gorgeous

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Cedric

Thing with L Chinensis is if you grow it in clumps you need trunking specimens of different heights for it to look at all nice. The reason being the trunks grow straight as a pencil. They dont lean out from one another in a nice upwards sweep like australis or rotundifolia might for example instead they crash into each other and if they lean they lean in a dead straight line which looks awkward and top heavy as though hit by a typhoon. So nice in a grove or stepped trunks.

They also make excellent under story palms in deep shade seemingly never trunking but getting broader and broader throwing up towering gigantic leaves with mile long rachi, the leaf tips dont hang either in deep shade leaving a perfectly heart shaped fused palm of leaflets with radiating spoked tips. In this situation growing multiple plants together works well but isn't necessary, to be honest you lose the open extremely attractive geometry of the rachis and leaves of the single plant.

These grow like weeds here in Hong Kong and I love them. They can become very impressive with good moisture, soils and just the littlest help (which they mostly dont get here as they are rather rudely fecund natives), towering shiny robust and majestic trees that indicate tropical oasis springing up through the forest. There is always pooled water where you see them growing realy nicely, a spring or muddy area.

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Phoenikakias

Planting to close two Livistonas in a place with dry summer and cold winter, is not very promoting for their growth speed, cause the compete each other harshly for the precious soil moisture.

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Palm crazy

Planting to close two Livistonas in a place with dry summer and cold winter, is not very promoting for their growth speed, cause the compete each other harshly for the precious soil moisture.

To be honest this is the first time I have grown this palm as a clump, I tried separating them but the roots were to tangled and very tight together that I was left with two clumps, one with two trunks the other with three. Dry season here is only for 3 months of the year, and with irrigation it’s not a problem growing them.

If I was in a warmer climate I won’t plant them that way either.

The one single trunk I had only lived 6 years before dying after three bad winter back to back.

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Planting to close two Livistonas in a place with dry summer and cold winter, is not very promoting for their growth speed, cause the compete each other harshly for the precious soil moisture.

To be honest this is the first time I have grown this palm as a clump, I tried separating them but the roots were to tangled and very tight together that I was left with two clumps, one with two trunks the other with three. Dry season here is only for 3 months of the year, and with irrigation it’s not a problem growing them.

If I was in a warmer climate I won’t plant them that way either.

The one single trunk I had only lived 6 years before dying after three bad winter back to back.

In your climate, I actually think the clumping is a good idea. There will be some root competition, but they're designed to compete. The clump will give you more plant mass and therefore more hardiness, and it will look way better even if you get slow growth. As I've said before, Jim Denz' triple clumper sure looks like a healthy beast here in the Bay area. It's been there for a long time and none of the palms in the clump are showing any signs of decline.

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Phoenikakias

Here is my L chinensis initially grown in shade but already with canopy having reached almost full sun. It has produced a fat trunk base but then it tappered. But at least it has kept the big leaves (only more aerodynamicly shaped-costapalmate) and no sign of yeloowing.

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Phoenikakias

BTW (sorry for the off topic), I have been growing another Livistona from seed and of abiguous origin. It resembles chinensis and is planted in a position where it used to get more sun than the chinensis at same age. Now the however the chinensis gets more sun.. but this particular Livistona seems seems to detaste to hot and sunny more than the chinensis unless it gets tons of water. Could someone please confirm whether it is also a chinensis or not? It has thinner stem, imo longer ligules and may shorter inflorescences (it has bloomed this year for the first time and maybe therefore flowerstalk remained short?).

post-6141-0-31090900-1374578089_thumb.jppost-6141-0-79258200-1374578120_thumb.jppost-6141-0-79686400-1374578147_thumb.jp

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Phoenikakias

More pics

post-6141-0-55448800-1374578253_thumb.jp

post-6141-0-65880000-1374578277_thumb.jp

post-6141-0-92419200-1374578358_thumb.jp

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Phoenikakias

Last photo

post-6141-0-03297700-1374578432_thumb.jp

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sonoranfans

looks like chinensis to me, right down to thorns pointing away from leaves. These chinensis are remarkably adaptive in form, a full sun chinensis tends to be very compact vs the shade grown ones. I have grown these in florida and AZ. there are also plenty of these in public plantings in Fl, in direct sun they are quite a bit more compact with notably smaller leaves and petioles. the florida one hasn't fruited yet, the AZ one never will due to climate. You can grow a very nice chinensis in the Arizona desert IF you don't let it get too much sun, and no western sun.

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

There is actually a bit of variation amongst chinensis. There are two different strains I know of, Livistona chinensis var. subglobosa, which is actually a dwarf but is actually a faster grower in cooler climates than livistona chinensis var chinensis. I am sure there has to be even more variation than these two, but I wasn't able to find any references.

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Phoenikakias

There is actually a bit of variation amongst chinensis. There are two different strains I know of, Livistona chinensis var. subglobosa, which is actually a dwarf but is actually a faster grower in cooler climates than livistona chinensis var chinensis. I am sure there has to be even more variation than these two, but I wasn't able to find any references.

Indeed Axel!!! This particular plant, grows considerably faster and looks better during the cold season here. I would call it the ''Ceroxylon" among my rest Livistona, because no other has such a performance during winter.

Edited by Phoenikakias

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

There is actually a bit of variation amongst chinensis. There are two different strains I know of, Livistona chinensis var. subglobosa, which is actually a dwarf but is actually a faster grower in cooler climates than livistona chinensis var chinensis. I am sure there has to be even more variation than these two, but I wasn't able to find any references.

Indeed Axel!!! This particular plant, grows considerably faster and looks better during the cold season here. I would call it the ''Ceroxylon" among my rest Livistona, because no other has such a performance during winter.

I wonder where I could get my hands on one. The subglobosa comes from Southern Japan and has a much thicker trunk.

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sarasota alex

The significance of the cold hardiness of the Japanese form of Livistona chinensis has been noted by Yoshida et al., 2000. They determined that L. chinensis occurred on the Tsushima Island (34N) during the ice age.

On the other hand Livistona chinensis var. subglobosa is no longer an accepted variety. It was initially described based on a cultivated specimen of Japanese origin that had subglobose fruit (different from the olive-like fruits of the typical L. chinensis). When collections were made from populations in habitat, it turned out that they "exhibit such variation in fruit shape that no reasonable taxonomic distinctions can be made between L. chinensis forma typica and L. chinensis var. subglobosa" (Dowe 2009).

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sonoranfans

thanks for clearing this up, Alex!

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Palm crazy

There is actually a bit of variation amongst chinensis. There are two different strains I know of, Livistona chinensis var. subglobosa, which is actually a dwarf but is actually a faster grower in cooler climates than livistona chinensis var chinensis. I am sure there has to be even more variation than these two, but I wasn't able to find any references.

Indeed Axel!!! This particular plant, grows considerably faster and looks better during the cold season here. I would call it the ''Ceroxylon" among my rest Livistona, because no other has such a performance during winter.

I wonder where I could get my hands on one. The subglobosa comes from Southern Japan and has a much thicker trunk.

The last person I know of that had some subglobosa was Ron in San Clemente, but that was 5 years ago…maybe he still has some or can get some more?

Edited by Palm crazy

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pfancy

This thing gets western exposure and does fine in my yard. Just needs a constant supply of water. Very compact but, pushes a lot of fronds. Pic in this thread 2013 Photo of L. Chinensis Palm In Phoenix, Arizona

Started by ando.wsu, Apr 03 2013 09:23 AM

Edited by pfancy

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sonoranfans

This thing gets western exposure and does fine in my yard. Just needs a constant supply of water. Very compact but, pushes a lot of fronds. Pic in this thread 2013 Photo of L. Chinensis Palm In Phoenix, Arizona

Started by ando.wsu, Apr 03 2013 09:23 AM

My AZ chinensis was a monster given the shade, a much better looking plant, carrying at least a dozen fronds with a crown about 12-14' wide. Big, medium green, semi glossy leaves ~3' wide and long(5'?) petioles. In the shade, the drooping leaflet tips can be 1' long. All my larger water loving palms got (4) 2 gallon drippers(8 gallons/hr) for 6 hours duration twice a week in summer(96 gallons a week per big palm), so I never had a palm lacking for water. L Chinensis is quite adaptable to sun exposure, but it is a far better looking palm in shade, especially in AZ. the sun exposed palm tends to be 2/3rds scale or so, a smallish palm with pale green foliage. Having grown this palm for 6 years from a 15 gallon, I noticed that early on, before I planted the (2) queen palms overhead it was much more compact and pale, even though it was planted on the east side of my house(no western sun). With the shade from the queens, it rapidly explanded and changed color. In my AZ yard, this was the most tropical looking palm I had.... You should see some of the shade grown ones in Louisiana, I recall Kathryn posting a fantastic massive shade grown specimen.

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